HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.apz.aazp.20110714 County & City Planning & Zoning Meeting — Minutes — July 14, 2011
LJ Erspamer opened the special meeting of the Joint Planning & Zoning
Commissions Thursday, July 14, 2011 4:35 in Council Chambers. Commissioners
present were: Cliff Weiss, Bert Myrin, LJ Erspamer, Stan Gibbs, Marcella Larsen,
John Howard and Jay Murphy. Staff in attendance: Chris Bendon, City
Community Development; Ellen Sassano and Cindy Houben, County Community
Development; Ben Gagnon; Jackie Lothian, Deputy City Clerk.
CONTINUED PUBLIC HEARING:
Aspen Area Community Plan
LJ Erspamer opened the continued public hearing with the County & City Joint
Commission for the Aspen Area Community Plan. Chris Bendon said the
commissions want to go through the action items and can factor that in. Cindy
Houben said that they were hoping that the next 2 meetings were on Growth,
Growth, Introduction and Action Items then a final draft. Cindy said there was
value meeting with the County Commissioners again before you adopt the plan.
Cliff Weiss asked if they were done with this chapter they would start working
with a new draft and he was hoping there would be another 6 hour meeting rather
than 3 days and hold action item by then. Cliff asked what you meant by Action
Items in a separate meeting. Cindy Houben replied that the commissioners asked
for that last time. Ben Gagnon said they would flag the action items that had been
changed during the revision process of the last 6 to 8 months. LJ Erspamer liked
Cliff's idea of a 6 hour meeting because there was something in the final draft
before we approve it. Cindy said once you get that document it will just be clean
up. John Howard said that when they go through the Action Items his expectation
is not only are we going to look at the ones that changed because we revise
philosophy or policy but there still needs to be some broader discussion on a lot of
those items as we go through with more discussion on action items. Chris Bendon
said that we will need to be more flexible. Cliff asked to have a week with the
draft prior to the 6 hour meeting. Bert Myrin said that rather than just conversation
you write the text that you suggest so we can have thumbs up or down.
Public, Institutional and Non Profit Sectors Chris Bendon stated they were
working off the September draft on the upper portion of the screen. Ben Gagnon
said there were no substantial changes from the March and September drafts in this
section. Bert Myrin said the March version explains the Aspen Idea and is it
before or after. Ben Gagnon replied before. John Howard stated he liked the
September version and questioned why we needed that 3 sentence in there and it
doesn't add anything to it. Cliff Weiss said it says they are an integral part of the
community and integral to our character but it is much more than that and it sounds
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like it's about Arts and Entertainment and not about the Airport. Cliff said it
doesn't say where we are going from here; it doesn't mention economics. Chris
replied that your second point mentions economic health and your first that it
should speak to the infrastructure quality or necessary logistics. Cliff said there
was nothing about the economy. Cindy Houben said there is in the September
draft. Ellen Sassano said on the upper screen it refers to economic health.
Marcella Larsen added the location and extent review which are only standards
now if in the UGB; if we take seriously the land use code and steep slopes matter,
wildlife matters and those sorts of things they should be applicable to public
projects and since this is our only area that we can assert standards she suggested
public uses should comply with the land use code to the greatest extent possible.
Chris summarized the commissioners' comments to have a little bit more about the
logistics of the community and how it functions; drop the last sentence (thumbs
up); government when it engages in development should set an example and
follow the highest standards and set an example for private development (thumbs
up); preservation of the non - profits not allowing them to convert; airport; healthy
governments; logistics of civic infrastructure (thumbs up). Cindy Houben stated
that John Ely wants to restate the comments on public development.
Tim Malloy, public, said that the Airport is working on a Master Plan, Terminal
Air Study and will be bringing that forward late this year or early next year so they
will be in the land use process. Tim said they are comfortable with the language
they have crafted tonight and need some County Attorney opinion on that or it is
included in the final. Tim spoke about other Master Plans and how the County
deals with them and changes.
Cindy Houben said she has had numerous discussions with the County Attorney
and this was the way the state law reads and therefore through the law we have the
ability to readopt 1041 regulations. Cindy said that some of the concerns that
Marcella has about steep slopes but what has happened with the new location and
the extent the law has gutted their ability to look at something through a site plan
review so if the County readopts elements of 1041.
Jay Murphy assumed there was some channel of communication between the
County and the State; does an action item need to be put in since State Law is
conflicting with the community's desires and does't our representative have an
obligation to speak to the State representatives about this and don't you begin
working on changing that law. Cindy Houben replied there is a whole new
perspective on it and why should a community that is doing community work
creating community projects have to go through barriers that might cost them more
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to make that project work. Cindy likened it to the school district that hasn't had to
come through any barriers. Jay Murphy said that was just a part of the time that it
was accepted. Chris Bendon said it could be something for the commission to
consider if you want to include this as an action item in the plan for the county to
address this issue with state. John Howard stated an example would be a Fire
Station and the County says no you can't put it there but we need a Fire Station in
that District.
Chris Bendon said the next section was Mitigation. Ben Gagnon said the decision
to go to the 100% rate and provide a rational for that approach at that time. LJ
Erspamer stated that he was happy with September, it was short and concise.
Marcella Larsen said she like the general nature of the section how we may want to
consider a sliding scale for uses that we may want to encourage and she would take
out what Ben wrote and put it in Housing. John Howard said part of this goes
beyond a philosophical statement reevaluating strengthening our strategy to
discourage types of development that provide minimal public benefit; what's the
public benefit of a large residential building, we should be discouraging it. John
said that he wasn't opposed to mitigation but from a philosophical standpoint is to
make sure that we develop some sort of metric that includes all the impacts
(positive and negative) and weigh in by a sliding scale of public benefit in there.
Ben Gagnon asked John what he meant by metric. John replied that when we look
at things like fiscal impact studies that go into that and it is a broad brush; we are
going to have impacts on transportation; we are going to have impacts on
affordable housing but it is also going to have an impact on our tax base and
impact on our sales tax revenue so there are lots of bits and pieces that have to go
into this in order to determine what the true impact to the community is. John said
to Marcella's point about government subsidy for some differential in there has to
be a community decision; are there overriding community benefits that we want to
absorb the cost of this or no we shouldn't be absorbing the costs of this and it
should fall to the people that are developing it. John said the studies that we have
looked at for impact fees on residential development that stop at 5,000 square feet
and we have asked to get those updated because the impacts from a 15,000 square
foot house are much greater and the metrics do not support that, they stop at a
5,000 square foot house.
Chris Bendon said the use that the community should support is that the subsidy
comes out of the housing fund so there is a discussion of how shall we pay for that;
should the housing department suffer or should it come out of the general fund.
Cliff Weiss was concerned with parts of each draft and it wasn't just a sliding scale
it was where policies and action items can cover the specifics. Cliff said a lot of
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the push back we got was from the average local having to pay a lot to do
something; he agreed with John that there was more too this than the way it was
approached; whether it was new or redevelopment mitigation is going to go up.
Cliff said there were new mitigations and there were some from the environmental
section but the other were not added.
Bert Myrin asked where the idea came from for reevaluating the new certificate
program. Ben Gagnon replied it is to revalue the whole menu of residential
affordable housing mitigation for residential development; we have about 4 or 5
options for people to mitigate for residential development when we added in the
affordable housing certificate program to that menu it has a lot of implications if
we want it to succeed.
Marcella Larsen said there were many issues just not affordable housing
mitigation. Cliff Weiss said that he was looking for a sliding scale that was not
just tied to use and if you are within your zone he was making sure this wasn't a
threat so it was tied to FAR and you could be vague. Cliff said he just wanted to
make sure this language isn't perceived by the public and by BOCC and Council
when they start making code recommendations as exemptions. John said those
items were better addressed in policy statements and should say that development
should mitigate appropriately for its impacts and shall not require public subsidy
unless it achieves certain community goals.
LJ Erspamer asked for a list of community benefits; he wanted to include
neighborhood in that. Jay Murphy said we need to clarify community benefit and
the community benefit that we can most directly affect is the preservation of
natural capital, natural environment. Marcella asked to use the word public
subsidy. Ben Gagnon said a community benefit in growth management we assign
different mitigation for specific community benefits; historic preservation get "x ",
affordable housing "y ", public projects are left for the Council to decide so in 8
years it is hard to decide. Cliff said it was a case by case basis. Marcella said a
case by case basis is unfair in terms of government of having a predictable way of
dealing with impacts and being able to figure out what the financial implications
are based on what the regulations say; she does not support the case by case. Chris
summarized we support a reduced full mitigation for moderate lodging (thumbs 4
up 2 down). John stated development should mitigate fully for its impacts and
generally not require public subsidy; exemptions from some or all mitigation
requirements may be allowed for those projects that help further community goals
or that have minimal impact (thumbs 5 up 1 down). LJ said it doesn't define it.
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Tim Malloy asked if this document will be specific enough that the airport will
need to do mitigation pursuant compliance with the Master Plan. Marcella said
that we should talk about exemption in a list; do we think all public projects should
be exempt from affordable housing mitigation. Tim said they are contemplating
the expansion of commercial use at the airport.
Dave Corbin, public, said it is better a guiding document and what ultimately needs
to be appropriate mitigated in what manner or to what end and may change over
time.
Bert Myrin said that Equity and Community Value from the March Draft (thumbs
all up).
Chris said the next topic was Maintaining our Tourist Based Economy and the
differences. Ben Gagnon replied one sentence versus four paragraphs. The
Commission began with the March. John Howard said that they got rid of all of
the explaining why, the history, addressed from an access paragraph and either
draft says how important it is to us; what are we committing to do; what is our
vision; and that is not in there. Marcella Larsen said it was the tourist economy
that we support here and that concept is not in here and add small town character.
Ben reiterated the changes as: the 1 sentence our long term that end with future
generations; get rid of the 70% and go to literally start the next paragraph with as
resorts are important we ask ourselves how will Aspen continue to be relevant in
the next 10 to 20 years and skip down to Aspen has a history of innovation and
reinvention and that creative spirit shall serve us well in the future.
Chris said that we have a little more context around what our philosophy is. Cliff
spoke about the two drafts. Marcella spoke of the limit of growth and there is a
limit to the number of people we can accommodate and still maintain our quality
of life.
MOTION: John Howard moved that Pitkin County continue the hearing to July
21 seconded by Marcella Larsen. Cliff Weiss moved to continue the City P &Z to
July 21 seconded by Bert Myrin. All in favor Approved.
Adjourned at 7pm.
v ranscribed by Jackie Lothian, Deputy City Clerk
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