HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.apz.20180403
Aspen Planning and Zoning Commission
Regular Meeting
April 3, 2018
Chairperson Skippy Mesirow called the meeting to order at 4:30 PM.
Commissioners in attendance: Teraissa McGovern, Scott Marcoux, Rally Dupps, Ruth Carver, Skippy
Mesirow, Spencer McKnight. Absent: Ryan Walterscheid, Kelly McNicholas Kury, Jimmy Marcus
Staff present:
Jeannine Stickle, Records Manager
Andrea Bryan, Assistant City Attorney
Jennifer Phelan, Deputy Planning Director
Ben Anderson, Planner
COMMISSIONER COMMENTS
Mr. Mesirow welcomed Ms. McGovern to the Planning and Zoning Commission. He wished everyone a
happy Easter or Passover.
STAFF COMMENTS
None
PUBLIC COMMENTS
None
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Ms. Carver moved to approve the minutes from March 6th, 2018. Ms. McGovern seconded. All
approved. Motion carried.
DECLARATION OF CONFLICT OF INTEREST
None.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
465/557 Mill Street Rezoning.
Ms. Phelan stated the need to continue the 465/557 North Mill Street Rezoning – Public Hearing – to the
May 15th meeting.
Mr. Mesirow motioned to continue the meeting. Mr. McKnight seconded. All in favor. Motion carried.
405 Castle Creek Road, Ambulance Barn.
Mr. Mesirow asked for disclosure of conflicts of interest. There were none. He asked if public notice
was given. Ms. Bryan stated that it had been.
Mr. Anderson, Planner with the City of Aspen, introduced himself and the Ambulance Barn project. Mr.
Anderson explained that this project qualifies as major public project review. By a new law, this requires
us to get a decision from council within 60 days within the date of application. APCHA has met and their
recommendation is in the packet. Your role on this project as the P&Z Commission is project review and
to make a recommendation to the City Council. City Council is seeing this on the first reading. The
public hearing will be on April 30th. This is an expedited process.
Mr. Mesirow asked if Mr. Anderson knew more details of the litigation history on this new law.
Mr. Anderson stated that he was not sure.
Mr. Mesirow stated that he could see how this could be seen as an attempt to push something through,
which it’s not.
Mr. Anderson stated that this lot has a bus stop on it. The property is owned by the Aspen Valley
Hospital district and is part of the master plan for the Aspen Valley Hospital. He described the location
of the lot as being located at Castle Creek Road at Doolittle Drive. The bus comes in to this lot at the
hospital loop road.
There are two parts to this project. The first is the redesign of the parking area and circulation to
accommodate parking spaces being lost and improve features. The second is the new ambulance facility
itself.
The lot itself is 2.8 acres. Currently the only square footage is the Health and Human Services building.
It is currently zoned as a Public Use Zone district. The dimensions are required to be set by a Planned
Development Approval, and that’s something that commissioners are making a recommendation on this
evening.
Mr. Anderson stated that there were two primary staff concerns when city staff met with the County on
this project. The first concern was the height of the building. The second concern was parking access
and circulation.
The height from finished grade is at 32 feet. Staff had a lot of discussion with the County about reducing
mass and scale. This lot is near to residential use buildings, the Health and Human Services building, the
hospital across the street. Staff’s concern is that the highest part of the building is on this unarticulated,
flat façade facing hospital loop road. It does seem to be a fairly significant mass. In most other design
scenarios in Aspen, that’s something that we tend to discourage. Staff has landed on a recommended
height of 28 feet.
Regarding parking access and circulation, there were initial concerns from staff. For this project, we
used a five-year-old TIA, which we typically don’t accept. As we started to look at the design, staff had
concerns about fire access. The design had some parking spaces being eliminated, and being added
back in different places. Staff had concerns about pedestrian access and safety. Fire hydrant location is
a concern. The location of the waste facility was not defined. There are not a lot of details about bicycle
parking. Staff concerns were addressed by the applicant this morning to staff’s satisfaction.
Regarding growth management, typically employee housing mitigation is based on square footage. Due
to the large amount of unoccupied space in the plan used for vehicles and storage space, APCHA
recommended waving the growth management mitigation. They recommended a five year and ten-year
audit to determine growth. There is some concern about housing mitigation should the facility change
hands down the line, should the facility have another use. Moving forward, staff is working on a
mechanism for such a situation.
Commissioners will be making their recommendation to City Council regarding this project, which can
include specific clauses. Such as: P&Z recommends this project as long as the 28-foot height
requirement is met.
Mr. Anderson concluded his presentation.
Mr. Mesirow stated that this is the time for the Commissioners to ask questions.
Ms. Carver asked how a big truck gets to the waste to empty the trash.
Mr. Anderson stated that the initial proposal had this at 16 feet wide. But there was concern from the
fire department about fire access. The access will be widened to 20 feet per fire truck
recommendations.
Ms. Carver asked how the truck turns around if it’s backing up.
From the public seating, Kevin Heath answered. He introduced himself as being from Studio B and
stated that it’s a front-load truck and dumpster. There’s no backing up.
Ms. Mesirow asked for an explanation of the phasing for this project, within the context of all the other
development going on with the hospital.
Mr. Anderson answered that the hospital project has been approved as a standalone development. The
applicant can talk more about that. The Aspen Valley Hospital project was a long term set of approvals
and phases to get to the project.
Mr. Mesirow asked about the current number for mitigation for employee housing.
Mr. Anderson replied that the structure is roughly 13,000 square feet. If it were purely office space,
which it’s not, it’s 5.1 FTE per thousand square feet. That would be roughly 60. Since this is not a pure
office use, the ability to do an audit of current employees seems to be more reasonable.
Mr. Mesirow stated that we’ve changed way you could mitigate for employees over time. How are we
expecting this facility to mitigate for those at year five and year ten?
Mr. Anderson stated that this is similar to the City of Aspen project. Pitkin County spends a lot of money
on housing employees. Those projects build credits. If this facility were to add three employees at year
five, APCHA would do an analysis.
Ms. Carver asked if the parking lot has the same number of spaces as the original parking lot had.
Mr. Anderson stated that the requirement is 57 spaces. Fourteen spaces are being lost. The plans for
this are in flux, but we will end up with roughly the same number.
The applicants presented their portion of the hearing. Jon Peacock, County Manager for Pitkin County,
introduced himself. He stated that as an essential public service, this project goes through as slightly
different review process. He gave background on the public process they have gone through with the
project. This process included engaging the local community to learn their concerns. We brought
multiple design concepts back to the community and asked them to prioritize which ones they thought
best addressed their concerns. We revised the designs again based on that, then brought them back
again to talk about why we think we’ve met the community’s needs. This is an essential community
service. We don’t benefit personally by doing this. We believe it’s at the right place and design to meet
the community’s needs.
Mr. Peacock explained that the ambulance district is a dependent special district with the County
Commissioners as the board and a border that’s different from the County border. The County will be
sponsor and owner on this project, which is paid for by funds set aside specially for the project.
Mr. Peacock introduced Rich Englehart and Gabe Meuthing, who will be taking the lead on the
presentation.
Mr. Englehart introduced Daniel Gartner, Architect of Record for the project. Mr. Englehart gave some
background on the need for the project. The current ambulance barn is undersized for modern
ambulances. The living space and sleeping quarters are inadequate. Properly securing medications is a
challenge. The current building is in poor condition and not all vehicles can be stored there. In 2014,
the voters approved a ballot initiative to replace or remodel the existing facility, which passed with 62%.
After a study, it was determined that the best option was to expand at the current location. There was
also a possibility of combining services with the fire district, but after careful consideration, it didn’t
make sense at that time.
Gabe Meuthing introduced himself as the Director of the Ambulance District. Mr. Meuthing explained
that his goal regarding location is to be able to get an ambulance as close as possible to you when you
have an emergency. To do that, the Ambulance District puts the ambulances in the center of their
District, which is the current location. Additionally, the District provides an ALS level of service, with
paramedics aboard ambulances. The way we keep up that level of service is to have a good partnership
with the hospital. This is also important in terms of efficiency. Every time we pick up a patient, it ends
at the hospital. Coming back to one location gives ability to restock them quickly. The ambulance has to
be cleaned out after every call. If we get another call quickly, can abandon the ambulance at the
hospital and grab a different ambulance.
Mr. Englehart explained that they went to two different meetings with the Twin Ridge and Meadowood
HOAs. We went in without any design and took input. The HOA representatives were concerned about
HVAC noise issues adding to what’s going on at the hospital now. They were also concerned about
future growth and plans for phasing. Since then, they have done many more public presentations. The
reason for this design is based on the neighborhood input.
Daniel Gartner, Chamberlain Architects, introduced himself. He stated that the starting point for the
design were the comments the county had received from the community in the summer. Noise, rooftop
units, light, and visibility were the parameters for the design. I worked with Gabe and his staff to look at
what functional requirements the building had. I came up with four different design options and
presented all of those at a meeting that was open to the public in October 2017. Over 50 people
showed up to give feedback. What we’re presenting is the most voted for option.
Mr. Gartner pointed out that the canopy over the front door is the sort of marker for the entrance to the
facility. It is a fairly flat front façade. It’s important that nothing get hit by the ambulances as they are
down at the ground-floor level. On the ground-floor level, there are six ambulance bays, four for
ambulances, two for first responder vehicles. When you enter the main entrance, there are restrooms,
stairs, and an elevator to take you upstairs to where the offices are. There is a training room to be used
by ambulance personnel and can be used by HHS personnel as well.
There is a ready room in the back. The medical supplies can be kept back in there. There is a
decontamination and a fitness room.
On the second floor, there is a waiting area. There are offices, a conference room, and a communal
library work station. The mechanical room is buried here, not on the roof. There are support spaces.
The main living space has a balcony facing out back towards the HHS building. Buried up against the
hillside are the living and sleeping quarters.
The top of the HHS building includes pieces that are 45 feet. The highest point of the hospital, more or
less, is 50 feet above the main floor level. At the main entry, this height is at about 30.5 feet. There are
things that lead up to that height at the hospital. With all of that context, here’s our building. This is
actually the elevator overrun requirement at 30 foot 6. We have very little chance of getting less than
that. The building needs an elevator by code. Because the mechanical units are inside the building,
need to supply duct work and exhaust to those units. I don’t see a good way to reduce the roof height
and get duct work to fit.
All in all, the ground floor height is 16 feet with a 16-foot roof. It stands at 10 foot 5 above second floor.
The ambulance facility is at 42 foot, still less than the HHS building including the piping.
Regarding the parking lot, I was very happy to have the meeting this morning with Planning and
Engineering. We talked about ways to make the parking lot work better for everyone. We talked about
adding a pedestrian walkway between the existing islands and shifting rows of parking down. We
eliminated eleven spaces that were for compact cars only and turned them into 4 parallel parking
spaces. We will lose seven parking spaces but will end up with a couple more than we currently have.
We will increase the pedestrian accessibility which will allow people to walk to either of the two county
facilities.
Regarding the trash and recycling, we provided this information to Ben just today. There is a little bit of
storage for both the HHS building and the ambulance building including dumpsters and compost. There
will be a manned gate to be able to get into recycling area. This seemed to largely address the concerns
that had been addressed to us about trash and recycling.
Mr. Mesirow asked if the Commissioners had any questions.
Mr. Marcoux asked how tall the trees will be once they’re fully matured.
Mr. Gartner answered that that would vary by type. The idea is taller trees in the back to obscure the
view of the building from the neighborhood.
Mr. Marcoux commented that, when he pulled up in the gate for the site visit, he thought that a 20 foot
building would look large. Then after an hour, I just got used to it. I’m wondering how landscaping
would take away from the visuals. I don’t want to lower the ceiling and have first responders feel
uncomfortable inside. I don’t know how you’re going to get five feet lower.
Mr. Gartner replied that it will be tough. 28 foot on the plat, that was the height established in 1990.
The HHS building is significantly taller than that. The height may have been met by the midpoint of the
slope of the roof. It is all sort of relative to the context.
Ms. Carver asked how many feet they are taking out of the parking lot to put in that sidewalk. I don’t
know what the use of that parking lot is. Is it employees parking there all day? Why do you need the
sidewalk down the middle?
Mr. Gartner replied that there was a request from the city to try to create as safe zone for pedestrians.
When you’re in a parking lot, you often have to walk in a zone that is unsafe because cars are driving.
It’s safer if you concentrate pedestrians.
Ms. Carver replied that she doesn’t see a need for that. Unless you’re omitting something special about
that parking lot.
Mr Anderson replied that what’s special is that there’s a RFTA drop off.
Ms. Carver responded that the sidewalk’s in the wrong place if they’re looking for pedestrian use. I
think the sidewalk should go a totally different direction.
Mr. Gartner replied that there’s going to be sidewalk all the way across so you can get around the
perimeter.
Ms. Carver asked who’s going to use that sidewalk down the middle of the parking lot.
Ms. Phelan replied that the people who go to and from the RFTA bus stop.
Mr. Mesirow asked how they are defining local community and how they did the outreach.
Mr. Peacock explains that they reached out locally and did open house events in August 2017, Oct 2017,
and January 2018.
Mr. Mesirow asked how they invited people to those.
Mr. Peacock stated that they advertised in both local papers. They did radio spots, and used Facebook
and other social media.
Mr. Mesirow asked if they had direct contact with neighbors.
Mr. Peacock replied that they did. They had direct contact with the HOAs. They did press outreach.
Mr. Mesirow asked to clarify the ballot initiative. Was that just the go ahead? Did it establish a funding
mechanism? Was the question posed to the full county or just residents within the ambulance district?
Mr. Peacock replied that the ballot question addressed the operating deficit and the need for a new
ambulance facility. The funding would be used to support financing.
Mr. Mesirow asked if people within the county but outside the ambulance district voted on it.
Mr. Peacock replied no.
Ms. Carver asked how tall the current ambulances are.
Mr. Meuthing responded that they are ten feet. Occasionally, we add rescue baskets on the top of the
ambulances.
Mr. Gartner added that the design needs four feet on top of that.
Mr. McKnight thanked thank the applicants for their presentation. This all seems like a no-brainer.
What kept coming up was the 33 feet versus the 28 feet. Is the 33 feet versus 30 design, functional, or
both?
Mr. Gartner replied that they are trying to be responsive to the public’s chosen design motif for the
building. We’re trying to be less prominent in the back, more in the front. It is also to accommodate
mechanical equipment.
Mr. Peacock stated that the number one concern of neighbors was noise being generated from the
building and having rooftop units. A lot of the design concern was how do we get that into the building.
Mr. McKnight asked if they had another meeting after the final plan and what the reaction was.
Mr. Englehart stated that they brought the final plan back to the public. The Board approved that. Then
we brought it back to the community. It’s a real success. We listened. We didn’t go in with a real pre-
conceived idea. Any concessions are really going up against the height requirement.
Mr. McKnight stated that, in the Commissioners’ experience, the public is never 100% thumbs up.
Mr. Peacock replied that there are going to be public concerns with every project. At the first meeting,
very few people were excited about this project. As we went through this project and brought back
designs, we mitigated a lot of those concerns. We’re in a community in which you don’t mitigate 100%
of those concerns. The HOA representatives were supportive.
Ms. McGovern stated that the mechanical pieces will be visible from the pedestrian side.
Mr. Gartner asked what Ms. McGovern was referring to as the pedestrian side. He mentioned that the
mechanical pieces will be obscured by a gate.
Ms. McGovern stated that the gate is not on the plans made available to the Commissioners.
Mr. Gartner apologized for that and stated that the plans have continued to develop.
Ms. McGovern asked about resizing the building.
Mr. Gartner responded that there isn’t a need for more floor area.
Mr. Peacock commented that this was the preferred floor plan option at the public meetings.
Mr. Gartner commented that they had an option that had pull through ambulance bays, which Mr.
Meuthing would have really liked. That option was nixed because it would have been a big impact on
the HHS building.
Ms. McGovern asked about the size of the trash enclosure.
Mr. Gartner answered that the total is around 500 square feet. The total height to tallest part of the
roof is ten or eleven feet.
Ms. Carver commented that this was a very nice presentation. It’s definitely needed. I think that the
sidewalk should be along the street.
Mr. Garner said he would be totally game for that.
Mr. Mesirow commented that, to keep everything on track, this is the time for questions. Later is the
time for discussing opinions.
Ms. Carver asked if they can lower the height of the building.
Mr. Gartner commented that the problem is the mechanical equipment. If we do that, I’m concerned
about these ducts.
Mr. Dupps excused himself at 5:51.
Ms. Bryan commented that Mr. Dupps recused himself since his wife works for Studio B.
Mr. Dupps commented that he didn’t know that Studio B was involved in this project until he saw them
in the audience. He left the meeting.
Mr. Mesirow asked about the protocols for ambulances coming in and out of the parking lot.
Mr. Meuthing answered that the sound and lights ambulances use are safety devices. When the
ambulances come to the hospital, they keep the sirens on as long as necessary to get to the ER. The
second problem is leaving the facility. Again we use lights and sirens to provide a safe route for us.
Coming up to a hospital with lights and sirens is not good, so we use them judiciously when coming into
the hospital. Lights are less obtrusive than the sound, so we may move slowly up to the building and use
the lights, maybe not the sound.
Mr. Mesirow clarified that the default setting leaving for a call is light without sirens, but if there are a
lot of people around, the sirens will be on for the safety of the pedestrians.
Mr. Meuthing stated that this was correct.
Mr. Mesirow asked where that setback starts from and how need relates to pulling out.
Mr. Meuthing answered that 25 feet is important to be able to pull the ambulances out of the bays.
Mr. Mesirow asked if the setback is really 30 feet, as it appears in the drawings.
Mr. Gartner stated that there is close to 15 feet between the property line and the building.
Mr. Anderson commented that in terms of setback, they’re talking about the property line. 25 feet or so
away from the loop road.
Mr. Mesirow commented that, in terms of height, the back of the building has 8-foot ceilings. If you
don’t need higher ceilings, 8-foot ceilings are functional for most uses. What is the extra ceiling height
for?
Mr. Gartner commented that the height is related to the top of the elevator shaft at 30.5 feet.
Mr. Mesirow commented that part of this reflects a desire for extra height and light.
Mr. Gartner commented that he guessed that is true.
An applicant who did not introduce himself commented from the public seating that the height
accommodates the structural thickness of the roof, the insulation, and the duct work. The biggest duct
we have is 30 inches tall. 9 inches, 24, plus 30.
Mr. Gartner commented that that is 5.25 feet there.
The man from the public seating commented that the mechanical room is the tightest. Five feet is
needed.
Mr. Gartner commented that the floor has internal roof drains. It has a parapet above to hold the water
in. It’s maybe something like 6 feet from the 8-foot ceiling. 30.5 feet, something like that.
Mr. Mesirow commented that he had a few more questions, but asked if anyone had any additional
questions. I don’t want to monopolize. Do we only have four ambulances?
Mr. Meuthing answered that that is correct. For our volume, four ambulances are about right.
Mr. Mesirow asked if there is an extra bay if we need another ambulance.
Mr. Meuthing said that they did consider the possibility of adding add extra bays. We could
theoretically add a couple of extras if need be. We haven’t changed our volume significantly each year.
Eventually we’ll reach the point where we’re size limited in town. We are building this building for now
and the future. It will meet our needs for quite some time.
Mr. Mesirow asked how many total employees they have when they’re running at peak.
Mr. Meuthing replied that they have a total of eight employees at any given time.
Mr. Mesirow asked how many people ride in the ambulance.
Mr. Meuthing replied that there are two people in the vehicle at each time. We have 32 people on our
roster. Most of them are part time. Because we have such variability in our volume, we keep a pretty
good staff of part time people. For the most part, fourteen FTE is the way we stay.
Mr. Mesirow asked about the adequacy of the trash facility for the extra development.
Mr. Meuthing replied that all of their biohazardous trash goes to the hospital.
Mr. Anderson replied that ultimately, it’s a determination that’s made by environmental health. Liz
Chapman is evaluating. We just received some plans for enclosure. I have not had a chance to get her
response. The final design of this enclosure is to be determined.
Mr. Mesirow asked the commissioners if they had any final questions.
Ms. Carver asked how noisy the mechanicals are. It’s most unusual to vent things out the front.
Mr. Gartner said that they’re not anticipating any unusual noise. Any intake or exhaust will have the
sound of rushing air. That’s a normal mechanical sound. Mechanical units often have additional sounds.
Hoping to enclose those in the building as much as possible.
Mr. Mesirow asked if the plan is to grade these so that the building is into the hill.
Mr. Gartner responded that that is correct. One side of the building is basically a retaining wall.
Mr. Mesirow gave instructions on how the public comment part of the hearing should go.
From the audience, Mike Lions introduced himself as a Twin Ranch HOA member and a fireman and
paramedic with Aspen Fire. I come with a unique perspective and information that is interesting. This is
a unique building in that it’s an ambulance building. Overlooking that Pitkin County is going to be the
owner and operator of this facility, Aspen Valley Hospital runs all this for Pitkin County. It’s a tangled
web that’s hard to unravel. This is the first opportunity I’ve had to voice concerns about this facility.
The reason I say this is that the Aspen Ambulance District has not met since 2014. It’s very hard to come
to a public meeting and the County commented on their public outreach. I went to this dot survey and
we were only allowed to vote for a building. We were not allowed to vote for a non-building. John
Peacock said that this is an essential public service. What they’re not telling you is that the Aspen Fire
Protection District has tried to reach out and they are stonewalling us. I tried to get on the agenda and
heard nothing. I contacted John Peacock and I have heard nothing. There’s a lot of misinformation out
there and lies coming from the County. They want to use the current building for storage. There is also
discussion on the street that they’re going to turn this over to a homeless shelter or a battered women’s
shelter. Right behind the building, there’s a lot of scrub oak. Homeless guys go to the parking lot and
bus station to smoke. They’re going to go right into a wildland area. Homeless people go back there to
make camps and smoke pot. They’re going to light our neighborhood on fire. I suggest to the
commissioners that you deny this application.
Another thing that John Peacock talked about is the need for this building. One of the ways to
determine the need for this building is a heat map. You contact Pitkin County and ask them to give you
information about calls, then go to GIS and put that information on top of a map. The County never
asked for GIS information up until last week. His presentation to our HOA described two zones: city and
county. 33% of calls were in the county and 66% in the city. Two calls were two blocks away.
Mr. Mesirow interjected to say that he needed to direct the comment in the interest of time. Is it fair to
say that this building is not required based on the evidence as you read it?
Mr. Lions replied that yes, that is the case.
Mr. Mesirow thanked Mr. Lions for coming and commenting. Our job on the Planning and Zoning
Commission is to look at code. You should go to the City Council meeting when the applicant presents
there.
Mr. Lions commented that Mr. Anderson had already let him know about the City Council meeting and
he was very grateful for that.
Nancy Hall commented from the public seating and introduced herself as a neighbor living in
Meadowood and member of the Meadowwood Metropolitan Board. I went to the design meetings
where we chose preferences. I think they did a great job of making the right choice. I went to a meeting
with Mr. Lions and some people from the Fire District. At that meeting, I got to hear where they could
absorb this and I’d never heard that before. We didn’t know that there were any options. It’s a great
deal. If there’s a way to save tax payer money, we should do that.
Mr. Mesirow commented that he’d like to hear that side and he is curious about a response from the
applicants about it. But that’s not really our place. I’d love to go to City Council to hear about it.
Mr. Mesirow asked if there were any further public comments. There was no response. He closed
public comments. He asked if the applicants would like to respond. The applicants declined to respond.
Mr. Mesirow commented that the Commissioners didn’t receive any public comments in their packets.
So with that, he turned the meeting over to the commissioner discussion.
Ms. Carver commented that she does not think the sidewalk down the middle of the parking lot will be
used. I would like to see the building less tall. I’ve never heard of sending all the mechanical piping out
the front of the building. I do believe the hillside would keep that quiet. I thought that the fire
department had an ambulance.
Mr. Lions responded that they do not. They do have rescue trucks for cutting cars open.
Ms. Carver commented that it’s a whole different idea to combine the fire department with the
ambulances.
Ms. McGovern commented that from a code perspective, the only issue she has is height.
Mr. Mesirow asked all the Commissioners how they feel about the height recommendation.
Mr. McKnight commented that he would like to see the height come down, too. One thing that I can
appreciate is that they’re putting the mechanics on the inside. It would make sense for it to come down
to the 30.5 foot height. Seeing an effort by the applicant to do that would be sufficient for me. It ends
up being a nicer project but people appreciate that more than bringing it to 28 feet with all the
equipment on top.
Mr. Marcoux commented that any new structure built should include solar. If we can do it, I’m with
everyone. If it’s going to create an atmosphere for first responders, we want to make sure everyone’s
comfortable working there.
Mr. Mesirow commented that if the city’s going to be so demanding about height, to bend the rules for
itself isn’t a good look. I wonder about moving the building more toward the hillside somewhat.
Moving it into the hillside more will reduce the perceived mass and height of the building. Also, it would
be more of a sound insulation. It’s important from a human scale that we’re not creating a cavernous
feel. We would see the green space between the buildings.
Ms. McGovern stated that she didn’t know how much that would reduce the perceived massing. The
10-foot setback wouldn’t really work, pushing it even further into the lot. The location, although quite
in your face, is a very good use of the available space on that lot. Pushing it closer to that is going to not
mitigate sound.
Mr. Mesirow asked if anyone had any other thoughts.
Mr. Marcoux stated that this doesn’t fall under the umbrella of a regular 12-inch build. We can’t really
approach it with connecting it with other areas. We’re trying to avoid a lineup of other construction.
Ms. McGovern commented that they’re not opening the door for other development. We as a
community set a height limit for a reason. As a public facility, we should be the leaders in that. The HHS
building was built at a different time. There is also a difference in the way you measure a sloped roof
versus a flat roof.
Ms. Carver commented that, when you look at the building uphill, it will look taller than it actually is.
Mr. McKnight commented that he would like to see an effort for the 28-foot building. We should make
a recommendation to City Council to approve the plan, but with the caveat that the applicant make an
effort to the 28-foot. If they cannot, they should state their reasons.
Mr. Mesirow commented that he is hearing consensus that the set back is okay, the height should be
the 28-foot limit. Regarding employee housing, I would like to see the city force a mitigation now versus
doing an audit.
Ms. McGovern commented that she does not want to force a mitigation now. I don’t think that’s
appropriate. If at some point the FTEs increase, that is an issue and that should be mitigated.
Mr. Mesirow asked Mr. Anderson if they’re going to do an audit so that current use is mitigated.
Mr. Anderson replied that that is correct. APCHA would make a determination that that audit accurately
reflects what’s transpired.
Mr. Mesirow asked if current FTEs are going to be mitigated for now.
Mr. Anderson replied that there is no net change in terms of employee generation. Because it’s a public
facility, ultimately it’s the County’s decision as to whether the mitigation is waived at this point.
Mr. Mesirow commented that, in terms of the city living up to its own standards, he is uncomfortable
with leaving it this lenient.
Ms. McGovern commented that she is uncomfortable with leaving the mitigation out there.
Mr. Anderson commented that staff has concerns about that. We do think it’s necessary that we have a
mechanism to ensure that the building, whatever it becomes in the future, that the future use is
somehow understood and gets brought into the mitigation process.
Mr. Mesirow asked if it has ever been done before that P&Z make a recommendation to Council that
includes a clause about mitigation for a future change in use of the building. That way, whatever the
actual audited FTEs, they are mitigated for.
Mr. Anderson replied that they could add that language and make it a condition for approval.
Mr. Peacock asked if he could comment to add some clarity.
Mr. Mesirow commented that it’s out of order, but that he does want to hear Mr. Peacock’s comment.
Mr. Peacock commented that this property is really strange. It is owned by the hospital, and the County
has a 50-year lease with the building. He recommended that Mr. Dave Brown speak to the use by the
hospital.
Dave Brown, the CEO of the hospital, introduced himself. He commented that, as Mr. Peacock said, they
do not have any expectation to deploy staff that they already have. We have the opportunity to
relocate staff. The lower bays are perfect place to relocate our equipment. Would not anticipate that
building generating additional staff.
Mr. Mesirow asked if they would be okay being responsible for the mitigation if a change were to
happen in the future.
Mr. Brown replied that they would.
Mr. Peacock commented that, if for some reason if that building were to stay with the county for the
remainder of the lease, the county would be conformable being responsible for the mitigation.
Mr. Mesirow asked if the applicants would be comfortable with adding in specific language to that
effect.
Ms. McGovern commented that she would want to see something based on square footage.
Mr. Brown asked if he may speak to that.
Mr. Mesirow replied that he may, but very quickly.
Mr. Brown commented that he would prefer the mitigation to be around employee generation, not
square footage.
Mr. McKnight replied that he would like that.
Mr. Mesirow replied that he heard Mr. Brown’s request, but prefers Ms. McGovern’s plan. Square
footage provides a cleaner mechanism.
Ms. McGovern commented that, with the trend of open office space, organizations can make it look like
they have three work spaces and then put 16 people in there. I don’t think we have enough oversight to
say, at this point, their actual was this number.
Mr. Anderson commented that the hospital was identified as an essential public employee facility. This
is part of the phase expansion of the hospital. Understanding these issues and thinking about potential
use, I don’t know that we’ve given full thought to how we can best make sure this space gets included in
the hospital’s audit. We would be happy to add additional language. Thinking about coming up with the
best method, I don’t know that we have a full handle on that yet.
Mr. McKnight asked if the commissioners are ready to vote on this.
Mr. Mesirow asked if their vote includes that 60-day period.
Mr. Anderson commented that, from his perspective, the resolution is written. The conditions that are
there give some conditions going forward.
Mr. Mesirow asked if the Commissioners are comfortable with the square footage methodology.
Ms. Carver and Mr. Marcoux both responded that they are.
Mr. McKnight commented that he is not feeling comfortable right now about where to stand and how
that looks regarding employee housing mitigation.
Ms. Carver commented that they also have consensus on the location of the building and the set back.
Mr. McKnight commented that he doesn’t want to vote against this. Can I go on the record to say that I
have some concerns?
Mr. Mesirow commented that he just did, since his comment will be included in the meeting minutes.
Ms. Phelan commented that she can come up with language to say that if there’s a change in the use of
the building, then that will trigger a review of employee housing. We just don’t know what they’re
going to use it for. They’re representing that as storage. We need to work with the building
department.
Mr. McKnight commented that the Planning and Zoning Commission is going to make their
recommendation to City Council, but they’re just going to do what they want.
Mr. Mesirow made a motion to approve, with the conditions of lowering the building height to 28 feet.
In terms of employee housing, they would accept audit based on actual FTEs. The hospital would be
responsible for mitigating on the square footage.
Mr. Anderson asked if the Commissioners are comfortable with staff making the best case for that.
Mr. Mesirow and Ms. McGovern responded that they are.
Mr. McKnight seconded the motion.
Ms. Stickle called roll. All commissioners voted yes. Motion carried.
Mr. Mesirow closed the public hearing portion of the meeting.
OTHER BUSINESS
Mr. Mesirow commented that the last item on the agenda is to appoint the Chair and the Vice Chair.
We appointed chair previously. Mr. Mesirow asked Ms. Stickle to read the names of the current
commissioners.
Ms. Stickle read the names of all current Planning and Zoning Commissioners.
Ms. Carver nominated Mr. McKnight.
Mr. Mesirow commented that he loves that nomination. He nominated Mr. Walterscheid, stating that
he has been the vice chair and he feels it would be unfair to at least not re-nominate him.
Mr. Mesirow called for votes for Mr. McKnight. Ms. Carver, Mr. Mesirow, Mr. Marcoux, and Ms.
McGovern raised their hands.
Mr. Mesirow called for votes for Mr. Walterscheid. Mr. McKnight raised his hand.
Mr. McKnight was appointed Vice Chair.
Mr. Mesirow thanked everyone for attending the meeting. Mr. Mesirow voted to close the meeting.
Ms. Mcgovern seconded at 6:47 PM. All in favor. Motion carried.
Jeannine Stickle, Records Manager