HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.hpc.20090114ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION
MINUTES OF JANUARY 14, 2009
214 E. BLEEKER -PROJECT MONITORING -ROOF MATERIALS AND
WALKWAY ....................................................................................................................... 1
GREENWALD PAVILION -FINAL REVIEW -CONTINUED PUBLIC HEARING . 6
426 E. MAIN STREET (GALENA & MAIN) SUBSTANTIAL AMENDMENT............ 9
PUBLIC HEARING ........................................................................................................... 9
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ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION
MINUTES OF JANUARY 14, 2009
Chairperson, Michael Hoffman called the meeting to order at 5:00 p.m.
Commissioners in attendance: Brian McNellis, Sarah Broughton, Ann
Mullins and Nora Berko. Jay Maytin was excused.
Staff present: Jim True, Special Counsel
Amy Guthrie, Historic Preservation Officer
Sara Adams, Historic Preservation Planner
Kathy Strickland, Chief Deputy City Clerk
Disclosures: Nora will excuse herself on 214 E. Bleeker
MOTION.' Brian moved to nominate Michael Hoffman as Chair and Sarah
Broughton as Vice-chair. All in favor, motion carried. Resolution #1, 2009.
214 E. BLEEKER -PROJECT MONITORING -ROOF MATERIALS
AND WALKWAY
Jim True noted that the project monitoring issue if approved requires 3
positive votes.
Dave Rybak, architect
Sara relayed that the property is next to the Community Church in the West
End. There was a material change on the roof without approval. They were
approved for a corrugated metal roof on the secondary garage element on the
alley and a shed roof that was existing. They were replaced with a copper
roof. Right now we have a copper standing seam roof where there should
have been a corrugated metal roof.
At the site the stone steps that where to be retained where not retained as
part of the front walk. There has been copper flashing detailing that has
been added to the front porch and around the pediment on the front porch
that was not called out on the permit and not approved.
Sara said the main issue is the roof material. Corrugated metal is utilitarian
and a lot of thought went into the approval of the corrugated metal and it has
been replaced with standing seam copper.
There are three recommendations:
ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION
MINUTES OF JANUARY 14, 2009
1. HPC can require the project to revert back to the original approved
material.
2. Approve an alternate material to replace the cooper roof material which
would be discussed with the architect and owner.
3. Approve the copper roof.
Sara said the stone steps and cooper flashing detailing are up to HPC to
decide what to do. It sounds like the steps were in bad condition and staff
does not feel they were original but it was a condition of approval that they
be retained.
Amy added that miner's cottages typically had stone or wooden steps. Brick
would not have been used in a tiered or flared design.
Dave Rybak said the approved landscape plan had a straight walk which was
modified because the Parks Dept. wanted it away from the trees so we now
have a straight walk to the property line and a curved walk to the street curb
to miss the street trees. Sara pointed out that the walkway was changed
without HPC approval.
Dave Rybak said the change to the copper roof is an easy explanation of our
interpretation of the guidelines. What occurred between the owner, contract
and architect was simply we had to made the decision of putting the flashing
package together to install as we were putting the stone back on the building
and the wood siding back on the building. We knew we had a corrugated
metal roof approved. We had to start with the flashing at the stone and
flashing between the stone and the wood siding. In reviewing that the color
choice of a tin colored flashing and a rose stone, it did not make sense to us
so we went through different scenarios and came to the determination that a
copper flashing would be best. When the copper ages it would be a dark
brown patina and look great against the rose stone. In light of that it also
made sense to use copper as the metal roof. When I read the guidelines it
clearly states that metal roofs need to be approved and we had a metal roof
approved. In my interpretation the difference between tin and copper is a
color. Color is not an issue before the board. I made the determination that
the change to copper is a color change and not a material change because it
is a metal roof. The roof is at the back of the building on the west face
against the Community Church. The other roof is on the west side on a porch
addition. From the street the roof is only visible for a very small portion as
you walk past the house toward the Community Church or from the alley.
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The color scheme with the copper roof as it patinas is utilitarian. If we had
brought the copper roof during conceptual or final to the HPC we believe the
board would have approved it. We apologize for the misinterpretation and
we were not trying to go against our approvals.
Dave presented pictures of cooper roofs being used throughout town.
Dave said the flashing that is exposed on the front of the house the
construction documents do show flashing. There is a six inch piece of
copper at the bottom of the wall that will be covered up with wood siding.
Sarah said she reviewed the changes and suggested that the changes go in
front of the board.
Dave said several things occurred with the stone steps. At the final hearing I
made statements that we were unsure of the conditions of the stones because
we hadn't taken them apart and they were on the ground. They had also
been sitting in water. We do not know when the stone was placed there.
We found that everything below the roof on the porch, columns balusters
and siding were all replace in the 60's and 70's. Aesthetically transitioning
from the walk to a wood porch with a stone foundation it seems odd that you
would have stone steps. The original builder would have made the porch out
of stone as well.
Sarah commented that condition #5 states that the steps will be reused in the
construction of the front porch.
Amy pointed out that condition # 10 states that no deviation from the exterior
elevations approved without first being reviewed by HPC, staff and monitor.
We don't review paint color but we certainly review color that is integral to
a material.
Ann said the steps were clearly outlined. They should not be the design
chosen or the brick steps chosen. What would be appropriate is a stone step
or wooden step to that era of house no masonry steps. The stone was
approved in the architectural plan.
Dave said he has many pictures of houses in the West End with brick steps.
ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION
MINUTES OF JANUARY 14, 2009
Ann asked if the corrugated metal roof was the material indicated. Sara said
it just stated corrugated metal.
Sarah pointed out that the roof is on new portions of the project. The
struggle is whether the copper is a better material choice than the corrugated
metal. The house is a little more formal than other historic resources in the
west end. It would definitely need to be pre-patina. Sarah agreed with Ann
about the steps and aesthetically the steps want to be the red rock and match
the base that is going around the house.
Ann and Michael expressed their concern about the process. Ann said a
corrugated roof is very different than a standing seam just in appearance no
matter what the material is. The material was changed without approval.
Michael said his concern is that a very different roof material was installed.
On the other hand if his interpretation was reasonable are we being
unreasonable by not accepting it.
Brian said he is also struggling with the roof. Potentially the roof material
installed could be more appropriate.
Sarah said the architect has been forth right with getting drawings.
Hopefully we can be proactive in moving forward. This should have come
before the monitor first.
Ann said coming in for approval after the fact puts the H PC in a very
difficult position.
Michael said we are either going to hold our ground, yield or be aggressive.
Michael proposed continuing this for two weeks in order for the board to
think about the situation.
Dave Rybak said he feels the board doesn't truly believe him which he takes
offense to. We came in only because Sara and I have a different opinion of
my interpretation of the code. We are here because what it came down to
was the correct material selection for us as the construction team. We would
like to go forward and the examples of other standing seam copper roofs that
have been approved have been submitted.
ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION
MINUTES OF JANUARY 14, 2009
Brian said the HPC could take the same stance as Dave and say we are
offended as well by the architect taking assumptions without coming to us in
the first place.
Dave said we don't want to take up the board's time and we didn't want to
be here in the first place. We want this project to run smoothly.
Michael reiterated that he is not ready to make a decision.
Ann said the steps are very clear and the roof material is a tough decision.
Sarah pointed out that our ultimate goal is to have the best project. Ann said
she feels the corrugated material is more appropriate.
Brian said he can support Michael's decision to table the item.
Michael said he could support the walkway as constructed other than the
flaring that staff has identified. The change in the roof is a different
situation.
Brian said possibly in HPC's view the copper might be a better roof.
Michael said he is concerned about the process that was used and he doesn't
want to invite architects to take a broad view of what their interpretation of
the guidelines are. They should confirm their interpretation with staff.
Kris Church, owner said we have been through a lengthy process and we
really appreciate all your time. In our meetings even with the light fixtures
Dave as been concerned with the entire process in trying to keep it in line.
We do apologize but the contractors said the copper would be a better roof
with the copper standing seam. We thought we were giving a better quality
to the house and a good look and it is on the alley and on the new part. The
brick for the steps is reclaimed brick.
Sarah, Brian and Ann relayed that they are adamant about the stairs.
Sarah pointed out that every project that comes before the HPC is unique.
Brian reminded the board that the roof material is on new construction.
Corrugated systems are not as good as standing seam. If our purpose is to
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help preserve the historic resources we have a better chance with a standing
seam roof which is a higher quality.
Dave said through the 90's rusted corrugated was the material of choice for
metal roofs. Now we are having a glut of zinc and we like the copper
because it is timeless. Copper is a ready available material throughout
history and patinas to an innocuous brown.
MOTION: Sarah moved to amend the resolution approving 214 E. Bleeker
with the following condition:
1. Brick stairs be removed and the stone stairs be replaced to match
what was in our approved resolution. The stone should match the
stone coursing on the foundation.
2. The copper standing seam roof remains on the new addition as
currently proposed.
3. Realigned walkway approved as built per the Parks Department. The
reclaimed brick is OK.
Motion second by Brian.
Brian, yes; Sarah, yes; Michael, no. Ann, no.
Motion failed 2-2.
MOTION: Ann moved to continue 214 E. Bleeker until January 28`"; second
by Michael. All in favor, motion carried.
GREENWALD PAVILION -FINAL REVIEW -CONTINUED
PUBLIC HEARING
Nora was seated.
Amy said at the last meeting there were a number of issues such as fire
access and the discovery of a significant utility easement that would push the
tent location back. There was discussion also about the tent size and that it
had increased in height from conceptual. The meeting was continued until
the issues were reviewed. In the staff memo the only condition of approval
is related to the landscaping. There is a proposal to create a landscape
barrier across the back of the tent to soften it from the neighbors across the
way with a row of Aspen trees. Staff has concerns that the proposal is a
little bit unnatural. Staff and monitor and the Parks Dept. can work with the
applicant on the placement of the trees as a condition.
Jim Curtis represented the Aspen Institute.
ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION
MINUTES OF JANUARY 14, 2009
Joede Schoeberlein, architect on the project.
Jim Curtis said the new tent center of the roof is below what the old tent was
and it is 20 feet even and the five points go up to 25.6. At P& Z there was a
discussion about the location of the tent on or off the utility easement.
Basically this would be a city council decision. We would also like to keep
the tent color white with a white mesh. The critical issue is whether the tent
is off the easement or on the easement.
Planning & Zoning, the Water dept. and Sanitation District are in favor of
the placement of the tent directly to the south of the main utility easement.
The tent would be two feet behind the easement and the tent is located
parallel to the easement and we have landscaped the back side.
Joede said the existing tent is 20.3 feet. The new tent is 3 inches below that
at 20 feet even and the five peaks go up to 25.6. We were able to
accomplish the height reduction by reducing the width from 60 feet to 55
feet.
P&Z recommended the location off the easement parallel to the easement.
Nora said the Bayer landscaping is intentional throughout the campus and
open to the community. The landscape around the tent needs to be sensitive
to the community and not hidden by a row of trees. Possibly use a berm as
opposed to a wall of trees. The back side of the tent is an opportunity to do
something unique. Jim said the Institute agrees with Nora's philosophy.
Joede said originally the entire mesa area was tree free and the trees have
grown naturally because of the irrigation. On the front side we would
something similar to what was planted around the marble garden where
aspen trees are used to form an edge and also that the irrigation ditches
would be woven through them. It would be a simple arc of trees on the edge
of the gravel entry area and the back would acknowledge a more natural
condition on the back.
Chairperson, Michael Hoffman opened the public hearing.
Fred Pierce, attorney representing the neighbor across the river who looks at
the back side of the tent. The existing tent sits on the easement. One
proposal is to move it back and closer to my clients. We would like the
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ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION
MINUTES OF JANUARY 14, 2009
location on the easement with an asphalt pad. My client doesn't want a wall
of vegetation but we do want landscaping that softens it. We are in no way
suggesting that the tent not be there we just feel it should be pushed to the
front of the property. A white tent might be stark and not fit in with the
environment.
Paul Taddune, attorney for Pitkin Reserve. Paul echoed Fred's remarks as
their concerns are identical. Paul pointed out that the P& Z followed the
recommendation of the Water Dept. Easements in the city are always
getting torn up. Alternative A is off the easement. It would be helpful if
you invited the neighbors to the table to discuss the landscaping. The front
of the tent should be somewhat open. If the tent could be a little less white it
wouldn't stand out as much.
Chairperson Michael Hoffman closed the public hearing.
Ann pointed out that regarding the historic context either location works.
Keeping it off the easement might avoid future problems. In terms of the
landscaping the front design works very well. The lineup of trees in the
back seems a little formal and you would be better off with a grove of
aspens.
Sarah concurred with Ann's comments. Maybe the berm becomes a nice
place to sit. The white mesh is on the two end walls and the front and not
the north facing on the back.
Michael said he feels either location is OK.
Nora said she would like to see a site plan of the landscaping. Sarah agreed.
MOTION: Ann moved to approve Resolution #2 for the Greenwald Pavilion
with the representation that either location of the tent is acceptable. Staff
and monitor will work with Jim Curtis on the landscape plan to be presented
to the HPC. The neighbors will be invited to the meeting on the landscape
plan. The proposed tent as represented in the plans Exhibit A is approved.
Motion second by Sarah. All in favor, motion carried 5-0.
Monitor for the tent -Ann
Monitor for the Auditorium -Michael
ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION
MINUTES OF JANUARY 14, 2009
426 E. Main Street (Galena & Main) Substantial Amendment
Public Hearing
Sara explained that the building is a mixed use building being constructed on
the corner. The applicant would like to change the material that was
approved by HPC. They would like to switch out the architectural metal that
was approved for the corner piece with stucco panels. There will be two
tones of stucco, one for the fapade that faces the street and another tone for
inside the balconies. Staff is in favor of the change. The corner piece is
successful and there is already stucco on the rear of the building so we are
not introducing a whole new type of material to the material palate of the
building.
Dave Ritchie, Poss and Architects
Dave said before they had a metal screen that was standing outside the
building envelope. For cost reasons it has become very difficult to do that
and we would like to take the wall material that already exists behind the
screen and reconfigure the surfaces a little bit to recapture some of the
presence and character of the metal screen element. The windows would
remain the dark brown.
Brian said he is somewhat skeptical of stucco and would like assurance that
the construction method is acceptable. Dave said this is a fine stone system
that is actually a three coat on a cement board as opposed to an eps soft
back. It is far more durable and a long lasting system. My fear is that the
stucco would detract from one of the most prominent buildings in town, the
court house. Stepping away from the metal might tone down the building
where you aren't competing as much with the court house.
Sarah said the mass has also changed.
Ann said she feels the change is an acceptable solution.
Michael said the change won't detract from the historic court house.
Sara explained that the change is in the corner element and it is recessed in
the plan. Dave said essentially the height and mass is the same.
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Brian said with the stucco potentially we are moving into the same family of
materials. The metal was really great and created the corner element and
broke up the materials.
Ann said after the explanation and the reveal and the fact that it looks
smaller it is an acceptable solution.
Nora said the scheme feels as though it is a little more modest.
Sarah commented that the new massing is better. The change in material is
inappropriate and against our guidelines 6.59 and 6.60 and 6.61. This is a
downtown location and stucco is an inexpensive material to be used on the
corner of a prominent building especially the color choice of red. The entire
building is red. The new form has been minimized which means the amount
of metal has been minimized which helps the cost concern. I feel we are
losing value and an important material on the corner of this building. Stucco
is more of a background material.
Brian commented that he has reservations on the stucco and agreed that it is
a filler material.
Ann pointed out that the reveal is there but the color might be a little harsh.
In combination with the other materials it is somewhat minimized.
Sarah said if the HPC chooses stucco we would need to have a mockup of
the color. A darker color would be more successful than the red. You will
notice that this is a thin material.
Dave said the darker color is already installed on the north side of the
building.
Sarah reiterated that the stucco is not the appropriate material for this
building.
Michael said he could support a continuance so that we can see a mockup.
Dave said there is a mockup in the building. Dave said the concept is to
have three strong material elements. Brick on the Main Street side,
metal/now stucco on the corner element and the bush hammered stone with
the water table base stone which references the court house.
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Bill Poss explained that the clients have asked us to look at keeping the costs
down. This is the best solution that we could come up with. A lot of the
materials are installed and this is the last. Windows are ordered and the
water table is installed. The brick on the Main Street side is also installed.
Nora pointed out that the corner of the building is a very important corner in
town.
Bill said if we go to stucco we can save between $70,000 to $80,000.
Sarah asked if a bronze sheet metal could be used.
Dave said for the size of the area it really needs to be a composite and a
stiffer panel. Bill said we have explored everything.
MOTION: Sarah moved that the form as presented tonight is approved and
that the applicant come back to us with some alternate material options for
the corner that fit more with our guidelines 6.59, 6.60 and 6.61. Motion
second by Michael.
Bill explained if they are delayed two weeks it is a $50,000 decision. We
would like to go forward with some recommendation.
Amended motion.
1. Keep the current design and materials as approved.
2. New massing with the approved metal materials.
3. New massing with an alternate new exterior material to be approved
by staff and monitor.
Michael amended his second. All in favor of the motion and amended
motion.
Amy pointed out that the HPC is comfortable with staff and monitor picking
a new exterior material.
Main Street pedestrian improvements -work session - no minutes
316 E. Hopkins Ave. -work session - no minutes.
MOTION: Michael moved to adjourn; second by Sarah: All_in favor,
~/ ~..- ~
motion carried. Meeting adjourned at 8:30 p.m. ~-'"`^~L~ ~~,~~
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