HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.hpc.20081022ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION
MINUTES OF OCTOBER 22, 2008
334 W. Hallam -fence and landscape ................................................................................ 1
Popcorn Wagon, cont'd public hearing .............................................................................. 5
308 E. Hopkins - La Cocina -roof top .............................................................................. 7
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ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION
MINUTES OF OCTOBER 22, 2008
Chairperson, Michael Hoffman called tlae meeting to order at 8:00 a.m.
Commissioners in attendance: Nora Berko, Jay Maytin, Brian McNellis,
Sarah Broughton and Ann Mullins.
Staff present: Jim True, Special Counsel
Amy Guthrie, Historic Preservation Officer
Kathy Strickland, Chief Deputy City Clerk
MOTION.• Sarah moved to approve the minutes of September 10`h; second
by Nora. All in favor, motion carried.
Disclosure: Jay said he works for a company that delivers to the popcorn
wagon. Jim True, determined there was no conflict.
Michael suggested when it comes to design review applications Sarah could
be the chair for those particular applications. Sarah said she could support
being a co-chairman. The board supported the arrangement.
334 W. Hallam -fence and landscape
Hayden Connor, owner
Amy pointed out that the house is on the National Register and it sits on a
9,000 square foot house. It is a nice example of a significant Victorian.
Some of the features on the house are unique because the previous owner
had a lumber yard. There are two structures on the site, a primary house and
carriage house that was built in the 80's. The topic is finishing the project in
terms of the site plan and landscaping. The Connor's propose a wooden
privacy fence along the alley facade and east property line and partially
coming across the front facade along Hallam Street. They had a similar
fence in the past and that fence was taken down during construction and
partially fell down. There is nothing on the site. Staff signed off on a fence
permit that did allow for the reconstruction of a solid wood fence along the
alley and up the east property line. I did not feel it appropriate to sign off on
certain aspects of the project. The fencing across the property would not go
in front of the house but staff feels it is too out of character with the primary
facade and the height of it would block some views of features'from the
street. The other aspect of the project that was not signed off on was the
concept of creating a 30 inch raised planter bed inside the fence which
would be filled with conifers planted in a continuous row. The planting
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MINUTES OF OCTOBER 22, 2008
pattern is out of context for the site and the Parks Dept. felt that the trees
would not fare well due to the close plantings and the number of trees.
Staff recommends working together to come up with a more sensitive
solution for the section of fence that faces Hallam and to revisit the
landscape plan that is in more character with the property.
Exhibit I -photograph of the front of house
Exhibit II -photograph of fence posts
Exhibit III - Hayden's proposal
Hayden explained that the original proposal was for a metal fence but that
was denied so we went to a wooden fence that was existing when we bought
the house.
The fence was damaged during the construction of 340 W. Hallam. I was
told by their architect that I could tear down the fence and rebuild it.
When I met with Amy to restart the landscaping I was told I couldn't build a
7 foot fence as it had been taken town. If you repair an existing fence you
can keep and maintain it on a grandfathered basis.
Amy was uncomfortable as to how the fence attaches to the house. The
house has full exposure on Third and Hallam Street. There is a very little
portion that the fence blocks. I would like to do a fence that is six feet
around the perimeter of the property and on Hallam have a five foot fence
with a one foot lattice and have it connect to the building.
The land use code permits a berm or planter to basically hold a row of trees.
I have been told that the Norway spruce will survive at 8,000 feet. I would
not invest $15,000 on trees if they were not acclimated to this climate. I am
looking for privacy and that is why I bought a 9,000 square foot lot. The
interest of HPC is the exterior of the home. The only view is to the south
and that is not encumbered. I appreciate staff's points but I disagree with
them.
Jay said the fence posts seem close to the property line. Amy said she
doesn't think a variance was granted. You can go on either side of the
property line with a fence. Hayden said the neighbors have five feet from
our fence.
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Sarah asked what the fence code was on a corner lot. Amy said it can't be
more than 42 inches tall in the front of the house. Behind the facades they
can go as tall as six feet.
Hayden said the fence on Hallam would be five feet with a one foot lattice
on top. The fence in back on the alley would be a six foot stockade and on
the east side.
Hayden said the berm issue is 30 inches and I want to make that a planter
and plant a row of trees for a privacy hedge.
Amy said Hayden is meeting the height limit by code for the front but the
design of the fence lacks transparency.
Chairperson Michael Hoffman opened the public hearing. There were no
public comments. The public hearing portion of the agenda item was closed.
Fence:
Sarah said she was fine with the height of the fence. We would encourage
more of a transparency from our guidelines.
Ann said the lattice is OK due to the size of the house. Possibly 18 inches of
lattice would work better and add transparency.
Jay said he is fine with the fence between the two properties. Jay said he
would prefer to see the lattice on top of the fence. The more setbacks from
the house would allow sympathy to the house. Possibly setback the fence a
foot on Hallam Street.
Nora said she is concerned about the solid stockade. Historically there was
no fence there. Guideline 1.3 talks about transparence and the more
transparency would comply with our code.
Planter hedge row:
Ann explained when trees are planted in a planter it isn't the best
environment. They get. stressed. The proposal is much too strict of a
planting. You could do a more historical planting with a variety of trees and
bushes in different shapes and heights.
Michael said a hedge row would be an impact from the alley.
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Jay said you are using vegetation to create a 15 foot fence which could be
interpreted as to what the code does not allow. Multitude of vegetation as
Ann said would be better.
Hayden said the alley isn't the issue, it is his neighbors. I have a back up
tree which is the fesquatie blue spruce.
Ann said having a variety of different trees to break up the density and use
irregular plantings is what you need to work with.
MOTION: Ann moved to approve the 6 foot stockade fence along the alley
and east side of the property with a 4 1/2 foot stockade fence with 18 inch
lattice along Hallam, south side of the property. Fence setback one foot
from the corner of the house. Vegetation to be planted in anon-uniform
fashion subject to review by monitor and staff. Motion second by Jay.
Michael said he would like a condition that the fence is completed by
December 1St and the vegetation and irrigation be completed by July 4tn next
year.
Amended motion: Ann amended the motion to add the condition that the
fence is completed by December 1St and the vegetation and irrigation is
completed by July 4' 2009. .lay second the amendment.
Hayden said the fence is subject to the weather.
Hayden asked if he could have his fence line where it was before and just
have a jog so that you can see the corner of the house. Bring the fence
across two feet out and put a post in and go back and put another post in so
that you can see the corner of the house.
Michael said Jay is correct that the ability to see the corner without having to
be at a particular angle is one of the principles of historic preservation on a
primary facade.
Hayden said he can live with the decision but he wants the ability to have a
planter. There may be some things that have prohibitive grown but if I want
some smaller trees that go to ten feet and I need 15 I would like to option to
have a 30 inch planter. I don't want a bunch of trees that will grow high and
take up 3/4 of the yard to get to that height.
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Michael said there was no prohibition in the motion about a planter.
Roll call vote: Sarah, yes; Brian, yes; Jay, yes; Nora, yes; Ann, yes;
Michael, yes.
Hayden clarified the motion: A 6 foot fence against the alley and neighbor.
A 4 '/2 foot high fence in front with a 1 foot setback off the front portion of
the building with 18 inches of lattice on top. I have the ability to have
greenery behind it no higher than six feet. Along the alley and neighbors
property I can put in a row of trees. They can't be the same tree and they
have to be mixed. I can have a 30 inch planter but what goes in it has to be
approved.
Michael said if you come back with a plan of plantings in the planter that
meet the guidelines you would probably get approved.
Ann said we are trying to get away from the marching trees. You have the
option to put a planter in. Our guidelines refer to landscaping that is
historically appropriate. We are looking for a softer more varied landscape.
If you want to incorporate a planter in that, that is fine. What we don't want
to see is a very linear edging on two sides of the property with a uniform
type of tree.
Hayden said he gets the trees and all he was being asked is to vary the
variety of the tree and not make it look like a hedge row but it could be
pretty much different trees along the east side of the property and along the
alley side of the fence.
Sarah said we talked about irregular plantings in species and in placements.
Amy pointed out that Hayden needs to amend his fence permit to finish out
what is happening on Hallam. A drawing needs to be presented as to what
was approved. The landscape plan needs to be brought back to staff before
anything is purchased so that we make sure it is an approved landscape plan.
Popcorn Wagon, cont'd public hearing
Amy said part of the discussion at the last meeting was that the popcorn
wagon wasn't completely finished. There is a drawing in the packet of the
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final finish. It is asemi-permanent structure but is a significant site feature
that is intended to be there for some time. Since the old wagon is gone we
probably don't have to exactly recreate it. There is some historical lettering
and treatments on this which might not be necessary and maybe it should be
a product of its own time.
Jonothan Stoller, owner and Marcus Wade operations manager.
Jonathan said we can go either way. Jonathan said he personally likes the
old one but it fell apart. The drawings are taking the old design and
applying it to the new structure which is basically the same. The dimensions
are slightly different but it is close to what was there and it is more
functional. It is a 1913 popcorn wagon and we are serving hot food and it
has a different function than it had before.
Brian said he is going to advocate letting the old popcorn wagon go. We
need to find a middle ground and make it a product of its own time. The
proposal is a good example as to how it can be dressed up but it doesn't have
to look exactly like the old one. I'm not opposed to it being painted and it
doesn't have to be the same color as the old one.
Ann agreed with staff in terms of the proposal that it might be going a little
too far in replicating the other wagon. As a suggestion take out some of the
lettering and keep the blocks of color to liven the wagon up. It needs
simplify a little so that it looks more contemporary. The commercial value
of having the wagon there is very important. It is an affordable place to eat.
Michael said the design seems a little too over the top in terms of
duplication. We need to give the applicant direction to finish the project.
Sarah said the design should be an expression of what the applicant wants to
see in the popcorn wagon rather than what the board gave direction on.
Jonothan said he wanted the new wagon to look like the old popcorn wagon.
We also like the way it is now and all the welds need sanded and cleaned up.
That is a matter of time and weather. We didn't feel cornered in making it
look like the old wagon. I was trying to do that. If the board doesn't like
that we can change it.
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Sarah suggested maybe the wheels don't need to be yellow and have them
black. Possibly the awning should be black. Painting it red is a fun color.
Jonothan said they can look at the design and tone it down a little.
Brian said it can be an eclectic design and it should be expressive and it
doesn't need toned down.
Jay agreed that staff and monitor could take care of the final design and the
design presented tonight is close.
Brian said the greater context of the site is important. The corner design of
the seating area should be retained.
Jay said the benching along the street works. The color of the wagon will
pull out and you will see through the umbrellas.
Nora said she looked at the wagon and it is great. The wagon is a product of
its time and we do not need to recreate what was there.
MOTION: Jay made the motion to approve the project with staff and
monitor reviewing the new graphic and paint scheme and quality and finish
of the wagon; second by Nora. All in favor, motion carried.
Amy said this is considered a substantial amendment for the new
commercial development at the LaCocina property. There is a view plane
that originates from the Hotel Jerome that comes across Main Street and
over the Miner's building and floats over the LaCocina building and restricts
the height that they can build. HPC did approve a variance for a portion of
the building, 3'3" inch intrusion that had a negligible impact. The applicant
would like to amend that intrusion by adding another 30 inches for an
elevator overrun. That would take the variance to 5'9". Staff does not
support this and it is pushing the limit of a negligible impact. Staff is not in
support of an additional view plan variance.
Two other things are on the table tonight; a proposal for the fenestration
change on the front of the building which staff is not supporting and the
proposal to enclose some decks on the rear facade which staff does not
support. It is important for the rear facade to have some sort of
characteristics that break up the view of the building.
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Jay said previously the owner had a contract with his company. He might
have a conflict because when the project is done the owner might contract
with him.
Charles Cunniffe said there is no agreement or lease in place for the
restaurant at this time.
Jay said he doesn't feel he has a conflict. Jim True said everything is
speculative and the disclosure is appropriate.
Charles Cunniffe, architect
Tom Gilcrest, architect
Charles said the elevator was an issue that we needed to come back with but
the front is basically moving of a few mullions. The back where we built
out the balconies we have a proposal that might work for both parties.
Front facade:
Charles said the only thing we are talking about is the difference between the
French doors and two windows. When we did the plan we did not have an
interior floor plan that worked out. We have the same amount of glass area.
There are two side windows with one additional door.
Sarah said there was a center door and how we have two doors.
Charles said it is broken up into a bedroom space and a living room space.
In the memo it mentioned blending new with historic. We had a steel lentil
which was approved. We could break up the steel lentil and introduce a
darker material and do double hung windows. We would also like to change
the steel beam across to two sections of cut sandstone which would be an
historical reference.
Amy said changing the lentils and widening of the mullion between them is
better. Sarah agreed but there should be a little more interest in the front
facade, possibly changing the color of the proposed brick or changing the
brick pattern. Charles agreed.
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Balcony:
Charles said on the back we had 2 balcony pieces. They were large setbacks
to the bedrooms. The only natural light was through the door. A suggestion,
if we where to take the same piece that was once setback and treat it more of
a shed element. We would still have the definition that we had before.
Instead of having a total recess set back we would set the window back a
foot and have a jog in the wall and then there would be a shed roof. From
the alley the shed roof would take your eye up and break the parapet.
Sarah said the floor plan of the room would come forward with more FAR.
The design enhances the room.
Charles said when you look at the floor plan the balcony is the same. The
walls came out where the recess is located. We wanted to recapture that
recessed space. The shed roof would break up the massing and go just to the
height of the window. The proposal involves the north east and North West
corners of the upper level.
View plane:
Charles said the Building Dept. will not allow us to have this unit accessible
without an elevator. All floors need to be accessed by an elevator. If we
can't add 30 inches we can't get the elevator to this floor. We would have to
have the elevator empty on this floor go down the hallway and come up
another lift. An elevator cannot act as a primary access. The intrusion of the
view plane is 1'2" and it is less than 3.71ong, just the width of the narrow
part of the elevator. We are talking about less than four square feet. By
allowing the further intrusion into the view plane solves the elevator issue
for us. The elevator is in the perspective.
Nora asked if the enclosure would require affordable housing mitigation.
Charles said the mitigation might have been traded out somewhere else in
the project but if they have to mitigate the 20 square feet it would be with
cash-in-lieu.
John Colson said that could be a condition of approval that the mitigation is
in cash-in-lieu.
Michael pointed out that the mitigation is part of the code.
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John Colson said they are almost finished with the foundation and the crane
can be moved as soon as the shell is finished.
John Colson said as a condition we would work with the monitor to try and
frame it smaller and skinnier.
Chairperson, Michael Hoffman opened the public hearing.
Front facade change:
Ann said she would prefer a darker material on the brick mullions and steel
lentils of the front facade change. All board members agreed and the
architect also agreed.
Elimination of the deck elements on the alley and the creation of the
shed roofs:
Ann thanked the architect for reacting so quickly. The proposal is a better
solution. Jay said his concern is the material. Charles said it would be a dark
copper non-reflective.
Further intrusion into the view plane:
Jay said he sees a need for it. Nora pointed out that the view plane came
into play in the 70's. It was a progressive enactment when there was no
infill and it was forward thinking. It is in violation and we are chipping
away the view plane.
Ann said she understands the necessity of it and without it; it is somewhat of
a dangerous situation. For the record the exception should have never been
granted. If the miner's building disappeared we would have the view plane
intact again. We can't reverse what was done and you have showed that it is
necessary so I will support it but the view plane ordinance is being eroded
bit by bit.
Nora commented that the Miner's building had to work within the ordinance
and step back. Jay said philosophically the view plane ordinance should
have been upheld.
Sarah said at the time we reviewed this project the HPC felt it appropriate to
give the variance. In terms of the additional inches I am in support of that.
Staff and the architect can work to try and minimize it.
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Charles said when the project was approved there was a lot of desire to put
the top floor back from Hopkins which pushed it into the view plan. There
was a lot of give and take in the project.
Sarah said we need to figure out how to make the view planes work so that
we are not constantly creating a situation that we need variances. The view
plane from Bentley's is from the second floor lobby.
Brian said feel the applicants hands are tied from the IBC. The applicant
doesn't have a lot of flexibility in this situation.
Michael said on the other hand there was a strong policy made in the 70's
that we should preserve the view plane from the Jerome. In this case I am
willing to compromise.
MOTION: Ann moved to approve the request for a substantial amendment
as presented tonight for a view plane exemption, motion second by Sarah.
Michael stated amendments to the motion.
1. Front facade -staff and monitor to be involved in the choice of
materials.
2. Facade on the alley - If there is additional floor area the applicant
provides the calculated measurements and whatever mitigation is
required by code.
3. Roof material -Work with staff and monitor on the non-reflective
material.
4. View plane variance -Work with staff and monitor to minimize the
actual amount of the intrusion into the view plane.
Ann accepted Michael's amendments and Sarah second the amendment.
Roll call vote: Brian, yes; Jay, yes; Nora, no; Ann, yes; Sarah, yes;
Michael, yes. Motion carried S-1.
Work session: Main Street Streetscape - no minutes
MOTION: Michael moved to adjourn; second by Sarah. All in favor,
motion carried.
Meetin~,a'd'ourn d at 8:30 .m.
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Kathleen .Strickland, Chief Deputy Clerk
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