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HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.council.20110314 Regular Meeting Aspen City Council March 14, 2011 SWEARING IN NEW COUNCILMEMBER 2 CITIZEN PARTICIPATION 2 COUNCILMEMBER COMMENTS 2 TERMINATION OF GIVEN NEGOTIATIONS 3 RESOLUTION #21, SERIES OF 2011— Lease Assignment Harbert Lumber 4 ORDINANCE #9, SERIES OF 2011— 500 W. Hopkins (Boomerang) PUD Amendment 4 ORDINANCE #2, SERIES OF 2011— Amending Municipal Code — Election 4 ORDINANCE #7, SERIES OF 2011— Code Amendment Historic Lot Splits 8 ORDINANCE #3, SERIES OF 2011— Engineering Fees 9 ORDINANCE #4, SERIES OF 2011 — Community Development Department Fees 9 1 Regular Meeting Aspen City Council March 14, 2011 Mayor Ireland called the meeting to order at 5:08 PM with Councilmembers Torre, Johnson and Skadron present. SWEARING IN NEW COUNCILMEMBER Municipal Judge Brooke Peterson gave the oath of office to Ruth Kruger as Councilmember to replace Dwayne Romero. Councilwoman Kruger took her seat at the Council table. CITIZEN PARTICIPATION 1. Emzy Veazy suggested the Council encourage the business community to do more research and development. 2. LJ Erspamer noted there was an accident in front of the Hotel Jerome last week. This is a dangerous intersection. Erspamer suggested the city work with the Jerome and move the curb back to the north 18" to 2'. Councilman Torre said the city is working on safety improvements all along Main street and he would only like to work on this intersection in line with all the improvements. Council suggested Erspamer discuss this with the Hotel Jerome and then meet with the city engineer. 3. Marilyn Marks stated there is an initiative started by newspaper editors and agencies to declare this week "Sunshine week" celebrating the 250` birthday of James Madison and to ask governing bodies to review their processes, open meeting and records and to make improvements. Ms. Marks presented Council with a proposed proclamation including proposals for the city to look at towards expanding open meetings and records. Mayor Ireland said city staff will look at this and report back to Council. COUNCILMEMBER COMMENTS 1. Councilman Torre announced he has made it to the second round of the curling playoffs. Councilman Torre noted this is Aspen Fashion Week as well as the Laff Fest at the Wheeler. Councilman Torre commended community members who participated in the uphill race on Aspen Mountain, the Ski for Hope at Buttermilk and the 4 mountain challenge. 2. Councilman Torre noted a work session scheduled for March 29 will address the plastic bottle and bags community based initiatives. 3. Councilman Torre congratulated and welcomed Councilwoman Kruger. 4. Councilman Johnson announced his hockey team is in the finals next week. 5. Councilman Johnson reminded everyone the next 2 or 3 weeks is spring break and to use public transportation whenever possible. 2 Regular Meeting Aspen City Council March 14, 2011 6. Councilman Johnson said Aspen is nearing the end of the ski season and reminded everyone to keep delivering the high caliber customer service Aspen is known for. 7. Councilman Johnson said everyone should remember Japan and the difficult times they are going through. 8. Councilman Johnson announced April l is the Council Ski day. 9. Councilman Skadron welcomed Councilwoman Kruger. 10. Councilman Skadron said he is going to Washington DC tomorrow on behalf of RFTA to meet with both Colorado senators and 2 members of the House to talk about the smart grant monies. 11. Councilman Skadron suggested send a contribution for Japan to Aspen's sister city in Japan for them to distribute where they feel necessary. Council agreed and authorized $2500 out of contingency. 12. Mayor Ireland applauded the contestants who did the Power of 4. There was a national competition at Buttermilk and Aspen took the top 5 places. The canine uphill will be on Buttermilk April 3 13. Mayor Ireland said the Aspen high School women's team and the volleyball team will both come to Council to be honored for sportsmanship and for scholarship. 14. Councilman Skadron reported he attended CORE Board where they talked about off -site exemption requests, a second seat on the CORE board for Pitkin County, Basalt as a full voting member and the REMP grant review process. 15. Councilman Skadron said at the RFTA board meeting, the IGA was discussed and the trails for this summer season. Councilman Skadron said there was a request for a bridge across the Roaring Fork River. Councilman Skadron said he voted against this as this is a pristine and undisturbed area and it would impact the aesthetic of the trail and did not speak to the mission of RFTA. 16. Councilman Torre said at the RWAPA meeting, the front range water plans and additional diversions were discussed. Also RWAPA discussed the invasive species at Ruedi and because of Aspen's interest in Ruedi and the hydropower project; Aspen will take a leadership role in this. Councilman Torre said they would like to propose a full decontamination station at Ruedi. 17. Mayor Ireland reported he recently attended a presentation on the International Mountain Partnership. Aspen was the first US city to join. The International Mountain Partnership is looking at issues that affect mountain communities all over the world. TERMINATION OF GIVEN NEGOTIATIONS 3 Regular Meeting Aspen City Council March 14, 2011 Councilman Johnson moved to terminate Ordinance #48 negotiations for the Given Institute; seconded by Councilman Skadron. All in favor, with the exception of Councilman Torre. Motion carried. RESOLUTION #21, SERIES OF 2011— Lease Assignment Harbert Lumber Councilwoman Kruger recused herself due to a conflict of interest; the new owners contacted her for a professional opinion on the value of the rents in the area. Scott Miller, capital assets, told Council this lease assignment has been negotiated for Probuild and to assume the lease agreement from Western Building Solutions with the following major changes; this grants the City a license to store equipment on site; grants Probuild the option to renew the lease for an additional five 5 years extending the term of the lease until July 31 2018; grants the City access to property the city owns adjacent to this site; Probuild will pay the city a deposit of seventy thousand dollars $70,000. The rent is $35,000 /month plus 4.61% of the gross sales. Mayor Ireland moved to approve Resolution #21, Series of 2011; seconded by Councilman Torre. All in favor, motion carried. ORDINANCE #9, SERIES OF 2011— 500 W. Hopkins (Boomerang) PUD Amendment Mayor Ireland moved to continue Ordinance #9, Series of 2011, to June 13, 2011; seconded by Councilman Torre. All in favor, motion carried. ORDINANCE #2, SERIES OF 2011 — Amending Municipal Code — Election Kathryn Koch, city clerk, introduced the other members of the Election Commission, Ward Hauenstein and Bob Leatherman. Ms. Koch told Council the Election Commission has been working on this ordinance since December. Ms. Koch said the city has hired Dwight Shellman as an election consultant to help with the new procedures and with the election generally. Ms. Koch told Council there have been changes since first reading. The changes are that the city will opt out of permanent mail -in voting. The Election Commission agreed that post cards will be sent to those voters on the permanent mail -in voting list to inform them they will have to apply to get a ballot mailed to them for the city elections. Absentee voting will take place in the city clerk's office but voters will place their ballots in envelopes, seal and sign them, and deposit these in a sealed ballot box. Ms. Koch noted Shellman recommended the special absentee voting section be amended to include being able to receive ballots by FAX or e-mail; this is allowed in the county for overseas voters. The Election Commission recommends that allowing an election judge to verify a voter's identity be deleted. The Commission felt there might be unnecessary pressure put on election 4 Regular Meeting Aspen City Council March 14, 2011 judges. The list of allowable identification has been deleted and refers to those identifications allowable by state statute. The Election Commission recommends adding a requirement for a post election audit. Post election audits are not required in the municipal election code. This requires the election commission to adopt procedures to conduct an audit on at least one contest and one "audit unit ". The recount provision modifies the requirement for a recount to require a manual recount of the votes cast if it appears that the outcome of a contest turns on a number of votes less than or equal to one half of one percent of the total number of ballots cast and counted in the election The Municipal Election Code states a recount would be held if the difference between the highest number of votes cast in the election and the next highest number of votes cast in the election is less than or equal to one half of one percent of the total number of votes cast in the election. Councilman Torre said he was unclear in the procedure to be used and if an audit is being done, one machine may not provide enough of an audit. Councilman Torre requested the election commission refine this so that there is an effective audit. Councilman Torre asked for a clarification of "ballots cast" and "votes cast ". Jim True, special counsel, said this amendment is to insure the recount is based on the percentage of the total number of ballots, all of the people that voted in a particular contest. True noted the existing statute delineates to subtract the highest votes candidates minus the second number of highest votes and compare it to the votes cast for the highest vote getter. This ordinance changes the denominator. Shellman said if the recount percentage is based on the number of votes cast, that could be a hard threshold to meet as it is diluted by under votes. If the recount procedure is based on the total ballots cast, that is a hard number. People do not have to vote for every race on the ballot. The Election Commission is recommending a hard number. Shellman said if 2500 ballots are cast and there is a contest decided by fewer than 12 or 13 votes, that margin would trigger it. The Commission feels if a contest comes down to 12 votes, there should be a recount. True said this amendment will make what it takes to have a recount more likely. Councilman Skadron asked if these issues have been sufficiently discussed by the election commission. Ms. Koch said the commission met 8 times and has thoroughly discussed these amendments. Councilman Skadron noted he accepts the recommendations of the Commission and is prepared to adopt the amendments. Councilman Skadron moved to adopt Ordinance #2, Series of 2011, as amended, on second reading; seconded by Mayor Ireland. Mayor Ireland suggested rather than send post cards just to those on the permanent mail in list, post cards should be sent to every voter. Mayor Ireland said there are people who are not aware of when the election is or what they have to do to just before they leave town. Mayor Ireland stated he does not agree with the amendment to require identification for municipal elections. Mayor Ireland said he finds it unlikely that someone in Aspen would vote who should not be voting. Mayor Ireland said there have been circumstances where voters in Pitkin County have gone to the polls without identification, have been turned away and have not voted in that election. 5 Regular Meeting Aspen City Council March 14, 2011 Leatherman said the Election Commission discussed requiring IDs at length. Leatherman said if people want to vote, they come prepared. There is a provisional ballot for those who do not have IDs and who want to vote. Hauenstein noted identification is required at all county elections. There was a complaint filed about lack of requiring identification. Shellman said the majority of voters do not discern the difference between city and county elections and the Election Commission felt it would be beneficial to make the requirements consistent. Councilman Torre asked how provisional balloting will work if people forget their ID. Shellman said the provisional ballot is sealed in an envelope citing the reason one is voting in that manner. The voter can supply their identification within 2 days and their ballot will be verified and counted. Councilman Torre asked if there are any statistics for voters showing up without identification and casting a provisional ballot. Shellman said it is a few. Leatherman noted that hiring Shellman, his input and the input from the city attorney's office kept the Election Commission informed and moving forward. Mayor Ireland opened the public hearing. Neil Siegel asked how applications for absentee ballots will be handled if there is a runoff. Ms. Koch said applications have boxes for voters to check if they want absentee ballots for both elections. Siegel suggested using digital signatures for those who send facsimiles from overseas. Ward Hauenstein brought up ballot images or ballots being available to the public after an election and having ballot images available will do a lot to verify the veracity of an election if the voters know before an election that their anonymous ballots will be available. Hauenstein said Humboldt county has all the ballots on the website so that people could independently verify the results of an election and this availability has not harmed the election and has created public awareness. Councilman Torre said as a voter he does not want his ballot to be made public. Councilman Torre said if the voters of Aspen want to go this way, this should be a ballot issue. Councilman Torre said he does not feel making ballots public is the only measure of transparency. Councilman Torre said he is willing to have further conversations on this moving toward a public vote. Mayor Ireland said the city election in 2009 was the most transparent; ballot images were flashed on screens and ballot strings were released. this lead to abuses and to people claiming to know how people voted based on the ballot strings. Mayor Ireland said he feels that could lead to voter intimidation and data mining and putting together pieces of information to determine who voted how. Mayor Ireland said he does not feel there is a way to insure total anonymity. Mayor Ireland said when copies of ballots are released on disc, people may say the government's count is wrong and then the original ballots come into play. Mayor Ireland said another possibility is someone changing the information on a disc. Mayor Ireland said if the citizens of Aspen want the public to be able to look at copies of the ballots this can be done through a referendum petition and ballot question. Mayor Ireland said he will not refer a question to the voters that he thinks is unconstitutional. Hauenstein said not all contests would need to be on the same image and could be separated by contest. Hauenstein said the city attorney's staff has made it clear that they are opposed to 6 Regular Meeting Aspen City Council March 14, 2011 providing ballot images. Hauenstein said he would like to have a public discourse on making ballot images available, under what conditions and in what format. Bob Rankin told Council at the last election he ran in 11 counties. A topic in every county is election processes and problems and voters are distrustful of the process. Elected officials should find ways to be transparent instead of resisting. Rankin agreed data mining is occurring. Rankin the city and the election commission are on the side of better elections and integrity. Rankin said he would like to see Aspen take a leadership position on transparency of ballot images. Harvey Branscomb said he is dedicated to trying to understand elections and is trying to keep up with what makes elections work accurately. Branscomb told Council he is participating in weekly conversations about election audits in trying to improve those. Branscomb said he has no objections to the way in which this ordinance is written except in the section about preservation of the ballots. Branscomb said auditing one machine might be looking at one tainted machine and that is not the best way to audit. Branscomb noted it is important to look at the margins of an election before deciding how many machines or units to audit. Branscomb said with a lot of candidates in a contest, the way the recount provision is written in the Municipal Election Code, a recount would be unlikely. Branscomb agreed that the 2009 election was conducted with a lot of transparency. Branscomb said questions about the election process resulted in this ordinance, which is adding rules that did not exist and will provide more records in the Aspen election. Branscomb said the calculations regarding the strings from the last election resulted in a failure to shuffle the ballots. Branscomb said he would like to know why election officials have more access to ballots than the public does. Branscomb said the issue is to insure the ballots are anonymous and those that are not are protected so that they are released and are duplicated. Branscomb said voting is secret; there is a constitutional guarantee for secrecy in voting. This does not mean the ballot needs to be a secret. Branscomb noted Aspen has the right to change the election law. Mayor Ireland closed the public hearing. Hauenstein thanked Council for the chance to work on this over the last 12 months. Mayor Ireland said the Commission has raised the issue of where the community wants to go with the ballots and if there are adequate safeguards for anonymity. Mayor Ireland noted the election commission may work on this issue. Councilman Skadron asked if Section 9.10.130 has been changed since first reading. Shellman noted the way in which this section was written, the ballot box cannot be opened for anything other than a contest. Shellman said this amendment will permit the ballots to be removed for post election audits and recounts. Worcester said he feels that language is superfluous; however, it clarifies the original intent of the section. Councilman Torre said he supports mailing post cards only to those on the permanent mail in voter list and also supports requiring identification. Branscomb noted the language in Section 9.10.130 should be brought up to date and should address both ballots and "other election records ". Branscomb said this language should apply to non - anonymous ballots and there should not be restraints on the release of other election records. Branscomb said there is no reason to burn, bury or shred election records. Councilman Johnson agreed the election commission should work on audit procedures. Councilman Johnson agreed 7 Regular Meeting Aspen City Council March 14, 2011 that postcards only be mailed to those on the permanent mail in voter list. Councilman Johnson said he favors requiring identifications to be consistent with county election. Councilman Johnson stated he is not in favor of making the ballots public. Councilwoman Kruger agreed to requiring identification because of the consistency issue. Councilwoman Kruger said she feels postcards sent to all voters is a good reminder to the electorate to get out and vote. Councilwoman Kruger said she is confident the election commission will write the audit procedure appropriately. Mayor Ireland noted the audit section is written for a minimum audit and that can be addressed by the election commission Mayor Ireland moved to correct the typos and spacing; seconded by Councilman Skadron. All in favor, motion carried. Mayor Ireland moved to drop the requirement for identification; seconded by Councilman Skadron. Councilman Skadron stated there is ample safeguards in place in Aspen to insure the accuracy of elections and does not support adding difficulties to the voting procedures. Councilman Torre said he will support identification as voter security and there are provisions for voters who show up without ID to participate. Mayor Ireland and Council Skadron in favor; Councilmembers Johnson, Torre, and Kruger opposed. Motion NOT carried. Mayor Ireland moved to amend section 9.10.060 to change it to "shall deliver to all registered electors a notice by U.S. mail to the effect that an absentee ballot will not be delivered unless application for the same is made to the city clerk's office "; seconded by Councilman Skadron. Councilmembers Skadron, Kruger, Johnson and Mayor Ireland in favor; Councilman Torre opposed. Motion carried. Mayor Ireland moved to adopt Ordinance #2, Series of 2011, as amended; seconded by councilman Johnson. Roll call vote; Councilmembers Torre, no; Johnson, yes; Kruger, yes; Skadron, yes; Mayor Ireland, yes. Motion carried. ORDINANCE #7, SERIES OF 2011— Code Amendment Historic Lot Splits Amy Guthrie, community development department, proposed two code amendments to the historic lot split section. Ms. Guthrie reminded Council since 1987, the historic preservation program has been incentive based and the historic lot split has been the most successful incentive. Ms. Guthrie told Council the historic lot split is allowed in the MU mixed use zone; however, one of the provisions is that if one is separating out a vacant lot to build on, it has to be a single family house. Ms. Guthrie noted MU is not where single family houses are encouraged; it is a commercial area. Ms. Guthrie said another amendment is to extend the historic lot split to the C -1 zone, similar to the MU zone. Ms. Guthrie pointed out currently historic lot splits are not an option in C -1. This amendment will not create any new development rights but will allow property owners to take their existing development rights and separate them into two buildings. Mayor Ireland opened the public hearing. There were no comments. Mayor Ireland closed the public hearing. 8 Regular Meeting Aspen City Council March 14, 2011 Councilman Torre said he would like more information on the lots in the C -1 zone that could take advantage of this code amendment; there seems to be only 3 or 4 Lots to which this would apply. Councilman Torre said he can support the code amendment for the mixed use zone. Ms. Guthrie said of the 4 properties in the C -1 zone all have significant development rights; this code amendment gives property owners an option to create a detached building. Ms. Guthrie noted it is difficult to protect the historic resource when the development rights on a lot are so large. Councilman Torre asked if these structures are not already protected by the historic overlay. Ms. Guthrie said HPC does have review capability; but property owners would attempt to make the most of the property rights. Councilman Torre said his concern with properties on Hopkins Avenue in the C -1 zone is moving the historic structure on the site; the lot is often part of the historical significance. Greg Hills, property owner in C -1 zone, told Council the motivation behind this code amendment has to do with the Walton property, which has been a residential property forever and there is a right to do an addition to the building. Hills told Council staff feels if this were a commercial property, it would add energy to the corner of Hopkins and Spring. Hills said his thought was to have the historic property on the front be a commercial building with a residential structure on the rear of the property. Hills told Council movement of the historic structure is usually minimum. Mayor Ireland said he would rather not have residential development on lot split in C-1; residential development in the C -1 has made it a darker, less active area. Mayor Ireland said it would be good to have commercial activity in the C -1 zone. Mayor Ireland said this is still a discretionary review. Councilwoman Kruger said in that particular C -1 location, it would have to be an unusual destination commercial use to get activity. Councilman Johnson stated he supports the recommendation of staff, HPC and P &Z and likes the idea of adding vitality to the C -1 zone. Councilman Skadron stated he, too, supports staff's recommendation. Councilman Johnson moved to adopt Ordinance #7, Series of 2011, on second reading; seconded by Councilwoman Kruger. Roll call vote; Councilmembers Skadron, yes; Kruger, yes; Torre, no; Johnson, yes; Mayor Ireland, yes. Motion carried. ORDINANCE #3, SERIES OF 2011— Engineering Fees ORDINANCE #4, SERIES OF 2011— Community Development Department Fees Chris Bendon, community development, reminded Council these two ordinances deal with fees charged to development and development services. Bendon said these fees have not been increased in 5 years and the whole system has not been looked at as a unit in 20 years. Bendon said the current structure provides a subsidy to development, which is greater than was thought and represents a challenge to the city's general funds. At the previous public hearing, Council indicated they were interested in a delayed effective date. Council also wanted to see incentives 9 Regular Meeting Aspen City Council March 14, 2011 added for model projects; these incentives were added to both community development and to the engineering fees. Bendon said staff looked at the zoning officers review of building permits and the multitude of ways applicants describe their projects, floor areas, heights, setbacks, which leads to increased staff time. Staff has worked with the development community on coming up with a model submittal, which will save staff time and staff proposes a 10% fee decrease in those who do a standard submission. The delayed effective date will give staff time to complete this incentive portion. Trish Aragon, city engineer, told Council their incentive is based on encouraging construction sites to comply with the city's rules. Currently staff spends time reviewing a construction mitigation plan to make sure it is compliant with the city's regulations. Staff also spends time inspecting construction sites and has found sites in compliance and those continually not in compliance, those receiving red tags and noise complaints. Ms. Aragon proposed an incentive of 10% rebate at the end of the project for running a compliant site; this lessens the administrative burden on the engineering staff. Bendon said these incentives have been incorporated into these ordinances. Bendon told Council staff is also working on a new electronic permitting system where applicants will submit online or electronically. Mayor Ireland said he feels the added incentives are good; this would result in less stress and confrontation and cause less staff time. Councilman Johnson agreed he likes the incentives and asked if there has been public outreach and whether this will be overly burdensome to smaller companies and projects. Bendon said smaller project may not be in a digital mode and the incentive may not warrant a conversion to digital. Bendon said the common submission is a language issue so the zoning officer can readily understand the submission and get the permit reviewed quicker. Bendon said the important issue is to gain efficiencies in the staff review and system which will save money. Bendon reminded Council at the last meeting they discussed reducing the subsidy from the general fund to community development in order to support requests like special events. Bendon told Council currently the general fund is subsidizing community development $1.8 million/year or about 55% of development services. Bendon said that subsidy is out of alignment. Staff presented the original proposal of a 15% subsidy at $620,000 /year. This proposal gives a break to projects under $10,000 which is about half of what is presently occurring. Bendon said even in robust years, permits under $10,000 are about 45% of permits submitted and it is a meaningful to lower cost of those permits. Council requested staff look at less than full cost recovery of permits at $250,000. Staff has worked up 5 scenarios. Bendon told Council they should note fees will go up. This discussion highlights how the fee system has no basis in actual costs. #1 is 50% fees for all permit sand lowers the subsidy to 44% subsidy at $1.77 million/year. #2 is 50% fees for projects up to $250,000 and no credits for larger projects resulting in a 28% subsidy or $1.13 million/year. #3 is 25% discount fees for projects up to $200,000 and no credits for larger projects at a 22% subsidy or $890,000 /year. #4 is 50% fees for projects up to $100,000 and 75% fees for projects of $100,000 to $250,000 and credit applies to larger projects, they get the same discount as other projects with 25% subsidy or $1 million/year. #5 is 50% fees on commercial up to $250,000; no credits for larger projects and no reduction on residential fees resulting in a 10 Regular Meeting Aspen City Council March 14, 2011 20% subsidy or $830,000 /year. Bendon told Council commercial permits are about 25% of the volume and most are under $250,000. Bendon presented examples of 3 different types of building permits including the existing fees and fees under the scenarios listed above. Mayor Ireland said the development subsidy should be under $1 million. Mayor Ireland stated he supports delaying implementation of these fees. Mayor Ireland noted the general fund is $22 million and about 10% of this goes toward subsidizing development. Mayor Ireland said the city laid off 24 people; fees for recreation and golf have been raised. Mayor Ireland said the city needs to determine where to allocate the subsidy. Councilman Skadron said his priority is to get the development subsidy in line and to do this without stifling economic development. Councilman Skadron said scenario #4 seems to accomplish that. Bendon questioned the public purpose in waiving a portion of fees for a project of $5 million or more. Councilman Johnson said in all these scenarios, the fees are being increased. Councilman Johnson said it is important to him to keep the commercial core vibrant and not to squash the small businesses. Councilman Johnson said he would like to see the revenue less actual expenses. Steve Barwick, city manager, said staff will allocate all direct expenses. Ashley Ernemann, finance department, told Council the overhead allocation is about $350,000 which can be deducted from the subsidy. Mayor Ireland said Council wants to lower the overall subsidy somewhere between scenarios 4 and 5, to encourage downtown vitality and small business development. Mayor Ireland said Council would like a recommendation on the most effective way to protect small and start up developments. Bendon said that may be some combination of # 4 and 5. There is legitimate concem for smaller businesses to renovate. Bendon suggested commercial be separated from residential. Mayor Ireland suggested phasing out the credit for large projects and have more refined structure like under $50,000 collect 25% of the fees; $100,000 collect 50% of the fees; $150,000 collect 75% and focus on the smaller projects receiving the biggest subsidy. Mayor Ireland said his preference is for this discount to apply to commercial construction. Councilwoman Kruger commended staff for the work on these fees. Councilwoman Kruger applauded the incentive program and said she would like to know how this will be measured and how to determine if the incentives are attained. Councilwoman Kruger said staff has to keep in mind the effect on the construction industry and not to discourage hiring of people in that industry. Mayor Ireland suggested staff look at a lien system against a property so that the workers get paid. Councilwoman Kruger said she supports subsidizing building permits if that subsidy is creating vitality downtown and stimulating paychecks. Councilwoman Kruger said she would rather see this delayed past July. Councilwoman Kruger said subsidies for small commercial would be in the $100,000 range. Councilman Johnson said he favors a combination of 4 and 5, more 5. Councilman Johnson suggested staggering the implementation of the fees and start with engineering fees. Councilman Johnson said if development returns to the 2006 -2008 days, he would like to see that revenue projection. Mayor Ireland said projects under $150,000 will have some subsidy; projects above 11 Regular Meeting Aspen City Council March 14, 2011 will have no subsidy and put off implementation until August 1 Mayor Ireland agreed with earlier implementation of the engineering fees. Mayor Ireland opened the public hearing. Pat Sagal said he likes the idea of incentives and supporting small businesses. Sagal suggested subsidy for residences that are owner- occupied versus 2 " homes. Mayor Ireland closed the public hearing. Councilman Johnson moved to continue Ordinances #3 and 4, Series of 2011, to March 28; seconded by Mayor Ireland. All in favor, motion carried. Council requested the city clerk's office to set up interviews for the city /county housing position and to advertise for the new vacancy on the housing board. Councilman Johnson moved to adjourn at 9:45 PM; seconded by Councilwoman Kruger. All in favor, motion carried. Kathryn Koch, City Clerk 12