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HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.apz.20081014City of Aspen Planning & Zoning Special Meeting -Minutes October 14, 2008 LJ Erspamer opened the special meeting of the City of Aspen Planning & Zoning Commission in the Allen Room in the Koch Building at the Aspen Meadows. Brian Speck and Jim DeFrancia were excused. Commissioners present were Cliff Weiss, Mike Wampler, Stan Gibbs, Dina Bloom and LJ Erspamer. Staff in attendance were Jim True, Special Counsel; Ben Gagnon, Jason Lasser, Community Development; Jeff Woods, Scott Chism, Parks; Trish Aragon, Engineering; Jackie Lothian, Deputy City Clerk. Main Street Pedestrian Plan Jeff Woods, Parks, introduced Trish Aragon and Scott Chism as part of the team working on Main Street. Woods said that Main Street was approximately 75 feet wide and lined with cottonwood trees. Woods said that they wanted to create a traffic calming improvement for refuge in the middle for pedestrians. Trish Aragon said they were planning on 2 parts for the Main Street corridor and there would be a demonstration in front of Paepcke Park and they will be hiring a consultant. Aragon said that this was an initial introduction to P&Z and there will be public hearings. LJ Erspamer asked if this was separate from the ZG Plan. Ben Gagnon answered they kind of move along on parallel tracks; they have recognized the use of similar materials and the Civic Master Plan calls for this. Cliff asked about the trees providing more of a loss of view for pedestrians in crosswalks. Woods responded that they think that they could solve that with not having trees at the ends and these were just quick ideas. Michael Wampler if this would move ahead even if the ZG Master Plan did not; this would be to calm down Main Street some. Woods replied the goal was to provide some kind of demonstration and they were going to move forward with traffic calming. COMMENTS LJ Erspamer noted that Brian Speck had surgery at Valley View and it was a success. CONTINUED PUBLIC HEARING: ZG MASTER PLAN LJ Erspamer opened the special public hearing on the ZG Master Plan. Ben Gagnon said that they expect the meeting to have the staff go through the revisions of the ZG Master Plan, then move to the commissioner comments and then public comments. Gagnon wanted to give the county staff a chance to present why they feel that they belong on the site. City of Aspen Planning & Zoning Special Meeting -Minutes October 14, 2008 Brian Pettet, County Public Works Director, provided the background for the county's basic needs; they were now working out of about 7 different facilities across the county and recognized that was not an efficient way to do business. Pettet said in 2005 the Board of County Commissioners wanted to know if the county employees wanted to be in Aspen, the County Seat, or just down valley from the snow dumps by the public works and in 2006 the county had some public focus groups. Pettet said that there was pressure to build on the land that they own by public works, which would also alleviate parking and traffic concerns and about 75% of the county employees live down valley from Old Snowmass. Pettet said it was overwhelming that the customers felt the county needed to be downtown and remain in the core. Cindy Houben, County Community Development Director, said there were 3 main points why it was important for the county jurisdiction to remain in the downtown core. 1. Houben stated they felt fortunate that their governance was in the downtown core. 2. Houben said the critical mass associated with having the services downtown. 3. Houben said that 3/4 of the employees do ride the bus from down valley. Houben said that even though the property owned by the county was inside the urban growth boundary; there were appropriate uses within that urban growth boundary. Houben said there was an erosion of a sense of place by moving the government services out of the downtown core. Houben provided the book by Daniel Kemmis titled "Community and Politics of Place". Ben Gagnon said the revisions were on the asset management; replace the roof next year, which doesn't have an impact on the ZG Master Plan; the buildings in the Rio Grande parking lot have been changed and reduced almost in half. Gagnon said that 2 levels under the existing Rio Grande Parking Garage would be attainable; the square footages have been removed from part 2 and now consolidated in part 5 (page 48). Jason Lasser utilized power point showing the green spaces (any kind of grassy area); there was 110,000 feet of green space proposed. Ben Gagnon said that part 4 the planning and mitigation plan was a 12 to 20 year proposal; there was a list of land use reviews for every phase and all come back to P&Z, HPC and some go to CDOT. Gagnon said there will be a traffic generation study that will be very specific. Gagnon said that on page 39 future elections were discussed. Gagnon said this was a guiding document. 2 City of Aspen Planning & Zoning Special Meeting -Minutes October 14, 2008 Gagnon walked through the 3-D plan which is part of the record. Gagnon used existing to the proposed. Gagnon said Galena Street would be a 16 foot roadway with pavers and the Galena Shuttle only would be allowed. Gagnon said that the museum and Library would be 2 stories considerably lower than the courthouse. Gagnon said that the Phase 4 was the County Plaza Building and the Zupancis property with 40,000 square feet including one level subgrade that would account for the public safety vehicles, judges, juries and limited public parking. Cliff Weiss asked how many spaces. Gagnon replied about 80 spaces. Stan Gibbs asked for garage square footages. Gagnon answered the Zupancis was 40,000 square feet; the Rio Grande parking lot was about 20,000 square feet (about 10-12 years down the road). Gagnon said the city hall annex was phase 6 with engineering issues around a garage with ventilation issues. Public Comments: Les Holst, public, described living in Aspen and said that what was being planned is never going to happen. Holst said it all started with Burlingame being one of the most inept things that he has ever seen in his life and said that this was a Burlingame 2. Holst's plan was to move the county seat down valley, the library was okay, the Art Museum could build an annex by the new county seat. Holst said that the focus groups have said to keep Aspen quiet. Colleen Burrows, public, asked if cost was considered. Burrows asked to take each piece and look at them separately and prioritized by need not desire. Burrows said that it was not good for the government to spend money this way. LJ Erspamer noted that Colleen did submit a letter that was in the packet. Erspamer asked if any pieces of art were sold at the museum. Heidi Zuckerman Jacobson replied that they were prohibited from the sale of any works of art. Jacobson said there was a bookstore where books, mugs and tee shirts were sold. Erspamer asked if ACRA became a political advocate group at elections. Erik Klanderud responded no sir; they try to be an educational tool informing the public but they do not take a stand. Erspamer asked how often do people from the county go to the court house or annex building; what offices are not needed in the city. Gagnon replied that the county attorney and clerk and recorder were in the annex building so they would frequent the annex often. Erspamer noted that when the Rio Grande Parking Garage was originally built water was found and asked what were the thoughts on finding water again. Gagnon replied that the water they found was actually below the level of where the garage is now. Erspamer asked if the people who did the traffic study were the same as the people who did the traffic 3 City of Aspen Planning & Zoning Special Meeting -Minutes October 14, 2008 study for the Puppy Smith. Gagnon responded the traffic counts (tubes across the roads) were done by All Traffic Data during the morning and afternoon commutes. Erspamer asked where those tubes were placed. Gagnon answered on Main and Mill; North Mill and Rio Grande Place; Rio Grande Place and the parking garage entrance and Spring and Main. Erspamer asked for a copy of the report. Erspamer asked if there was a study done on pedestrian movement on Main Street from the central core to the courthouse with this development. Gagnon responded that he has never heard of pedestrians being counted. Erspamer asked how you will mitigate the increase in pedestrian traffic across Main Street when it is a nightmare as it is. Gagnon replied that was the pedestrian plan the idea was to have stamped crosswalks, the elephant bulbs and the refuge island or median was all part of the mitigation so that pedestrians feel safer. Cliff Weiss said that he has never seen the reference to focus groups or a survey from the county. Weiss asked why the elevator was coming up into the Art Museum. Gagnon responded the structure was on the edge of the building. Weiss asked how many residents go to county services other than court and sheriff. Gagnon answered that there was no count on people walking in the door of county offices and the city doesn't do it either; there was quite a bit of traffic at the county clerk and recorder. Stan Gibbs asked if RFTA was consulted as part of this in terms of development especially in the county buildings that the transportation patterns might work in the downtown. Gagnon replied it was the information about RFTA bus services given to the traffic engineering company to make sure they understood the services that the city provides and RFTA provides; that kind of specificity may happen down the road but right now the main drop off at Galena and Main. Gibbs said there seems to be a missing piece of the traffic analysis that they haven't been asked if they could change the pattern of traffic on Main with different bus service; what the impact would be. Gibbs said that they should be brought into it more formally. Jason Lasser said that the DRC meeting had comments from parking and transportation. Gibbs asked what the process was for the city property going to the Art Museum. Gagnon replied that there would either need to be a long term lease or sale or lease sale. Weiss asked ACRA if the new location was going to be the optimal place. Erik Klanderud said that based on the meetings that he attended that the Mill and Rio Grande Place would be the optimal location on the ground level about 3,000 square feet where they could run their business operation, public restrooms, 24 hour visitor information. Weiss asked if closer to the Zupancis property on Main Street 4 City of Aspen Planning & Zoning Special Meeting -Minutes October 14, 2008 would be acceptable. Klanderud responded that being closer to the Rio Grande Parking structure was better with easy access to the Visitors Center. Weiss asked if the ACRA was better off at the Mill and Rio Grande Place or on Mill Street on the new Zupancis site because of the parking structure below the new Zupancis building. Gagnon replied most of the new Zupancis parking was taken up by sheriff's office and police department fleet plus judges, juries, DA and security; there was about 15,000 square feet under Zupancis that wasn't even proposed parking but maintenance, police & sheriff storage for forensics; it wasn't intended to be a public garage. Gagnon said the Rio Grande garage expansion was about 35-40%. Lasser noted that access from Main Street to the Zupancis garage was not available. Weiss asked how many parking spaces did ACRA need and what amount of spaces were available now. Klanderud replied that now there were 4 right out front and a 5th that was handicap only. Klanderud said that in the summer early June through September there were days when ACRA sees 450 to 500 people a day walking through the office. Return to Public Comments: Junee Kirk, public, said this was the last 180 degree open space this town has and the way it is planned right now are huge canyons of buildings as opposed to grading gradually up. Kirk said that the buildings surrounding the courthouse should be much smaller maybe one level and open space. Kirk -said that the county was divided and some want to stay out where they are at and it doesn't make sense to have the county offices in town. Kirk urged the Library to expand interiorly in the interior walls before they expand outside. Kirk asked what kind of commitment the Art Museum has to accommodate the existing non-profit organizations that now occupy and use the Youth Center. Kirk said many issues of this master plan should be reconsidered. Andrew Kole, public, said that he was sorry the press left. Kole said that the people that were pushing this agenda were an insane group. Kole said that $48,000.00 was spent on surveys but there were no figure on people using the city or county services. Kole said that transferring the Zupancis property to the county was not going to happen and he said that he probably had a better chance of being elected than that happening. Kole said the affordable housing was key to this community and he thought that Zupancis should be affordable housing not a county office building. Kole stated that the Aspen Art Museum should be allowed to pursue their plan because their current location was not good; by including them in this deal it will never go anywhere. Kole said that technology reduces people and replaces it with not having to drive over there. 5 City of Aspen Planning & Zoning Special Meeting -Minutes October 14, 2008 Gilbert Sanchez, public, stated that he was a principal with Studio B Architects; he gave his history of experience in the community. His letter is included in the file. Sanchez spoke of the Aspen Area Community Plan, Walter Paepcke's vision, the Civic Master Plan and the ZG Master Plan. MOTION: Cliff Weiss moved to extend the meeting until 7:30pm; seconded by Stan Gibbs. All in favor. Sobey Stanford, public, said that she and her husband and children chose to live in this community because of the Aspen Institute, Art Museum and skiing. Stanford wanted support to Aspen and ZG. Marilyn Marks, public, asked if they were building a 1970s building fora 21St century world and not planning for better use of technology. Gagnon replied that they researched this and there was the likelihood that the space needs were in the 8-10% range in terms of reducing the overall project. Marks asked if they had looked at outsourcing functions to reduce the needs. Gagnon answered no they have not looked at outsourcing. Marks asked if there were estimates of costs. Erspamer replied no. Marks said that with no estimate of cost she suggested that there should be some broad range of cost before a lot of time, skill and money is spent; she said it was unrealistic in the foreseeable future given the economy and the push back from the public. Heidi Zuckerman Jacobson, Curator of the Aspen Art Museum, addressed the square footage numbers of $600.00 a square foot and they have an idea of a $20,000,000.00 project and they have pledges for $28,500,000.00. Jacobson said this opportunity to build this building was an opportunity to keep jobs in Aspen. Larry Marks, public, said that he was not related to Marilyn. Larry Marks voiced his support for the Art Museum and expanded museum. Marks spoke of his service on non-profits. Marc Friedberg, member of the board of trustee for the Art Museum, said that there were almost 900 members and that 21,000 people went through the museum this past year. Friedberg said they were not asking the taxpayers for anything and hoped they could work out something with the city. Ellen Closuit, employee of the Art Museum, said that every member of their team was passionate about what they do and support the desire to relocate and expand. 6 City of Aspen Planning & Zoning Special Meeting -Minutes October 14, 2008 Bay Silvie, public, supported the Art Museum and it was a vital part of the Aspen experience and a place for everyone to gather. Phyllis Bronson, public, said the Aspen Area Community Plan said that good design must be in keeping the general character of the town. Bronson said that just because something can self fund doesn't mean that it is right for the community. Bronson said that the local artists that she has spoken to do not feel included in this museum. Bronson recognized the need for expanded city and county office space and supported that because those were issues that should be on public funded lands. Jim True said that there were parts of this that would require a vote. Bill Wiener, public, said that the community development only states the positive and there were negative sides. Wiener said the green buildings that were proposed in the parking lot were in critical space for several reasons; the view into the athletic field, the river and the mountains; the service area for food and wine, the ducky derby, the pancake breakfast, some of the athletic events, jazz aspen. Wiener said that staff ignores his comments. Toni Kronberg, public, said that she wasn't sure what P&Z was looking for tonight. Kronberg said that she did not see the criteria for judging the ZG Master Plan; she distributed Resolution 31 for the Civic Master Plan. Kronberg said that they were taking 3 minutes of public comment for the next 10 to 20 years of construction activity that will encompass 6 city and county pieces of property involving about 8-10 different uses. Kronberg said that after 6 years of sitting on the civic master plan and public comments were not included in it. Kronberg said that the Art Museum was so much farther ahead and should be pulled out of the mix. Cathy Chandler, Library, said that she was in favor of keeping the county offices in town; it makes the community more vibrant. MOTION: Cliff Weiss moved to continue the public hearing on the ZG Master Plan to October 21 S`; seconded by Dina Bloom. All in favor. Adjourned at 7:30pm. ckie Lothian, Deputy City Clerk 7