HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.apz.20190521
Aspen Planning and Zoning Commission
May 21, 2019
Chairperson McKnight called the meeting to order at 4:30 PM.
Commissioners in attendance: Spencer McKnight, Teraissa McGovern, Scott Marcoux, Ryan
Walterscheid, Jimmy Marcus Absent: Brittanie Rockhill, Ruth Carver, Don Love, Rally Dupps
Staff present:
Jeannine Stickle, Records Manager
Andrea Bryan, Assistant City Attorney
Jennifer Phelan, Deputy Planning Director
Ben Anderson, Planner
STAFF COMMENTS
None.
COMMISSIONER COMMENTS
Mr. Marcus asked staff what the next step would be in addressing City Council regarding the rules
around second-tier commercial space since that was something Planning and Zoning had expressed a
desire to do in the past.
Ms. Phelan replied that the commissioners had expressed wanting to wait for the new City Council
members to come on board.
PUBLIC COMMENTS
Toni Kronberg addressed the meetings discussion slated for later in the agenda. She expressed a desire
for the Planning and Zoning Commission to take public comment on all agenda items, beyond just public
hearings, stating that Mayor Skadron does this in City Council meetings. She would like for the Planning
and Zoning agendas to clearly articulate the rules for public comment. She also expressed a desire for
Planning and Zoning to have a say in the elimination of the bike lane in front of the new City offices
building. She expressed a desire for better connectivity between the river and the mountain, stating
that the City promised to open the landscaping at the City office building. She expressed concern that
this plan now seems to have been abandoned. She also expressed concern that there is not
communication happening between different City departments, citing specifically Engineering and
Community Development.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Mr. Walterscheid voted to approve the minutes from April 23rd, 2019. Ms. McGovern seconded. All in
favor, motion carried.
DECLARATION OF CONFLICT OF INTEREST
None.
PUBLIC HEARING
412 N Eighth Street, RDS Standard Variation – Articulation of Building Mass
Mr. Anderson introduced the public hearing. He stated that the property next door has come before
Planning and Zoning for consideration for a similar variation. He showed the location of the property
within the subdivision on a map on the slide. The Commission is being asked to consider only one of the
standards within the larger set of RDS standards as the design complies with all the other RDS standards.
The standard being examined is the Articulation of Building Mass standard.
Mr. Anderson showed a picture of building on the slide. He pointed out the design element in question,
a one-story element that runs along the south side of the building and contains a side-loaded garage and
entry door. He stated that there are three options presented in the land use code for meeting this
standard within the residential design standards. This design is most pursuing option number two, Off-
set with One-Story Ground Level Connector. The standard states that the connecting element shall be
at least ten feet in length and set back at least an additional five feet from the sidewall on both sides of
the building. This usually results in a barbell-shaped feature with a primary mass in the front and then
rising back out with a step back in the rear element. This stepdown is required to be no more than 45
feet from the frontmost wall of that front element from the primary massing. He showed a rendering of
the proposal on the slide and pointed out that the design runs past the connecting one-story
subservient feature and back to the rear element.
Mr. Anderson stated that staff has had a lot of discussion around this articulation of building mass
standard. There was a code amendment to change it back in 2015 or 2016 to emulate traditional forms
throughout Aspen. It has been the standard that staff has received the most questions about regarding
how to best meet the standard, what the intent statement for the standard really means, what’s the
flexibility around getting at the intent statement and meeting the standard. The reason that this case is
before P&Z is that it doesn’t meet the standard. This is a non-flexible standard, meaning that staff can’t
make an administrative determination, it is required to come before P&Z.
Mr. Anderson stated that a variation is different than a variance to dimensional standards. In the case
of a variation, the applicant does not need to have a hardship to grant the variation. The two review
criteria are to provide an alternative design approach that meets the overall intent of the standard or
site-specific constrains. As staff does not believe there are any site constraints in this case, the
commission is being asked to contemplate intent. In the Articulation of Building Mass standard, there
are two phrases that stand out. One is “design should articulate building walls by utilizing multiple
forms to break up large expansive wall planes” and “design should change the plane of a building’s side
wall.”
Mr. Anderson stated that staff are generally reluctant to support variations to this standard. Most of
the time, the applicant is asking for extension of those dimensions. In this case, staff’s perspective is
that this design does get after these two statements from the intent statement, adding articulation to
large wall planes, utilizing multiple forms to break up those planes, and changing the plane of a
building’s side wall. There’s nothing in the general intent statement that this runs aground of. With
that, this proposal meets the standard for the specific RDS Articulation of Building Mass standard and
the general intent statements as well. Also, because the proposal meets the other RDS standards as
shown by the administrative checklist shown in the packet, approval on this project would grant a
variation to the Articulation of Building Mass standard as well as a general approval for RDS standards.
With that, Mr. Anderson turned the meeting over to Commissioner questions.
Mr. Marcus asked if the part that extends beyond the connector is another variation.
Mr. Anderson replied no. He the piece that makes the design non-compliant on a rendering on the slide.
Staff’s view is that the one-story element serves to break up what would otherwise be two unified wall
planes. From staff’s view, this is a design improvement towards that intent statement. The only
variation that’s being requested is an articulation of building mass in a way that does not precisely meet
the numbers expressed in the standard.
Mr. McKnight asked if there are any further questions. Seeing none, he turned the meeting over the
applicants’ presentation.
Patrick Rawley from Stan Claussen Associates introduced himself. He also introduced Joseph Spears of
S2 Architects. He showed the location of the property on a slide. He pointed out the vacated Francis
right-of-way and the Sy Johnson Ditch. Among being fully compliant with the other RDS standards, they
are also compliant with building setbacks. There is a five-and-a-half-foot setback on the north side, in
between the duplex on lot 5, and then a seventeen-and-a-half-foot setback on the south side. The
articulation of building mass is the actual variation they are asking for. The intent statement is to reduce
the overall perceived mass and bulk of the buildings, articulate building walls by utilizing multiple forms
to break up large expansive wall planes, and designs should change the plane of a building’s sidewall.
There is an intent of this RDS and the standard that shows how to get there. What Mr. Spears and his
team has come up with is arguably a better way to go about this articulation of building mass.
Mr. Rawley showed a rendering of the one-story connecting element on a slide and stated that it would
be fully compliant on the north side. It does meet the depth requirement. The alternative element on
the south side, while it does not meet the standard of the dumbbell-shaped structure, it really is causing
the mass and the articulation of the building to be evident and make the structure look smaller than it
would if it were following strict standards. He demonstrated this by showing renderings on the slide.
Mr. Rawley stated that there are two review criteria for the variation. It’s clear that the applicants are
providing an alternative design approach that meets the overall intent of the standard, indicated in the
intent statement for the standard as well as the general intent statements of the RDS. He showed a
comparison between the proposal and a design that was fully compliant with the standard, showing that
the proposal gives a sense of a smaller building overall and reduces the perceived mass and bulk. The
articulation of building mass is also to promote light and air between adjacent properties. Articulate
building walls by utilizing multiple forms. As stated, there are many multiple forms and various points of
interest that will create visual interest. The applicants changed the plane of the building’s side wall,
stepping it in. As pointed out earlier, the intent of the RDS is to connect residences to the street and this
property has a very strong street presence. They are also responding to neighboring properties through
the connector element that is meeting RDS standards on the north side. Somebody standing on lot 5
would be seeing this as any normal standard being met. This proposal reduces the perceived bulk and
mass on all sides by pulling some mass away from the side yard on the south. To encourage the
relationship of adjacent development, the proposal leaves room for future development. The final point
of the RDS is to reflect traditional building scales. In that section of the RDS it says that you should
encourage creative and contemporary architecture, but at a scale that respects historic additions. That
is what Mr. Spears has taken a look at designs around town and has created a better result than what
the strict standards would be doing. Most requests for this variation are attempting to increase the
mass of the building and this proposal does the opposite and reducing the mass of the building. The
intent statement is advanced by the proposed design as it says in the staff memo. With that, Mr. Rawley
asked for commissioner questions.
Mr. Marcus asked why the applicants extended it beyond what the step back would have been and how
long the structure can be.
Mr. Anderson replied that the primary, two-story mass is 33 and four inches. With the addition of the
second story mass, it’s another 10 or 11 feet, still less than 45 feet.
Mr. Marcus stated that, even with the extension, the proposal is still below what would be the limit of
one wall plane.
Mr. Spears stated that, regarding the step back, the applicants didn’t want to have a super wide gable.
They wanted to pull out the garage because they need an entry on one side of the two-car garage which
adds up to a certain width. But they didn’t want that width over a huge gable, so their preference was
to make the garage a little wider but make the gable tighter.
Mr. Anderson stated that he received phone calls from neighbors. One was concerned about he general
impacts that the Ranger Station construction would have on the quality of the street. The other
neighbor saw the design and was trying to understand the relationship between lots 4 and 5. They were
okay with the design.
PUBLIC COMMENT
Kim Cailin introduced herself as a neighbor of the property on West Francis. She asked how this project
relates to the Poppies site.
Mr. Spears stated that there is a transformer and easement between the two lots.
Ms. Cailin asked if this lot is to the north of the transformer.
Mr. Rawley replied that that is correct. He pointed out on the map where Poppies is located in relation
to this property.
Ms. Cailin asked if the property cuts into the ditch.
Mr. Spears replied that they are required to be ten feet off the center of the ditch.
Ms. Cailin asked what is being built in-between right now.
Mr. Spears replied that there is development happening on lot 4 to the north and then an alley. Lot 5 is
the only lot that doesn’t have access to the alley.
Mr. Anderson showed the boundaries of the alley on a map and pointed out lots 4 and 5, the Sy Johnson
Ditch, and Poppies.
Ms. Cailin asked if Eighth Street will just be constant parking.
Mr. Spears stated that there are supposed to be better street trees, a sod strip, curbs, and sidewalk.
Ms. Cailin stated that there was very little onsite parking when Poppies was approved. She stated that
the parking for these properties will not be self-contained.
Mr. Spears stated that there is room for parking between the street and the sidewalk and curb.
Ms. Cailin stated that there is no space where they build the alleyway.
Mr. Spears replied that there is supposed to be parking parallel to the curb that is eight feet wide.
Mr. Rawley stated that parking won’t be exacerbated by this development. Poppies is a different
matter.
Mr. McKnight asked if there is further public comment. Seeing none, he turned the meeting over to
commissioner deliberation.
Mr. Marcoux stated that he likes it.
Ms. McGovern stated that this is creative solution to the standard.
Mr. Walterscheid stated that he agrees with Mr. Marcoux and Ms. McGovern.
Mr. Marcus stated that his initial concern was having an expansive wall but understanding that it’s still
below what’s allowed gave him perspective. Having the setbacks and the articulation is the goal.
Mr. McKnight stated that he agrees with the applicant and City staff that this does a better job at the
intent than the barbell diagram.
Mr. Marcus motioned to approve the resolution, number to be assigned. All commissioners voted yes.
All in favor, resolution approved.
OTHER BUSINESS
Running Commission Meetings Article
Mr. McKnight stated that he wanted to discuss with everyone how the meetings are being run since he
started as chair. He asked what the group expects for public comment. Sometimes the back-and-forth
with the public is helpful and sometimes not and goes on too long. At what point do we cut it off?
Mr. Marcus asked if public comment is supposed to be a statement or a Q&A dialogue.
Mr. McKnight stated that he has noticed that applicants often try to make a statement regarding how
they stand on a topic in response to a comment.
Ms. Phelan stated that it should generally be statements, but sometimes questions for the Commission
can be valid. They should be addressing the Commission and they can say: “we’ll have the applicant
respond to that question at the end of public comment.”
Mr. Marcus stated that Mr. McKnight should keep track of the questions to be answered and they can
become part of deliberation but prevent it from becoming a dialogue.
Mr. McKnight stated that he will shut down any follow-up that tries to happen.
Mr. Marcoux stated that we need to stay consistent across every meeting.
Ms. Bryan stated that the time limits are generally for consistency. If there aren’t boundaries, the
meetings have the potential to get completely out of control. If there are no rules in place, it looks like
you’re treating people differently.
Mr. McKnight asked what information we can include for the public in the agenda.
Ms. Phelan stated that the agenda already outlines a typical public hearing. She can always explain the
procedure for public comment at the beginning of the meeting when there are members of the public
present.
Mr. Marcus brought up an incident from a prior meeting where a member of the public wanted to
continue to make comments beyond the commend period. He asked the best way to control the
meeting during a situation like that.
Ms. McGovern explained that it was a member of the public who didn’t feel heard. There was no other
way to make that person feel heard. She ended up politely telling that person they needed to stop
talking after allowing him to speak at least twice.
Ms. Bryan stated that what he did was an inappropriately timed outburst. The way to address that more
formally would be to adopt formal rules of decorum.
Mr. McKnight asked what the process is for adopting those.
Ms. Bryan stated that those would need to be adopted via resolution.
Ms. McGovern asked if there are examples that they can use.
Ms. Bryan replied that City Council and APCHA have adopted them. They are to put the public on notice
that there are steps the Commission is going to follow if conduct crosses certain lines. You can’t infringe
on free speech rights, but courts around the country have upheld rules of decorum. They could be
posted online and attached to the agenda.
Mr. Marcus stated that it would be good to define what the rules are, adopt them, and attach them to
the agenda for something to point to.
Ms. Bryan stated that it would give protocol for removing someone from the meeting if their conduct
becomes threatening.
Mr. McKnight asked how long City Council’s are.
Ms. Bryan replied that they are a few paragraphs.
Mr. McKnight stated that he’s happy to read them at the beginning of the meeting or at the opening of
public comment if there is a hearing that seems like it will be contentious. He asked what the process is
for passing a resolution.
Ms. Bryan stated that she can put together a draft and include it with a memo in the packet. The
commissioners can vote on them and provide feedback. They are pretty standard across a lot of
municipalities.
Mr. Marcus stated that he would like to see Planning and Zoning members keep themselves more
accountable and not veer off into personal rants that may not have anything to do with the application.
He would like to see Mr. McKnight re-direct the commissioners.
Mr. McKnight asked if that should come from him or Ms. Bryan
Ms. Bryan stated that that is within Mr. McKnight’s role. She tries not to be seen as giving legal advice.
She will step in if something is very blatant.
Mr. Anderson stated that he has noticed that there are applicants that have a tendency to interject
during commissioner deliberation, which disrupts that process and takes it in a different direction. He
stated that that is their prerogative, but it is questionable in terms of Roberts Rules and it can often
raise confusion in already difficult discussions that have transpired.
Mr. Marcoux asked how to cut off applicants if commissioners have asked them a question during
deliberation.
Ms. McGovern stated that it should go through the chair.
Mr. McKnight stated that the commissioners can ask him to ask a question. Then he will make it clear
that it is a question and answer.
Ms. Bryan stated that, as it says in the article, deliberation is not a negotiation.
Mr. Walterscheid stated that public comment is the community’s opportunity to have a voice. He is in
favor of giving the applicants an opportunity to continue the hearing if it seems like the commissioners
are not in favor of their proposal.
Ms. McGovern asked how many times the applicant can continue.
Ms. Phelan stated that continuance is completely at the discretion of the chair or the Commission.
Ms. Bryan stated that the commissioners have to vote on a continuance and they can vote “no.”
ADJOURN
Ms. McGovern motioned to adjourn the meeting at 5:28 PM. Mr. Walterscheid seconded. All in favor,
motion carried.
Jeannine Stickle
Records Manager