HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.hpc.20081210ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION
MINUTES OF DECEMBER 10, 2008
RED BUTTE CEMETERY -CONCEPTUAL AND ON-SITE RELOCATION -
CONT'D PUBLIC HEARING ........................................................................................... 1
601 W. HALLAM - WORK SESSION - NO MINUTES ............................................. 10
~..
11
ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION
MINUTES OF DECEMBER 10, 2008
Chairperson, Michael Hoffman called the meeting to order at 5:00 p.m.
Commissioners in attendance: Ann Mullins, Jay Maytin, Brian McNellis,
Sarah Broughton and Nora Berko.
Staff present: Jim True, Special Counsel
Amy Guthrie, Historic Preservation Officer
Sara Adams, Historic Preservation Planner
Kathy Strickland, Chief Deputy City Clerk
MOTION: Ann moved to approve the minutes of Oct. 22"d and Nov.12,
2008; second by ,lay. All in favor, motion carried.
RED BUTTE CEMETERY -CONCEPTUAL AND ON-SITE
RELOCATION - CONT'D PUBLIC HEARING
Nora recused herself.
Letter from Howie Malory -Exhibit I
E-mail from Philip Altfeld -Exhibit II
2"a letter from Howie Malory -Exhibit III
Alan Richmond, planning consultant for the Red Butte Cemetery.
Four board members were present and introduced: John Thorp, president
Tony Vagneur, Stony Davis, Terry Collins.
Alan said the original application was submitted Nov. 2007. Since that time
two hearings were held. We also had two neighborhood discussions. As a
result of the meeting we have made significant progress. The design being
presented achieves some of the associations basic functional needs in order
to operate the cemetery and at the same time we have been respectful of our
neighbors and sensitive to the natural man made characteristics of the
cemetery. The staff conditions are acceptable. We feel we have made
significant concessions to make this a project that works for everyone. The
greatest resistance was a dwelling unit within the maintenance facility and
the resulting scale that would hold those two uses. Therefore we have
deleted the dwelling unit from the submission and have scaled back the size
of the building. The building proposed is 1200 square feet compared to our
original proposal which was 2800 square feet. It has been reduced by more
than half of the original proposal. It does mean that a fundamental part of
ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION
MINUTES OF DECEMBER 10, 2008
~..~ our program needs will not be met onsite, but the applicant understands the
need for that concession. The size and location of the spoils yard was
another concern. Those comments and concerns were understandable
because on the site the spoils yard that exists today is not a very well
managed area and we recognize that. It creates a negative impression of
what the future spoils yard might look like. We feel the new design will
create a less visible spoils area. Originally the spoils yard was back behind
the building. The back of the spoils yard would only be 125 feet from the
property line and visible to the neighbors. What we have done in the
current application is flip the spoils yard to the front of the building. With
that change we are internalizing the impacts of this facility. It doesn't face
the neighbors and essentially it all occurs within our work area in front of
the building facing the cemetery. We have the opportunity to sink the spoils
yard and keep the building at natural grade. The truck turning would occur
within the work area and the back of the building is now 175 feet from the
property line and neighbors. We feel conceptual should be granted as staff
has recommended.
The project maintenance facility is an allowed use in this zone district. It is
.,a,~ essential to have the facility in order to maintain the burial markers, keep the
irrigation system running and to preserve the trees. We would ask HPC and
our neighbors to think about how much this applicant has compromised
during this process. In the beginning it would have been cheaper to propose
the building in the very back corner of the cemetery. That is where the
utilities are to serve the building, instead we set it back from the neighbors
both on the side and from the back. Now we have eliminated the dwelling
unit and cut the size in half and we have moved the spoils yard. Several
letters sent indicate that the size should be reduced further. The bathroom
and warm room in the maintenance facility is a place for the cemetery
employee to get out of the cold and use the bathroom instead of running to
the end of the property. The two maintenance bays do not have standard
heating facilities. We are planning over head space heaters which is less
costly. The warm room is an area where liquids will be kept for operations.
The landscape plan and management plan can be addressed at final.
Graeme Means, architect:
Graeme went over the proposal. There are residences along the northern and
western boundary. There are platted burial plots. The site is not flat and it
~,~,, slopes from the south to the north. It slopes a little over four feet within 130
2
ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION
MINUTES OF DECEMBER 10, 2008
~.. feet. The access is from the southern part of the cemetery. The entrance of
the building faces south. The building is at existing grade. The land slopes
up and we are proposing to lower the southern end of the work yard so that
there is a four foot cut and a level work yard. This would also buffer any
noise. The dump truck comes in and backs up and dumps and goes back out.
We have combined the spoils yard and parking. There is also washing of
equipment, repairs, back hoes etc. that will be in the yard. It is our intent to
internalize all the functions.
The Victorian cabin remains the same as a visitor center and used quite
infrequently. It will be restored on the exterior and remodeled on the
interior. We have decided not to move the outhouse.
On the architecture we have made the building more of a vernacular
architecture. On the materials we have talked about the wall sheathing and
roof in a corrugated rusted panel and doing the trim in a dark green. Some
of the material taken out we will use to buffer the area. The circulation
works better if the building is not set on the grid but Amy is suggesting
aligning the building with the grid. There are two work bays with garage
doors. The warm room is 9 x 18 feet and there is an ADA compliant
bathroom.
Sarah asked what the height of the ridge line was.
Graeme said he thinks it is 17 to 18 feet.
Sarah also asked about the surface of the yard. Graeme said it is probably
going to be dirt. When we get into the site engineering that might change.
Amy said the applicant has already explained some of the needs of the
cemetery. The city dealt with the Ute Cemetery and probably 1/3 of the
grave stones had to be taken off the site to be repaired. It would be nice if
they had a shop area where stones could be repaired onsite. Possibly there
could be some cooperation where other cemeteries can use or share their
equipment. Amy said there is justification for the kind of facility they are
proposing. A family who is grieving might need to use the proposed facility.
A site management should be a requirement for final and the Parks
Department has offered assistant in terms of assessing trees and weed
~.,,, management. There is a cemetery expert who the City worked with on Ute
3
ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION
MINUTES OF DECEMBER 10, 2008
~..,. Cemetery who has visited numerous sites. How do you excavate for a grave
that has the least impact and what should you communicate to visitors of the
site. All these are things that the City can continue to work on with the
association. Staff wants to support this project as they are a volunteer
association.
In terms of the architecture and the placement of the building staff
recommends the building is set on natural grade which is the plan and that
fill dirt not be brought around the building. We shouldn't be trying to hide
the building because then it doesn't look in context with the rest of the
property. It has been mentioned that this is a cultural landscape and in a
sense it is because it reflects the history of Aspen and the families and
professions and fraternal orders. It is also a design landscape and someone
was very careful in laying out the grid of the side and the establishment of
the cottonwood rows. The suggestion that the cottonwoods be extended is to
provide some of the screening that people are interested in and also to
encourage that the planting happen now. In one of the letters Joe Porter
suggested that there be one pathway leading toward the maintenance
,. building with trees. Maybe that is not the solution but there might be
~,. another solution to bring the extension of three across. The history of the
site is very grid like and the cottonwoods are an important part of the
character of the property.
Amy said she noticed on the site plan that the little Victorian buildings are a
little askew at the top of the slope and that was probably because they
wanted to leave as much space for the grave sites. It would be more in
character if it was a little bit oriented to the grid.
Chairperson, Michael Hoffman went over the letters and e-mails.
Michael said Howie Malory asked for confirmation about rehabilitation of
the north of the parcel.
John Thorp said they will remove the berms and are moving the spoils piles
and at that time would extend the irrigation and do re-vegetation.
Michael said Howie Malory's letter talks about a ten year commitment with
the City to help fund the meadow restoration and tree management
replacement plan.
4
ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION
MINUTES OF DECEMBER 10, 2008
~...- John said we have not explored anything with the city except working with
the city forester.
Allen Richmond said these are points that could be raised in front of city
council and the council would have to weigh in they choose to do so.
Michael also said in the letter there is a concern from the neighbors that the
warm room could be used for some form of housing.
John Thorp said that is not our intention. It is not going to be used for
housing.
Michael said there is also a letter from Joe Porter. He is concerned about the
size of the building and the maintenance yard. Alan Richmond said the
purpose of the meeting is to demonstrate the need for the building in the size
that has been designed. It is down to 1200 square feet on a 17 acre parcel of
land. We have brought the building as far south as we can to not impact the
neighbors. It is not in our interest to impact the cemetery.
~.,_ Michael said in an e-mail from Philip Altfeld it suggests that maybe there is
a revenue source for the cemetery by leasing the maintenance facility. Is
there such a plan. Alan said that is preposterous. You don't build a facility
to respond to yesterdays needs. We are not coming back to the City to ask
for facility after facility. You build a facility to meet today's needs and the
realistic needs that the association will need in the near future. They do not
want to go through this process again. It is agonizing and expensive for an
association that does not have money to spend. We are looking at the needs
of the association for the future.
Michael said the Altfeld's also talked about a broken irrigation ditch.
John Thorp said they had a water leak in our line that comes from the Marolt
property, through Cemetery lane and goes on Castle Creek drive and we
fixed it. If they are referring to the far north end of the property our property
originally had drainage at the end and it was an irrigated pasture. We have
tried to stop the irrigation because as the construction and development goes
on the east portion of the north end it blocks off the ability of runoff to go
out there. We are not intentionally irrigating the north end of the cemetery.
<...:
ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION
MINUTES OF DECEMBER 10, 2008
a+.., Jay inquired about the bathroom and if there is a shower in it. John said
there are a toilet and a basin.
Brian said Amy mentioned a facility for people who are visiting the
cemetery. Is it the intent to have the bathroom multi use?
John Thorp explained that we have not found a need for a public restroom
out there.
Brian asked for clarification about the trees and if the proposal is to extend
them on the grid up to the maintenance building. Amy said the Parks
Department suggested the cotton wood trees.
Chairperson, Michael Hoffinan opened the public hearing.
Howie Malory, 1220 Snowbunny lane:
The meadow is in the north part of the parcel which includes the berm and
rubble piles. The Quonset but is also located there. The neighborhood
meetings have been very productive in this application. The City parks and
.~., ,, forester have also been involved particularly with the cottonwood trees. The
cotton wood trees will come down within the next ten to twenty years.
Howie pointed out the issues that need raised and clarified.
The restoration of the meadow and cottonwood tree management plan was
an attempt to separate the plan from the building itself. It will be difficult to
raise money for the building and we don't know when it will be built. We
need to know the restoration plan as it could take ten years until the building
is built. Howie said he appreciates the applicant stating the warm room will
not be used as a residential unit. The present caretaker lives in the
southeastern Victorian bldg. summer and winter. He works for the Ski Co.
in the winter.
Joe Porter, Snowbuny Lane: Joe asked the applicant to take his comments
as constructive criticism. Joe suggested that some of the human functions be
moved to the Victorian building. It is time to move forward and a lot of
these issues can be conditions of approval. There are two landscapes, one is
the existing. I am unclear about what is planned for the north of the
property. The restoration plan should include the north meadow. How the
`Vy d
ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION
MINUTES OF DECEMBER 10.2008
~.~ facility fits the land and how it is landscaped will determine if the building is
~,,. part of the meadow landscape. There is probably 150 years of inventory in
the cemetery and having cottonwoods down to the facility in 100 years those
will need to be taken down. The north meadow should be acknowledged
that it will be a cemetery in the future. It should be re-vegetated and maybe
the irrigation system should be restored. I disagree with the cottonwood
landscape. There are neighbors that are landscape architects that have
offered to help and there are HPC members who are landscape architects.
Everyone should get together and determine the long term solution. The
north meadow landscape is a very simple solution. Graeme should be left to
handle the grading with a monitor.
John Thorp stated that they have always said they are not ready to propose a
landscaping plan until we got to final. The cottonwoods got discussed
because of the City Forester visiting the site.
Michael asked the applicant if they could meet with Sara Shaw on the
landscaping before they go to city council. John Thorp said they already had
a meeting with Sara and she has offered to do some landscape work with us.
We can meet anytime. We were not meeting with a landscape firm until the
,..,:, proposal was approved.
Chairperson, Michael Hoffman closed the public hearing.
Jay asked if the Quonset but will go away. John said yes.
Commissioner comments:
Ann stated that the building is acceptable. If the building was placed on the
grid it would work much better. The building should be on the natural
grade, no benning on the side and use native landscaping. Aesthetically a
gravel surface would be much better than dirt.
Sarah said she is torn on the orientation of the building on the grid. There
could be a precedence not having it on the grid as the building would
separate itself from the plots. On the landscaping it is kind of intriguing
having the building nestled in that would visually have the cars less
obtrusive.
Brian said he is not in favor of any berming. If it needs screened the
.~, ~ building could be brought down.
7
ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION
MINUTES OF DECEMBER 10, 2008
Jay said he is 100% for the facility and it serves a great purpose. There
might be more community benefit if you choose to help out the other
cemetery facilities in town. If you turn the building onto the grid the
footprint of the building might have to be increased for the accessibility of
turning trucks around. At an angle it might work better.
Graeme said the footprint would have to increase somewhat.
Jay pointed out that you wouldn't construct a building like this without a
heated room and restroom for the workers. I am in full support of this
project with Amy's conditions.
Michael went over the conditions in the resolutions.
1. Place the maintenance building and work yard at natural grade
of below grade. The grading should not create any anomalies in
the landscaping.
2. Consider placing the building orthogonally to the historic grid.
Brian said he needs to see more details of the entire building in order
to determine how it will mesh with the landscape. #2 condition must
be resolved at final.
Ann pointed out that the overall landscape conservation plan for the
cemetery would involve community input. Michael asked Jim True if we
had authority to ad community input in the resolution.
Jim said HPC does not have the authority to require community input but
they could ask for volunteer input. Brian said we as board members can
volunteer.
Amy said you need to see a plan that meets the guidelines but how that plan
is developed isn't normally something that we insist on seeing a format.
John Thorp said they have talked to Sara Shaw about doing some work. Our
idea about landscaping is to screen it for the neighbors and cemetery's
benefit however that is best accomplished.
8
ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION
MINUTES OF DECEMBER 10, 2008
°..~. Brian said a simple sketch is needed that shows what the orientation would
look like from Snow bunny Lane and other visible areas where it can be
seen.
Graeme said we can do a proposal taking in all the comments.
3. Consider screening the building with cottonwood plantings as
recommended by the Parks Department. Brian said he is not in favor
of the cottonwoods but could defer his judgment until final. Ann also
said she feels the cottonwoods are sort of a band aid solution. Right
now all the cottonwoods are the same size. If you have the existing
row then plant cottonwoods 15 years later it breaks the design
landscape of the southern part of the property.
Amy said instead of having one arm you could bring the grid across.
Brian commented that this might not be the appropriate time to do that.
Michael said on #3 ad make the development of a long term landscape
plan as part of the final decision making of this application.
~,~ Jay said he doesn't feel conceptual approval should hinge on a
landscaping plan at final for the entire parcel.
Michael said he doesn't see it that way. In the beginning we discussed
how inappropriate any kind of development was within the park zone
district. This is an opportunity to integrate the concerns of the
community.
Ann pointed out that we are talking about a landscape management plan
where we look at the entire parcel to make it environmental healthy.
4. Delete this condition.
5. For final application, Staff recommends the applicant meet again with
the City and other resource to provide HPC with an update on site
management plans as described in this memo. Michael said #5 has
been changed to: The applicant shall provide a comprehensive
landscape management plan for the entire site as part of its final
application.
ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION
MINUTES OF DECEMBER 10 2008
~. Sarah said the board is undecided about the cottonwoods so that condition
should be deleted. All agreed.
Brian amended #5. Explore the orientation and screening possibilities of
the maintenance facility.
MOTION: Sarah moved to approve Resolution #30 for the Red Butte
Cemetery as amended by the board; second by Ann. All in favor, motion
carried.
334 W. Hallam -monitoring
Amy said part of the approval of the fence was that it be completed by
Dec. l . That has not happened. Mr. Conner has been pursuing this. The
primary issue is the grade. The grade on the site has been altered. Fence
permits are issued from natural grade and it is difficult to determine that.
Several things have been recommended.
Monitor: Michael will be the monitor.
601 W. Hallam - work session - no minutes
MOTION: Michael moved to adjourn; second by Brian. All in favor,
motion carried.
Meeting adjourned at 8:00 p.m.
Kathleen J. Strickland, Chief Deputy Clerk
~..,
10