HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.hpc.20100922 ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION
MINUTES OF SEPTEMBER 22, 2010
Chairperson, Sarah Broughton called the meeting to order at 5:00 p.m.
Commissioners in attendance: Ann Mullins, Jay Maytin, Brian McNellis,
Nora Berko, Jason Lasser and Jamie McLeod.
Staff present: Jim True, Special Counsel
Amy Guthrie, Historic Preservation Officer
Sara Adams, Historic Preservation Planner
Kathy Strickland, Chief Deputy City Clerk
MOTION: Jay moved to approve the minutes of June 23 and July 14
second by Jamie. All in favor, motion carried.
Disclosure
Sarah will recuse herself on 525 E. Cooper — Broughton architects are
involved in the project next door.
525 E. Cooper Ave. — Public Hearing
Jay chaired 525 E. Cooper
Amy explained that last spring HPC approved a project which infilled the
front corner of the Aspen Grove building. The applicant demolished some
net leasable in the back and brought it to the front. The tenants that had
taken the space came in to ask for a door that they needed for their gallery
and during the discussion it was realized that the windows in that space were
not approved. In the packet the Cooper street facing elevation was built
according to plans. The courtyard was not built according to plan. Facing
the courtyard there were supposed to be three fixed windows and one
narrower. The narrow window is in place but where the two large fixed
windows were there is a door and two smaller windows. The door was
desired by the tenant but it is also a building code issue. Dana Epstein,
contractor explained that the windows that were installed were salvaged
from the previous space. It was a cost resource saving idea but should have
been brought in before they were installed. Staff recommends approval
because when you look around at that building there is a variety already in
the pattern of windows. What they have constructed matches the materials
that are in the rest of the building.
Dana Epstein said they used the existing windows in order to try and save
money. Dana said he had mis- communicated with Amy when they talked
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about the windows. The windows were of such a size that everything
wouldn't fit.
Jay asked if the big window was salvageable. Dana said he used the
framework.
Amy said the tenant was desperate to get into the space and we did issue a
conditional co that they could move in but they were operating at their own
risk.
Dana said the tenant wanted a tall door and we needed another emergency
egress per code.
Ann said what we approved is better than what was constructed. The
windows could have been arranged better. This is not an historic building
and it doesn't have an enormous negative effect on the historic district. As
monitors we need to figure out how to be on top of things but we also need
to impress on the contractors and owners that when something comes up you
have to come back.
Brian agreed with Ann but pointed out that the closer the door is to the
corner it energizes the space.
Jay pointed out that this is a touchy subject because you basically built what
was not approved. The only thing that can make this better is a line of
molding on the door to match the break of the upper windows.
Dana said they can install that molding.
MOTION: Brian moved to approve the change on 525 E. Cooper Ave. per
the as built conditions; second by Ann.
Discussion:
Amy asked if the motion should include the molding.
Jamie said she is opposed to the molding because the door needs to be
separate from the windows. Ann agreed.
Motion carried 5 -1. Jamie was opposed.
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1102 Waters Avenue — Historic Landmark Designation, Historic Lot
Split and Ord. #48 negotiation — Public Hearing
Amy said this property was identified on Ord. #48 as a potential historic
resource from the Post War Era. It is an A frame chalet home designed by
Fritz Benedict in 1967 and is still in the original family's ownership. It is a
prototype that Fritz Benedict designed for the ski industry. It is in its
original condition and is unique and special. This application includes a
voluntary designation which staff supports. We find that it meets the
designation criteria for its association with Fritz Benedict who was a very
influential architect in Aspen and throughout the resort communities. Fritz
designed master plans for Vail, Breckenridge etc. The property scored
100% on the integrity scoring sheet. Staff appreciates the landmark
designation being brought forward. The ordinance #48 process is give and
take and they are offering landmark designation and they want to discuss
incentives and benefits that are site specific.
Lot split: The general idea is to take the allowable square footage that the
parcel would be able to have and divide it into separated structures. Ideally
leaving as little expansion as possible on the historic building and pushing
the rest into one or two residential buildings. The property is eligible for the
lot split and it can support the historic house on one lot and a single family
or duplex on the second lot. The property is affected by slopes and part of it
is under the water, The Roaring Fork River. Typically when that type of
development occurs you get no development rights with the area that is
associated under the river and you get reduced rights for steep slopes, so that
affects the amount of FAR you can have on the site. With the top of slope
there is a required setback to protect the view and the environmental impacts
from the river. The Engineering Dept. determines top of slope and the
suggestion is to straighten the line. Normally there is a 15 foot setback on
top of slope and this applicant is asking to building to the top of the slope. A
single family or duplex could be building on the vacant lot and that review
would have to come to HPC for review of the design but you would not be
in the position to require any greater setbacks. The rear setback is ten feet
and five is being provided. The property is in the R -15 zone district and the
applicant wants to come up to the lot line. They also want a waiver of the
on -site parking; a single family requires two spaces and a duplex requires
four spaces. The applicant is trying to provide a garage on the open lot. In
the request there are policy issues that will be dealt with by council; fee
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waiver requests and a request not to provide affordable housing for the new
construction. The housing office is opposed to that waiver. The applicant is
also asking for ten years of vested rights under the code that is in place.
Mitch Haas, Haas Land Planning, LLC
Mitch said they are volunteering landmark designation but only in exchange
for a certain package of benefits that the applicants need in order to make all
of this work. The property is in the Calderwood subdivision and platted by
Fritz Benedict and the house was designed by Fritz and we believe it is the
first lot in the subdivision to be developed. The original family has owned
the property since its creation. The applicants are three siblings who
inherited the property through their parents. It is in the R -15 zone district.
This is also an Ordinance #48 request. Ordinance #48 sets out a process
where an applicant comes in and says ok I'll landmark my property and
forever be subject to HPC review and have to retain and preserve the
building only if A,B,C is granted for the property to make everything else
workable. The ordinance says we have to meet a mutually acceptable
agreement for the preservation of the resource. Our goal is to reach an
acceptable agreement. A local family owns the property and all of the
requests are essential. The package submitted is for an historic lot split
approval. Normally on a lot split you figure out your allowable duplex FAR
and divide it between the two resulting lots. What we have done is request
the historic lot split where that the allowable FAR be based on the lot areas
of the resulting lots. Given the artificial constraints of the zoning restrictions
and the map top of slope we propose a solution to those constraints in the
way of a building envelope that once approved would supersede all those
requirements going forward. Any development would fully have to have
HPC review for the design and layout. The following are largely City
Council discussions: Waiver of the ADU or cash in lieu requirement. If an
ADU was required on the property it would end up crowding the property
unnecessarily and push development toward the historic resource. We are
also requesting waiver of the park dedication fee. We are also requesting a
parking waiver of 4 spaces and we are proposing vested rights for ten years.
The constraints are artificially imposed with the stream margin and top of
slope mapping. The zoning does not fit with this neighborhood. On Waters
Ave. there is not a single lot that has 15,000 square feet. The building next
to our property is almost below the top of slope. The majority of
development on Waters Ave. is below top of slope. When we look at the
zoning restrictions and set backs off the top of slope it becomes clear that the
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restrictions are constraints on the development of the property. All the
structures are in the setback areas and non conform so we don't have a
conforming lot of record on the street and we don't have a conforming
structure on the street. The lots are not constraint; the zoning is
inappropriate. We feel the proposed building envelope is reasonable.
The question has come up about the proximity of the building envelope to
the historic resource but HPC has full purview over the lot and HPC can
address it when the development is proposed. Loss of this building would
be a detriment to the historic preservation program. Staff is suggesting
looking at the fathering parcel and not exclude the steep slopes. The
allowable FAR would be 4528 square feet.
Mitch said they proposed 2975 square feet of FAR on the vacant lot for a
duplex and 2024 square feet of FAR for lot 1. The existing structure is
about 1500 square feet but we have never done a FAR calculation. A
portion of it is below grade. There is not a lot of potential to add onto the
historic house.
Nora inquired about the ditch. Mitch said the ditch runs through the
proposed envelope and it would have to be moved. The Park's Dept. said it
is an abandoned ditch.
Amy said the Parks Department would be happy to see the ditch return to the
river as fast as possible. This ditch has taken water out of the river and the
Parks Department would like to see it re- routed.
Ann said once the envelope is determined the house can be pushed up to any
edge of the envelope.
Jay said the historic house is not moving.
Brian said any kind of addition on the historic house would have to come
through HPC.
Chair - person, Sarah Broughton opened the public hearing.
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John McCue, adjacent property owner. John inquired about the owners.
Mitch said the owners Wendy and William Geary live in the house and their
son attends Aspen High School. John asked if you are not permitted a
garage structure where would you park or would you be like the rest of us
fighting for the spaces in front of our property. Do you have any issues with
the fact that there will always be automobiles and trucks parked in front of
the potential homes. Mitch said the existing house does not have any on -site
parking or garage so they have gotten used to parking on the street. They
are going to try to fit one or two one car garages in the design but if it
doesn't work then they will live with parking on the street like everyone
else.
John McCue also asked if anyone has taken into consideration any of the
neighboring buildings and the loss of sight and view of the mountains and
trees or anything of that nature or is that irrelevant to the pursuit.
Sarah said the HPC looks at the development in context with the entire
neighborhood.
John McCue said there are two of us that live on the end unit and second
unit that faces Waters Ave. The one unit has many windows have the view
of the trees and mountain which would certainly be obscured if anything
came that close over in the envelope. Our unit is the second one from the
end we have a very large balcony that looks directly toward the historic
house which is quite beautiful to see the A frame single family property.
Does loss of that view ever become a consideration.
Jason said it definitely becomes a consideration. Jason said Mark Tye
expressed his concerns in a letter and there are quite a few cottonwood trees
that are thick on the property which becomes a buffer.
John McCue said the ditch is quite pleasing right now and to relocate it
would be a loss for the neighbors that are presently there.
Jay said there are five protective views in the City of Aspen. We all have
concerns of someone building in front of us and we will take that into
consideration.
John McCue said the house they bought was very expensive but it is all
about the location and views and anything that would obstruct that would be
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very upsetting. I also speak for the Rothchild's who live on the second
floor.
Mark Olfelder, neighbor
My family owns the Aspen Townhouses by the river. My family owns 10 of
them and my in -laws own one. There are 16 units total. Eight were the
originals. I understand that you want to develop every possible spot that you
can get your hand on but there has to be a way to weight the balance. I
would object to the 0 setback or even a five foot setback. The other issue is
how many square feet do you need to have to develop. It seems like the
historic building is an excuse to squeeze every square foot and to get every
potential benefit out of that property.
Wendy Geary, owner said as far as parking, people park there all the time.
As far as the decks that look out over the river the building envelope is set
back enough so I would doubt that you would even see anything. Wendy
pointed out for the neighbors that the fence line is not the property line.
Regarding the windows of the Rothchild's they actually put those in five or
six years ago and that wall used to be solid. I have been involved with this
for 27 years and we all have our different reasons for the sentimentality of
the property. We want the family to have a little piece of Aspen in their
lives.
Mitch said they made an effort to talk to immediate neighbors. Mitch said
he personally met with Andrew Rothchild who owns the top floor unit and
Wendy and Scott met his wife Evette on the property. They have chosen not
to oppose this. I sent them the application and have e- mailed them
thoughout the process. The lower level unit does not have a single window
on the side facing the property. There are other neighbors in support of the
project and we can't satisfy everyone. We don't see how this proposal will
directly impact them.
John McCue pointed out that he has a series of e -mails from the Rothchild's
and they abandoned the pursuit of derailing the project because they thought
there was adequate resources within the City of Aspen to deal with the right
result in the end. Neither of the Rothchild's have agreed or welcomes a
structure outside of their home.
Amy said she received a letter from Suzanne Resnick of the Calderwood
Subdivision and she is in support of the effort to preserve the A frame ski
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chalet. She knowledged the family has asked for various concessions and
understands the special considerations.
Amy said there was a site visit at NOON and Jamie, Nora, Ann and Jason
were present.
John McCue pointed out that all the structure are non - conforming already.
Because it happened several years ago doesn't mean it has to be maintained.
Jay asked Amy if you scraped the historic house and kept it one lot what is
the allowable FAR. Amy said 3762 square feet.
Mitch said if we do on -site parking you are looking at two curb cuts which
eliminate some of the street parking because you can't park in front of the
driveways.
Discussions: Designation:
The majority HPC members were in favor of designation. Sarah pointed out
that she is torn. The entire neighborhood is confusing especially the
development that happened after this building was built mainly on the left
side of Waters as you come into it. I am pro preservation and pro this period
but I do not think this is something that is a slam dunk.
Jason said this building is a gem. It is a gem from the river and it is really
well preserved. When you go inside you feel like you are there when it was
built. There aren't many places where you can see it from the back side. It
is well designed and thought out.
Ann said this is a perfect example of integrated the site with the house and
the design is very discrete and small and when you go around the corner it
expands. It is a very interesting piece of architecture.
Nora said her vision is that it will stay that small and there will be two small
buildings next to it. It is the mass and scale that I am trying to imagine on
the second lot.
Amy said she believes that this prototype just at the point of his career when
he was influencing ski resorts in this state that he was trying to think of a
way that a simple easy mass would be sensible to the topography.
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Jamie said she is in favor of designation as long as the building stays as is.
The square footage should go onto the next building envelope or a TDR so
that the historic house doesn't get a third floor to it.
Jason said historic designation meets criteria 26.415.030B a.b.c. This
building is an influence for ski houses nationally and a model for
manufacturing. The integrity score was 100 and this is a fantastic looking
building.
Discussion: Incentives:
Lot split, variances, stream margin and setbacks. On -site parking, fee
waivers and vested rights.
Jay said the lot split is appropriate but he is struggling with the parking, fees
and the ADU. If we designate and the FAR of 2975 goes to lot 2 and in
doing that lot 1 get no more FAR and no TDR's. Essentially preserving the
house how it sits. You would need to find a design that is acceptable to the
HPC on lot 2.
Sarah asked how Jay felt about the lot line. Jay said he is fine with that and
he can over look the parking.
Sarah said if we did a FAR calculation on the historic house we would
probably be closer to 1,000 square feet instead of 1,500.
Ann said the lot split is appropriate for the pattern on waters. Ann said she
is very concerned about the size of the building envelope and why it has to
be quite so big, particularly the south east corner. It is too close to the
historic corner and more breathing room needs to be given to the historic
house. The ditch could also be redirected away from the lot. My preference
would be that the historic house stay the same and all the FAR land on the
adjacent lot. Also I would prefer the on- street parking to keep the building
smaller.
Nora said she supports the lot split but the building envelope is almost
sitting on top of the historic house. I don't support parking variances but if
that is a way to achieve a smaller house that would be acceptable. The
historic building should not be blocked.
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Jason said the lot split is in compliance with 26.480.030 (A) (2) a.b. Parking
is an issue because of the adjacent housing complex. The city goals are to
eliminate parking and make it a pedestrian town so I am in favor of
eliminating parking onsite. I am ok with the setbacks except the south east
corner that closely touches the historic resource. The lines could be adjusted
at least five feet. It is not in compliance with guideline 26.415.110B.
Putting the affordable housing off site is ok but I am against waiving fees. I
am also in favor of waiving the stream margin review. Regarding the
historic house it should remain as built and the 2975 go to Lot 2. If we keep
the gem intact can they get the 500 square foot.
Sarah asked if they have extra FAR could they use it for the historic house or
TDR's. Mitch said they don't know what the FAR is on the historic house
but if there is a potential we would consider it.
Jason said they should be locked in with the FAR and sell the TDR's.
Jamie said she is in favor of designation and recommends keeping the square
footage as is on the historic house and no additions, remodels or third floors
add on can be added to the structure. I can support the lot split and all the
square footage should go to lot 2 and I am in favor of staff's proposal of
4528 square feet. I am also in favor of the slope reduction and stream
margin exemption which pairs into the setback variances. Ok with the
stream setback and the front setback. On the side setbacks they should be
brought in at least ten feet+ next to the historic structure. I would be in
favor of the ditch going down through the two parcels. I am in favor of the
five foot setback near the condos but that could be brought in somewhat due
to the trees. I would also like to see a tree plan of the trees that are to be
removed. I am in favor of waiving the off -site parking for a smaller
structure. I am not in favor of waiving the fees but that is a city council
decision. The affordable housing can be off -site. I am not in favor of the
vested rights being ten years.
Ann said she does not want to see the parking and affordable housing fees
waived but she could support a substantial reduction.
Sarah said she is in favor of the lot split. I cannot comment on the square
footage of the development without knowing the FAR is of the existing
house. That should be brought to City Council. If we are dealing with the
existing house being 1,000 square feet then the standard calculation might be
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the appropriate calculation for the two lots combined. That is an important
piece of information that we are missing. There should not be additional
FAR allowed on lot 1 because the historic landmark should just be as it is
now. In terms of the building envelope I am concerned how tight the lot line
is between the historic resource and the new lot. The ditch should be
realigned to flow between the two lots. I am also in favor of the waiver of
the on -site parking. It would be inappropriate to put garages on that mass
because the lot is too small. I am in support of the reduction of fee waivers.
I am also not in support of seeing square footage being put on this lot to just
be sold as TDR's. Our incentive program works. Sarah thanked the owner
for wanting to designate the property and for working with the HPC on the
application and we hope we have enough incentives on the table, lot split,
setback variances that will make this achievable for your family. This is a
nice amount of incentives that will make this work to the common good of
everyone.
Mitch said his off the cuff reaction if I can get agreement to leave the
existing building as is with no potential to add on or to change it that would
represent an exemplary preservation effort worth a 500 square foot bonus to
put on the other lot.
Sarah said the bonus is part of what we are negotiating right now. Mitch .
said we took it off the table figuring we could bring it in later. A number
doesn't define what a building is going to look like. This conversation is
moot until we know how much FAR is actually on this property. We need
to know how much FAR is on this property before we can come to a
number, whether it includes the possible 500 square foot bonus in the future
or not. It is arbitrary and putting all of us in a precarious situation and
yourself to not know what the existing FAR is.
Mitch said in reality that has nothing to do with it because if we are agreeing
that the building stay as is then the FAR is a moot point because it is not
going to change. If we are committing to the exemplary project now is the
time to ask for the 500 square foot bonus because later on it will be difficult
to do.
Ann said even if we keep the building completely intact we don't know how
much FAR lot 2 is getting because we don't know the FAR of the original
building.
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Mitch said we are saying lot 2 gets the 2975 plus the 500 square foot bonus
and lot one will be as is.
Brian said the FAR bonus is subjective to each individual member on the
board. You could get it if everyone agrees that the bonus should be thrown
into the pot of incentives but not everyone up here agrees to this.
Sarah said she would have felt more comfortable if you came to us and said
in order to get a duplex on lot 2 we need X amount of square footage. You
would add the 500 square foot calculation into it.
Mitch said you are saying 2975 plus nothing on the historic house which is
less than the code would say. I can't say whether the clients are going to
commit it s built.
Sarah said it would be great when we are dealing with irregular lots that we
see what the footprint would look like.
Mitch said we tried to do it but is it realistic for the applicant to hire an
architect to start designing when we don't have an agreement on top of
slope, where it would sit and what the allowable FAR is or anything else of
that matter.
Sarah said it is two hours of the professional's time if you are asking for all
of these incentives.
Jason said it won't be a great preservation effort if a two story box is next to
it. We will review that project at a later date.
Mitch said he disagrees because the historic house integrity score would stay
at 100 %.
Jay said you might end up forfeiting FAR on the property which might be
appropriate at this point. If you found out that would be 375 feet left after
calculation I would not give it to you. I would request that you forfeit it.
You got what you need.
Mitch said that is what we would do if we got the bonus.
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Sarah said we are uneasy about a few things but we want to give you all the
tools you will need to go with to city council and we want it easy in front of
council.
Sarah said we are providing a lot split and that in itself is a great incentive.
It is awesome so why all of a sudden do we have to keep adding FAR to it
and all these other things. There is not a lot of area to put all this stuff on.
Amy said with Ord. #48 we are in a voluntary setting and it is going to be a
little harder to determine how much is too much. Staff recommended not to
go past what is allowable by right.
Ann said in this case we need to be comfortable with the building envelope.
Amy explained that the FAR is not a guarantee, it may be that with the 2975
square feet they can't show you a design that is set and they might have to
sell some TDR's.
Mitch said that is typically true but in Ord. #48 if we negotiate that floor
area we have the right to that floor area.
Jay said either in TDR's or square footage.
Mitch said the recommendation as he understands it is lot 2 is ok except for
the building envelope closest to the historic resource. The historic house be
left as is with no addition.
Sarah said we are in favor of the waiver of on -site parking; support of the lot
split; fees and vested rights should be negotiated with city council; the
vested rights are particularly for the negotiation.
MOTION: Ann moved to approve resolution #11 for 1102 Waters Ave. with
the following recommendations.
HPC supports designation and the historic lot split.
The stream margin exemption is supported.
No addition on lot land the building should be preserved as is.
Supporting the waiver of all parking requirements for lot 2
Support some reduction in the fee waivers and the vested rights.
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Lot 2's building envelope to have a greater separation from the historic
resource. (ten feet off the proposed property line) it would jog as the
property line jogs as it coincides with zoning.
2975 on lot 2 and lot one is as is and the 500 square foot bonus is to be
determined in the future.
Motion second by Jay.
All in favor, motion carried. 7 -0.
MOTION: Jay moved to adjourn; second by Ann. All in favor, motion
carried.
Meetin adjourned at 8:00 p.m.
cYiZlc (t., . 5
Kathleen J. Strickland, Chief Deputy Clerk
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