HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.apz.19840508 RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission May 8, 1984
Chairman Perry Harvey called the meeting to order at 5: 01 p.m. with
commissioners Pat Fallin, Welton Anderson, Lee Pardee, David
White, and Roger Hunt present.
COMMISSIONERS' COMMENTS
White reported the highway alignment issue was raised last night
at the Democratic caucus . More effort should be directed to
long term transportation planning. Vann should be here to bring
the Commission up to date as to what is happening.
Fallin asked about the satellite dish at KSPN. Paul Taddune,
city attorney, responded there was a meeting this afternoon
on this issue. The historic preservation commission has approved
the concept of locating a mesh antennae, a small dish, on the
Floradora building. A tenative decision was made to expedite
the special review. The dish has been located to minimize its
visibility . Anderson noted the dish is located on the flat
portion of the roof.
Anderson said two and a half years ago the Commission approved
the demolition of the buildings to the west of the Pitkin County
Bank with a parking lot . For the last month that parking lot
has been chained up. Why is the parking lot not used? Taddune
said the lot was used for parking by the bank . There has been
some inquiry about that space. Perhaps some plans for reconstruction
are coming forward . The space is private . This was brought
forward to the Commission as inventory so it would be known
on the public record what was being demolished and reconstructed. The
Commission had the ability to attach conditions because it was
an inventory. Bil Dunaway, publisher for the Aspen Times, noted
that Cheap Shots is moving. Taddune continued. Someone asked
for a verification of the amount of square footage that could
be built in the configuration.
Colette Penne, planning office, explained that the bank still
owns the lot . There is a plan for redevelopment and a plan
to tear down Cheap Shots . A verification was done more than
a year ago when the building, which housed Gracie ' s, was torn
down . The verification of square footage was split into so
much square footage per lot. The submission checks with that
footage . She does not know why the parking lot is chained up.
MINUTES
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission May 8. 1984
September 20 , 1983 . David white moved to approve the minutes
of September 20 , 1983 ; seconded by Pat Fallin. All in favor;
motion carried.
October 4 . 1983 . David white moved to approve the minutes of
October 4 , 1983; seconded by Pat Fallin. All in favor; motion
carried.
October 18 , 1983 . Harvey noted on page four, second paragraph
from the bottom, second sentence , insert "review" in " . . .the
applicant should review the determination. . . " Pat Fallin moved
to approve the minutes of October 18, 1983, as amended; seconded
by David White. All in favor; motion carried.
March 27 , 1984 . Pat Fallin moved to approve the minutes of
March 27, 1984; seconded by David white. All in favor; motion
carried.
April 3, 1984 . Lee Pardee moved to approve the minutes of April
3, 1984; seconded by Pat Fallin. All in favor; motion carried.
aril 4, 1984 . Lee Pardee moved to approve the minutes of April
4 , 1984 ; seconded by Welton Anderson . All in favor ; motion
carried.
April 10 , 1984 . Pat Fallin moved to approve the minutes of
April 10 , 1984 ; seconded by Welton Anderson. All in favor;
motion carried. white abstained.
PUBLIC HEARING
ASPEN CLUB: REZONING, LOT SPLIT AND PUD AMENDMENT
Harvey reported the planning office requested additional information
on the case and suggested tabling this application to June 19 ,
1984 .
Harvey opens the public hearing.
Pat Fallin moved to continue the public hearing to June 19,
1984, and to table the application by the Aspen Club to June
19, 1984; seconded by David White. All in favor; motion carried.
(Roger Hunt arrives in the chambers. )
OLD BUSINESS
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission May 8. 1984
ENDEAVOR LODGE - SPECIAL REVIEW
Welton Anderson steps down; he is the architect for the applicant.
Penne introduced the application. John Werning, owner of the
Endeavor Lodge, went through special review for an expansion
to 1: 1 FAR for the Endeavor Lodge and for a complete reconstruction
of the building in March of 1983 . At that time he asked for
a GMP parking exemption for three employee units. He has since
that time re-evaluated the configuration of the lodge and concluded
that dorm rooms are not acceptable. He prefers to offer a more
traditional lodging experience. Werning wants to modify that
special approval to provide larger guest rooms with private
baths rather than a dorm room with shared baths . Three small
separate bedrooms with shared baths and kitchen facilities for
employees will be replaced with a two room employee suite with
private bathroom and kitchen, and an employee bedroom located
in the lower level of the lodge. The same number of employees
may be housed; the number may be less depending on who shares
the suite. The housing office supports the new configuration,
it is a better living situation for employees.
Penne clarified that the employee unit at the lower level is
an addition. Welton Anderson, architect for the applicant,
has submitted a series of drawings to the building department.
The building department checked the drawings for compliance
with FAR. In the last submission by Anderson there was an employee
unit located at the lower level . Prior to the review by the
Commission in 1983 , there was no deed restricted housing at
the Endeavor. That is still the situation since the construction
has not occurred. This change is all right, even though only
two employees will be housed. Two deed restricted employee housing
units are being generated in a location where there are presently
none.
The ratios of the types of space according to internal FAR require-
ments are presented in the memo of March, 1983, and in the present
proposal . Both comply with the internal FAR requirements of
the L-3 zone. There is a change in a lounge space, this 320
square foot space is being moved downstairs and totals 1, 250
square feet. The building department determined that since
this is accessory space to the primary use and is subgrade,
the space will not be counted in FAR. There is one stairway
which accesses the lower lounge that the building department
concluded is encroaching into the side yard setback . The applicant
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission May 8. 1984
may need a variance from the Board of Adjustment.
The planning office recommends approval of the new plans. The
FAR will still be 1:1 . The expansion in the new configuration
is two employee housing units, one being a suite and the other
a bedroom; and the lodge room over the dormitory configuration.
One condition of approval is a variance be obtained from the
-Board -of Adjustment if there is a setback encroachment . Four
additional conditions are conditions of the former approval
(listed as numbers two through five on page two of the planning
office ' s memorandum, dated May 8, 1984) .
Anderson presents floor plans . He describes the old and new
plans. The present configuration houses four people, the proposed
altered configuration will house two people . The number of
guests will be reduced because the type of operation will be
changed. The net room count of the new proposal remains the
same. A former lounge becomes a guest room. The lounge is replaced
by a lounge four times its size located at the subgrade level
with amenities such as a common kitchen. There is little change
in the shape of the building. This will be signed off by the
zoning enforcement officer.
Hunt asked if the subgrade lounge is counted in open space.
Anderson said it is not counted. Hunt asked if the original
lounge which was included in the nonrental space has been taken
out completely. Anderson said it has been added into other
areas. A hallway has been widened. The amenities are concen-
trated downstairs instead of in two locations . The amenities
are not counted in FAR. But the internal FAR is as per code.
Harvey asked if the parking is being changed. Anderson said
no. Harvey noted the loss is one employee room. The new plan
offers a suite (with a bedroom and living room) , and a one-bedroom;
three bedrooms are in the old proposal . Is there a bathroom
on the lower level for the employee? Anderson replied there
is a bathroom which is off the sauna that the employee will
be able to use.
Harvey asked the applicant if this is going to work. Werning
responded yes, it is much better. Even the housing authority
agrees with the new design.
Harvey noted that the letter from Bill Drueding does not address
the employee room at the subgrade level.
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission Nay 8, 1984
Harvey asked if the applicant has any problem with the five
conditions. Anderson felt the condition one is superfluous. It
is the building department who directs the applicant to go to
_the Board of Adjustment for a variance . It already has been
reviewed by the building department. Harvey said the Commission
does not want to send the applicant to the Board if he does
not have to go . Anderson said the Commission does not send
anyone to the Board of Adjustment. Harvey suggested attach
a condition which says a variance be obtained from the Board
of Adjustment for a stairway to the lounge area "if it is required
by the building department then the applicant has to go to the
Board of Adjustment. " Anderson argued that the stairway is
an exit from the lounge area as per code, most stairways at
grade or below grade can encroach on the setbacks. Harvey said
that is a question for the building department to rule on.
Hunt asked if, the Endeavor is ever condominiumized in the future,
is the lounge area going to be kept track of. Penne replied
yes . That is not a problem. She referred to the review of
March, 1983, to make sure there is the same number of rooms .
This will be kept to check against for future condominiumization.
Roger Hunt moved to approve the new plans for the Endeavor Lodge
expansion to a 1: 1 FAR and that the approval for a growth management
plan exemption for employee housing be amended to two units
with the conditions (as outlined in the planning office memo
dated May 8, 1984, page two) :
1. A variance be obtained from the Board of Adjustment
for the stairway to the lounge area if required by
ci :wilding department.
2 ._ _ The applicant obtain an Encroachment License to retain
the five parking spaces in the Hopkins Avenue right-
of-way.
3 . The applicant be required to join any area improvement
district in the event one is formed. If an improvement
district results in the loss of parking spaces they
must be replaced in the alleyway.
4 . A final plat of the reconstructed lodge be filed.
5 . The applicant will submit deed restrictions for the
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission May 8, 1984
employee unit which will be approved as to form by
the city attorney before the issuance of a certificate
of occupancy for the new lodge units.
Seconded by Pat Fallin. All in favor ; motion carried.
OLD BUSINESS
ASPEN MOUNTAIN LODGE PUD
Anderson returns to his seat on the Commission.
Chuck Brant from Holland and Hart reported on the current status
of the project. The bankruptcy court approved the state's plan
about three weeks ago to specifically authorize the sale of
the hotel and other lands to Commerce Savings. Hans Cantrup
asked that that decision be reviewed by Judge Gueck. Cantrup
requested a stay on the closing on the grounds that he did not
concur with the bankruptcy court judge ' s plan of approval and
wanted to make an appeal before the court of appeals. Judge
Gueck did not grant the stay but said if Cantrup could come
up with a four million dollar surety bond, that Gueck would
grant the stay. Cantrup was unable to do that. Last week Cantrup
took the appeal of the stay decision to the U. S. District Court.
Judge Matche, only hearing oral arguments, was sympathetic to
Cantrup's situation. The judge agreed Cantrup had a great deal
to lose if the plan and property closed as approved. The judge
granted Cantrup a stay without bond. His clients were scheduled
to close yesterday but because of the stay his clients have
not closed. He will be appealing that stay, that is the bankruptcy
estate will within the next thirty days. There is a move for
an expedited hearing on that appeal . He is doing everything
he can within the courts to overcome the stay . That appeal
will be a full appeal for the entire plan as it is approved. He
is optomistic that the judge who granted the stay after reading
the briefs , hearing a review of the entire appeal , will see
it his clients ' way and approve the plans. If he is successful
in the appeal the property will close in forty-five days at
the outside . If the appeal is not successful then the case
would be remanded to the bankruptcy court. What appears to
bother the federal court of appeals judge is the situation with
chief executive officer. The judge is used to seeing a trustee
or debtor in possession making the full arrangements. The plan
is a combination of those two. Brant thinks the objection can
be overcome . However , if Brant is not successful and the case
is remanded to the bankruptcy court, the likely scenario would
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission May 8, 1984
be the removal of and the appointment of a trustee. Meanwhile,
not to lose momentum, his clients are proceeding before the
Commission and next Monday night before Council. They are continuing
with the condominium legal work , the securities work on the
hotel, etc.
Hunt asked if the condominium legal work includes the hotel .
Brant replied yes. Hunt asked if something has changeu or is
the concept of the condo hotel the same as approved by the SCC.
Brant answered it is the same concept as the condo hotel.
Pardee asked if the creditors have to be paid before Cantrup
receives anything. Brant answered yes. At this point the secured
creditors are fully paid. The unsecured creditors are approximately
16% . Taddune asked what if the appeal is settled. Brant said
the unsecured creditors would still have to receive 100% payment
before Cantrup received anything in a settlement.
I. RESOLUTION OF THE RESIDENTIAL COMPONENTS OF THE ASPEN MT PUD
Sunny Vann, planning office, stated the two items for discussion:
the resolution on the residential components of the Aspen Mountain
PUD and a detailed discussion of the applicants ' revised employee
housing proposal .
The residential component is scheduled for discussion before
Council at next Monday' s meeting, therefore the Commission should
concentrate on the resolution first. If there are significant
changes then the resolution will be delayed. All the concerns
that have been raised to date have been addressed. The conditions
the Commission has not seen in detail are conditions eleven
through fifteen on page three. The remainder of the resolution
is essentially identical with exception to some changes in the
punctuation.
Conditions eleven through fifteen deal with the specific requirements
imposed upon 700 South Galena. He has met with J. D. Muller
who represents some adjacent property owners in discussing the
terms of these conditions as they relate to the memorandum which
Muller submitted to the Commission. Unless Muller is here tonight
with some additional changes, Muller 's concerns have been satis-
factorily addressed. Vann has not discussed the wording with
the applicants . They may or may not have objections to the
specif ics.
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission Nay 8. 1984
Condition eleven reflects the awareness of some subsurface soils
and slope stabilities drainage issues associated with 700 South
Galena. The request is that the applicants provide a preliminary
investigation as part of the PUD subdivision submission so the
appropriate conditions, if any, can be attached to this project.
The reason the conditions attached to the Cantrup proposal are
not attached to this proposal is that this is a revised application.
The extent of the site may not be modified as much as by the
Cantrup proposal . However , the adjacent landowners are very
concerned that any problems identified are expressly conditioned
as part of conceptual approval. Therefore, language is included
that states that the Commission ' s recommendation to Council
is expressly conditioned upon the applicants mitigation of the
various problems that may be identified at preliminary PUD submis-
sion. Preliminary soils and water table investigations will
be submitted to the Commission as part of the applicants' preliminary
PUD submission.
Harvey said this condition does not read well, it reads conceptual
approval is expressly conditioned upon the applicants ' mitigation,
in other words the applicants response to a preliminary report.
Vann clarified the condition, additional information is wanted
at the preliminary level . If there are problems identified
then the Commission' s conceptual approval is expressly conditioned
upon the mitigation of the problems. The Commission is not
requiring mitigation by preliminary PUD. The Commission is
saying that a preliminary investigation may turn up problems.
The Commission may identify problems. The engineering department
may place conditions at the preliminary PUD level. The Commission
is only acknowledging ahead of time that those problems will
be conditions of approval . At this time include in the resolution
that the applicants submit additional information. At preliminary
PUD, if there are problems, those problems will be made conditions
of approval.
The adjacent landowners want the Commission to go on record
now that if problems do crop up that the applicants will resolve
them. This is superfluous language.
Harvey said the concern is the preliminary soils and water table
investigations. Preliminary is fine if the Commission was dealing
with this at a conceptual level . If Vann is saying that the
Commission wants details of mitigation to be included in the
applicants ' preliminary subdivision submission then the report
should be more than a preliminary soils and water table investi-
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission May 8. 1984
gation. Vann explained the distinction that engineering is
making. Certain subsurface investigations and soils analyses
may identify problems. If the report concludes there are problems
it may say how the problems are to be mitigated. The specific
details of how those certain type of mitigating methods would
be met would not be engineered or designed until final approval .
Further soils analysis and further slope work would then be
done. Detailed solutions would be developed.
Pardee suggested language : "submission of a soils and water
table investigation of 700 South Galena site acceptable to the
engineering department to include an evaluation . . . " Harvey
instructed Vann to delete "preliminary" and add "acceptable
to city engineering. "
Vann addressed condition twelve. Prior to 700 South Galena
the adjacent property owners were required to grant certain
construction easements. There were problems in obtaining those
easements from the neighbors. When Cantrup faced financial
difficulties this came to a halt. A condition of the revised
project was that at preliminary level the applicants identify
any and all easements that may be required as a result of this
current project. Securing those easements is a condition of
the issuance of the excavation permit. This solves the adjacent
neighbors ' problems. Construction easements may not even be
required given the revised nature of the project. Easements
are all inclusive, utilities, etc.
Vann addressed condition thirteen. The Commission asked for
a completion schedule. Once again, this request is redundant.
Preliminary PUD submission requires a specific construction
schedule. Depending on the nature of that schedule, conditions
may or may not be appropriate. Harvey said the request is for
language on minimizing damage to surrounding landowners and
keeping the construction area under construction for no longer
than is necessary. Vann said if the construction schedule becomes
extremely extended or has some detrimental effect on the adjacent
neighborhood then the Commission can ask the applicants to come
back and explain that the conceptual recommendation was based
on the applicants expediting this in a timely manner.
Condition fourteen is an attempt to address the height problem. It
is difficult to phrase because of the nature of elevations .
Vann is reluctant to simply make the condition subject to the
height as submitted. There is a tendency to misplace the drawings.
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission Nay 8. 1984
The condition, therefore, has been set up to restrict the height
at the two most obvious locations: the north and south ends.
The condition also sets a maximum for height in the other locations.
There is one central ridge point measured from natural grade
which is about 42 .5 feet. That is not the case across the entire
project . Natural grade to the ridge of the roof is easierly
measured than from the mid point. A copy of the applicants
revised elevations will be recorded. Harvey asked if the heights
should be related to the corresponding number in the code. Put
in parentheses L-2 height restrictions. Give a point of reference.
Harvey asked the resolution reflect where the applicants started
in height and where they have evolved to. Vann said he may
have noted that . A similar situation exists with the Top of
Mill. There is no reference to the height revisions in the
Top of Mill "whereas ' s . " It would be awkward to include this
in one project but not the other. If the Commission wants that
in the resolution there should be a generic "whereas" that states
that following the Commission ' s review that specifically the
two projects have been revised in response to the planning office ' s
and the Commission's comments on height. Anderson suggested
"whereas, after initial conceptual review, the 700 South Galena
project has been reduced in height by 8 feet, as high as, and
2 .5 feet, as low as, and whereas, . . . "
Harvey suggested the maximum heights be recorded on the final
plat. Harvey asked that the height be kept track of by adding
something in the resolution; as shown in the applicants revised
elevations. . .to be noted and recorded on the final plat.
Hunt said on the advice of the city attorney that in condition
nine "Summit Street" should be identified as "Summit Street
right-of-way. " Wells said the city will get the right-of-way
in any case. The extension of the street is at the city ' s option.
Vann said the condition of approval is that the city get an
easement . Hunt asked about the extension of what is there.
Vann clarified the applicants do not have the ability to grant
that, it is on other people ' s property . The applicants have
agreed to give an easement on their property, the city at its
own discretion can extend the street. Hunt asked if the applicants
have already agreed to retain the right-of-way. Vann said yes.
They will identify this first at preliminary PUD and give the
city an easement across their property for purposes of extending
the street as the city may choose.
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission May 8. 1984
Harvey asked if condition fifteen handles the concern on Mill
Street. Vann said the applicants are going to look with the
engineering department at the feasibility of minimizing the
jog in the street . Hunt suggested swapping area for area and
reduce the sharpness of the road. Pardee questioned the phrase
"continuing to explore. " He suggested add that the applicants
agree to realign Galena as the engineering department deems
appropriate.
Pardee addressed condition seven, the issue of increasing the
distance between the buildings located at the southern terminus
of Mill Street. He directed Vann to include "increase the distance
by minimum of eight feet . . . " He spoke to the architect who
said he could work with 8 feet, possibly up to 10 or 12 feet.
Anderson suggested that the Commission review this at preliminary.
Harvey asked if this could be left open until then. Anderson
said there may be photographs and models to help judge what
this will look like . One may realize that the architect is
correct. Harvey said the condition covers the reason why the
Commission wants that distance increased, to expand the view.
J.D. Muller, representative for the Tipple, reviewed the conditions.
His clients still want the heights to be within the underlying
zoning . But the Commission has made a decision. The height
issue was addressed but his clients do not agree to those heights.
The same is true for reduced density . His clients still want
to see the density reduced. The Commission last time did not
want to recommend that.
Russ Pielstick, representative for homeowner Joan Anderman,
presented a model . Unfortunately, the contours are off . It
gives some idea of the comparison of massing which is one of
the considerations in the area. The vertical measurement is
off on the hill vice. Jo.bn Doremus, representative for the applicant,
said it is inappropriate to look at something that is not factual.
He suggested correcting the model and bring it back for the
Commission ' s review. Pielstick said the model does give an
idea of the relationship of massing, the concern. Vann asked
how far is the model off. Pielstick suspected a 20 foot deferen-
tial .
Joan Anderman, homeowner, said she paid to have the model done. Her
house is the lower of the two homes. This is her second go-
around. She decided to have a model built . Hans Cantrup' s
project was at 32 feet. That was fine. The present project
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission May 8. 1984
is 33 feet. If the applicants do not agree with this model perhaps
they can do one. She wants to address the drainage also. Cantrup
cut ten feet into her corner. The engineers reported then the
land would slough off within three years. At the point the
city engineer and Cantrup agreed to fix it. Depending how long
the current project will take, the fact is the land is sloughing
off. There is only eight or ten feet between the two properties.
Harvey asked what was the agreement with the city. Anderman
replied that the city was unaware of what Cantrup was doing.
Cantrup cut the cliff off . The house is near the cut. She then
hired engineers to assess the situation. The engineers reported
that a special kind of retaining was needed. Harvey asked if
the cut is on her land. Anderman answered the cut is below
the property. Vann said this is the same problem 925 East Durant
is experiencing. There are holes. There are problems created
by the results of prior activity and a prior owner . The present
applicants may or may not be able to resolve these problems
as part of their work. Cantrup is not available for recourse.
He does not know how to get compliance. He will explore this
with the city attorney and city engineer .
Doremus noted his clients cannot touch the property. The soils
engineers will come up with the answers. Vann said the immediate
solution is a problem for the city to get compliance under Cantrup
or the estate. The Alpina Haus has some safety problems also
with the adjacent hole. He will pass both properties onto the
city attorney. Harvey suggested expedite this so some decision
can be made as to how to handle the problem. Doremus said the
estate is in a legal position to handle an emergency situation.
Harvey directed Vann to contact the city attorney and city engineer
to see what needs to be done by the estate.
Jack Crawford, member of the public, addressed the misconceptions
about the height. He is concerned with the size and bulk of
the proposed building and its relationship to the surrounding
buildings. He presented an elevation drawing. Richie Cohen
at the last meeting questioned Crawford ' s measurements of the
North of Nell. Crawford double checked the measurements . They
are correct . He also presented some photographs taken from
a parking lot. The height of the building from that view will
block everything in the area to the first building of the Durant.
Part of the proposed building is 39 feet with the maximum height
at 43 feet and the minimum height 34 feet. The average height
is 39 feet. North of Nell along Durant Street is 37 feet high.
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission May 8, 1984
The North of Nell blocks the hill at 37 feet . The proposed
building will start at 39 feet and rise to 43 feet . The proposed
building is still too high . 700 South Galena is a discreet
project, it should be considered as a separate condominium.
Other quality condominiums stay within the code . He encourages
getting closer to the code . He made suggestions as to how to
alter the plans to meet the height requirements in the code .
The Blitt ' s duplex is at code height, 28 feet . The Tipple Lodge
is 25 feet. As to condition fourteen, leave the language as
is that the south facade will be 34 feet, and change the language
on the north facade, replace 39 feet with 34 feet; make the
maximum height of the entire building 39 feet . That is a reasonable
compromise. The height is then more in keeping with the code
and the neighborhood . The height will not block so much of
the views .
Anderman asked why the applicants are receiving more than the
allowed height. Vann explained the applicants are requesting
to vary the height under a PUD. Remember the planning office
and the Commission had a problem with the original height variance
requested. The applicants returned with a reduction in height .
Based on the spot elevations of the adjacent structures, the
majority of the Commission last week agreed that the height
reduction was satisfactory. Harvey noted under the PUD designation
on this property variances in height are allowed . Anderman
argued this is an economic issue with the applicants. She has
owned her home for twenty-five years, and her home will be buried,
her home will be below the project . If the applicants build
at the legal height without the variance, her home will be safe .
Vann replied that the material submitted last week clearly indicates
that the Anderman home is not below the proposed structure but
above the roofline of the structure. The model is disceptive
as presently prepared . One concern with the Commission was
the fact that the hill houses would remain above the proposed
structure . The Anderman home will look down upon the structure .
But the structure will not block the Anderman home . The home
is twenty feet above the structure . wells restated that there
is twenty feet from the Anderman roof to the proposed structure's
roof . Anderman argued then the difference is eight feet . Vann
said the Anderman floor would be approximately eight feet above
this structure ' s ceiling.
Anderman argued she has had that home for a long time . She sees
no necessity based on economic reasons for someone to change
the height . Harvey replied that the Commission does not review
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission May 8. 1984
economic reasons . Anderman asked then why allow three stories .
Harvey replied it is a design consideration for the site . Anderson
explained the additional height is a trade for less ground coverage.
Anderman favored the ground coverage . She is the closest to
the building, she is the most effected by the height . The building
is ten feet from her window . Doremus contradicted her, the
Blitt's duplex is closer with 25 feet between the buildings .
Harvey asked if anything has been done with the interior ceiling
heights. Anderson said ceiling heights scaled out at 9 feet
floor to floor, it is an 8 foot ceiling. Wells said he thought
everyone was satisfied with the ceiling height .
Pardee supported Crawford ' s thoughts . It appears the Commission
feels comfortable with the minimum height of 34 feet, and with
the maximum height of 43 feet, and with an average height of
39 feet. Harvey interjected it is a maximum of 39 feet along
the north facade . Vann said the height is taken from the crown
of the highest point of the ridge . A flat roof measures at 39
feet but a pitched roof provides a better view. Pardee said
the Commission and Council have been very stringent on all the
other aspects of this PUD. It is one thing to make concessions
to have lodge rooms which are drastically needed; it is another
thing to favor a structure with a fair amount of mass and with
little connection to the lodge . What is the thinking behind
the height decision? Harvey summarized the last session. The
applicants can accommodate whatever height the Commission deems
appropriate by spreading the project out over the site. The
applicants by setting the building back from the Tipple properties
and by creating more distance and more of an open feeling have
consolidated the building . The model does not reflect the steepness
of the hill . It was the Commission ' s feeling to lower the north
end of the project . The Commission accepted giving the variance
on the height according to the regulations in the PUD if the
decision achieved a better overall design than what was acceptable.
The Commission looked at the open space, 53 feet between the
project and the Tipple . The Commission accepted that setback
in order to accommodate the Tipple.
Doremus said site lines were shown and mass studies were provided.
There is a slight hole in the natural grade because Cantrup
excavated and cleaned out that area . The project is two or
three feet below the curb cut line. That compounds the problem.
Five of the surrounding buildings are taller than the proposal .
Crawford is exagerating the impacts on the Tipple . Class studies
14
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission May 8. 1984
indicate the project is five or ten feet away from the northern
property line .
Vann noted one argument was that previous approval was in fact
consistent with the requirements of the prior code allowed five
foot setbacks lot line to lot line . The argument of additional
bedrooms used by Crawford does not effect the size of the project.
There are no more additional units . In this case there are
less units than the prior approval . There is also a much smaller
footprint; usable open space is enhanced with a trade off of
additional height . The proposal could be reduced in height,
and could be spread out to cover lot line to lot line . A certain
amount of density is allowed by right.
Wells said the reason the project was modified was to avoid
changing the project in any other matter substantially so as
not to trigger a reconsideration of the GMP. That is the procedural
burden that results from the choice of maximizing the open space,
to 40% open space rather than the required 25% open space . To
really modify the building any further a GMP revision is necessary .
Crawford suggested his modification is no more drastic than
the one that has already been done . Vann said assuming the
project could be constructed with a reduction in height then
Crawford is correct. Crawford said the change is a minor archi-
tectural modification similar to what was done last week . It
is not true that the GMP would have to be revised . Vann said
the revision in the GMP may be true . If the north end is reduced
to 34 feet, in order to maintain the same architecture, the
building would have to be lowered into ground further on the
north side. The building is already below grade with respect
to a parking garage . Whether the lowering can work without
changing the configuration of the building cannot be determined.
The applicants have lowered the building into the ground as
much as possible. Whether it can be lowered further remains
to be seen . Reducing the building height does not reduce the
building proportion.
Crawford said the setback as proposed is rather critical to
the line of site . There is nothing in the resolution that specifies
that . Is it appropriate to put that in to guarantee that the
building will be setback where it suppose to be . Otherwise,
the developer may choose to locate the building further north
which would have a drastic impact. Vann replied that the building
has to be built consistent with the way it is shown. Harvey
15
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission May 8. 1984
asked again if there is any reference to this in the resolution.
Vann noted condition eighteen references it : "all material
representations of the conceptual PUD subdivision and residential
applications not specifically referred to above being made a
condition of this approval . " Otherwise, every feature of the
project would have to be reiterated to guarantee compliance .
These facts are also located in the prior submission . Crawford
said he has never seen the submission. There is no site plan
on the location of the property attached to the GMP submission.
He wants this attached as part of the approval . Vann said there
is a site plan attached as part of the GMP submission . It is
a condition of approval . Any deviation in any significant part
of the site plan will be noted in the preliminary PUD review .
It will also be a condition for denial . Harvey again said all
the site plans and the representations are documented through
the minutes and through the submission.
Anderman asked if she paid to have the model redone, would the
architects for the project critique it before it is brought
to the town meeting . Doremus said all he wants is accuracy .
He would be happy to look at it. Anderman is very worried she
is going to look at a blank wall . She is the only person who
has built a house, has lived there happily, and is not selling .
She is not going bankrupt . She has lived there twenty-five
years.
Vann noted this project is coming back for a public hearing
at preliminary PUD . At that time if more detailed drawings
indicate the building is not located where the applicants say
it was then obviously that is an area of concern for the Commission.
They will address this at that time . Now, the Commission is
only saying that conceptually the project is all right; the
project does not block views . If it turns out that it is blocking
Anderman's view, then the Commission will surely consider this .
Harvey entertained a motion . Vann suggested because of the
minor nature of the changes, the Commission authorize the chairman
to sign off the resolution in the planning office .
Welton Anderson moved to approve Resolution #84-5 as amended
during the public hearing cf Tay 8, 1984; and he further moved
that these changes be approved as to form and content by the
chairman; seconded by Pat Fallin. All in favor; motion carried .
II. ASPEN MOUNTAIN LODGE EMPLOYEE HOUSING
16
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning. Commission Liao 8. 1984
(White leaves the chambers .)
Vann remembered that the applicants made a brief presentation
at the last session on the employee housing solutions . For a
number of reasons the planning office did not conduct a detailed
review at that time. The planning office has reviewed the material
submitted by the applicants. The specifics of Ute City Place
need to be discussed . The Commission also needs to resolve
among itself whether it is willing to accept the Airport Business
Center deed restrictions as a component of the employee housing
solution . There is no specific review with respect to that
deed restriction . It is the Commission ' s responsibility to
pass on to Council a recommendation as to the appropriateness
of using those units as part of the solution . Assuming the
specifics can be worked out tonight; Vann proposed to draft
a resolution for the next regularly scheduled meeting on May
22nd. The resolution would contain specific conditions relating
to when deed restriction should be applied, etc . It is still
necessary to get beyond the conceptual review: first, is ABC
appropriate; and second, are the Ute City Place project specifics
acceptable.
In reviewing the prior Ute City Place approval, the cleanest
way to effectuate a revision to that would be to duplicate the
original review process for the new project . The new project
is similar to the prior approved project for this property. The
existing approval can be maintained, it continues on for a building
permit ostensibly to proceed toward construction in the spring .
The new proposal would be re-reviewed in the same review process
as the original application. Tonight the Commission would be
looking, first, at a conceptual subdivision application for
the Ute City Place project; and second, at the appropriateness
of exempting this project if it is a 100% employee housing from
growth management. If that is satisfactory then the Commission
can make a recommendation for similar action to Council . At
preliminary PUD the Commission can hear the request for rezoning
to RBO.
(White returns to t he chambers. )
The Commission is being asked to choose between an approved
RBO that is heading toward a building permit and possibly con-
struction this spring (if not the allocation will be lost) and
a very similar project which has been reduced in footprint in
overall FAR and is 100% deed restricted as opposed to partially
17
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission May 8, 1984
deed restricted. The property has received a RBO.
Harvey asked if this has to be done again for the new proposal .
Vann replied that the RBO ordinance runs with the specifics
of the project . It is based on a specific analysis of the project .
In order to alleviate future potential questions, the cleanest
way is simply to re-review the proposed project as to the appro-
priateness of a RBO for the current project. It did not occur
to his predecessors that someone might need an opportunity to
amend a RBO. There is no specific provijion for amendment .
That does not mean that a RBO cannot be amended, there is simply
no provision for amendment . The simplest solution is to say
here is an applicant who would like to propose an alternative
project on this site. It is similar to the prior project . It
may even better because it provides a 100% employee housing,
it is smaller, it impacts less, and it provides more open space.
Therefore, the original review should be duplicated and a condition
of final approval should be that the prior GMP application be
relinquished and returned to the quota.
The current proposal is an 100% employee housing with the same
mix of units and same number of twenty-two units . The RBO is
required to get that number of units . Under existing zoning
only half of the number of units are allowed . RBO allows a
reduction in minimum lot area in exchange for employee housing.
If it made sense to grant a reduction in the minimum lot area
to produce half of the units as employee housing, then it makes
sense to grant a reduction to produce all the units as employee
housing.
(Harvey leaves the chambers. )
The question is which project is better : the larger project
which cannot be stopped or the reduced project which is more
attractive.
The RBO is still required to get the FAR. There did not use
to be a FAR requirement in the R/MF zone district . The RBO
ordinance proposed a 1 : 1 FAR allowing an increase to 1 .25: 1
on RBO projects . The old project was close to that FAR; in
the past occupied space was not counted. Remember the FAR regu-
lations were amended to include separate units that are habitable .
The height of the project is also lowered. As a result, under
today ' s rules, the FAR for the revised project is about 1 .09
or 1 .1: 1 and the FAR for the original project is 1 .3 : 1 . There
18
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and zoning Commission May 8. 1984
is a definite reduction in the FAR on the revised project . The
RBO is required for the unit count . The parking is increased
from 26 to 28 spaces.
(Harvey returns to the chambers . )
There are two problems which resulted from the changes in the
FAR regulations. First, there did not use to be an open space
requirement in this zone district at the time the original project
was approved. The original open space was about 130 . The code
now requires 350 . Open space is reduceable in RBO by special
review as in a PUD. The revised project produces 23% open space
which does not meet code . But, there is a provision for reduction.
If the Commission directs the applicants to redesign the project
to meet the 35% open space requirement, then the old project
will simply proceed. It is a question of which is the lesser
of two evils .
The second consideration is that the original height in the
zone district was 28 feet. As a result of the changes in the
residential neighborhood R/MF is now 25 feet. This old project
was approved at 28 feet. (Anderson leaves the chambers .) There
is no provision in the RBO for an increase in the allowable
height. He asked the city attorney today how to address this
in context of the prior approval . It would not be wise to encourage
the building of the other project over the difference in the
height . (Anderson returns to the chambers . ) wells said there
maybe a variance required . Vann said this project might be
construed as part of the overall PUD and PUD regulations allow
for height variations. There are many ways to deal with this .
He does not have the recommended solution at this time. Since
the Commission is going to be reviewing this further, conceptual
approval can be subject to the ability to resolve the height
problem.
Doremus presents drawings to the Commission on the Ute City
Place.
Vann said the reduction in the size of the project results from
reducing the free market units. Rent can only be charged for
a certain size unit; there is no point in building free market
units which rent cannot be charged for .
Wells points out the original footprint . There is a reduction
in the footprint on the revised plan. The reduction occurs
19
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission May 88, 1984
on the alley side. Doremus said this improves the project in
several ways. It increases the open space. It allows the patio
wells to be widened . He points out on an elevation the old
building line and the revised building line . The building was
pulled back which allowed the widening of the patio wells .
The room mix is exactly the same. The room size is smaller to
conform to the guidelines.
Vann noted that the project as originally submitted would not
be approved today. There is value in the GMP allocation and
in proceeding forward for a building permit now. There is a
possibility for some economic reason that the project might
not go ahead and the allocation would lapse . There is also
the possibility of picking up a substantially better project
and one which is an ideal solution to part of the employee housing
problem: one, because of its proximity to the site; and two,
because it is in a multi family area already. It is consistent
with the scale of the adjacent buildings . It is located on
a bus line . It provides adequate parking at one per bedroom
for the employees who reside there.
Pardee noticed the applicants have requested moderate income
guidelines. Vann said at this point planning office no longer
involves itself with the appropriateness of the income guidelines.
The housing authority has signed off and endorsed the two alternate
proposals and the Ute City Place and its proposed price guidelines
for the units based on the information submitted. He does have
a letter from Jim Adamski, housing authority, in the file which
signs off the proposals . The mix may continue to change as
the hotel is refined . The applicants agreed at conceptual to
take out 30, 000 square feet from the lodge component . This may
change the amount of commercial space, may change the amount
of lodge room services, etc. This is a proposal based on the
approval to date . At preliminary there may be further refinement
on the mix or the actual number of people housed.
Hunt asked when does the Commission get to see the mix of the
housing proposal as far as low and moderate income. Jim Curtis,
consultant for the applicants, replied he is prepared to present
that to the Commission this evening. Hunt wants to see the
mix. He assumes the Alpina Haus will house lower income. Curtis
said the proposal is consistent with the GMP application . The
Alpina Haus is all restricted to low income . Vann said the
Alpina Haus and Copper Horse combined will house 89 employees
or 45% of the applicants ' employee housing commitment . Curtis
20
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission May 8. 1984
noted both _of_ the -projects- are _below the established affordability
guidelines . The guidelines are setup based on 30% of one ' s
income for rental housing costs. Both projects do not exceed
25% of the employee ' s wages. Both projects are below what the
present low income guidelines are. The Ute City Place and the
ABC are proposed at a moderate income guidelines which is consistent
with what was proposed at the original Benedict-Larkin site .
Essentially these projects will house employees who will earn
an estimated $15, 000 to $23, 000 per year.
Curtis said Ute City Place will house 37 employees, ABC will
house 69 employees . Nine units out at the Airport Business
Center or 20 people will be price restricted to the low income
category. Twenty out of the sixty-nine people out at the Airport
Business Center will be price restricted to the low income category.
That fulfills the GMP application on 700 South Galena Street.
Vann said there are two other employee housing solutions which
the Commission has already dealt with. One is the Alpina Haus .
The Commission found the solution to be exempt from change in
use provisions. The Commission attached certain provisions one
of which was to further address the parking issue at preliminary.
The second is the Copper Horse. The Copper Horse is an historic
structure and is exempt from change in use requirements. But
the Commission needs to make a recommendation as to its appro-
priateness as being included in the employee housing solution.
-Vann suggested the Commission draft a resolution to Council
which specifically pertains to the employee housing proposal . State
that yes the Commission has exempted from growth management
the change in use of the Alpina Haus subject to conditions .
State that it is the Commission 's opinion that the Copper Horse
is an appropriate component of employee housing solution subject
to deed restriction. Parking needs to be addressed at preliminary
for both solutions . State the Commission ' s position on the
Ute City Place subject to conditions . (He will pull out the
conditions of the final approval of the prior proposal, for
example, curb cuts, etc. ) State that the Commission recommends
conceptual subdivision approval on that particular project .
The other aspect of the resolution would be to endorse the Airport
Business Center project if the Commission concurs with the solution
with conditions . One condition might address how the applicants
propose to solve the transportation problem. The Commission
might also want to restrict the occupancy of Alpina Haus, Copper
Horse, and Ute City Place to hotel employees so that the bulk
21
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission May 8. 1984
of the employees would be housed in town. As a general rule
housing that is provided for residential competition is not
restricted to a price guideline.
Harvey polled the commissioners on the Ute City Place and the
RBO rezoning. Hunt expressed one concern with the Ute City Place :
the lower units are similar to deep-holed Calcutta spaces and
are not designed as moderate income units. Otherwise, he thoroughly
favors the plan. Use those less desirable units as low income
units.
White expressed the same concern about the subgrade units . He
also addressed parking. Since Ute City Place is near the Alpina
Haus, is there a way to get more parking? Doremus said that
is why two more spaces were added. wells said there was discussion
whether was anyway to alleviate the Alpina Haus parking problem.
He does not believe the one space per bedroom requirement is
needed. White supports the RBO.
Fallin favored the two issues . Pardee agreed the lower units
should be low income. Also low income salaried employees should
be within walking distance of the hotel . Anderson expressed
no problem with RBO. However, he suggested the lower units
be treated similarly to the Larkspur . Doremus requested the
opportunity to ameliorate the concerns before the units are
priced at low income. Harvey said the RBO is fine . The Commission
has always stood by the goal of providing low income housing .
The housing authority does make those determinations. It is
all right for the applicants to explore alternate designs. But,
the mix of units should be determined by the housing authority.
The consensus is the Commission instruct the planning office
to draw up a resolution stating that the Commission feels the
Ute City Place is an appropriate housing solution, that the
Commission recommends conceptual subdivision approval, and that
the Commission is supportive of a RBO.
Pardee remembered the Commission did not want to recommend conceptual
approval of 700 South Galena just because it received a GMP.
He asked if the Commission has reviewed Ute City Place thoroughly
enough. Vann reminded him that the old Ute City Place proposal
did receive full subdivision approval . The only thing different
with the current proposal is that the present proposal is truncated
and is 100% employee housing . It is better . The only issue
which Jay Hammond, engineering department, noted is a potential
problem in access on Highway 82 . The applicant must secure
22
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission Nay 8. 1984
a driveway permit from the State Department of Highways. Conditions
of the prior approval address turn movements from that access
point to Highway 82. Hammond also requested that the applicants
explore other alternatives to the original set of conditions;
those can be done between now and preliminary PUD. Vann intends
to include this as one of the conditions. There will also be
conditions attached to the recommendation of conceptual approval .
They will be identical conditions which the Commission attached
the last time around . If the Commission feels that there is
something that may have changed since the last time the Commission
reviewed this application, the Commission can go through the
review process again. But they are identical projects with
the exception of the reduction on the footprint.
Vann will draft a framework from which the Commission can work
with the issues.
Pardee is uncomfortable not looking at the current proposal .
The Commission is agreeing to the current proposal only because
the Commission looked at a similar proposal before. This is
not part of the PUD parcel but it is part of the approval f or
the larger PUD. Vann suggested the applicants put up site plans
and elevations at the time the resolution is reviewed. If there
are any questions at that time the engineering department will
be here to comment . By then engineering will have reviewed
this. He will also present to the Commission the three conditions
of the prior application. He proposed to take the conditions
of final approval from the earlier application and attach them
at this stage to this proposal . The project will be identical
throughout the entire process.
Hunt said the problem is not with the housing authority ' s mix
as far as numbers are concerned, but with location. He has
great reservations about the location of low income units at
ABC. He wants to see low income units in town. Vann suggested
a condition agree with the mix and price guidelines established
by the housing authority. The Commission can request the applicants
re-evaluate the distribution of those units under the guidelines
as a condition of conceptual approval . Give the applicants
an opportunity to address the problems.
Harvey noted the ABC units, based on page four of the letter
from Jim Curtis, one-bedroom units are 550 square feet, two-
bedroom units are 750 square feet.
White preferred as much employee housing in town including the
23
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission May 8. 1984
lower income units. The lower income employees will not have
cars . He wants the building to be a mix of income levels .
Hunt argued there is not a convenient transportation system
at the ABC. That is the problem. Harvey argued the level of
convenience of the transportation system is determined by the
carpooling and vans the hotel provides and the bus system.
Harvey said include something on the Commission' s concern about
the distribution of the mix in the resolution.
Vann proposed to include in the resolution the circumstances
surrounding Alpina Haus and Copper Horse and the conditions
which have been placed upon them by the Commission. He plans
to send a complete packet to Council on the employee housing .
The Commission adresses the appropriateness of the ABC units.
Harvey said the issue with ABC is the confusion over the word
"metro . " Although the Commission has said the "metropolitan"
area is the proper place for employee housing, many commissioners
are now indicating differentiating areas within the metropolitan
area.
Vann said it would be helpful to define the nature of the problem
with ABC from the commissioners. Price or mix is not a problem
if the distribution is resolved. The only issue the planning
office raised as to the appropriateness of ABC is transportation.
It can be argued that ABC is already serving employee housing
functions, and, therefore, employees are being dislocated .
This dislocation has to be balanced in a way that the housing
authority addresses the problem: there is no guarantee the ABC
units will service employees in the future. It has always been
the policy to deed restrict units which are currently built
to guarantee the availability of employee housing and which
have no negative impacts on the growth rate.
There is an application pending before the county for consideration
of condominiumizing the ABC. The units are functioning already
at a price level that is becoming less competitive with the
rental market place in town. The units are full during the
peak season and vacant during the off season because of the
price structure. The units are becoming less long term housing. ABC
is not comparable with Castle Ridge and Centennial Phase IV.
The owners of ABC are already looking at ways of converting
these units to condominiums . The depreciation on the rental
24
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission May 8. 1984
units is finished. The units have been there for a considerable
amount of time. There is a good chance the ABC units will disappear
from the rental pool . There is now the opportunity to deed
restrict half of the ABC units for fifty years and to provide
the units at a rental level which are lower than is what currently
charged at ABC now.
Anderson expressed no problem with the ABC alternative with
the exception of the transportation. The applicants ' solution
is ambitious . It is the proper approach.
Harvey said the premise is that people have been living out
there already and have been driving to town or downvalley .
There is no new construction which would impact the highway
or increase usage on the highway. It is good the applicants
can consolidate the transportation. Historically many buildings
built as employee housing have made mistakes . After a period
of time the depreciation is gone, and a time comes when owners
need to figure out what to do with the units, for example, condo-
miniumize. Subsequently, the units are withdrawn from the rental
market.
Pardee said if this were the only proposal by the applicants
he would oppose it. But the fact that two-thirds of the employees
will be in town mitigates some of his concerns. What are the
other alternatives? He does not like restricting units that
are already rented close to what is in effect employee rentals.
However, the units are getting older . The market is bearing
what it can. The Commission is not changing the price structure
much deed restricting the units. The opportunity for housing
69 employees elsewhere is relinquished . On the other hand,
the applicants are providing legitimate employee housing in
town . The applicants can mitigate transportation problems by
returning at preliminary with a transportation schedule commit-
ment . But the city is not gaining any employee housing with
this solution. He prefers to look at other alternatives. Two-
thirds of the employee housing solution is acceptable.
Wells cited Hunter Creek . This was a rental project which the
owner received the right to condominiumize. It would be desirable
now to buy the units and deed restrict them. Pardee favored
someone buying the units, and not deed restrict but rent them.
Wells said that is what will happen at ABC. Pardee did not
think so. ABC is not close to town. There are no views. Vann
said the ABC units would have to be improved just like Hunter
25
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planninu and Zoning Commission May 8. 1984
Creek. The idea at ABC is to get permission to build additional
row houses . Economic reasons are driving the owners to submit
an application for condominiumization. He assumed the owners
would upgrade the facilities with cosmetic treatment, like Hunter
Creek, and sell the units . Pardee said the real question is
how much will the units sell above the guidelines. Harvey argued
the issue is the units will be outside of the guidelines and
they will not be controlled.
Pichie Cohen, consultant for the applicants, remembered these
units are being deed restricted for fifty years. Given today' s
circumstance, the units are renting slightly above the guidelines.
What is the price going to be in five years when Centennial
is finished? What is the price going to be when there is a real
demand again for employee housing, and the city has lost control
of the Airport Business Center?
Fallin is opposed to the ABC solution. She does not favor the
distance from town. The applicants have not made any effort
to put any employees on-site . The applicants ' argument is that
square footage on the PUD has been reduced by 76 , 000 square
feet, and, consequently, there is no room for employee housing
on-site . The applicants have not resolved this issue. She
wants more employee housing within the city limits.
White concurs with Fallin and Pardee. ABC is not in Aspen metro.
Harvey interjected according to the definition of "metro" ABC
is within Aspen metro area . White continued . He _supported
the other three proposals in town. He would like to see the
same thing with ABC. He will be more lenient toward ABC if
it is proven the applicants have exhausted all alternatives .
Doremus emphatically said the applicants will never consider
building something new. The applicants do not want to go through
the constant hassle with height, bulk, density, etc. Building
new units is not viable. Also, there are no opportunities to
build.
Vann said in all fairness to the applicants the code does not
discriminate against off-site locations . It is unfair if the
applicants provide off-site housing and the Commission turns
around and says off-site housing is not an acceptable component
of the housing solution . If the Commission wants to phrase
the objection in some other terms, for example, the commuting
time, be advised phrase the objection that way.
26
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission May 8, 1984
White replied then transportation is the reason for his objection.
Curtis asked if the issue is the impact on Highway 82 . White
is talking about the impact on Highway 82; talking about the
employees checking in at 2 : 00 in the morning; talking about
at least eight employee parking spaces on-site; etc. Curtis
asked if white agrees by operating a shuttle into a common location
that the impact on Highway 82 will be reduced. white said he
does not disagree from a conceptual point of view. He disagrees
based on actuality. Curtis replied that translates into impact
on Highway 82, there is an inconsistency in his statement .
White said the transportation impacts have not been mitigated
to his satisfaction. Curtis argued the applicants are reducing
the impacts.
Vann said the clear issue is transportation. There are measures
which the applicants can take which will reduce the transportation
implications associated with housing some of the people in that
location. One way to deal with this is to restrict the occupancy
at ABC to a minimal number of hotel employees. Locate the bulk
of hotel employees in town. If the applicants house off-site
outside of downtown, employees for 700 South Galena or the hotel,
the propensity for increased traffic is probably greater than
if the employees are housed in town. There is no way at this
point to determine how many will ride the van, will drive to
town and park illegally, etc . It is reasonable to say that
the transportation implications will be different between in
and out of town . The applicants have taken a position to try
to mitigate problems. Another way to address the issue is to
restrict the occupancy in town to hotel employees.
Doremus asked the Commission to consider the employee . The
ABC apartments are quite nice . It is an attractive place to
live, more attractive than anything else . If the applicants
relinquish the ABC solution, and if there even was another choice,
the alternative would be less attractive from an employee ' s
perspective. Not everybody wants to live on Cooper or Highway
82 . Not everybody wants to live in something like the Alpina
Haus. There is a need for a mix. ABC is nice housing. The
applicants will fight very hard for ABC, it is preferable housing.
Hunt shares Pardee ' s and Fallin ' s concern . However, he also
agrees with Doremus ' argument. But the only way the Airport
Business Center would be acceptable to him, and the only way
he could conceptually think of the project in the metro area,
27
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission May 8. 1984
is if the project has the same level of transportation service
as the Water Plant Housing or Cemetery Lane . That does not
eliminate the solution of a shuttle service to serve the hotel
employees . That means there be the level of transportation
that the other areas enjoy. Vann said this is impossible . The
route which services the Airport Business Center, the downvalley
route, provides a different interval than the city bus service.
Hunt replied then that is a problem. Harvey said the problem
can theoretically be mitigated depending on the employees schedule.
Harvey noted his problems . He would like to see housing in
town or on-site. The applicants have to solve the transportation.
But he agreed with Doremus . He has encountered the problem
of employee housing with the Hotel Jerome. Employee housing
cannot be located all at one place . Employee housing has to
be mixed. Employee housing has to work for the employee. The
reason for employee housing is to encourage employees to stay.
If good employee housing is provided an employee will stay .
He likes the mix of the four projects.
In summary the Commission' s position is: two favor the solution,
one needs to have the transportation solved, two opposed . It
appears there is not a consensus vote on the employee housing
unless ABC is further discussed.
Cohen commented that some arguments have been based on that
there are other alternatives and that the applicants have not
exhausted the alternatives . There are parcels of land that
could conceivably work as employee housing if the parcels receive
the kinds of zoning changes that had been available before.
The Council will not permit those kinds of changes. What might
be a logical site becomes absolutely unworkable. The Benedict-
Larkin site was dependent on a zoning change which the Council
was reluctant to grant. The planning office made certain recommen-
dations . That project did not work at all within the price
guidelines . The neighborhood revolted . Between fifteen and
twenty possible projects have been analyzed. ABC works.
Wells commented that before serious consideration was given
to Ute City Place, there was a question of whether prior approval
of the Ute City Place was still in effect . He is confident
if the prior approval is not still in effect, this Council will
never approve it . The prior approval provides the leverage to
make Ute City Place work.
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission May 8. 1984
Doremus asked if the Snowmass county bus runs every hour on
the hour . Harvey replied the service changes during the year .
Fallin noted there is a charge also. Hunt suggested the applicants
approach the transportation authority and lobby support to service
ABC. What good is it to shuttle employees back and forth, and
then later the employee has to take his car to town? Doremus
said the buses run on the hour every hour during peak season.
Pardee suggested a condition that the applicants satisfy the
transportation issue. His concern is philosophical . He does
not think the city is gaining any employee housing. Cohen' s
argument is valid. Five years from now Aspen may experience
only 6% increases, and everyone else 80 , that is a sizeable
difference . That needs to be considered. He does not have
the answers. what happens with future applicants? What happens
to next year 's GMP? Harvey said a problem has been created. The
inventory of low housing is being eaten up. Employee housing
was created to avoid a discrepancy. But the results will be
two types of housing: the very rich and the regulated housing;
there will no housing in between. Pardee said then anything
that is not restricted will sell quickly; this supports Cohen' s
argument.
Vann reiterated the housing authority supports the entire solution.
They are a recommending referral body. The Commission has no
review authority with regards to ABC other than recommending
its appropriateness. This is same authority the housing authority
has. He suggested the Commission put a resolution together.
If the Commission cannot resolve the ABC, then include denial
of this solution, include the housing authority ' s opinion, and
then Council can resolve the issue. State the Commission is
divided on this issue . The applicants are not in a position
at this time to look for other solutions . Harvey agreed to
the resolution with the understanding there is dissension .
Curtis said John McBride is in before the county for condominium-
ization. McBride argues he is consciously raising the rents,
and, therefore, there are more vacancies than a year ago. Clearly
McBride is mandating a certain level of vacancies because it
is in his best interest. How many people would one be placing
in three to five years if McBride continues along that procedure?
(Anderson leaves the chambers. )
Harvey suggested Jim Adamski be present at the next meeting.
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning_ anI Zoning Commission May 8. 1984
Hunt asked if any other commissioners support his proposal on
transportation. Vann said the applicants may have no ability
to affectuate this. Doremus replied the applicants do not want
to take responsibility for this. Harvey said there is a level
of traffic on the highway during the peak season that emanates
from that housing because that housing exists. There is currently
no control over the amount of traffic impact on the highway.
The applicants will improve the traffic situation on the highway
if they come up with a reasonable plan for shuttling their employees
which revolves around shifts, changing at the hotel or some
format. To mandate that the service at a certain level according
to the clock is the wrong way to handle the problem. Hunt reiterated
ABC, to be valid employee housing, has to have the same services
as provided to employees within the close metro area. Vann
said then the code needs to be amended as the acceptableness
of metro housing because there are metro locations that have
no service whatsoever. wells reminded the Commission that the
ABC may not house hotel employees, the extraction required is
in association with the residential GriP proposal not necessarily
with lodge employees.
Vann suggested the Commission think about why it put "metro"
in the GMP application. That is a recognition on the Commission' s
part that there are very few sights politically acceptable in
the local area.
White encouraged more attention be given to the overall transpor-
tation plan for the valley. The Commission needs to provide
some input on this issue .
Perry Harvey adjourned the meeting at 7: 30 p.m.
��J/li
Barbara Norris, Deputy City Clerk
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