HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.apz.19840403 RECORD OF PROCEEDINQS
Regular Meeting Planning Ate Zoning Commission April 3. 1984
Chairman Perry Harvey called the meeting to order at 5:00 p.m. with
commissioners Jasmine Tygre , Pat Fallin, Welton Anderson, Lee
Pardee , Roger Hunt and David White present.
MINUTES
Roger Hunt moved to approve the minutes of March 20 , 1904; seconded
by Jasmine Tygre. All in favor; motion carried.
CONTINUED HEARING; _�ROWTH MANAGEMENT QUOTA SYSTEM CODE AMENDMENTS
Alan Richman, planning office, continued to outline the revisions
on the language in the code.
(Tape damaged. )
Hunt questioned what "which" refers to on page seven, second
to the last paragraph of the new version, "which standard may
be employed. "
Richman discussed the employee housing section. "A" indicates
credit will only be given for housing which meets the housing
authority ' s guidelines . The applicant is encouraged to engage
in a pre-application conference with the housing authority for
guidance. "B" and "C" remain the same. "D" addresses credit
for housing provided in the metro area. Pardee suggested language
that on-site housing receive bonus points . Richman noted "E"
and "F" remain the same. Pardee suggested define "housing needs"
with the words low, middle , or moderate; clarify housing needs
with, for example, pricing categories.
Harvey opened the public hearing.
Richman continued. "G" addresses displacement of units which
are currently deed restricted to employee housing guidelines.
"H" deals with the amendment of deed restricted employee housing
between the property owner and Council. "I" articulates methods
applicants may use to obtain credits for housing : producing
new units , converting existing units which are not restricted
to Aspen's housing guidelines, paying an employee housing dedication
fee, etc.
Tail Dunaway , publisher of the Aspen Times , questioned if it
is a wise idea to encourage removal of units from the employee
housing pool ( referring to "H" ) . An owner has the right to transfer.
fie recommended deleting the paragraph. Richman said the language
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting__Planning -and-Zoning CommissioD April 3,-1-984
was in the original language of the residential quota system.
Harvey asked if a property owner has the right to replace his
employee housing with something else. He asked what the legal
implications are with the current language. Richman concluded
replacing "removed" with "transferred. "
The commission addresses dedication fees . Jim Curtis , housing
authority , said the intent of the change in the language is
to qive the GMP applicant and Council the opportunity to mutually
agree on employee housing. Many applicants find a commitment
in small increments difficult to fill . There is a need for
flexibility. And there is a need to influence the form of employee
housing, and in the case of the county, to also influence the
location of employee housing. (There is discussion over the
payment schedule for the employee housing dedication fee . )
The schedule is to be updated annually. Pardee questioned whether
the dedication fee schedule discouraged support of employee
housing over the free market sector . However , there is a need
to encourage development of employee housing. There is a need
also to encourage small diversified projects.
David White arrives in the chambers.
Dunaway asked why the fee decreased for low to moderate levels.
Curtis explained in the employee price guidelines low income
is restricted to 58 cents a square foot rent , moderate income
is restricted to 65 cents a square foot. One can afford to
pay more per the guidelines as the income level is increased.
Therefore, the subsidies decrease, just like the GMP points
decrease . Harvey said it may cost the same amount to build
a studio for low, moderate or middle income, but if the unit
is sold at low income, a larger subsidy is needed to cover the
gap between construction costs and rental fees. The intent is
to offset construction and rent.
Harvey questioned the projections for the length of time to
actually produce some housing. Jim Adamski , housing authority,
said housing may take a year to produce . Harvey is concerned
about the community impact of construction with no employee
housing to offset that. Richman referred to the park dedication
fee. Money is collected at the time of the issuance of the building
permit, and yet the open space is not purchased until the purchase
price is met. Harvey asked if the city now has land earmarked
for potential employee housing. ( Someone said no. ) Is there
any control on who gives and who builds. If someone has to
house one or two employees the choice may be to donate. How
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Regular Mee iD — P!anDina and Zoning Commission App �__ L_1984
about a large project where the impact is substantial ? Does
that applicant have an option?
(Tape is operational again. )
Richman replied the principal control is the housing guidelines
which are adopted each year. In a particular year there might
be a determination that because of the shortage of units cash
in the bank will not be beneficial . Annually, the viability
of tin options needs to be determined. Harvey said there is
no language saying the housing authority has the right to dictate
a method. He quoted: "applicants may obtain credit for providing
employee housing by any one of the following methods or combination
of said methods which is payment of employee housing dedication
fee. " Should there be some review criteria? Should there be
some ability for the housing authority to make determinations?
Are alternatives selected at the time of application? Richman
said yes. Harvey said it is not clear that the applicants must
state what alternative they are selecting. Richman said he
would make that clear in the application process.
Tygre asked if there is a provision in the scoring which differen-
tiates between payment of dedication fees and the production
of units. Harvey said scoring is the same. Credits for housing
can be obtained by any said methods or combinations of said
methods. Richman explained if the applicant provides money
for low income housing, it is scored as a low income representation.
Harvey suggested if the housing authority trys to build a fund
to build on some land, then the applicant may agree to contribute.
Fallin expressed concern that the dedication fee system might
meet the same fate as the parking fee. Hunt said the parking
fee was eliminated because the city did not provide parking
policy.
Harvey said it is incumbent upon the housing authority to be
prepared to act. There is no way to predict money supply .
There are no projections for past productions. There are no
pieces of property earmarked by the city. He quoted " funds
are proposed for planning site development, construction financing
of employee projects, and other uses approved by the Aspen City
Council . " The language states the funds will not be comingled
with general operating funds. There is no language specifying
that the funds be earmarked for some specific future use. Fee
payments can be invaluable if there is a piece of property .
Applicants may not provide what is necessary. But without a
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting —Planning and Zoning Commission _April 3. 1984
piece of property, without the ability to buy in advance, without
a set revenue source, there are problems.
Curtis replied dedication fees provide the opportunity to generate
a pool of funds and allow the _housing authority to purchase
or lease a piece of property and build. The only reason the
city would consider this is if the city wants the ability to
influence the form of housing and to deal with smaller increments.
If that is not the case, do not consider this.
White did not like the lag time. Most applicants will probably
choose the option of dedication fees rather than building units.
There is more time granted for payment of dedication fees .
The incentive is to give less. The language on page fourteen
should be stronger to discourage someone from circumventing
the commitment to the dedication fee like the parking fee .
Paul Taddune , city attorney, said dedication fees are subjects
of continual judicial review. Dedication fees in support of
utilities, and general municipal services have generally been
upheld. The two classic areas of dedication fees are parks
and school properties. Richman noted roads are receiving judicial
support and popularity. Taddune noted California courts upheld
a condominium impact fee of $5,000 . He is bothered by the housing
dedication fee.
Harvey argued there is a need for housing authority guidelines
on who gets to do what. A purpose for the money is to establish
a mortgage fund for the repurchasing of existing housing.
The growth management plan is dedicated to providing housing
to keep pace with development. If the dollars go into a fund
for mortgages to aide purchases of existing housing, nothing
is gained. There is growth with no offset. The growth management
plan is premised on growth paying its own way. This dedication
fee system with no backing of property, or no control on who
does what, is too nebulous. On the issue of land conveyance,
the housing authority has the right to sell the land or build
on it. If the given land is sold , it should be sold because
there is another piece of property which is planned for construc-
tion. It should not go into the mortgage fund.
Pardee said this area is incomplete. It falls under the purview
of the housing authority. The housing authority needs to evaluate
the options . fie suggested postponing any further discussion
on this issue.
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Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commis5_i_Q___Apr.J__3, 1984
Richman said Council requested lot splits be processed through
a public hearing. The commission disagreed , instead Council
should preside over the public hearing. Page sixteen addresses
that.
"E" deals with the change from essential governmental project
exemptions to governmental or community facilities. The basis
is now whether the project, public or private, profit or nonprofit,
is essential and merits some competitive advantage. There is
a need for an initial finding from the commission on the essential
nature of a project.
Harvey quoted from the bottom of page sixteen and top of page
seventeen : "the criteria includes that the project provides
basic or fundamental public services upon which the remainder
of the community is dependent for support, and is available
to the general public and serves primarily the local community. "
How does the Arts West proposal fall into that? Richman said
it does not. Pardee said if a project contributes to the popularity
of Aspen as a resort , the city needs to support that project.
The language "basic and fundamental" eliminates cultural facilities.
There is a need to support projects which demonstrate they are
in the best interest of the community.
Harvey asked if "essential" refers to governmental and community
facilities. He suggested the language "provides basic or fundamental
public services upon which the remainder of the community is
dependent for support . " Pardee and Harvey encouraged broader
language. Richman suggested "serves a public purpose. " Harvey
suggested "should be available for use by the general public. . .serves
the interest and needs of the local community. "
Richman said Section 24-11 . 3 "J" is the inconsistent section
of the employee housing section. Delete it.
Richman tried to bring some order to Section 24-11 .7 (Rescinded
and Expired) . It reads that people submit plans to the building
department for issuance of a permit not within two years but
within less than two years. Then if they cannot meet the deadline,
a fair warning is issued that the allocation be returned back
to the allocation pool for that year. Twenty-one months from
the submission of a G14P application deadline is the suggested
time framework.
Harvey asked about lawsuits. Richman said in the case of a
lawsuit, delay the time. Pardee replied that an extension can
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission April 3. 1984
be granted . Twenty-one months, plus the 180 days to submit
for a building permit, plus 20 months from the Uniform Building
Code, totals 53 months. The building department at its discretion
can give another six months for a plan check, another sip: months
to begin construction. Council can award another 180 days and
the Board of Appeals can award an unlimited number of days .
Four _years is too long. The intent is to quickly return unused
allocation back to the pool. There is a question whether the
growth management allocation has to be tied to the UBC, it is
a legal -question. Simple projects run on -a -tight time schedule ;
complicated projects can demonstrate hardship and be awarded
time extensions. He wants to discourage profit making in the
process also. This section is unsatisfactory.
Richman attempted to reduce the time to obtain a building permit
and to eliminate the allotment if the building permit is not
obtained within the reduced time. The old code did not tie
the two together.
Pardee requested a legal opinion on whether the commission can
alter the UBC code and requested a study session for this section.
David White moved to continue the public hearing to April 17 ,
1984; seconded by Roger Hunt. All in favor; motion carried.
CONTINUED HEARING] ARTS WEST BALLOT QUESTION RESOLUTION
Richman indicated include in Section 2 of the resolution the
finding that it is inappropriate to relocate Cap' s to the proposed
site because it may preclude a railroad right of way to the
Rio Grande property.
Harvey agreed with the "whereas ' s. " Section 1 deals with the
concern that the specific allocated parcel not preclude a parking
garage , and that parking be considered in conjunction with the
performing arts. Make the last sentence of Section 1 more specific
by requesting funds for a parking study for an initial study
of cost, land use, land required for "x" number of spaces , etc.
Fallin leaves chambers.
Andy Heck , representative for Arts West , noted that a studv
should be a comprehensive review of traffic. The parking is
not exclusively for the use by the performing arts center .
Harvey said the study should consider the Jerome, the city ' s
imuound lot needs , etc . The study should eXplore the option
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting _._ Planning a_nd Zoning Commission__ April 3. 1984
of locating Cap' s in the parking garage with an access off Spring
Street. Cap' s needs bays and a shop area. Cap' s could charge
clients for storing cars in the parking garage. It is ideal .
Heck said Arts West needs to proceed with its plans which may
or may not coincide with the master plan and the parking plan.
Harvey replied that Arts West needs to dovetail its plans with
Parking . Arts West has been naive about its parking needs .
It should be pushing for the parking. Arts West will not receive
approval of its plans from the commission without a parking
solution. Heck asked if the parking issue can be addressed
by Arts West . Harvey said Arts West ' s design team needs to
work with the city on a parking solution. Arts West is not
expected to fund the parking at this time.
Hunt said that the performing arts center project could potentially
preclude something in the parking garage area. Heck said he
understands that the project not preclude the parking facility
and that Arts West: cooperate with the solution.
White suggested change "should" to "must" in the sentence : "Further-
more, believes that the parking garage should be built in conjunction
with the performing arts center to insure that adequate parking
is available. . . " He encouraged pressuring Council to act.
Heck said Arts West has not been asked to participate in that
planning process . Harvey again recommended language in Section
1 that the commission encourages Council to allocate the necessary
funds to complete a parking garage study (dealing with land
needed and the number of spaces needed) within the next six
weeks . The study needs to be completed before the election
date. It is incumbent on the city to act on this now. He wants
to be assured that Arts West ' s actions will not preclude land
for parking or a transportation center.
Harvey suggested :including in Section 2 language that the parking
garage incorporates Cap' s Auto Supply.
Richman read the change to the last sentence in Section 1: "Further-
more, the commission recommends that the City of Aspen move
forward immediately to develop plans for the parking garage
to insure that it can be built at the same time as the performing
arts center by allocating funds for a study of the parameters
for its design and which study should be completed prior to
the vote on the ballot question. "
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning_ anI Zoning Commission April 3,,-1984
Hunt said he does not want to lose sight of the transit facility
use of that area. Harvey suggested including transit facility
into the last sentence also.
Richman added to Section 2 : "including other sites on the Rio
Grande property (including within the garage itself) . "
Pardee suggested strengthening the first sentence of Section
3 . The commission does not want to subvert the intention of
the code and use zoning to achieve other purposes. White agreed.
Heck said the intent is not to subvert the existing zoning .
The intent is to achieve a 1 : 1 FAR. Pardee said a 1 :1 FAR is
not required under a SPA or PUD. The current zoning will accommodate
whatever the applicant anticipates. Penne disagreed. She explained
that the zone is "0" , office zone, which is . 75 : 1 . It will
probably be rezoned public which allows the SPA to set the FAR.
Harvey asked if there is an underlying FAR in a public zone. Penne
answered no. The jail is .75: 1. Arts West is concerned Council
will interpret the FAR as .75: 1 based on the surroundings . Arts
West cannot live with that FAR ratio.
Tygre said the language as written is fine. The language indicates
that the commission is following the process. The process will
handle this. Harvey agreed. It is not good planning for the
commission to recommend a zoning change because Council seems
to rigidly adhere to the FAR underlying the PUD. Heck suggested
the entire Rio Grande for the FAR.
Hunt suggested adding " . . . the zoning review process is contrary
to good planning, and furthermore unnecessary, " Richman added
"and furthermore unnecessary because the FAR is set by SPA. "
Harvey said the FAR is not sacred. Heck agreed to this because
it establishes that FAR can be varied as necessary to accomplish
the purpose.
Lee Pardee moved to approve Resolution 84-3 , "The Arts West
Ballot Question, " as written in the planning and zoning memorandum
of April 3 , 1984, and as amended in this meeting with an additional
provision that the chairman be authorized to review the changes
to assure compliance with this meeting ' s changes, to sign the
resolution, and to pass it on to Council. Seconded by Jasmine
Tygre. All in favor; motion carried.
PUBLIC HEARING; THE ASPEN CLUB
Harvey opened the public hearing.
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission�April 3. 1984
Anderson requested that the planning office review the original
approval of the Aspen Club and review the presentations made
about the availability of the facilities to local employees.
Penne said this is one of the reasons for tabling the application.
Dunaway said the commission should not be concerned with the
cost of membership of a private club. There were no price agreements
in the original discussions. The applicant agreed to be open
to the public, nothing more. Dunaway warned the deal offered
to the city employees could be viewed as a bribe.
Helton Anderson moved to table the application to May 8 , 1984 ,
based on planning office ' s reasoning that the application did
not adequately address its impacts and the established criteria
for PUD amendments; seconded by Roger Hunt. All in favor; motion
carried.
Bunt leaves the chambers.
PUBLIC HEARING; ASPEN CHANCE PRELIMINARY PL
Penne updated the fire departments requirements. The hydrants
currently located in the vicinity of the project on Ute Avenue
and Elks Road will provide the access to the water required .
The additional hydrant (discussed in the memo dated April 3 ,
1984, from the planning office, page two, item two of the "Planning
Office Review") is not necessary. Access to within the required
100 feet of the proposed buildings is adequate with the 20 foot
width.
Other areas of concern, specifically the grade of access roads,
have been expressed by the commission and other offices involved
in the review process. Planning office is unable to comment
on the areas outside its area of concern. Additional variances
should be discussed with the different offices or with individuals
raising these matters.
Section 24-8 .15 in the code requires the commission consider
the appropriateness of the architecture within the guidelines
listed in the memo. The units have been sited on the property
for maximum privacy and minimum visibility. The roof lines
are varied to break up the mass. Natural materials are being
used.
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission April 3, 1984
The building department raised some questions . She refers to
a site plan posted on the board. There is a ridge effect in
'the design which sites a portion of some houses over the water.
The building department is concerned those houses could be converted
to bandit units. They meet the definition of a dwelling unit
with either a bath or kitchen facility. These units have two
baths . The applicant has suggested eliminating the outside
entrance , so the units can only be accessed through the main
house . This discourages people walking through the living areas
of the owner' s homes. The applicant also suggested a covenant.
Purchasers of the units will know that the units are limited
to a single family use. Owners of the three approved caretaker
units will be put on notice on the use . In some cases during
the winter those accesses are inaccessible.
The housing authority has reviewed and approved the employee
housing proposal. The units are considered duplexes. The lots
are 20 ,000 square feet, the requirement of the zone. The units
cannot become condominiumized. They have to remain rental units.
Condominiumization raises questions on the price category of
the units. The low to moderate income housing would be eliminated.
The existence of the current units creates a problem with condominium-
ization. The proposed free market units are verified as existing
or replacement units. Building rental caretaker units is sufficient.
The question of the elimination of the earlier units does not
come into this review.
Planning office recommends that the commission grant preliminary
plat subdivision, preliminary PUD, and 8040 greenline approval .
Recommend a GM P exemption for the construction of the three
deed restricted housing units. There are fourteen conditions
for preliminary approval listed in the memo on page seven.
Condition one includes all sixteen conditions determined by
the commission in conceptual review.
Penne eliminated the condition on the new fire hydrant. The
chemical analysis, number three of the new conditions, is deleted.
New condition fourteen, the Alps road and the tennis court parking
and access agreement will be formalized. She read a letter from
Jerry Fiewey saying "on Monday, March 26th, the Aspen Alps Board
of Directors met concerning the Aspen Chance request of the
utilization of the road for access to its subdivision . " At
that time the Board of Directors granted permission to utilize
the Alps Road for access to the Aspen Chance subdivision. A
document formalizing this agreement is being prepared. The
tennis court is being reviewed at the next board meeting. Penne
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission Avri _3__1 984
requested formal documentation of the agreement.
Harvey asked when these conditions should be satisfied. Penne
replied they are satisfied at different times. Harvey asked
about written agreements, such as number four to extend 6" diameter
water mains, he wants a timetable. Taddune said these are subjects
for subdivision agreement. Subdivision agreement is part of
final plat . Karen Smith, representative for the applicant ,
said those conditions necessary for preliminary PUD have been
satisfied.
Smith addressed some of the conditions. First, there is the
fire condition. The applicant meets the 20 foot minimum width
and the buildings are within 150 feet. There is an error in
the figure of the grade of the road. It is not 6-8% . The road
meets the subdivision design standards. These are private roads
and driveways. The other question is do the roads meet the
fire access standards. The fire department is more concerned
with the width and with the accessibility of the hydrants , not
with the grade. The grade is 12% . Penne quoted from a letter
by the fire department : "the road grades serving lot sir, and
seven we are unable to comment regarding these additional require-
ments because they fall outside our area of concern. " Pardee
asked Jay Hammond, engineering department, if it is engineering' s
concern. Hammond responded that because these roads will remain
private in nature, and the owners will be responsible for plowing
and maintenance, etc. , he is not concerned with the additional
2% . The maximum allowable grade for subdivision is 10% .
Pardee asked if there is any liability to the city if the fire
trucks cannot negotiate the road. Gideon Kaufman, attorney for
the applicant , said the applicant is not giving the city the
road because of the steepness. Inherent in subdivision is
a steepness in the road. Plowing has nothing to do with steepness.
If it was a 2% grade and not plowed, the fire trucks would not
be able to access. The issue is not the steepness but the lack
of plowing. Pardee asked again if a fire truck cannot access
a private road because of the steepness, the plowing, or a combi-
nation, is there liability to the city. The city has agreed
to serve the site.
Taddune explained there is a minimal liability potential to
the city because the city is not responsible for the plowing.
It is assumed the design to be approved is a reasonable design.
If the engineer says this is an acceptable design , then there
is no problem. He is the expert. Taddune does not want to
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ReQUlarMeeting Planning and Zoning Commission ARril 3a 1984
expose the community to a fire hazard. The law is difficult
to decipher. Municipalities are being sued for everything, .
There is always a certain amount of exposure to negligent approval.
Pardee said the experts are commenting on width not steepness .
By accepting responsibility to service the road, does the steepness
preclude accessibility. Kaufman said if there is no snow on
the road the road is serviceable. The degree of steepness does
not prevent the fire truck from accessing the road. Pardee
said the engineering department says from an engineering standpoint
the road is alright because it is private ; the fire department
says the road is wide enough , that is its only concern. But,
there is tacit acceptance of the obligation to service the private
road.
Taddune said these are good questions, but the question is the
maintenance of a private road. The city has no liability then.
If it is a design question, the liability may be there to the
city on some imaginative theory but it is minimal. Pardee said
the commission has never accepted a road with more than a 10%
grade and a 100 feet from the fire hydrant. Smith clarified
that the hydrant is located on the Alps Road, that is sufficient
for the fire department to service the development.
Smith addressed the confirmation of water rights. Tam Scott
has written a letter, to be submitted into the records , which
indicates the priority of water rights. She reported Bob Nelson
raised the question about water flowing through the property
and about ponds. The water is owned by the City of Aspen. It
runs to Glory Hole Park and the mall. The City of Aspen will
probably not use the water for anything except for snow making.
There is enough water with the multiple City of Aspen water
right to keep water on the site. Penne asked if ponding the
water will effect the mall water. Smith said ponding will eliminate
sedimentation, it will not effect the water flow. Ed Zasacky,
representative for the applicant, said the ponds and streams
are lined with impermeable material underneath, there is no
seepage.
Smith addressed the quality of the water. The issue is whether
the water from the mine will kill the trees. Nelson concluded
the water is safe. He certified it based on this analvsis .
The building department raised the issue of separate units ,
condition number six. She did not know the city code read the
way it does. The units are not intended or designed for separate
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Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission April 3j 1984
occupancy. They are not marketed as such. The preference is
to attach a condition that a covenant be written that the units
will be single family units. The houses with caretaker units
will be covenanted as duplexes. The doors are an amenity; they
are a convenience to the owner ; they access hot tubes. The
covenant will give the city and the homeowners the right to
enforce the condominium covenants.
The next issue is the common facility and maintenance agreement ,
condition number twelve. This refers to Section 24-8 . 14 of
the code, it relates to the common park area as opposed to a
deed restriction on the entire property for any future residential
development. Harvey asked what is common land and what is deve-
lopable land. Smith said the common area is the land around
the ponds and the land which runs through the middle of the
site. The lots are the proper size for both the single family
units and the duplexes. Harvey asked if there is sufficient
land for future development which is not incorporated in the
common land; a covenant against future residential development
may not be desirable. Smith said if the zoning is changed in
the future any developer would have the right to apply for the
zoning at the time. The applicant is not going to do that.
It is not logical to do that. The applicant wants to clarify
that this requirement of the code is limited to the preservation
of the open space. The applicant is not going to deed restrict
against any future development in perpetuity when it is not
necessary. Harvey said then the applicant intends to submit
a common maintenance agreement and deed restriction against
future residential development which would also cover the common
area. If the lot size is lowered through some zoning change
the applicant does not want to be excluded. Kaufman said the
applicant still would have to come back and go through the whole
amendment process. The code says the common area has to be
deed restricted, but it should be clarified that that does not
preclude the ability at some future time, if the zoning changes,
to come forward. Penne said the common area is set by the plan
today. Harvey reiterated that individual lots are being sold
with an interest in the common area. If the zoning is changed,
then the landowner has the right to come back and the right
under new zoning to apply for more development on his lot. Penne
said if the common area is deed restricted then the applicant
is precluding himself from further development anyway. Kaufman
said unless the zoning is changed.
Kaufman said one of the commission ' s concerns was the ability
of the applicant to use the Alps' Road. There is a letter which
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission April 3, 1984
states the applicant has the ability to use the Alps Road. For
years the Alps has been using the applicant' s property for parking
for the tennis courts. The agreement discussed with the Alps
is an exchange for parking for the Alps, this development would
be able to utilize the Alp' s tennis courts. The problem is
that the Board of Governors has to meet to negotiate this.
That will not take place until the end of summer, well after
the time the plat will be recorded. He proposed to deal with
that as a private agreement between his applicant and the Aspen
Alps, then record it. Do not make it a condition of the final
plat. Harvey asked what happens if an agreement is not reached.
Kaufman said that parcel , regardless of the agreement , will
be designated as common parking. The plat will remain the same.
Who will be able to use the parking is a private discussion
between two property owners. Harvey said condition fourteen
remains the same except for the deletion of "tennis court parking. "
David Finholm, architect for the project, indicated on a site
plan the designated parking to be recorded for the plat.
Smith requested the amendment of the location of the trail easement.
The old site for the trail is up too high. The site is too steep.
Too much grading would have to be done. The damage done would
be contrary to the 8040 greenline review. She proposes to drop
the trail easement down to the existing trail and that is shown
on the plat. She requested the language read a 20 foot trail
easement with an actual trail width of five feet. Specifically
condition that only a bobcat be used in the construction. The
purpose of the trail is for ski and hiking access. It is not
a typical bicycle trail. This is addressed in number nine of
the original sixteen conditions. Harvey asked if Jim Holland,
parks department, or the proper authority consulted about this
proposal. Is a condition is needed. Penne suggested the applicant
get more information before final plat. She suggested language
which reads legal description of proposed trail easement and
its relationship to adjoining properties to be reviewed by the
park ' s director and SPCA.
Pardee expressed concern over phrases in the report (McLoughlin
Report) , for example, "most impacts can probably, " " it does
not appear , " " should be investigated. " The conclusions are
hedged. He requested the city engineer review the report in
detail . This report assumes the obtained mine maps are correct.
The most critical facet of the approval of this application
is the strange nature of the site. Hammond said that is a preli-
minary report and that is why the conclusions are vague. The
applicant is only anticipating problems. If problems have been
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting _ Planning and Zoning Commission April 3. 1984
hidden or been exposed by the investigation to date, the applicant
will determine in construction the appropriate engineering design.
As far as the mapping, the applicant can be confident that there
was extensive mining activity under the site . There are no
major stopes under the site. This is a preliminary report and
in the course of detailed design development specific engineering
solutions to the problems encountered on each site will be provided.
Pardee said how does the commission insure that the city is
protected from problems. Hammond suggested a condition that
the geologist remain involved in the detail design development,
that Chen Associates sign off the final design, and the engineering
department be consulted during construction on any changes .
Pardee said he was concerned with the tailings not the water.
McLoughlin concluded there were high concentrations of leachable
lead, mercury and cyanide. The levels are eight times acceptable
levels. The health department should be consulted. Smith said
that is the request Bob Nelson made, to test the quality of
the water. Zasacky said the water will not be allowed to permeate
down through the rock as it travels through the site. Hammond
said there is a recommendation in the application which states
that a minimum of 12 inches of topsoil will be used, topsoil
prevents permeation. Pardee wished the water tested at the
finish of the project . Has arsenic been addressed? Zasackv
said the water was measured at the mine exit. Pardee said there
are many peculiar problems with this site that the city may
be liable for. Is the city adequately protected from, for example,
the sinkings, the stopes, arsenic, etc. , in a condition. Hammond
said this is a preliminary application. The applicant has identified
specific problems suggested and suggested mitigating measures.
The applicant is bound to the representations the applicant
has made. If there is a specific concern, add a condition which
reiterates the applicant' s obligation to mitigate the problems. For
example, the topsoil is a measure which mitigates the toxicity
in the lower soils. Penne said condition one and condition
ten say just that.
Pardee requested condition ten be expanded to say that the applicant
continue to work with a geologist and water engineer , and those
consultants sign off the project. If problems are encountered,
they will coordinate with the city engineer. Smith said the
more generic requirement is acceptable. Penne recommended the
language read the recommendations be followed in an on going
relationship through construction of the project, including
coordination with the engineering department . " Harvey added
"the applicant agree to follow the soil and water engineering
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission April-3, 1984
recommendations issued after the engineer reviews the final
design. "
David Finholm, architect for the project, said the design follows
the character of the barn, the old mining building. The Spar
Gulch runoff , the hundred year and five year flood, and the
aline waters encouraged elevating two parts of the buildings
and designing bridges. The buildings are a residential scale.
Finholm agreed the best way to deal with the potential bandit
units is through a covenant. He indicated on the site plan
the location of the caretaker units. Roofs are shaker shingles.
The building facade is stone. Driving pilings are used. There
is proper orientation for maximum solar benefit and privacy. The
units are three stories. There is a two car garage for each
unit. The ratio is one car to a bedroom. The common parking
in the lower section of the site is extra. There is one fireplace
per unit as allowed by code.
Ilarvey opened the public hearing.
Bill Hewitt, owner of lot 5 in the proposed development, presents
a list of objections to the project to the commission. Fie has
tried to work with the developer to resolve issues , but the
developer has not been reasonable or communicative. Hewitt' s
attorney, Charles Fagan, regretfully is out of town.
First , there is a problem with the water. His water line, which
runs from the mine, runs through the middle of the proposed
project . It has been there for some twenty years . He uses
that water. He does not have a problem with what the developer
wants to do with the property, but he does not want the developer
to negatively impact him. How is the water line going to be
protected. Harvey asked what kind of easement Hewitt has for
the line. Hewitt answered prescriptive. He is going to file
this week in court. Lyle Reider and Linda Edwards have water
lines located there also. Stan Johnson owns and leases this
to people. He does not want his water cut off. Taddune asked
Hewitt if he tried to work that out with the developer. Hewitt
tried to work it out with the developer. Initially he was going
to develop the property jointly with the developer , that did
not happen. Taddune asked what solution he proposed to the
water problem. Hewitt reported the developer sent him a letter
that the developer owns the water. The developer proposed to
let him use some of the water. Then the developer changed his
mind. Hewitt is not on the city water system. Although he could
tap into city water he does not want to.
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular_Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission. April 3, 1984_
Second, fence and trees are proposed around his property. Hewitt
has been using an access for at least thirty years . It has
been used even to the 1001 point. The developer may be denying
him access. His attorney advised him that he has a prescriptive
easement, and the proposed trees and fence will deny him his
prescriptive easement. Harvey asked if the easement is used
to access his property . Does Hewitt have a street cut on Ute
Avenue? Hewitt points out on a site plan the location of Ute
Avenue , the location of the cabins. Ute Avenue is frontage
to his property. The easement is used to access the back and
side units.
Pardee interrupted. The commission should listen to the objections.
The commission is not here to make legal decisions . If the
applicant ' s representations are false, he can not record. The
commission should not be hearing legal arguments between contesting
landowners . Hewitt replied his attorney advised him to outline
the objections.
Hewitt continued. He has prescriptive easement . He does not
want the trees or fence. Issue three is the fence and trees
on the westerly border. There is a question of adverse possession.
The section is four to ten feet, and runs 98 feet . He does
not want a fence or trees on his property. Number four , the
same issue applies to the easterly portion of the property .
There is at least a two to seven foot section running 98 feet.
He does not want trees or a fence there either.
Number five, there is a question of the fence on the westerly,
southerly, and the easterly border. That fence and trees are
negatively impacting his god given right to light, to fresh
air, and to solar benefits. The trees negatively impact his
views.
Issue number six is drainage . The developer intends to pave
all around his property. Hewitt assumes the developer is responsible
for the run off . In the southern part of Hewitt ' s property
the pavement should be trimmed so run off drains properly. Curbs
and tar will not work . Eventually there will be leakage into
his property. There is no drainage problem now.
Issue seven is noise and dust during construction. Hewitt proposed
another access for the equipment, access from Ute Avenue just
southeast of his property.
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission April 3, 1984
There is an adverse possession claim. The survey indicates
that the lot is not mathematically close. There is question
about the lot line . The court will settle the issue. If the
court favors Hewitt then the developer ' s lot is too close to
his.
Harvey said the commission does not get involved with the legal
aspects, but with impacts on neighbors.
Hewitt noted that the developer ' s application has a title report
on Hewitt' s property. That should not be in the application.
Kaufman replied that this is the first he has been made aware
of the objections. There was some discussion in the beginning
between Mr. Meyer and Mr. Hewitt on the inclusion of this particular
piece of property in this project. A sufficient monetary solution
was not worked out. He assumed that was the end of the issue.
Hewitt certainly has the right to go court to examine his client' s
legal ownership. His client has supplied all the surveys, all
the needed documentation, all the title reports which show ownership
by his client . The commission has to rely on what has been
represented. If Hewitt wants to go to court and challenge ownership,
that is outside the commission ' s purview. Nothing has been
raised is this presentation which should effect the commission' s
approval. The court can award an injunction. But the commission
has to proceed as if the objections were not made.
Hewitt argued he has been attempting to communicate and negotiate
with Mr. Meyers. He told Meyers personally that he does not
want a fence and trees around his property. The developer has
had the audacity not to return phone calls. The developer has
not been sensitive to the neighbors. Hewitt has lived on the
property for four years. He has never had a problem with the
Gant , Lyle Reider , the Alps, etc. The developer arrives in
the neighborhood and starts pushing people. Hewitt will give
this to the courts.
Harvey said the landscape plan for the property is in final
plat. The commission looks at preliminary, Council looks at
final . Regarding trees and fencing, the landscape items, the
commission cannot act on that issue. Harvey said if the applicant
loses in court, the plat as approved is not approved because
it is not as represented. It is a civil question.
Harvey said the issue to be addressed is the water. He asked
the applicant if he is aware of the water concern . Zasacky
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting _Planning and Zoning Commission April 3. 1984
replied the applicant has relied on the advice by Tam Scott .
That decision is subject to water law. Harvey said if the water
report indicates that the water at the exit of the mine is better
than the City of Aspen water, if the water at the lower end
of the property is filled with arsenic, etc. , and if the applicant
agrees Hewitt has a right to the water and delivers the water ,
then Hewitt might receive water polluted with arsenic, etc.
There is an issue of impact on the community. There is a question
of legal rights to water based on long term use. Zasacky said
Hewitt is not being denied water. Hewitt can connect with city
water . Kaufman said he is not conceding the point he has that
right. Harvey said fine, but that is an issue which involves
the neighborhood where a PUD project is located. Pardee said
it is clearly a question of prescriptive rights, it is a legal
question. The commission is not responsible for determining
that. The legal process will determine that. An injunction
can be issued.
Taddune said a concern is the possibility that the survey is
misrepresented. Kaufman said the survey is certified. Taddune
said this is an issue the commission should resolve with the
engineering department. Harvey said the commission ' s approval
is conditioned upon representations made. Taddune said it should
be made clear to the applicant that approval is clearly conditioned
upon that all the facts set forth in the preliminary plat are
accurate. If Hewitt goes to court and the facts are challenged,
and this is the city ' s position, then this matter would have
to come to back to preliminary for reconsideration. The commission
cannot sit here now as a court and decide whether Hewitt's assertions
of prescriptive rights or adverse possession are accurate .
Hewitt would have to award a TRO or motion for a preliminary
injunction, in which case he would have to bond and show irreparable
harm. Harvey asked if the commission ' s recommendation should
address this directly. Taddune replied no, except that the
applicant is put on notice at this point that if through some
litigation or legal proceeding that the facts set forth in the
preliminary plat are shown to be inaccurate, the applicant will
have to come back before the planning and zoning commission .
Kaufman understood.
Harvey reiterated the applicant wants preliminary plat subdivision,
preliminary PUD, 8040 greenline, and a recommendation for Cr1P
exemption for the employee housing units. Penne explained the
conditions will be taken forward to Council for final plat review
Harvey asked for time limits on the conditions in the resolution.
Penne said a schedule of construction is outlined in the memo.
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission April 3, 1984
Harvey is concerned with passing all these conditions forward
to final plat until some of the conditions are met. Smith said
the items which have to be satisfied prior to final plat are
mentioned. Penne said the housing authority agreement has to
be concluded prior to issuance of a building permit. The remaining
conditions will be part and parcel of the PUD agreement.
Tygre leaves the chambers.
Harvey asked if the landscaping and grading issues need to be
expanded on, or will engineering address that.
Harvey asked if the commission will move forward on granting
the subdivision PUD and 8040 greenline, and recommend a GM P
exemption on the employee units.
The commission outlined the changes to the conditions.
Number ten Pardee said is the only condition changed.
Number two, Harvey noted the fire hydrant is deleted.
Plumber three is satisfied.
Number six , the opportunity for separate lockable entrances
is scratched and the phrase "based on the determination to the
planning commission" is deleted.
Number ten is expanded to read: "recommendations of the McLoughlin
Report and the Chen Associates detailed review be followed in
an ongoing relationship through approval of the final design
and construction of the project including coordination with
the city engineering department. "
Number twelve, there is an addition to the second line: "against
future residential development of the common area. "
Number fourteen, "tennis court parking" is deleted.
Pardee asked if the McLoughlin Report addressed street water
runoff.
Smith asked approval of the preliminary plat with the revised
trail alignment subject to review.
Condition nine , Penne rewrote to include that the "applicant
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission April 3. 1984
show -legal description of the proposed trail easement and its
relationship to adjoining properties, and approval by the park ' s
director and/or SPCA, and fire department. "
Harvey asked who owns the water. Smith replied based on Tam
Scott ' s letter , the City of Aspen owns 1 . 5 cfs with a senior
right. The applicant will pursue an agreement with the city
for use of the water , if it is needed. Harvey said include in
condition three "confirmation of water rights for the Durant
Mine water and agreement for use. "
Harvey closed the public hearing.
Lee Pardee moved to grant preliminary plat subdivision, preliminary
PUD, and 8040 greenline approval ; and moved to recommend GM P
exemption for the construction of three deed restricted employee
housing units, all subject to the conditions as outlined in
the planning office memo of April 3 , 1984 , and as amended according
to the minutes of this meeting. Seconded by Welton Anderson.
Pardee, Harvey, and Anderson favored the motion. white opposed.
Pardee moved to continue the special meeting to hear the Stevenson-
Agate Conceptual PUD to April 4 , 1984 , at 9: 30 a.m. in the council
chambers ; seconded by Welton Anderson. All in favor ; motion
carried.
r1eeting adjourned at 8 : 00 p.m.
Barbara Norris, Deputy City Clerk
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