HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.apz.19840320 RECORD
Vice Chairman Welton Anderson culled the meeting to order
5:03 p .m . with commissioners jasmine Tygre Lee Pardee, er «
White' Roger Hunt, and Paul Sheldon, «lter»u e't J«vi�
, present.
COMMISSIONERS'_COMME�TS
At the request of Alan Richman, planning office Roger Hunt
moved to hold the planning and zoning commission
the 18th and 22nd of May; seconded b J o» meeti»gs o»
favor; motion curried , y Jasmine Tygre. All in
Roger OMPTYP
Hunt moved to adopt the minutes of March 6 1984 ith
the following correction: change "RVO" on the �i rs t w
°RBO. " Seconded by Jasmine Tygre. All in favor; motion cp«geeto
OLD_�USINESS�__CURTON�MADSEN_�OT_LI#E_ADJUSTM�NT
David White excused himself from the case.
Colette Penne, planning office, introduced the case . he request
is u lot line adjustment to an east-west lot alignment rather
than the present north-south alignment. Parcel "B" ^ the south
lot, was formed through u lot split procedure When Donna Cu southern
bought the lot she went through GMP exemption to locate r�o»
unit as u deed restricted employee unit The two « tseco»d
units on the lot upset the Mudsens They had unit.
d o potential
bought their house that lot would^ be limited to«mesinwAe»futhey
mouse. Curton went through the GM, exemption and y �� family
duplex right The solution ' » received the
l . the , was suggested by Council to switch
o�� ^c e eust-west configuration making the lots the same
size as the original north-south configuration.
The planning office's problem is that the entire proposed lot
t
for neconstruction of the duplex is at least 64% slope and
high zg h us 67%. She indicated that Section 20-9 ( u ) of th e
code, the suitability of land for subdivision, was not adequate!--.-
answered. That section reads "bused on findings by an engineer
engineering geologist or other Professional , »
planning and zo i '
is to determine whether the land should be e�o
subdivided or wh � ng
it is unsuitable for reasons of flooding, rock slide mud cer
steep topography, etc , " , reep,
1
' .
`
RECORD_OF_pROCEEDHGS
Penne submitted u building envelope which showed the projection
of u proposed house from the slope and the magnitude of the
hillside cut. The proposal is to position the house into the
hillside approximately 21 ' and u deck would extend an additional
6' beyond that.
She questioned the identification of the yards. Bill Drueding,
planning department, indicated to her that what is shown us
the 5' side yard will be the front yurd . If this finding is
firm , the house will have to be moved down the millside five
additional feet. Pardee asked if the zoning of the house is
R-6, is there u lO' front yard setback. Penne said yes.
Penne is concerned about the luck of findings by u geologist
and engineering geologist. The commission should review that
information to determine the suitability of the site. Studies
are not offered in the application nor has there been uny proposal
to assure that any problems which might be caused by the construction
will be addressed and mitigated. If the commission is inclined
to approve this, add u condition asking for immediate revegetution
of the hillside and one which addresses erosion and drainage.
There are certain sections of the code written to provide review
mechanisms for sites with high visibility, for viewplune reviews,
for 8040 greenline, for steep slopes, and for proximity to flood
plains ( stream margin review ). This site is technically within
the limits of stream margin review but it is not u problem and
the lot should be exempted. Mandatory PUD requires that slope
reduction be considered for u building site. There is not u
mandatory PUD on the parcel because there was u flat buildable
site. This present solution on the slope was not anticipated.
There may have been u PUD zoning when the lot was zoned.
Pardee asked about the FAR. Stun Mathis, architect for the
applicant, calculated 6,000 square feet.
Penne said if the commission could apply slope reduction as
per mandatory PUD, there would be no density credit allowed
for uny land in excess of 40% slope. Therefore, if this was
designated PUD the commission would not allow its development.
The planning office does not feel this alternative is better-
than the former flat building site. The planning office recommends
denial . If the commission is inclined to recommend approval ,
2
RECORD_OF_pROCEEDI��GS
there are six conditions which should be attached to the recommen-
dution to Council . Whether the commission denies or approves
this, planning office approves grunting the request for parking
exemption to allow the provision for four parking spaces ruther
chun five.
Pardee asked the applicant what is the size of the proposed
structure. Stun Mathis is planning u 1 ,300 square foot employee
housing unit, and roughly, 1 ,800 square foot free market unit.
Pardee suggested the applicant make u commitment to 3,500 square
feet. Mathis would commit to 3,500. Purdee's concern with
the envelope is the 4,000 square, that is u monstrous structure.
3 , 500 square feet is more acceptable. The concern is the public
view entering town. The original envelope occupied the entire
hillside.
Tygre questioned slope reduction. Would the 3,500 square feet
be calculated in the PUD figures? Mathis said no . He noted
� even before this lot line adjustment request, and without any
review process at all , the building could be sited on the side
slope to the maximum FAR. The applicant would commit to u maximum
FAR.
Mathis said the applicant would accept the request to revegetute
to the extent it is vegetated currently, the request for engineering
studies prior to final approval , and the request to address
erosion concerns. The building envelope has been indicuted .
He questioned the magnitude of the slope cuts. Penne indicated
he has already shown how deep the cuts will be. Pardee believed
the deeper the cuts the better, the building will not be so
visible.
Mathis noted he is not building off the face of the slope , but
buck into the hillside. Pardee preferred building five feet
lower, it would be less offensive to the Mudsens' viewplune.
Hunt -asked if that is five feet horizontal or surface? Mathis
answered it is horizontal distance.
Penne directed u question to Burry Edwards, city attorney.
She was pre-opting an application of an existing home in Castle
Creek. The request is to build u second kitchen. Therefore,
the home becomes u duplex. The applicant has u 7,800 square
foot lot. The applicant has to apply slope reduction because
the lot is in the PUD. If the 30,000 square foot building site
3
is not met, the units will not be allowed . Is it due process
to ignore the steepness of the slope and allow the two units?
Edwards said the Curton application does not have u mandatory
PUD. Mandatory PUD procedures cannot be applied to this slope .
To apply it would be u denial of due process.
Hunt agreed with the planning office's recommendation. He also
believed the deeper the building could be sited into the hill
the better. But the building will still be quite visible from
the highway. The lot is not u satisfactory building site. Sheldon
concurred with Hunt .
Connie Madsen noted Knecht did suggest the commissioners contact
her to review the property to show the commissioners what an
unsatisfactory building lot is, the lot the duplex was originally
approved to be built on. The lot is very small . The lot zs
the backyard of her house. If Curton is allowed to build there,
Curton 's house would be ten feet from all the windows that provide
the light for her home. Her home would be ruined. Curton has
been kind enough to work around this problem with the help of
the City Council . The neighbors do not want this. She commented
no commissioner came over to review the lot from her home.
The property is landlocked. Access would be through her property
and the Bergmun's.
Pardee favored the application. In support of those who may
oppose this, the responsibility of the commission is first to
the city-at-large, the citizens, and tourists, then to the neighbor-
hood , then the individual property owners. There is definitely
u greater visual impact to the citizens-at-large by locating
the building on the hillside. They may commiserate with Madsen,
but the commission is charged to protect the integrity of zoning
and the public . Madsen understood. But the current proposal
is not noticeable. Pardee explained the commission is not un
architectural review committee.
Dick Knecht presented some history. He agrees with the planning
office , the current proposal is not proper . But the alternatives
are worst. There is an unvucuted alley. The neighbors consolidated
their yards together there. It is u nice older, part of town .
Curton mad the right to come through the alley, and destroy
the landscaping. The residents were unhappy. The original
concept would have ruined the neighbors' and Mudsens' situation.
Council tried to appease all concerned and came up with this
4
'
RECORD-OF-PROCEEDINGS
alternative. Nothing is good. But Curton does have u right
to build . Rather than violate everything in the neighborhood,
Knecht believes this is the best alternative , although it is
not ideal .,
Doug Allen, representative for the applicant, submitted some
photographs of the property taken from the bridge from u wugoneer ,
and two feet higher. The area is not pristine. There is u cyclone
fence and phone wires. At the lust meeting most of the commis-
sioners could not even recall what was on the other side of
the bridge. The visual impact has been overstated . The applicant
has the right now to build over the hill on the existing lot
without the lot line adjustment . The visual impact of the proposal
would not be uny more than what is there at the present time.
Donna Curton, applicant, cited u situation at Boulder where
one entered the streets through someone else' s property, culle�:!
______lots. It is unattractive. She did not wish to see thzs
become u precedent in Aspen.
Lee Pardee moved to recommend approval to the Council of the
Curton-Madsen lot line adjustment with the six conditions contained
in the planning office memorandum, "Curton-Madsen Lot Line Adjust-
ment , " dated March 20, 1984, page three, with u seventh additional
condition that the building be limited to u FAR of 3,500 square
feet . In addition, he moves to approve the reduction of parking
as proposed by the applicant. There was no second.
Roger Hunt moved to recommend to City Council to deny the lot
line adjustment for Curton-Madsen because of the steep slopes,
visual impacts of the unnecessary extension of the development
pattern, and the greater suitability of the original lot site.
He included in the motion to forward to Council the plunniny
office' s recommendations of March 20, 1984, and u seventh condition
that the building be limited to u FAR of 3,500 square feet . It
is necessary that City Council know what they exactly are upproviny.
Also he moves to approve the parking exemption requested by
the applicant. Seconded by jasmine Tygre . A roll cull vote
was requested by Anderson: Tygre, age; Anderson, nag; Pardee,
nag; Hunt, age; and Sheldon, age. Motion for lot line adjustment
was denied, parking exemption was approved .
RECORD_OF_pROCEEDINGS
Penne presented revised plats. She said the engineering department
is the applicant along with the water department. The engineering
department worked with her as she revised the new plat . Lust
year Council adopted Ordinance 18 which adopted this especially
planned area for the City of Aspen water treatment plant . An
omission from that plan has been identified. There are three
small storage sheds which are actual physical barriers to the
construction of the new treatment plant . They have to be demo-
lished . They will be replaced by u new storage facility of
1 ,000 square feet. The original three buildings total floor
area is 425 square feet. The increase space is needed to store
the treatment chemicals, chemicals which are precluded by law
from being stored inside the water treatment plant. A separate
building is required.
This amendment to the SPA plan removes three sheds, includes
the proposed storage building' and moves the fence to encompass
the buildings. This plat properly conveys the full property
plan . When Ordinance 18 was adopted with public zoning for
the property there was u reduced version of the site plan recorded
us an exhibit to the ordinance. The engineering department
requests the full size plan be recorded as the SPA plan. The
umendment clears up the omission and provides u full size SPA
plan..
Penne noted the changes mentioned in the fourth paragraph, page
one, of the planning office's memorandum "City Water Treatment
Plant-SPA Amendment, " dated March 20, 1984, have been made,
The SPA data section was confusing and the FAR has been revamped. The
FAR is .08: 1 on this property. Parking areas were requested
to be specifically shown on the plat. The proposed water plunt
expansion appearance has been corrected.
She recommends approval of the amendment to the SPA for the
city water treatment to Council with the condition that the
full size site plan be recorded with three changes ( listed us
"A " , "B" , and "C" in the planning office memorandum dated March
20, 1984 ). Anderson asked what is meant by "full size . " Penne
explained lust time attached to the ordinance was u legal size
sheet which only took the developed part and showed the luyout
of the water treatment plant. It did not show the entire property.
Therefore, there was an inaccurate depiction of FAR und the
total site.
6
.-`
RECORD_OF_PROCEEDI�GS
Chuck Roth, engineering department, added that the document
has been recorded pursuant to Ordinance 18. It is in the clerk's
office with signatures,,
Jim Murkulunus, water department, clarified why there is u need
for the increase in storage space. In addition to the shed
that exists, presently all the activated carbon which is prohibited
in the plant is stored outside on the north side of the building'
covered with tarp. The net effect will be more pleasing if
all the present chemicals stacked outside can be located inside
The visibly unattractive sheds will be removed. ^
hunt asked if "c " in the recommendation no longer applies. Penne
said yes. Hunt asked if the chemical storage is relatively
dungerous . Murkulunus said the carbon can be explosive in u
wurm, dry locution. The carbon is like coal dust and should
the bug break in the plant it would be u mess .
- Anderson closed the public heuring.
Penne directed the commission to delete "u " and "c " of her recom-
mendution. The delineation of the Parking spaces on the plot
needs to be done. It is shown in the data section that there
are certain parking spaces ulloted to certain areas like the
caretaker's house and the maintenance building, but they need
to be shown on the plot, "B" becomes "u" . Hunt asked if it
is necessary to sag full size site plan since this is going
to be recorded. Penne said not necessarily.
Roger Hunt moved to recommend approval of the amendment to the
special area planned for u city water treatment plant Pursuant
to Section 24-7.2( d ) with the following condition that the parking
spaces be delineated on the plat; seconded by Jasmine Tygre
All in favor; motion curried. ^
PUBLIC_HEARING:__GMQS_CODE_AMENQMBNTS
Alan Richman, planning office, presented four administrative
issues The language reuds .."° the project must be essential
and publicly developed. Does it mutter whether an essential
project is governmental or private? He believes that publi`
�
or private is not the issue. Hunt cited Ruby Park , developed
by u private entity as u transit center, and it is essentiul
But under the present rule it is not exempted. Richman indicated
�
7
'
RECORD_OF_pROCEEDI|�GS
it would not apply as an essential governmental project . Any
project which has u quasi-governmental status, e.g . ' school
district, is not u governmental fucility. The performing arts
center is u questionable essential fucility. It clearly is not
u public project . He did not know if it should be considered
an essential facility or not. It is u community facility
one sense. The question is should that kind of project even
have an opportunity to present itself as an essential fucility.
The language currently does not provide for that., ^
Tygre asked how is "essential " to be defined is the problem
If very specific criteria is not provided to evaluate 'essential ''
^
there will be many problems. Pardee disagreed . He recommended
u procedure for u hearing before planning and zoning with u
recommendation to Council as to whether u � is essential
Richman related that in the lust evaluation f this, it wu ^
-
impossible to define "essential . " e" Th ~
some conclusion was reached
that Pardee suggested.
Anderson suggested expanding "essential " to include governmental
Projects and community facilities, broaden the language. Richmun
said the issue is whether one thinks other projects besides
governmental projects deserve preferential treatment . hut
is required? Could some essential facilities, e.g. , water treatment
ever compete? Is the bus maintenance essential? Or is the juil '
essential?
Tygre suggested broad criteria with conditional use language
attached. Define projects which would pgt be considered Define
whut the benefit to the community is to be, financial ,considered.
etc . Identify different categories under which the cultural ,
w c e commission
could consider, for example, u performing arts -c'n�'r Richman
did not approve of profit v.s. nonprofit as u- `� ^ Tygre
agreed , but state that is ngt the critical factor ,criteria.
cu uctor . Richmun
first used the dictionary definition of "essential , "
For exumple
food is an essential part of any community, therefore, u market
'
could be considered an essential community fu�ility. That is
stretching the definition perhups. He can try� to provide some
criteria to work with, perhaps defining "essential , " Tygre ugreed
She noted many times in these deliberations the determination
^
of whether something is essential is very personal . To the
extent that can be minimized that is helpful . Richman suggested
language "open to the community at large " as u criteria .
8
RECORD_OF_PROCEEDINGS
Edwards suggested investigating condemnation cases for ideus
The public entity who is condemning has to demonstrate there
^
is u necessity for public use. The courts consider what th=
criteria are for that aspect. The cases might provide ideas .,
White agreed with Purdee~s suggestion. Pardee noted community
goals change. A parking facility in the past may not be an
essential public need today. He wants the code flexible He
cannot predict the public needs. If the language is too restrictive
the code will have to be revised in order to exempt certain '
cases. Richman did not recommend u list of essential needs
Is " essential " something open to the community? Should an essential
Project provide u basic service that the community is dependent
upon?upon? He will provide u broad definition.
Secondly, Richman addressed the exemption of 70:30 and 100%
employee housing. The lust time P&Z reviewed this, the commission
requested all employee housing projects be deducted from the
quota system. He thought Council had agreed to that. At the
second reading, however, Council changed their position They
` q«o
requested thut 7O:3O pro �ects not be deducted from the ^ t«
That is inconsistent with the employee housing policy w''i ^`"
the commission just adopted in the GMPP update. What does t
commission recommend'.*? ' '=
White requested that 70:30 projects be deducted. Pardee agreed
with the deduction. He said it is u glaring inconsistency with
everything the commission has done to update the growth management
plan . Tygre and White agree with Pardee.
Richman addressed the expiration provision. The stuff has not
administered the procedure that the building program be required
within two Years from the date which the original growth management
application was submitted. The requirement has been to submit
plans to the building department within two years. ut this
has left the stuff in an ambiguous position because the plans
sit at the building department for long periods of time and
are not duely processed. The uniform building code sets out
certain Parameters, 180 days is allowed to get the plan check
completed, and another 180 days to get the building on the ground
The allocation does not jive with thut. In other words once
^
one has submitted plans to the building department , the allocation
is protected. That is the way the language reads now. The two
systems need to be interlocked. ^
9
RECORD_OF_pROCEEDIfVGS
Pardee suggested what the new hotel has agreed on with their
time table is something the commission should incorporate and
muke mandatory. The two years expires at the time when the
commission is engaged again in reviewing new applicants . �
the expiration was three months earlier, applicants would `
kno
how many units are available. He recommended allocations ruw
twenty-one months . »
Richman suggested it be less than three gears rather than two
Someone who is trying to get through the land use process wil �
have u twelve month period after receiving an allocation . -
they miss one building season after that they ure out ^
r
is u tight time framework.
^ That
Pardee argued Council might grunt an extension of the limit
He cited the Aspen Mountain Lodge. It has been through many
procedures. An extension could and should be granted . The
city suffers from the person who cannot get his general or �imit�d
partners together, the city suff'.�s An allocation i limited
which is not used If there - ^ s grunted
the use of the allocation^ ere s « legitimate reason for deluging
the applicant can come buck to Council
He favors twenty-one months for those who go through u reasonable
^
number of procedures.
White asked about the Pass situation. There were three different
competitions the applicant had to go through. Puraee said he
would have u legitimate reason to go to Council . Pass is an
exceptional case. He presented the first m lti
He was required to go through four different multi-use project ^
Pardee suggested perhaps it should be an administrative*» comPetitio»s^
determi-
nation
if the applicant has to go through inrdinunt number
of administrative procedures Anderson� ~' " r
based on u certain keypoint in the r s«ggested u time limit
the date when the allocation process. Richman recommended
the application. I o» s received versus submission of
. n response to someone applying in two ureus
from an administrative standpoint he would make the projec �
subject to this lust date the application was submitted I �
it is submitted in September November, and Jun ^ �
start the clock in January to b ' fair t 'th ««ry' one would
� o e applicant. White
said twenty-one months is too short �because money �s tight
Hunt suggested for the multi-GMP applications start the cloc�
upon the lust necessary approval for GMP Richman'' ^
Pardee is concerned with people who have u piece of u agreed.
��� land, . =`=^,=
1 O
un allocation, and do not have the financing . Someone with
allocation may sell the land. Others may let the the uelwcuti«»
expire . In the mean time, legitimate applicants do� c^ h o»
allocations. He directed Richman to review the not «»e
allocations elapsed. ow e Projects whose
. many projects have started after tw t
one months? en y-
Richmun wants the procedure clarified. A straw vote wus tuk
Pardee , Tygre, Hunt, White, Sheldon fuvored twenty-one months,,
Richman addressed the fourth issue: should Public
be required for any lot split. Lot splits are some of cthe«rz»gs
basic procedures. They are not particularly controversial emost
comPlicuted. Council wants to open them up to public ior
und to notify neighbors of lot Splits, This hearing
after the Curton-Madsen case. Richman s w«s questioned
lot split reviews Anderson's n «rg«ed for expediting
is that it is ^ » s e:Perience with one lot split
very controversial .
Richman clarified that the issue is lot splits not lot line
Planning office determines when pre-opting u case if ther s^
re
any issues or problems. If not the case goes to Council dirt«re
ec
why waste the commissioners' time. Why not act expeditiousl �y'
Anderson opened the public hearing and moved to continue h
Public hearing on Tuesday, March 27, 1984. «e e
TOP_OF_MILL_CONCEPTUAL_PUD
Sunny Vann, planning office, anticipates providing udditi l
information as the application proceeds through due o»«
He tried in the memorandum to briefly outline some of Process ^
concerns and issues and to explain the remaining the the
Process The 7OO S Galena ng s eps of due
Therefore,. . u enu project did receive u GMP allocation.
will be is out of the review process at this time. o»^
^l e uo essed again at preliminary PUD.
Council lust night directed planning office to draft u resol ti
granting conceptual PUD upprovul , subject to further discussion« o»
of some of the issues Council i ^
approval . e will keep the s Proceeding toward u conceptual
of the resolution,,
eP e commission posted of the final points
This discussion is for the remaining PUB, the Top of Mill and
11
RECORD-OF-PROCEEDINGS
Summit Place. He will give the applicant an opportunity to
present the basic program for this particular project. The
project is u reconstruction of existing residential units on
the property, therefore, the project does not require u GM!::'
allocation. The applicant must demonstrate compliance of the
proposal with regards to GMP regulations. There is u rezoning
request associated with this proposal as well . The rezoning
is not required for the purposes of the use proposed or for
the density since FAR will vary under PUD regulations . The
public hearing for the rezoning is scheduled for the April 1Oth
meeting. He requests the discussion of rezoning request be
deferred to that meeting, although it can be talked about tonight
generically if it relates to the proposal .
After the applicant makes the presentation, he will explain
planning office 's concerns surrounding the proposal .
He suspects as Council completes its work on the conceptual
PUD and awards quota, the applicant will come buck to P&Z und
discuss employee housing solutions. Once there is u firm count
on the units, the issue will appear on the agenda sometime in
April . All u9pects of the project will come together at preliminary
submission.
White asked if the project will be reviewed at preliminary
in Mug . Vann said he did not know. He does not know how long
conceptual Top of Mill will take. Optimistically Council will
vote on it next week.
Tygre asked how the units for reconstruction are counted . Is
u unit equivalent to u unit, whether it is single family or
Q duplex, or does u duplex count as two units? Vann explained
under the code kitchen and associated rooms, baths, bedrooms ,
ore counted as u dwelling unit. A duplex is two dwelling units.
Under the reconstruction provision there is no connection between
the number of rooms before construction and square footage of
the reconstruction.
John Doremus, representative for the applicant, introduced Ke
Top of Mill . ( He refers to u site plan and u variety of cross
sections displayed on the wall . ) The complex will be single
family and duplex configurations. There are three single family
units, the rest are all duplexes. They are located on five
and half acres. The units will be approximately 3,000 square
12
�
RECORD-OF-PROCEEDIy�GS
feet in size and three stories in height. The lower story will
be 50% below grade and will be built into the hillside . The
features are ski-in and ski-out access. The main ski-in trail
will access from the Little Nell area as well as from Fifth
Avenue . The ski-out trail will be between two buildings down
to the lift. Blomquist requests another ski trail to the Little
Nell area along an existing trail . Whether there is public access
is not known at this point. The applicant is willing to work
on that. There is u plan for two pools and low grade parking.
The other feature is u large open space easement adjacent to
the property which will be managed and maintained. Other feutures
include pedestrian orientation, access, and parking.
Summit Place is fairly simple. It was designed as u fourplex.
It is partially constructed with foundations and subgrude basement
for all four units. Two units have roofs . The third unit is
partially built. The applicant is proposing to eliminate the
fourth unit design and add one more unit to the two existing
units which already have u building permit. The third and fourth
units never received building permits. The applicant is acknow-
ledging one new unit. The applicant plans to eliminate the
fourth unit to provide u ski-in access not only to the hotel
project and 700 S. Galena, but to the entire neighborhood
The access also serves as u trail wag into the wilderness from
^
Dean Street. It is an important trail .
The plan is to use one unit for Summit Place and thirty-three
units for the Top of Mill . The applicant suggests using an allocation
of thirty-four units of the forty approved existing units
The remaining six units in the existing inventory would be granted
to the hotel . Summit Street is 5,000 square feet and Top o''
Mill is 240,000 square feet which is the five plus acres.
Doremus points to sections of the proposed Top of Mill . One
section is taken across the top portion of the site plun . The
vertical section is u north-south section up and down the hill .
This shows realistically what the grade is in the bowl . One
section shows the final underground parking plan which is under
the two large elements of the plan. The entrances to the parking
ure shown . There is u very limited exterior surface parking
for six curs off the streets. The streets were kept in u trudi-
tionul linear pattern following the old pattern of the city
streets . The vehicular access to the Top of Mill units is u
left and right turn to the underground parking. The plan is
13
RECO8D_OF_PROCEEDINGS
to eliminate the connection of Summit Street. The traffic planner
concluded the street serves no real purpose. The uniqueness
Of the plan is the pedestrian quulity. The garage plan shows
the possibility of driving to the guruge beneath the Top of
Mill units and accessing the units immediately through elevators
and the courtyurds.
Doremus discussed the solution of the fire control problem A
building located in the southern portion of the Top of ^ill
in the trees is, in effect, u stationary fire truck It'' is
Fully equipped as u fire truck should be. Those elements that
wouldbe difficult to move from the fire station to the outlying
area to the actual condominiums themselves, the hoses and ludders
etc, would be housed in those structures so that there would '
be no long hauling of any equipment. The only requirement is
the fire fighters get to the structures. That is the proposed
solution. This solution has been applied to other areas successfully
and has met all fire safety regulations and insurance requirements
The applicant expects to engage u fire control consultant to ^
Provide specifics at the preliminary stuge.
Doremus said u consideration of u PUD project is one takes liberties
und varies what is normally permitted in various zones as u
tradeoff for certain public benefits and improvements . Doremu'.�-
listed the major benefits the applicant is proposing as u resul``
of the PUD which would improve the neighborhood. ^
1 . Open space is 53% as opposed to the required 25% for
this zone. Included in the 53% open space is two
and u half acres of open space easement which was
previously mentioned.
2 . All parking on the entire PUD is underground , none
of which is required.
3. The applicant is providing quality accommodations
on the entire eleven acres.
4. The applicant will remove all the unsightly, substandard
facilities . None will be retained.,
5. The applicant has integrated u landscape and streetscupe
,
plan on the entire eleven acres.,
1 4
`
RECORD-OF-PROCEEDIyfG8
6. The applicant is bearing all the utilities .
7. The applicant is providing u major trail link and
construction of u ski easement which will benefit
the entire neighborhood.
S. The applicant is making substantial water and sewer
line improvements and proposing u sophisticated and
communitywide drainage plan. The drainage plan is
something provided for the entire neighborhood.
Joe Wells, representative for the applicant, addressed the parking
and circulation issues. First, TDA, who has done all the trunspor '
tution work on the project to date, was retained to examine
the real need for parking on the project. Their assumptions
were bused on 100% occupancy in the winter, 80% occupancy in
the summer, 1 .5 spaces per one and two bedroom units, and 2 .5
spaces for three and four bedroom units. They concluded that
the peak winter demand for Top of Mill was seventy-five spaces
and for Summit Place five spaces. There are currently eighty
spaces at the Top of Mill and six spaces at Summit Place,,
TDA's conclusion that u reduction was appropriate was bused
on past reports. The concern was how applicable was that work .
Since then, TDA begun u preliminary study which commenced u
few weeks ago. TDA came to town and did u week long survey
of parking demands. That report will be available shortly.
But at the present, the actual demand will probably be less
than the figures which have been used to date.
The basic assumption on circulation is that the thirty-four
units at the Top of Mill and Summit Place will be generally
tourist oriented and therefore generate less traffic than the
existing long-term units.
Anderson asked if these units would be managed like the Gant.
Will the units be taken off the market? Wells answered thut
the occupancy characteristics will be somewhat lower than the
more middle income units in the community. Nonetheless, all
the transportation related amenities associated with the hotel
will be available to these units. Anderson asked if the applicant
envisions in five years the units will be occupied only three
or four weeks out of the year. Doremus noted u study has done
on that issue. Bob Callaway, applicant, noted that these units
15
RECORD_OF_pROCEEDIMGS
will be in the million dollar range. He studied the Mountain
Queen which is comparable. Very few of the Mountain Queen units
are available on u lease basis, most are owner-occupied . Cohen
said out of the fourteen units, five are included in the rental
pool . Alan Novak, applicant, commented that the majority of
the units at the Top of Mill are expected to be owner-occupied
and not available for the short-term rental market. The owner°
occupant is expected to be transient. A good portion of the
gear there muy be no one in the units except u maid or u house-
keeper. Anderson explained the commission may react negatively
to the low occupancy rate in units located in the lodge district
of town. There is Proposal also to rezone to lodge-2, consequently
there should be active occupancy. Callaway commented that buyers
may be corporate buyers, and the units may well be used u lot
more .
Vann said the density, the curing capacity of the land, he
ability to build units there, and the ability to be consi '~tent
with both county and the land plan almost preclude multi-f^mily
type units. The intent is u low density transition area be 'ween
Q more dense traditional lodge district and the mountain. The
cost of u parcel of land of this size in that locution precludes
the ability to provide u unit that will be u short term rental
unit on u week to week basis in the traditional lodging sense ,,
The use plan intimates the units were not going to be u traditional
nightly lodging accommodations and that the frequency of use
'
was different than that of the lodge hotel .
Novak asked if it is the view of the commission that the Mountain
Queen is being misused. Anderson said no. Novak expects the
characteristics of the use of his units to be similar to the
Mountain Queen. Anderson said there is no benefit accruing to
the city, other than property tuxes, to have expensive reul
estate sitting vacant most of the time. There is no income
generated for businesses. Expensive, vacant structured do not
benefit anyone. A third of the Mountain Queen units are mid-
termed or short-termed. Vann argued although the units may
not be leased as short-term accommodations, the person owning
u unit in this price range may well lend its use to other people
which will bring people to town. The number of nights muy be
less but the expenditures muy be greater .
Pardee said the important thing is that the area is u transition
area , zoned R-15 and conservation. The project meets the intent
1 6
RECOAD_OF_pROCEEDINGS
of the land use plan, it is u transition area between the mountain
and the high density lodging area. Novak said the L-2 rezoning
request is consistent with the zoning of the surrounding structures.
The Mountain Queen and Fifth Avenue are L-2. This project is
between them. It is logical it should be L-2. The intensity
use is bused on available data of the complexes nearby. They
are expensive units. They are sited at u wonderful locution.
The owners will not necessarily put them in u short-term rental
market . Anderson said it is not necessarily appropriate t^
short-term million dollar units. -
Wells addressed circulation, u concern with engineering und
Hunt. The question is the closure of some of the streets is
of greater value than the trail-link. The applicant feels
it is more appropriate to encourage auto disincentives by allowing
skiers to ski buck into the heart of the lodge district and
then circulate to their units than it is to maintain the access
route. That is u judgement cull . The applicant tried to do
both with u skier bridge or underpass but the grades did not
lend themselves to thut. The natural grade is perfect for u
nruil . There is u 30% slope on the downhill side. There is
no room to adjust the difference in grades. The result would
be u steep pitch. Wells said TDA concluded it is inappropriate
to encourage circulation, especially in the winter , at the top
of two very steep roudwuys.
Hunt did not favor u transportation system requiring u road
crossing the trail in an effort to service Lift 1-A. But Lift
l-A has to be serviced eventually by some sort of transportation
system . He is not infatuated at all by the road . The project
fully covers more than two-thirds of the site at Mill Street
Mill Street narrows terribly near the bottom. All aspects 0.(-,
^
the project must be integrated. He disagrees with the engineering
depurtment. Mill Street, especially in the winter , is not u
adequate access. It is too narrow. Pardee asked if the applicant'
is within the zone setbacks. Hunt said the applicant may well
be.be. But, it is time to correct some of the sreet right of wuys
Why perpetuate u bud situation. The present plan does not address
^
Mill Street . Pardee said the applicant is addressing only the
top of Mill . Hunt said part of the problem is down at the botto
of Mill Street, it is choked. He also does not think the applicant
has addressed satisfactorily visitor parking as opposed to resi
' dentiul parking in the area . Aguin' the very narrow portion
of Mill Street at the south end is exacerbated . This is his
17
RECORD-OF-PROCEEDI�GS
major grievance with the project. The only adequate solution
now is no parking on both sides of the street.
Doremus said the parking has not been addressed because the
applicant does not know what the city wants. Does the city
want limited parking or angle parking, what? The applicant
cannot solve the problem because the applicant does not know
whut needs to be solved. Hunt said from u practical point of
view driving up Mill Street is u real problem in the winter
time . No improvements are provided by the applicant who owns
more than two-thirds of Mill Street. Wells said the applicant
to committed to participating in the improvement district to
address these issues. Off-site problems would be better deult
with through improvement district discussion than through the
commission discussion, because these are citywide issues , or
at least districtwide issues that go beyond the scope of this
project . The applicant agrees the problem should be examined.
Anderson suggested it would be appropriate for this discussioo
und for the next few meetings to identify problems and not neces-
surily to resolve them at this time. Doremus encouraged the
commission to identify problems so that the applicant could
respond to them. The architect is more capable of answering
questions dealing with the actual design and siting of the units .
The architect will be here next week. Doremus is happy to try
to answer some of those questions but it might be better to
wait until next week.
White expressed support for the ski access, but he is concernec
about the access to Lift 1-A. He wants to keep that open bu�
not necessarily as u street. Doremus said the commission can
decide on u trail or u road. White is opposed to City Council 's
suggestion to reduce the applicant's parking responsibility. There
is u benefit derived from the applicant dealing with the parking.
If the applicant is not required to address the parking then
parking on Mill Street needs to be addressed. Doremus said,
even if Council chooses to reduce parking the operator may not
agree to that. The operator wants to run u four-five star hotel
operation and adequate parking is mandatory. "Adequate" is
defined as what is really needed not necessarily what the code
requires or what the city concedes to. The same attitude applies
for the Top of Mill . Most likely the applicant will adhere
_ to the principal of what is needed will be provided. White
agreed with that . The applicant appears to be offering some
1 8
RECORD_OF_PROCEEDINGS
solution which will alleviate some of the Mill Street problem.
Vann deferred his comments to u later time.
Wells addressed water and sewer. He has letters from o,th serv1ces
supporting that there is adequate capacity. He described in
the post all the anticipated improvements of the two systems .
One of the issues with regards to the 8040 elevation is the
adequacy of water pressure. The applicant is committed to boosting
the water pressure which is presently inadequate for the upper
units. There are two elements to the storm drainage. The applicant
proposes to deal with the on-site problem with either on-site
ponds or by handling the peak water in the parking structures .
Presently it is unresolved. The issue evolves around 16 ,000
cubic feet. The second and larger issue is the off-site storm
drainage. It is u severe community concern which has never
been dealt with. The applicant proposes to help the city solve
that problem by providing 2.75 acre feet of storage in either
detention ponds in the areas above the dwelling units or working
out an agreement with the ski company to deal with the problem
at u higher elevation on the mountain. A hundred gear storm
problem at this time cannot be dealt with.
Vann said the basic reviews required for this application are
conceptual PUD subdivision, review of the proximity of the units
to the 8040 greenline ( which s u P&Z only review ), and viewplune
review since the structures are impacting the Wheeler Opera
house viewplune. While there are strict reviews each issue
is directly related to each other in the conceptual PUD submission.
Vann clarified this is not u published public hearing. There
was u mixup on the public hearing for the rezoning. That public
hearing is scheduled for April 10th. There is no public hearing
requirement for 8040 viewplune and/or conceptual PUD but it
is the general practice to take public comment.
Vann proceeded to discuss the planning office's review of the
application. The site involves u land trade with the Koch Lumber
property. There are approximately eight lots at the top of
Mill Street which are currently public , conservation , and owned
by the city. The applicant proposes to trade the Koch Lumber
property for those eight lots. At this time the proposed trade
has not been considered by Council . Council will use the planning
and zoning commission's recommendation with respect to this
in determining the appropriateness of the trade. For purposes
19
_
RECORD-OF-PROCEEDINGS
of the commissioners' review he requested that they assume thut
those lots are available for development by the upplicunt.
If the commission has substantial problem with the concept ,
he would convey that recommendation to Council . Assume those
lots are part of the parcel in question and review the application
on its merits.
The planning office concluded after reviewing the conceptual
PUD concerns the proposed site design is consistent with the
design requirements and the intent of the PUD regulations.,
Architecturally the building is being clustered . Open space
is being maximized. Lund use planning indicates u reduction
in density as u transition between the more dense lodge development
and adjacent mountain and open space. The use of single family
duplex configurations is appropriate for this site. Locating
the parking below ground maximizes open space. Views of the
surrounding mountain are maximized .
There are u number of areas of concern which warrant further
discussion by the planning and zoning commission. Some are
technical in nature, some design in nature.
The planning office at this time believes the visual impact
of the project is minor. The view of the site is restricted
to the view on Mill Street unless one is at the upper level
of Mill Street near the site. The single family duplex nature
of the project will serve not to block the lower portions of
the mountains. He requested for the 8040 greenline review more
detailed information at preliminary PUD which will enable the
planning office to provide u better evaluation of the elevation
of the building and the visual impuct. He suggested formal
action on the 8040 greenline review take place concurrently
with the preliminary PUD approval , It is appropriate that the
8040 concerns be addressed at this time and these concerns passed
onto the applicant prior to preliminary PUD.
The engineering department and the planning office are concerned
with overall circulation in the area. The city has pursued
the acquisition of Summit Street for u number of gears. The
acquisition of an appropriate right of wag was part of the review
of the Summit Place duplexes. The purpose of that acquisition
wus to improve overall circulation in the area , primarily for
emergency vehicle access in the event other streets were blocked.
He concurs with the applicant there are trade-offs involved
20
RECORD_OF_PROCEEDINGS
with the trail which would link the upper site with the lodge
and the extension of Summit Street. At this time engineering
has recommended against any development activity which would
preclude in the future the use of Summit Street. The construction
of the trail appears not to do that. Reserve the right to address
that issue later. The applicant wants to make u case for not
extending Summit Street. Vann also wants to evaluate the additional
information from TDA. The trade-off does not need to be decided
upon now so long as the proposed improvements do not preclude
in the future u possible extension of Summit Street. Transportation
issues in general for the entire city will be reviewed, and
the major thoroughfare plan and all extension to it will be
dealt with at that time. Simply utilizing that for u trail
would permanently preclude the extension of Summit Street.
He is also concerned with pedestrian and potential skier access
to Lift 1-A, and more desirably to Little Nell . The effect
will limit vehicular traffic for skier drop-off in those ureus .
ideally u shuttle could be used like other condominium complexes.
Trail access would be helpful . The planning office is investigating
alternatives which would allow an east-west link. There is
accessible terrain behind the Alps but it is questionable whether
there is the ability to utilize the private property. The planning
office is exploring trail access between the two base lifts.
As it relates to this project, the proposed building does not
preclude those opportunities.
There is u concern about the impact of this pro ject on the Willoughby
Ski Jump and the ski club rope tow. The project Proposes us
part of the land trade to relocate the ski club building to
Q more appropriate locution and to reconstruct the fucility .
That is not u major concern. He understands that the ski company
currently maintains leases for the uses of the rope tow and
the base building on privately held property. The applicants
ure currently discussing with the ski company locating the rope
tow further up the hill . The ski company may no longer be interested
in maintaining the Willoughby Jump. He requests additional
information be provided with respect to the applicant's discussion
with the ski company with respect to those basic community fuci-
lities.
[hose are primarily the site design and visual considerations
at this time. He requests holding off on the 8040 greenline
until he has an opportunity to adequately assess the visual
21
RECORD-OF-PROCEEDINGS
impacts with more detailed sectional analysis , elevations, und
revised topogruphy.
Generally the planning office concurs with the reduction of
the parking proposed by the applicant, given the information
submitted to date. Similar investigation by the planning office
indicates that parking requirements for the nature of this operation
is excessive. The applicant is currently involved in an updated
parking survey in that area bused on peak season occupuncy .
Planning office is requesting the results of that survey to
further confirm the reduction of parking. He is also concerned
with parking on. Mill Street. The original application of the
hotel talked about u reduction in off-street parking, subsequently
it has been amended. He is not sure if that reduction included
all of Mill Street. He wants to discuss that area with respect
to circulation..
The primary concern with circulation is the access for merc�.,;
vehicles. The applicants recognized the difficulty in accessing
the site as currently designed. A fire engine cannot munuever
there. There are no comments from the fire department at this
time. The applicants are requesting to discuss in conjunction
with the engineering and fire department the nature of the proposal ,
the access problems in terms of the fire trucks, the ability
to evacuate people, and the elevators which access the parcel .
It is not an issue which is irresolvable at this time. He needs
additional information at conceptual 1evel .
The applicant is also requesting o vacation of u smcll piece
of Mill Street, at the very top of Mill Street. The east-west
street which appears at the top of Hill Street does not exist
Qt this time and will be constructed by the applicant. It will
probably be private with u gate house at the access of the project.
That east-west street requires u vacation just south of Mill .
The engineering and planning office would agree that particular
portion of Mill is not essential to overall circulation of the
area provided that the east-west street and the general circulation
and access to the fire station are acceptable to the fire depur-
tment. However, in the hotel review Vann wants to make sure
that u utility access is preserved. The applicant should demonstrute
the benefit which would accrue to the city as u result of the
city volunteering to vacate u portion of public right of way ,.
The issues are technical . There is no particular problem with
22
RECORD-OF-PROCEEDINGS
the vacation at conceptual level .
There is u rezoning request. It involves that portion of the
project which is currently zoned R-15 PUD L. It allows lodge
use subject to PUD approval in R-15 density and in R-15 use
in that locution. Those city lots above the 8040 greenline
are zoned conservation. He deferred discussion of the merits
of the rezoning to the April 10th P&Z meeting. This project
could be accomplished without the zoning. The rezoning is not
essential to the use. Single family duplexes are acceptable
in L-2 and R-15 zoning. Nor is it required for density since
the number of units is u function of FAR, and the FAR can be
varied in the L1 or L2 zoning in the PUD regulations . There
is u problem with the multiple zone districts, with PUD overlay,
and with the luck of specificity in the code on how to address
development rights. He is against the rezoning.
This application does not require an exemption from growth management
for reconstruction. No P&Z or Council action is required .
However, he proposes that reconstruction be run past P&Z for
verification purposes with attached conditions that might be
applicable. In this case there are forty existing units which
have been verified by the building department, in conjunction
with the planning office and the applicant, which are proposed
to be reconstructed. There are thirty-three on the Top of Mill
and one for the Summit Place triplex. The remaining six would
be constructed as part of the resort hotel for short-termed
condominiumizution. There are u couple of conditions he recommends
to be attached to that reconstruction. They are provided for
in the code. And they are not controversial .
The 8040 greenline review is popularly misconceived. The miscon '
ception is that construction is prohibited from the 8040 greenline.
All the 8040 greenline requires is that any development above
it or within fifty yards below it be reviewed for u variety
of technical problems which have to do with water pressure,
access, avalanche dangers, unstable slopes, etc . The major
nontechnical concern is the visual impact of u project which
would be developed near the 8040 greenline. This applicant,
is proposing to place three units above the 8040 greenline .
The portion of the site where the applicant is proposing to
build above the 8040 greenline is the base of u bowl which is
both natural and created by the excavation and general activity
of the area. This area is less visible than other portions
23
RECORD_OF_PROCEEDI�GS
which are below the 8040 greenline. The visual impact at u
conceptual level creates no problem. He does request that formul
action be deferred until preliminary PUD at which time there
will be more detailed site plans and elevations which will allow
better assessment of the impact .
The technical concern associated with the 8040 greenline is
water pressure. The engineering and water department identify
u problem in the upper units which the applicants have agreed
to mitigate with the installation of booster pumps. They will
be designed to the specifications which are satisfactory to
the water and engineering department.
He requests additional information from the applicants on access
after they have met with the fire department. The fire department
needs to assess the proposed solution.
The other concern is the subsurface mining activity. The mups
indicate very large stopes in the area. He requests some subsurface
exploration. He is concerned with the fill and the potential
subsidence. Those are issues which have to be detailed and
addressed prior to preliminary PUD approval,,
The other technical issue identified is the proposed drainage
solution which the applicant is willing to address for the entire
Aspen Mountain PUD site. There is u retention problem, the
nonpolluted snow melt runoff from the mountain. He is concerned
how that will be towed into the slope~ The actual concept which
the applicant has proposed will work quite well . He does request
more detailed designs.
The final issue is mountain viewplune review. The Wheeler Opera
House viewplune projects at such an angle that it intersects
the site below the Top of Mill proposal . The effect would render
all the development above that elevation of 7,800 feet within
the Wheeler Opera House viewplunes. The code provides when
that type of circumstance arises that PUD regulations will be
followed to minimize the blockage of the views of the adjacent,
mountains. He believes the application of the viewpine in
that context is Probably inappropriate. The viewplune regulations
were designed to control development in the foreground and to
preserve the views of the upper mountain. To u limited degree
the development of the Mason and Morse building and the variance
grunted has had the effect of raising the affected viewplune
24
RECORD-OF-PROCEEDI�GS
if one applies it stringently. The affected viewplune intersects
the site above the majority of the proposed construction. In
uoy event, none of the potential development appears to block
the views of the adjacent mountains from the origination of
the Wheeler plane, from Wagner Park, or any other open public
area in that vicinity of town. Once again, he argues the 8040
greenline regulations more aptly control scale, bulk , and engineering
concerns at that elevation of the mountain. For the purposes
of this application mountain viewplune considerations ore moot .
Vann did not provide any specific recommendations on the issue
of FAR . Council is still contending with the FAR associated
with lodge portion of the project. He expects following the
Council 's conceptual review to receive some FAR information
relative to this portion of site of the PUD as well as the overall
PUD itself. He believes FAR is not the issue. Depending on
how the code is interpreted, and methodology by which the commission
calculates FAR, the FAR can be any number desired.
Vann proposed following the public hearing on rezoning that
the commission consolidate its comments with the other referral
agencies in the planning office into u series of specific recom-
mendations which would approach u resolution. He asked if the
commission requires additional information on the areas summarized
here .
Pardee advised the applicant to treat the conceptual process
as u preliminary. He requested visuals of the mountain viewplune
and the Wagner Park viewplune because Council is going to require
this . Council seems to misunderstand the intent of u PUD. The
land is u transition area. It is zoned R-15 which allows sixteen
units. L-2 rezoning allows what is being asked. If one does
not understand the intent of PUD, one will view the rezoning
W on attempt to increase density. The applicant should be
aware that is the strategy certain councilmembers will take.
That is the crux of the entire problem. Council will argue
that this is u transition area zoned R-15, and allow only sixteen
units. PUD permits increasing FAR to best use the site . The
applicant should address that and the commission should review
that .
Hunt commented on transportation and circulation. Would the
applicant consider entering the garage straight from the top
of Mill Street rather than using the s-turn solution. There
25
RECORD_OF-PROCEEDINGS
is probably some rationale for that solution , but he would like
the applicant to consider using this method. The current solution
loses potential visitor parking spaces . Wells said that is
u design consideration which the architect will address next
week .
White requested Vann summarize reconstruction procedure.
Tygre left the chambers ..
Anderson commented that on the stretch of Mill Street near the
top there is low construction, but there are some good size
trees . How are those trees to be addressed? One should respect
where physically possibly the existing vegetation.
Callaway noted that the applicant has gone fur beyond the practiced
conceptual procedure. He would like to do that here. The commission
has addressed every issue Council has addressed but in u different
form . He requests the commission's input on these issues. The
commission can anticipate better than the applicant what needs
to be addressed..
Anderson adjourned the meeting at 7:25 p.m.
A_~~A .~_~I^°~_------------------------
Barbara Norris, Deputy City Clerk