HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.apz.20100105City Planning; & Zoning Meeting -Minutes - JanuarY05, 2010
COMMENTS ...........................................................................2
MINUTES ...............................................................................3
CONFLICTS OF INTEREST .......................................................3
CODE AMENDMENTS ..................................................................................3
SIGN CODE AMENDMENTS ......................................................8
ELECTION OF CHAIR & VICE CHAIR ........................................9
City Planning & Zoning Meeting -Minutes -January O5, 2010
LJ Erspamer opened the regular meeting in Sister Cities Meeting Room at 4:30pm.
Commissioners present were Jasmine Tygre, Michael Wampler, Cliff Weiss, Bert
Myrin, Brian Speck, Stan Gibbs, LJ Erspamer and Jim DeFrancia. Staff present
were Jim True, Special Counsel; Chris Bendon and Drew Alexander, Community
Development; Jackie Lothian, Deputy City Clerk.
Bert Myrin distributed the holiday construction hours from the Aspen Times; he
said that it seemed to him that the construction hours were supposed to be for the
resort area and the north rooms of the Hotel Jerome were adjacent to an area that
was exempted. Myrin asked if there was a way to include the space adjacent to the
hotel which also happens to be the neighborhood that he lives in. Cliff Weiss
asked who put this in action in the first place. Chris Bendon replied City
Engineering. Myrin wanted to know why was there a carve out for this area and if
it was just an oversight was there a way to change it. Bendon encouraged Myrin to
speak with engineering.
Myrin asked about the blanks in future calendars. Chris Bendon said that April 6tn
was not on the schedule but it should be a regular meeting.
Brian Speck asked where the ethical handbook came from. Jackie Lothian replied
that was from the attorney. Bert Myrin asked if there were examples that were not
in there that the attorneys had difficult times making decisions on. Jim True
replied that questions often come up about the P&Z Commissioner residing within
300 feet of an applicant; you have to leave the room. LJ Erspamer asked if you
could hire an attorney. Jim True said that you could have someone representing
you; it depends on the nature of the issue; you are allowed if you redevelop your
house, you can have people represent on your behalf and you may even do it
yourself; if it's your personal house. Myrin said there were certain gifts that were
appropriate in the city as home rule that are not appropriate in the state; the state
has more stringent requirements. True said that the gifts issue was a tough one, an
example that we use is that Council does accept entrance into food and wine,
which is a theoretically a valuable gift but it is felt that it serves a significant
purpose to the City to have its elected officials participating in an event of that
nature. True said that if someone is providing a gift out of the ordinary you should
be very cautious.
Stan Gibbs asked if P&Z judges an issue and we want to testify before Council if
that was allowed. True replied that he actually thinks that it is allowed; it has
happened before and someone will show up and Council will inquire as to the
position or position as a whole; he didn't think that there was a problem with that.
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City Planning & Zoning Meeting -Minutes -January OS 2010
Bendon said that they usually ask commissioners to clarify whether they are
commenting on behalf of the entire commission or if just as a neighbor and not on
behalf of the commission.
MOTION: Bert Myrin moved to approve the minutes from December 1 S, 2009,
seconded by Brian Speck; all in favor, APPROVED
CONFLICTS OF INTEREST
None stated.
CONTINUED PUBLIC HEARING (12/15/09):
CODE AMENDMENTS -TEMPORARY OUTDOOR FOOD VENDING
SIGNAGE. PUBLIC AMENITY SPACE
LJ Erspamer opened the continued public on the Code Amendments. Chris
Bendon said the Main Street Sign and Banner was back on for tonight, then the
Outdoor Merchandising and lastly to start dra8ing amendments to the sign code.
Brian Speck said that there was neon on the whole top deck of the Dancing Bear.
Drew Alexander said the changed language was on page 13. Alexander reiterated
that Kathryn Koch has had this on her agenda for quite a while. Alexander said it
was a pretty simple change; the current purpose statement repeats what is in the
eligibility section and there was some strange language that they cleaned up as
well. Alexander said that they clarified between meetings with Jim True and there
was a recurring statement on page 11 that mentioned "recurring annual events"
was taken out and replaced with local non-profit organizations but kept the element
of "significant interest of the community". Jim True said that there was concern
for making sure that the events that use banners are important for a large segment
of the local community as opposed to various national events that may or may not
be appropriate for this community. True said it had "content neutral" to apply with
freedom of speech issues; it's as simple as if it's a local political event then you
can have a banner. Cliff Weiss said that the edibility reads that you have to be
non-profit and local; he didn't think that the X-Games were local. True said that if
it was considered significant to a large segment of the community, it applied.
Erspamer said that's what he would like to see defined. True responded that it was
hard to define and would be hard to argue that the community doesn't support the
X-Games or the Broncos but there might be other things the community might not
support and puts us in a close area addressing content but they were trying to do it
where it was constitutional but what we believe the community wants. Weiss said
it was at the discretion of the City Manager, which was interesting. True replied
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City Planning & Zoning Meeting -Minutes -January O5, 2010
that was for flags. Erspamer asked if something does happen and then there was a
national event that discredits that group; can the City Manager take those flags
down and refund their money at his discretion. True said there was a difference
between flags and banners; the discretion of the City Manager is for the flags
(country flags). Bendon said the flags were on public property and the sign code
addressed everything on private property. Stan Gibbs asked if it would make sense
to change the "significant to a large segment" to "just events that are considered
relevant to the community". Gibbs said that relevance was easier to define. True
said that he had no objection to the word "relevant". Weiss said that he liked
"relevant". Jim DeFrancia said that the language can't be drafted in a manner that
is so perfect but if we have a reasonable guideline that's what we are trying to do.
Myrin said the old code had significant years or anniversaries; so was the tenth and
every year after that; so if anon-profit was significant for the first 10 years then
they could put up banners up every year after but if they were not they could not;
he asked what the intent was. True replied the intent is that if you made your 10th
anniversary you can apply for your 11th also. True said it was written that you
could only have banners on significant anniversaries and a year or so ago there was
a request for the 59th anniversary because it wasn't really their 60`h but they were
starting their 60th early. Myrin stated that it was very nice that Kathryn Koch has
been doing this for all these years and understands the problem. Weiss said
increments of 5 years after 10 years; otherwise there were a lot ofnon-profits that
were 10 years old. True responded that was what it was before and some
anniversaries may not be on the 5th or 10th for whatever reason someone was doing
something significant for it and that's why that was changed. Bendon said that
Kathryn has been taking all of the odd year issues to City Council and Council
asked why they were looking at these again; so this language will fix the issue of
odd years.
Drew Alexander explained that Outdoor Merchandising was incorporated with
Public Amenity; page 15 #9. "Commercial Activity. No area of a building site
designated as a required public amenity space under this Section shall be used for
any commercial activity, including but not limited to the storage, display and
merchandising of goods and services provided, however, that the prohibition of
this Paragraph shall not apply when such use is in conjunction with permitted
commercial activity on an abutting right-of--way or is otherwise permitted by the
City. For outdoor food vending in the Commercial Core District, also see
Paragraph 26.470.040.B3, Administrative growth management review."
Alexander said this was a direct conflict with what the town was doing in response
to the code because there was plenty of outdoor merchandising going on in public
amenity space in 2009 so the direction received from Council was to make this
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City Planning & Zoning Meeting -Minutes -January O5, 2010
flexible and create language that does allow it and on page 17 there was some
revised code language that adapts to that direction. "Public amenity areas may be
utilized for merchandising purposes by those businesses located adjacent to and on
the same parcel as the amenity space. This shall not grant transient sales from
peddlers who are not associated with an adjacent commercial operation. In
addition, outdoor merchandising must meet the following requirements".
Alexander said there were 5 requirements under this section: it shall be maintained,
orderly and located in front of or approximate to the storefront (20 feet back from
the right-of--way); the display of merchandise shall in no way inhibit the movement
of pedestrian traffic along the public right-of--way; the size and amount of
merchandise allowed is at the discretion of the property owner (the landlord is the
one granting the size of the close rack); umbrellas, canopies and similar devices are
not allowed for outdoor merchandising; no area of a building site is designated as
required public amenity space under section shall be used for the overnight or long
term storage of merchandise this includes an exception of the Farmer's Market.
Alexander said the final change was for outdoor restaurant seating and deleted a
large clause.
Cliff Weiss said that public amenity area may be utilized. Chris Bendon responded
that was private property but it was called public amenity space and it was not
rights-of--way such as sidewalks or streets, which were public property. Bendon
said they also may introduce a width requirement for the entrance to a building;
engineering uses 5 or 6 feet sidewalk clear space. Stan Gibbs said that egress must
be maintained through the public amenity space. Gibbs asked to what extent
outdoor merchandising was permitted on any public property. Bendon replied that
the Farmer's Market and through special event licenses; outdoor restaurant seating
in the malls in the summer was issued by CCLC. Bendon said that also through
vending licenses which go through City Council or the City Manager. Bert Myrin
asked if the bicycles outside of the HLJB was on private property, public amenity
space and the bronze statues on Cooper; did they have to come in at night and he
liked the idea of things coming in at night. LJ Erspamer asked Bert if the statutes
livened up the mall area.
Drew Alexander said the definition of storage was storage for merchandise; you
can't put out merchandise in public amenity space without the ability to be able to
purchase the merchandise. Bendon said the outdoor merchandising has to be
active merchandising. Alexander summarized that under "g" merchandise needs to
be cleaned up to "no merchandise in the public right-of--way and egress for front
entrances and exits must be maintained. The commission asked what the Fire
Marshall thought about the egress.
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City Planning & Zoning Meeting -Minutes -January O5, 2010
Chris Bendon asked if the commission wanted to see this language again. Bendon
said that they would revise the language in the form of a resolution and email it out
to everyone. Bendon said if there are questions they will bring them back.
Drew Alexander distributed a photo from the gondola. The third code Amendment
was for temporary outdoor food vending found in the Growth Management Section
of the Land Use Code. Alexander said that in 2009 there was a lot of interest in
this (page 7 of the memo) but just a handful of people establish their carts and
operated their businesses mainly because the rules and regulations are a little strict
and staff presented Council with the current language and staff was given
direction. The primary changes were the duration of the permit; the locations that
a food vending cart could be set up and some minor things like signage
requirements and fees. Alexander said that you were able to receive a 6 month
permit but there wasn't any discussion; you take a day off and have another 6
month permit. The locations have been expanded to include the Commercial Core
but also the Commercial Lodge and Gondola Plaza. The Commercial Lodge was a
pretty small zone district in the city within arcades at the North of Nell, Aspen
Square and the Residences. Weiss said that Gondola Plaza would not work in the
winter because skiers were coming down. Bendon said the Ski Company would
have the say if they were interested in doing this as well as adjacent businesses
approval. Gibbs said that the cart should be operated from a fixed location.
Michael Wampler asked what was keeping the retailer from charging rent; he
objected to this because these 6 month vendors could skip payment of not only rent
but also taxes. Bendon said that this had to be on private property so you have to
talk to that property owner; it's just not setting up in front another coffee shop; you
have to also obtain the approvals of the adjacent businesses. LJ Erspamer asked
what is adjacent. Bendon said on all three sides. Erspamer said "immediately
adjacent".
Weiss said under #3 there was one run-on sentence and asked if temporary use of
outdoor food vending was only by a restaurants or retailers. Alexander responded
that section was not changed in the existing language it read that just restaurants
and retailers. Weiss asked about the snow cone shop by Radio the snowboard shop
and if they were related. Alexander replied no. Weiss said that staff wanted to
limit it to a restaurant or some kind of concession of a restaurant where a retailer is
already paying for bricks and mortar and you have to be one of those 2 things or
you are not going to get a food vending license. Bendon said that when this was
done 7 or 8 years ago that was the desire and no massage chairs or something else.
Gibbs said that as a retailer you could have someone on your property that you felt
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City Planning & Zoning Meeting -Minutes -January O5, 2010
attracted them to you and so it might be good for the retailer. Michael Wampler
replied that it would be great if the landlords felt that way. Bendon said the reason
they put that the landlords and adjacent businesses (tenants) had to approve was
because it would be between businesses and businesses and staff. The
commissioners agreed to letting the arcades allow the number of carts. Myrin
asked to include Obermeyer in the district. Jasmine Tygre said that you can't just
include part of the SCI Zone and not another part; if you open SCI again the same
issues will come up as they have over the last 15-20 years or more.
Gibbs and the commission agreed to striking by "a restaurant or retailer" just on
private property on page 9.
Alexander said that the 6 months language was taken out and created a beginning
date and an ending date and created a requirement that at the end of this period the
operation shall be subject to review by the City Clerk and Community
Development to make sure that it meets the criteria.
Alexander said that in the fee section it was made clear that the operator shall be
assessed the current fees listed in the land use code. The area includes the cart and
the area for the operator to stand.
Alexander said the size of the sign that can be installed shall be the lesser of 50%
of the surface area of the front of the cart or 6 square feet. Alexander said that
food carts in locations with no visibility along the public right-of--way shall be
allowed on sandwich board sign; so if in an arcade you could put out a sandwich
board sign. Erspamer said as long as it doesn't impede pedestrian traffic in the
right-of--way. Bendon said that they will have a discussion about the sign code in
general; independent of what we do with the sign code on sandwich boards do you
want these vending carts the ability to have sandwich boards; this will take place in
the sign code revisions.
Erspamer said if they were going to have a trash can then they should have some
form of recycling.
Myrin asked if someone wanted to create food vending on the parking lot behind
Boogie's would there be affordable housing requirements. Myrin asked if the Ute
City Restaurant put a food cart in front of their 2 new restaurants would there be
any affordable housing mitigation required. Bendon answered no to both as long
as they were in compliance within 50 square feet. Myrin said the Popcorn Wagon
should have the same rules apply as any other business because it is not on wheels,
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City Planning & Zoning Meeting -Minutes -January O5, 2010
there were tables, chair and a fire pit and it is a permanent business; should it not
have the same requirements as someone else who has that permanent business.
Public Comments:
1. David Schoenberger, public, said that what Bert was talking about gets into
little a dangerous area when you ask someone to provide employee housing
with only a 6 month permit.
Bendon said that there were a lot of corrections to this resolution; is the
commission okay with staff making these amendments and just do a review by
email.
MOTION: Jim DeFrancia moved to approve Resolution #001-10; seconded by
Michael Wampler. Roll call vote: Weiss, yes; Speck, yes; Wampler, yes; Gibbs,
yes; Myrin, yes; DeFrancia, yes; Erspamer, yes; APPROVED 7-0.
Chris Bendon said that staff would like to hear if there was anything that the
commissioners would like to amend in the sign code. Bendon said that the sign
code was very inordinately complicated and a point of fiustration for staff was
when a business comes in and there are existing businesses with signs; there is an
aggregate sign area so the size of the new business sign depends on the size of
everyone else's sign so the new business has to go and measure the sign area.
Bendon said that staff would look at this sign code as simplified as possible.
Weiss said that the City had some pretty stringent sign code rules; no neon was
allowed. Weiss said that the City was trying to downplay garish and to some
degree some things have relaxed since the 70's when there were little signs. Myrin
said that McStorlie's sign and each letter was large and ran a 20 foot length and to
somehow address that large of a sign. Erspamer said that it would not be the width
of each letter but the length by the width of the entire sign. Alexander said that
they do draw a line around the entire sign. Bendon noted there was a difference
between window signs and store signs. Gibbs said that his question was the
difference between signs that are on the bricks and the signs in the windows.
Gibbs asked what was a window display and what was a sign. Bendon said there
was a different provision for window displays. Bendon asked the commission if
they wanted staff to look at more conservative window displays. The
commissioners except for Bert agreed with more conservative windows displays.
Myrin said that the national vendors plan those displays for the whole country and
probably plan them to meet sign codes for as many cities as they can. Gibbs said
that if they want to do business here they have to come up with a new sign here.
Weiss said it was the way McDonald's blended into this community; they had to
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City Planning & Zoning Meeting -Minutes -January O5, 2010
do something unique for Aspen. Bendon asked the commissioners to look around
at window displays between now and the next sign code hearing; some are very
nice.
MOTION: Jim DeFrancia moved the public hearing on the sign code to March 2,
2010, seconded by Cliff Weiss. All in favor, APPROVED.
OTHER BUSINESS -ELECTION OF OFFICERS -
MOTION.~ Jim DeFrancia moved to continue with the same officers, seconded by
Bert Myrin.
MOTION: Cliff Weiss moved to nominate Stan Gibbs as chair, Bert Myrin
seconded. Secret ballot vote: Stan Gibbs, 4; LJErspamer 3. Stan Gibbs is the
new chair.
MOTION: Michael Wampler moved to nominate LJErspamer as vice-chair,
seconded by Bert Myrin. Jim DeFrancia nominated Cliff Weiss for vice-chair,
seconded by Bert Myrin seconded. Secret ballot vote: LJErspamer, 4; Cliff Weiss
3. LJErspamer elected as vice-chair.
Adjourned at 6:50 pm.
Deputy City Clerk
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