HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.apz.20100316Aspen Planning & Zoning Commission -Minutes March 16, 2010
Aspen Valley Hospital: Phase II, 401 Castle Creek -Final PUD and associated
land use reviews (cont'd from 3/2) 2
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Aspen Planning & Zoning Commission -Minutes March 16, 2010
Chairperson, Stan Gibbs called the meeting to order at 4:45 p.m.
Commissioners in attendance: Stan Gibbs, Bert Myrin, LJ Erspamer and Cliff
Weiss. Excused were Michael Wampler, Jasmine Tygre, Jim DeFrancia and Brian
Speck.
Staff present: Jim True, Special Counsel
Jennifer Phelan, Deputy Planning Director
Kathy Strickland, Chief Deputy Clerk
Aspen Valley Hospital: Phase II, 401 Castle Creek -Final PUD and
associated land use reviews (cont'd from 3/2)
Stan Gibbs opened the continued public hearing. Jennifer Phelan stated that the
agenda item is a continuation of Phase II of the Aspen Valley Hospital master
facilities plan. At the March 3`d hearing the commission was provided background
information on the conceptual approval; a review of the improvements for Phase
II; and there was the opportunity for the P&Z to raise questions so that information
could be provided tonight. The memo provides answers to a number of topics such
as affordable housing, the hospital component, transportation and some general
questions.
Russ Sedmak, architect presented further details of the design intent of the
affordable housing units, materials, massing and roof design (power point
presentation). The floor plan drawings represented the eastern edge of the
development only. The other units showing the L shaped configuration are not
shown. Russ focused on what the parameters are and how they relate to the entry
components, stairs and roof overhangs and grading. Russ explained that they are
still in the process of determining the staggering of the units so the power point is
different than what is in the packets. The concept and number of units are still
relatively the same. We have attempted to create studio units that are three levels
on the ends of the courtyard with one bedroom units staggered in three modules
that are basically three stories tall. There are additional units above garages.
On the first floor of the housing design the entries are all at the eastern side or the
courtyard side, the common area and then you come into the kitchen zone. The
units are a little more than 500 square feet. On the one bedrooms you have 500+
living area with an entry and a bedroom and bath configuration. The units on the
site are designed to take advantage of as much exposure for southern daylight to
come into the living areas as possible. It also helps to stagger the units creating
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Aspen Planning & Zoning Commission -Minutes March 16, 2010
more of an undulating fapade for the buildings. With the design we are utilizing
central stair and landing components that reach the upper levels of the building,
second floor in particular so that the entries are in between the units. This also
eliminates the number of stairs that would be needed. The roof design has an
overhang of 2 YZ feet which means that the stairways between each unit are
essentially 2/3 covered by the overhang. At the last meeting we discussed the
practicality of having flat roofs. The popup corners help relate to the exterior
architecture of the building so that we are not completely dealing with flat boxes
on the site. There is a slight slope down into the center drain of each of the
modules to collect snow and rain. Throughout the city there are numerous
examples of flat roofs that are used. We have tuck under parking in some of the
buildings and not in others. There is also surface parking and space in the parking
structure for up to 8 of the housing units. There are 14 garages for the housing
development itself and we feel it is the right combination in reducing the amount
of surface parking on the site and not taking away the needs of the hospital.
The site is sloped and we have a 9 foot difference in grade from the entry point of
Whitcomb terrace on the west to the entry point in the far end units that have the
garages underneath them. We cannot lower the buildings anymore.
Jason, Design Workshop, said what exist in the parking area is a large loop that
currently has 28 parking spaces. In its place we propose 30 spaces. The garages
park 14 cars and we have 8 units that are allocated to the parking structure.
Materials:
Russ Sedmak stated that a material will be applied to the flat portion as well of the
raised portion of the roofs that is a seamless covering similar to that of the hospital.
The product allows for a profile to be utilized that basically mimics a standing
seam metal roof even though it is a poly type product. We also have the option to
change the color and possibly we will vary the colors of the roofs. Hardy
board batten is a material selection and the upper panel would be a smooth surface
that creates variation in the overall look of the massing of the building. The color
hasn't been chosen but will be neutral and the idea is a lighter color on the base
and a greenish to slate on the upper portion of the building. Light colored accents
would be on the fascia.
The stairs are a combination of heavy timber stringer with expanded metal treads
to help with slip resistance. The balcony railings will be light and airy, horizontal
and a very thin line.
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Aspen Planning & Zoning Commission -Minutes March 16, 2010
LJ Erspamer asked if the applicant intended to use heat tape on the roofs and if
they conversed with the Alps which has had drainage problems. Russ said he
didn't feel there was necessarily a need for the heat tape and they haven't talked
with anyone at the Alps. Russ explained that the roofs drain internally.
LJ also asked about the cover that prevents snow and ice dripping onto the stairs
and balconies. Russ said the overhang is about 30 inches wide that will partially
cover the stairs.
LJ said 8 people will be parking in the garage. Where do they park when
unloading groceries etc. Russ said the surface parking lot has two additional
spaces and it is our feeling that two or four spaces could be assigned as short term
parking to be used between Whitcomb terrace and the housing development so that
there is ample parking.
LJ asked John Kruger, transportation, if a traffic analysis report has been prepared.
John said a traffic study has been worked on and a TDM plan was worked on with
the hospital. Staff has worked with the hospital on the plan and we are still
working through the issues to finalize it.
Cliff asked if the location of the parking has changed anything with Whitcomb
terrace and the issue that the residents of Whitcomb terrace might have a further
distance to walk. Russ said there are only two or three residents that drive.
Cliff asked if the raised portion of the roof encompassed a vaulted ceiling on the
inside. Russ said they won't necessarily have vaulted ceilings. The final design
and fabrication will be completed by a modular housing company. We are not sure
of the premium that would be paid for the vaulted ceilings. We had contemplated
the vaulted ceiling with additional window area above but we need to be sensitive
about light pollution and we don't want to over glaze the building.
Cliff pointed out that 7`" and Main has large yellow panels of hardy plank with
staggered seams about 4 x 8 and the panels are warping. The material selected
worries me but I do understand design wise you are breaking up the fagade. We
need to find out if 7`" and Main is have difficulty with the panels.
Russ said he will look at the panels and the joints.
Stan Gibbs asked what the increase in parking was.
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Aspen Planning & Zoning Commission -Minutes March 16, 2010
Leslie Lamont, AVH representative said currently there are 175 parking spaces
onsite which does not include Whitcomb terrace which has 28 parking spaces.
Stan said we are going to 209 in the parking garage, 98 on the surface for the
hospital area.
Leslie pointed out that the 98 spaces are for the total end of phase IV. At the end
of phase II we will have 469 parking spaces.
Stan said at the last meeting Cliff asked about the buffer between the garage and
the fagade of the hospital. Russ said they could submit a detailed drawing on how
the planter is going to work in that location for the record.
Stan said what he would like is a detailed drawing when you are standing on the
surface of the parking garage looking at the hospital, what would you see.
Cliff said he brought up the question and the concern is if you were a patient in the
hospital what are you looking out at. How can we make it more attractive for the
patients.
Bert thanked staff for including the letters of conceptual. One of the questions was
about the bus stop on Castle Creek Rd being moved off the road.
Jennifer said Karen Ryman wrote the letter and her concern is how the drop off of
patients works. Staff has been meeting with Engineering and the Transportation
Dept. and RFTA and the AVH team to come up with as best as possible solutions
for improvements in the RFTA bus stop area. Service will be the same; you can
ask for a stop and be dropped off. With regard to the improvements we are looking
at turning radiuses of the buses to safely be able to turn and not turn into oncoming
traffic. There are some changes being proposed to the pedestrian path.
Leslie said most importantly the bus stop will be lengthened so that two buses can
cue behind each other and they will be set back out of the travel of Doolittle Drive.
Bert asked if the bus plan will be included in the resolution. Leslie Lamont said at
final there will be an exhibit of the plan that will be recorded with the ordinance.
Bert also asked if there should be something in the P&Z resolution about 8
affordable housing units parking in the garage. Jennifer said she can include that
in the final resolution.
Aspen Planning & Zoning Commission -Minutes March 16, 2010
Bert asked about the affordable housing rentals and what happens if they are rented
to anon-hospital employee. Jennifer explained that the leases are a minimum of
six months. If they were to rent to anon-hospital employee the soonest that they
could put a new hospital employee in would be the end of the six month term.
Bert said on the power point the handicapped access units were not identified.
Russ explained where the units are.
Bert said another concern is that the tallest part of the building was accented. Why
are we making something taller that already appears to be three stories. Russ said
we are only talking about four feet and it isn't on all the units. When you look up
at the building from the bike path and roof if all the roofs were flat it would be a
less interesting architecture so we were trying to create some variation. Bert said
it seems odd that the highest parts of the buildings are getting higher.
Bert said at the last meeting one of the questions was related to the Truscott project
and was there anything learned from that project.
Jason said the three primary things taken away from the process of Truscott has to
do with the visibility of the color and screening of the units. A lot of what
happened, particularly phase II was the coloration of the buildings and the
proximity of those buildings both to the entry road to the golf course and the fact
that it is right on the 18th green. It is right across from the club house and is a
dramatically different style of architecture and it really jumps out. They were
originally painted bright colors. The response was immediately negative to those
colors. The sample board with the slate gray and then off white are receding
neutral colors. The city added screening plant material to Truscott and made a
point to purchase larger plant materials. The open area where the drainage is we
can add a lot of screening plant materials. We can't hid the buildings from the
road but we can take advantage of the area between the road and trail and the trail
up to the units to plant plant materials as much as we can.
Stan opened the public hearing. There were no public comments. The public
hearing portion of the agenda item was closed. Stan excused himself at 5:50 p.m.
Bert asked if the planting plan or idea of plantings be incorporated in the
resolution. A recommendation on screening should be included since this is the
Castle Creek Valley. Most things up there currently recede into the wilderness.
LJ said trees should not be planted in front of the windows.
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Aspen Planning & Zoning Commission -Minutes March 16, 2010
Jim True said we have taken the position once a quorum has been established and a
person leaves it will not defeat the quorum. In order for this to move forward it
would have to be a unanimous vote. Jim pointed out that the board could continue
the meeting on a 2-1 vote.
Comments and questions:
Bert discussed flat roofs and why in affordable housing they look like stacked
trailers whereas the Little Nell time share has a flat roof and they have a whole
different look.
Russ said they looked at putting the units together in a more traditional fashion
where the roofs slope down in both directions to try to minimize the overall height.
We felt having a combination of roofs would add interest to the design. We tried
to define residential modules that look like they are part of a village of houses. A
flat roof is a competent design for snow.
Bert inquired about the solar panels on the roof and how snow will be removed
from them in the winter. Russ said typically the collectors are mounted on a frame
work that is elevated.
Cliff Weiss said Russ this did not fall on deaf ears it was an architectural feature to
bump up that one comer; P&Z did not vote in conceptual to build affordable
housing but Council said that some affordable housing had to be built. Cliff said
that now the housing will be held to the Aspen Area Community Plan and the
standards that they have been successful with affordable housing versus
unsuccessful. Cliff said the community has made it clear that they want a certain
amount of quality but they don't want you to be able to hear your next door
neighbor flushes his toilet, that's not what Council wants P&Z to build. Cliff said
that he liked the bumped up architectural feature but he would say that needs to
have some glazing, vaulted ceilings for the living quarters as well as visually from
the outside. Cliff said that he was willing to live with the height because you are
giving us something that visually is attractive. Cliff complimented the applicant on
what P&Z had to say about snow mitigation on the roofs.
LJ Erspamer said that he was shocked that they showed a photo of the Aspen Alps
and what a nightmare with that style of roof but they make better products now to
take care of the roof. LJ asked if the height limitation kept the flat roof. Russ
replied there were some height limitations for the modular construction
methodology; we can work around that but we will probably be rendering the
architecture less interesting. Russ said that any hospital roof surface products have
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Aspen Planning & Zoning Commission -Minutes March 16, 2010
improved and the hospital has a high confidence level with the roof that will last 30
years as long as people aren't up there cutting holes in it. LJ said the flat roof with
the drain in the middle would cause problems in this climate and the building
department will decide what will be done. Russ replied that there will be an R-30
rated insulation in the attic space.
Cliff said there were lots of buildings in Aspen that have flat roofs; his concern
was with roofs where architects forget that snow is going to come down off these
roofs and land on somebody's head or a walkway. Cliff said the roof should not be
of concern. LJ asked if there were problems with the roof. Russ replied that it was
a 30 year product from an engineering standpoint and safety standpoint.
Bert asked about the white or light grey wood-like siding and above that was a
heavy looking product; he thought the design guidelines wanted just the opposite
with the heavy looking at the bottom. Jennifer replied that it was talking about
materials not colors. Bert asked if that met that material attempt at heavier
materials. Jennifer responded that it doesn't talk about colors. Russ replied the top
material was lighter because it was flat and could be perceived as a metallic
product and just a covering of the wall and the lower material was ribbed with a
vertical profile, which was an appropriate mix.
Bert asked about the population projections for AVH and the community in the
staff memo. Jennifer replied that they did not have population projections into the
future. Bert asked how something was built without having some concept of a
community standpoint of where the future's taking us. Cliff stated during
conceptual the hospital presented a great deal of information about outpatients
versus overnight patients; the number of births so it wasn't strictly population it
was the service that AVH thought they needed to provide and justified their phases
with each piece of floor area that they need. Cliff said that at conceptual AVH
discussed why they were building what they were building; they justified parking
and talked a lot about office space and how the medical profession would be
located there to a great extent. Cliff said that he was concerned about going there
again because to a great extent they have covered it. LJ agreed with Cliff. Bert
said that he was not here for that conceptual.
Bert asked if the 12,000 square feet of net leasable office space has been justified.
Jennifer answered yes at the conceptual it was approved at 22,600 for the medical
office space and the hospital is now looking at 27,000. Bert asked if the 27 was in
the resolution on page 9. Jennifer said the hospital is projecting what their needs
will be at Phase 3, which was 4400 square feet more. Jennifer said that the
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Aspen Planning & Zoning Commission -Minutes March 16, 2010
applicant was asking for final approval for Phase 2 and when they come for Phase
3 they will be asking to memorialize the 15,000 square feet that they were
approved for allotments from 2010.
Bert voiced concern for the affordable housing sitting half empty. Jennifer replied
that as an essential public facility the growth management section basically implies
that you need all of your allotments to move forward so the hospital was trying to
memorialize what they need from one allotment bucket. Jennifer suggested that
Dave speak to some of the issues brought up at Council that in 20 years down the
road we need more hospital how do we insure that the hospital stays where it is and
the hospital is thinking in the long term of some of the medical office space and
what could come down the road if there was a need for additional hospital space.
Bert said that his concern was just the opposite; what if we build too much.
Bert wanted to go through the resolution. Cliff asked why are you asking for 4400
additional square feet of medical office space; what justifies that. Dave Ressler
answered that the amount of programs and that amount of medical office space
program is built by each physician and every specialty of practice and the sum total
was 27,000. Dave Ressler said the reason that it increased by 4400 square feet was
in the original design but then they started moving hospital operations into the
medical office space, which was about 4400 square feet worth and he didn't realize
this at first and this is what is needed at this time. Cliff asked if they didn't project
the need, the demand for this space wouldn't be build. Dave answered absolutely.
Jennifer said that there may be some reworking of Section 6: Engineering. Cliff
suggested a little more glazing in the vaulted ceilings on the affordable housing.
Bert also wanted to see the screening in the resolution.
Jennifer said that the applicant was given approval at conceptual for a certain size
building. Dave Ressler noted that moving the parking structure 15 feet closer to
the building has given 15 more feet along that east side and taking out the 3 or 4
parking spaces on the deck and creating that notch that has given a little more
space there. Dave said that some of the limitations that they were up against were
things like site lines from the intersection going out on Castle Creek Road that
even these two evergreen trees and it becomes more challenging on the site and
they will plant with trees up the hill above the trail. Dave said all of that
compliments the clotting of the parking structure at that corner as well as the grade
that buries as you come up the hillside. Cliff asked the vertical grade from the road
to the parking garage.
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Aspen Planning & Zoning Commission -Minutes March 16, 2010
Bert said there would be a lot of surface parking between Phase 2 and Phase 3.
Jennifer replied that it would be over parked. Bert asked if it was possible to
remove some of that parking between the phases. Jennifer said that removing the
parking would be expensive and noted if they did not complete their Phases by the
end of the conceptual timeline then they would have to handle some of that over
parking. Bert wanted surface parking to be removed. Russ explained the parking
needed to stay for visitor and patient parking by the front door of the building,
which was the highest priority of parking on the site. Russ stated the majority of
the staff parking would go into the parking structure; some physician parking will
still be maintained on the site as is the case now because physicians need access to
the emergency room and surgery. Gideon Kaufinan said that when you have
construction traffic and trucks you don't want to have dust so there maybe is a
point in time if it doesn't go to the next phase then you look at it. Dave suggested
taking a look at what kind of environment it is presently. Jennifer agreed with
Gideon's timeline if all the phases weren't built.
Jennifer said that she would invite Engineering and Transportation to the next
meeting.
MOTION: ClifjWeiss moved to continue the hearing on Aspen Valley Hospital
Final to April 6`", seconded by Bert Myrin, all in favor, approved.
Gideon Kaufman said that he did not want to go through all of this again.
Adjourned.
transcribed by Kathy Strickland and Jackie Lothian
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