HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.apz.19841016 RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission _Qgtqb,2r_l6. 1984
Chairman Perry Marvey called the meeting to oraor it 5 : 05 j .z. WW,
co nMsioncrs jasinina Tygra , P":1,y Failizi, Witcai Twulerson, N.-,
PurAcn, Roger Hunt, and Hari Peyton jrescnt .
COMMISSIONERS' COMMENTS
7 tad on the reorganizntion and new assignmant of narnint]
jpocas for cNicial cars on thn south sidc ol City 2ali , K An ,
conyininK to the police chief. Tkorc i W U UiSVgrCeQenL L._ 7 J
hou many spaces wore lost to the public for o,:f icial use .
QunL counted three upaces . Win nroblem is moot becriuso tjjf�
situntion is LeDoorary. Parking spaccs an the j A t no K
My Nall Auve hs �h ratninsd for official warking ratQ�r
�Wnnwrcial parking . This MLuation will 4mist until tilt ?wlic-
Wpartment !novas to m1'. 1 !_
anicc2 urn for sheriM cars.
�7!YrO WaS in the audionce at the last Council necting. 70
disturtal t-'-ic dismissal procadure of the planning direcLar .
Sho rocommanded that the Comoission adopt a resolution
nhe Commission' s dismay at Council ' s actionp. Wn would Hnn 0
onplurn a way for the Commission to :7ritc, :� ir. Lti,--r of
for Sunny Vann. Vann did 6o a really good Joe.). -'-`ie in
which his job was terminated will not look good on a resuNw.
Airvey sugges&0 that the planning office prepare a resoMonEnca6ing 'Vann ' s service . Harvey rcoorted on at teivolron-
convcrsation with Vann. He told Vann I-Ie r.,-,ould be more thon happ-
to write a letter of recommendation . But nerhaos those _ _ n -_ r.
come from the MOM& commissiondrs. The question V---,
whathur to prepare a resolution com.-aenl�in�! Va nn ' �. servica or
whather to prepara a resolution disclai-..,,ing CoUlIcil ' s
Alan RicNaan, planning office, intarjected it is not appropriat,,-
Cor the planning office to draft a resolution patting its21! nl-
tho back . Tic asked the Commission to write the resolution
izsclf given the personnel nature of thr-. TI --
agreed co attempt to write a resolution or letter, but, he novieu
sono direction from the Commission as to whether the statemenIL-
shoult be pro Vann or anti Council . Tygre favored both a lwtWf
sugporting Vann and a reSOILItion expressing the Commi3sioni .-
Cis .:.tisfaction with Council ' s handling of Vann ' s dismissal .
Y :rvey talked with Hill Kirling three times in the last couylL of
Says ahout this issue . Uarvey reported that Stirling was iryin-:j-
Lo nteeL with (Council to DersuDde Council to reconsidwr its,
acuions . Harvey did not Galieve Stirling ' s idea wouli go over
vcry well . Melton Anderson arrives in tho chambers . ) Stirlinr,,
alaw requested a macting riont Tuesday, October 23rd, a 000
p. m. in the chambers with the Commissioners. Harvey told Stirlin,_-,-
An was ontremoly u?set with Council ' s handling of tho ict oplitn ,
77agan i5i Nerriam, at the Octobcr Tth Council - vntinU. Cauncil ' .71
nci.isns appoarac. -,tu contr7diction Lu the city ' s iso"incj
1
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular f4geting Plannina and zoning Commission October 16, 1984
T 1 o t i I i b _ or c t r o u,-.,, 3 U I':I. i or,
6 t
t 17 r o co,s o u nc s C-_i ons !s v� 2 t'..ro t._: t
law.,�uit- . Harvey sai,_ t'ac com"'Anatiof: o- 3 1-,1 IL
7i"11,10i2s over t1l r)" anning o__F i ce a,i d t 11 ,, I o'L -,71 ts cou_, �,d
t 7
c_::,.-icellat-.ion of the� scheduled joint isle-'tin `;J
Council aria t he i So i
-on for Octobcr 15th ,,7ithout resc
..ate v7 a s a s 1 a- in t1(2 t i r 1 i n tole! T T a r..7 o.-v h
e
f-ro-'%1 t c o 1 s s 1 o n e r s a,n d ,'i ants to P. t wit i-
C 01-1-m i s s i o n e r s for one nour on Oct-ol,,-)er 2 3 rG1 Harvel.,
1" u: J_
07cl" ss
tliion if on,_- hour 1. 0 sufficient aml) nt o-� timc, to
tl _T
is sues. Stirlinc told 74arve-v he will tr-,.7 to t,°!:)l e U 11
_ouncil IiaS an opportunity to �,Ieet With IC I
Co,',',71
c c of: s s i o na 11 v in i ts; h,-,-, i i1 C� C,
agr-_ed Council acted un-,)_
r, buy „ e is r e a 11 v a n o r v at t lh1 r2 Council ' s l3cl, of i., --'c-r-
no to ,�.,h;� ik-11 e Com-Assion has I:)c-e n doing for r
i n q� t
issues which th�, Council cited as to %,71`y It -:710 4L J r
a r i_ 1 s s u S, t h3,t t'a e C o r.um i SS ion i- about ready to s 00.. f-
ot `icicnt ti-m. 11'1h,_ -mcctinq; s i
I L
_)n-cil Onz, I i ou r i s i suf
v,i 11,C i-c t-i v u 7"i-ifl," 'Aceting shoulcI., 7C a. dog and pony snow ol-1 t
�Manning proccs-z �-,as been what the s,-,etch -plans :ire:
4 �2 i
ll -; l i
—;ion iion is T t!"ile nlans, and how is-ie -olans i-tav',
n, should -ialre Dr,_-,sent �Hscussion shoul
D
on(�. 'TI-1 e Commission should not deimelmi the
i n i na fingers _t Council ' s lac;, o- nrofossionp.lismi. TL i
to 2ducate Council on what thr-, C o,-,-r r,i i ss s ion ha lbc,
�-oink; over the last year. CounCil is not aware of how mmcla
I a s s-D e n t d i s c u s.- s J_n h i s s u e s o r
mmiss;ion h
has accomplished. T7anW 0!- the. Com-l',,iission ' -0 accoi-pli __.
arc-, exactly what Council 4J,-
Irl'S
i Council were to thinl: it ,-,oul(-,' ha e I-,,-)
-Z g r c r F,o e 1 -1 A 71
T1 t 'n u n C
c,� C o mm s s o n for several hour-- that
L
Dack Out S h e� -rre(i to _j r 4..e to t, _ . 00 p. i.,
._._. rd -o that a diz;cussion of t.'ric issue_--- could at
ri i t J_ tedl Thr:n t2o .qneting coul(` 10-- continue,6. rlrhr_> 13SUC.'s c F_l 1 1 J t
red 1 P, a o,,,c- nour session.
-it
V 3-aid Counc wa- a joint mecting on t"c sue ,
+-ha n an hour. Tf SPA t` e
C gill e_a ily t:;;._, iorc
4- .-
1 , ,e o b e r ?arc joint :�ie n
ocussiof L Oct
j t
c c-),u I c]` enu- t-11-0 Joint T.icetin�_: th-c-n and t1'.'ere. Thor-e would'
tiic. fcur diialoquc of-, the other i ysi es. 'Hunt said inform C o U,1,c I I
(." .. _ -T,lil,
L.11-1 a one hour rnec:'- i ng is insufficii,�.ln - amount
f o r e I I a 1-1 d, �1-I �t L L- It
o, cover the i,,iaterial. 11-arvey Said thC difLficultV in
4-]1 --nr- t! - n -..is T u,.,,s a t 0 0 -o.T,-,.. i S tl e r e 1 s a n ott 1-1(.,r ,ii - V i
C C
,,,u at � : 'O whi-h rc-uires Com ciil _ L,-- f-__!.t .,:?:.. . .
C ho c o r.171 1 s s i o ne,r t ha h c, I
g
to t t o r,7, t.
Courcil
s c: s i cl n, i-r o� 1,_p1% t-o q cn s
t i t-
U c 1 (11 1 C11
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission October 16,
A -
(1 0 C t I: a
o gist. c _.;_-r6 0 c t o b r 91 19 1 T is z t n 2.,
4 1 4-
it o u 1 d" I-I-av c b n v,-2 r y i f i u
r c,S t c i r c u ias,t a n c e s
i!-"(11 us s so-!actiiing, as esoteric as goals tat tlnc -:oir)t mee t i n
_V !3 1,JC�Qtiil��j T-,7,' -a so c::,,nceiled be—ause s o o t il
., I - - L_�-,C,
-i+7t to�.;_ra. 71,i c hmi a n d 1C1 a 1:e It u,-)o,,, h ims) I
wc,r c.
t1le SPi'll me—to t7r t 1 next Council
_)Ctol r
t Q,.::o a n t r s C o 7,1 c i I s r_-�uost-ions in t 111 w a v t h c- C_o.-L-t,,).I J.,
s"7 red the r1pu e s,t i on s in t 11 c S P' r e s o 1 u t i o n —ch-1.,Lan
t I I-,,_ :^:r'_:L C o u,,c i ic e t i n q. n v o-L t.7h r2- S:)T3. _J c
Vt�lfl SO tl-iat t',-ie- ? :,)int M c-�etinq on t 13r -il I i Ir-)L
c I 1U t c r C. w i t C7. C i i 4 Ur
G; S PA. r r-" Ot_
.1 4- 4-
.41 C U S S
c r -Iior c s i r-1 I
j i I`i c a n t i s s L, s- that a t s:I'l o u 1 d 1 - (
i t1l., I "',f- -'�or
-1- 1-11 1 l3:,r,, 6i recti! n
ra t i n 9 -w
':dill o ou
ncrage t ma -r t
- c city fa_ g�_-
1:�01 S i Z�-2 0 O't(�j s C L,S Z,4
rec:-10,1 C
J d U 1
L il n a �D C!-Z, L I
to iii 4
r ,7 e-v 17 u L t a 1 i r rig b o ut
r e shoulf-, b c o i n 7 i t:: t-I- one hou r J
t.nt again reC,,uestc-C, that Counci
I c in- o r in J t.,1 t 71:
t- n icienl- to -a!' th"i issues.
f
(7
ded -hat -he Com..-aliss, or, Would a� e":DC-Ict Ll L J.
concl.1-
on Octobc r 23 ru
-)ressinq d i s- �ly at Co;�in.
11t U, about tlne resolution c.-
1 n c, ?.i1 t1 i r s o,n nil d i s im i f,s a I v g r n r e r r c, o g Ir
-eco rr' her ooinion oil Council s ct *1 or
-inci' of formal 0.,_, on action.
17--,rv'--y said h,-:! aou-IC�. try to write _:-, r c,s o I u I-- i',D
,ssin� this.
MINUTES
QqtQb 1 CCf- 4 OnS
2 1984: liarve,,-, mad--2 t'4,.e -E'o11o,,-iinq corr �L
'ITT
0", one_ 4 n paragraph two, cpl�_MCJ Llarve�. in cou-
_TILAI)t ancl Tygr,'-, to defftnitely rearxi,.)1y" to "Ilairve n C(_-'c r:
_T1
ul P,t , j,,c,r E. , a n,1 P a r 6,-,2 to d e f i n 1 t e 1 y re p,,:)1-y,
T_arJL SeVC111, il-I t12e 1,-Ist paragr%a:)h, chL-mg1c
J
rfurntion is Si i:,, am:l nine" to "t.1-le coi,1fi(,1ur, Lic.,i,
SIX, S I.A
thous lnwnj scfuare fcet, si:. t iousand sc-uare
'...,;ousand souare fcet, and ninc thousand scivare� feet. "
3 . Jr: -)agf_, th,ree, in th- third oaraorap'h, Changcl "cjrcrr.,
- nc, l- _ (Q r?g 1i n a 1 1 1 cation n r o c c s_s a s
,74 .7 --
2."
' t c f:i r F.t iDie-ce
t r o o I t 7,7 U m
S 0",1 C Cc C-
717
into too7r3" to o r L,7
't C)
(D r,e s e onc
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGO
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission gctober 16. 1984
sI':-_t;I_, _-rucr-.5" to on
A C, V e,TI L 1T1 last pr-,iracjrap
C A r.1 cl C-1
o-,.- r allocatioli 15 r cc ui red Y "ouncill -action" to 11 . . . ca _ GtC
n r uir= council action.
Motion:
Ilunt :dove di to a-o p r ov e t h c i io,i n u t s of 0 c t-o I)c r 2
A 'U� T
d; econ-dr� b y Pat Fallin. -All i i f av,, motion carri—i.
PUBLIC HEARING
SUNNY PARK ANNEXATION ZONING
"lorn, planning o-_`LHce- , r-e'c�rrcd to L two iaps, in the c
._)_--rcel und(_--r (1-iscussion is located at nortl on6 7 -12i r
Circ"Le,, on tle right side of the cul-de-sac, across thr,.,
__ 1 I-lico Fisher/PrI.ealville duplez. '7 p- r - :i 111.
�I Ll That building was ,L
e, r oy e J b a f i r e i n tile' s urim,e r 0 1 3 . II"Ihe site is
t;,c--, St"e,_)- slop,,�s, of Srtiuggler lountain. .��e sitr_ i" I
tr .verse,d by the Salvation Ditch i,7hich .-Iialkes access to th_' i t c-
if-cicult.
4
r c_t n o
ne a r s lannimi" y Ji
pr000s
N, ed the e xt d
nsion of Park Circle fro-.q t1ne cu - c-
L;.L 3�_a n c E:
�S_c tC S-oruce Stroct. "nat e::tension L%,ill -rovido -A-Ces:.� 4 C) 4 1
pro]ect :_:LnJ ,,7111 dtivert some of th_ tra-f"Eic o.EI-7 1 C i C)n
:V i I U i >Scn 3 a iia r r c),I s t r: et n d cla-11not
.i, o-(-u�r to 'build the �ro.,.i Park ("irc]-e last suitr-Lelr
o-an t y acquirecl Lot -Seven. he county purcha s e d, Lot S C,v
or,'.,r to utilizte the front portion of the lot (6 , 900
L) o r tI �7
L lic, road right-o-f-T. ay. rLlhe county also owns tlhe lan";
i `i is to tI-ie north, to the- east, and is contiguoots to 'A'O`t_
C
7 11. h e�
lot is not subdivided and is vacant . T, c(),u L
n Js to Morro-,.? 5 , 900 .s c, fr_,et a:ro,-,i t-he contiguous v.
reshape Lot Seven. The new road extension will be Sri ite--f-I ji;
front portion of Lot Seven. Lot Seven will take on a new confi-
guration with the 6, 900 square feet borrowed from the adjacent
county owned land.- The new configuration- will be sold to recoup
the county' s original investment, the purchase price of Lot
Seven. There is only one portion of the site which is buildable,
near the top of the lot where the 6 , 900 square feet will be
added.
The purpose of this public hearing is to clean up the zoning in
the area. The county has petitioned the city to annex the 6 , 900
square feet which is located just to the north of Lot Seven. The
City Council has expressed its intent to go forward with the
annexation. The city is required to rezone that parcel within
ninety days.
4
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission October 16. 1984
The planning office proposes that the piece of land, the 6 , 900
square feet, that is being added to Lot Seven be zoned R-15 (A) .
That is consistent with past city policy. The city usually
designates annexed land with the R-15 (A) and not with R-15.
The difference between the two is that a free market duplex
can be built on a R-15 parcel; half of the duplex has to be deed
restricted for employee housing on a R-15 (A) parcel. Duplexing
is not an issue. The slope density reduction calculation for the
site allows only for the development of a single family unit.
The R-15 (A) is therefore not that necessary. But, he supported
consistency with annexations and zonings and advised the designation
of R-15 (A) .
Horn reported he received calls from neighbors in the area. He
explained to them there probably would never be a duplex on the
lot. The lot ' s maximum square footage is 15,191 as shown on map
two. After the slope density calculations the adjusted buildable
area is 11,000 square feet which is not close to the necessary
square footage for the construction of a duplex. But with the R-
15 (A) if there were a mistake in the slope density reduction
calculation at least one half of the duplex would be deed re-
stricted.
Horn recommended the zone designation of R-15 (A) PUD for the annexed
6 , 900 square foot piece and the designation of R-15 (A) PUD for Lot
Seven. The new parcel therefore would be zoned entirely R-
15 (A) PUD. The land in the Park Circle vicinity is zoned R-15
PUD.
Harvey clarified that the application addresses the current Lot
Seven of Sunny Park North subdivision. Will the newly defined
parcel have to be renamed? Horn explained the new parcel is
identified with a new surveyed legal description. Harvey emphasized
that the present Lot Seven will not be the same lot seven that
the Commission will be addressing in its recommendation for
rezoning. Horn said his recommendation is specific: "the rezoning
of Lot Seven and then the rezoning of the contiguous piece of
property to the north which- will be added to Lot Seven. " All this
is legally described in the ordinance. Therefore, there should
be no question. Harvey asked what is the zone designation for the
6 , 900 square feet which is being subtracted from Lot Seven for
use as the right-of-way for the proposed extension of Park
Circle. Horn said this action today is the beginning of another
process. A lot line adjustment application is coming forward in
a few weeks. That subtracted piece will be addressed at the future
meeting. That parcel will still be zoned as part of Lot Seven.
It is not unusual to zone right-of-ways. Harvey did not want a
piece of city property without a zoning designation.
Harvey opened the public hearing.
Jeremy Flug, resident of 165 Park Circle, requested a review of the
maps. Horn proceeded to explain the proposal to Flug.
5
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission October 16. 1984
Harvey closed the public hearing.
Notion:
Roger Hunt moved to recommend that Lot Seven of Sunny Park
North be rezoned from R-15 PUD to R-15 (A) PUD and that the 6, 900
square foot piece to be annexed by the city be zoned R-15 (A)
PUD. The reason for the recommendation is basically to maintain
the consistency of annexing property from the county zoned R-15
to R-15 (A) . To avoid confusion over split zoning on the property
the Commission recommends the entire lot in effect be zoned R-15 (A)
PUD. The motion is seconded by Jasmine Tygre. All in favor,
motion carried.
NEW BUSINESS
DISCUSSION OF OPEN SPACE IN L-3 ZONE
Richman summarized the points of the memorandum from the planning
office dated October 16th. The 35% open space requirement which
the city imposed in the L-3 zone followed on the heels of the 35%
open space requirement in the residential zone. The 35% open
space requirement was not determined by any real magical analysis
for the L-3 district . The rationale for the 35% open space
requirement in the L-3 zone was based on the fact that there was
a 35% open space requirement in the residential zone and that L-3
lodges were located in the middle of residential zones. Kaufman,
representative for the Nugget, did discover during the reconstruc-
tion of the Nugget that the 35% open space requirement forced the
building to expand vertically, the height had to be increased to
meet the open space requirement. The Nugget owners were forced to
add height as opposed to use existing lot area.
Richman did review the regulations. He discovered the definition
of open space in the code specifically excludes swimming pools
and other recreational areas. If open space were to mean only
green area then swimming pools would be excluded. He defined
open space as that which offers variety to the building and that
which offers a visual buffer between buildings . As long as
there is not a structure on the open space then recreational
purposes are consistent with open space purposes. He reasoned a
swimming pool in open space is consistent with open space. He
concluded there is some conceptual merit to the idea that swimming
pools not be a penalizing factor in the calculation of open
space. If swimming pools were not calculated in open space and
if lodges were expected to have 35% open space on top of that
amenity then a lodge owner in L-3 may be forced to eliminate the
amenity and to increase the building height. The Nugget chose to
build vertically. Richman preferred not to increase the height.
He favored swimming pools. Pools are nice amenities especially
for the lodges along Main Street.
6
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Neetina Planning and Zoning Commission October 16, 1984
Richman concluded there is a way to deal with this issue .
He referred to the solution of open space for restaurants in
the downtown area. Restaurants go through special review for
approval of the use of open space. Outdoor dining is a positive
use of space in the downtown area. He opposed the sterilization
of open space. This community has fairly scarce land resources.
Perhaps create language to permit the Commission to allow by
special review swimming pools and other recreational areas.
Conceptually Richman supported the idea that swimming pools and
open space are consistent and not mutually exclusive.
Fallin remarked that a fence has to be built around a pool for
insurance purposes. A fence may be considered a structure. Her
definition of open space ja green grass with trees. She has a
difficult time with the inclusion of swimming pool, patio, walks,
cement, and fence in the definition of open space.
Pardee concurred with Fallin. If there were only a three foot
fence built around a pool then the fenced in area would be an
acceptable part of open space. But if the fence were six feet
then the fenced in area would not be open space and the area
should not be counted as open space. The goal is to force the
lodges to abide by more stringent requirements. Lodges which are
greater in mass and FAR than the residential dwellings are
located primarily in the residential zone, a very sensitive
zone . A fence is really part of the building. If insurance
companies accept three foot fences then include the fenced in
area in open space. He would like the lodges to have the ability
to count a pool in open space. However, the open space requirement
is not for the lodge residents but for the neighborhood residents
and motorists. The open space requirement softens the massing.
He adamantly opposed the reduction of the 35% open space requirement
for lodges. Lodges are the most impacting masses in the residential
neighborhoods.
Harvey commented that a private residential owner is allowed to
build up to a six foot fence on his property line. Is fencing
one ' s property a violation of open space? Pardee replied no.
He recognized the inconsistency. Anyone can build a 5 ' -11"
fence. A single family house has an acceptable FAR in the
residential zone. Harvey reasoned a lodge, like the Nugget,
could in theory build a six foot solid fence around the entire
property. The fence would solve the problem of the swimming pool
insurance. But, the fence would effectively destroy the visual
effect of open space for a motorist or pedestrian.
Bil Dunaway, publisher for the Aspen Times, interpreted the
definition of open space in the code as = permitting a fence
even in the residential area. He quoted: "opened to the sky and
opened to the street. " Certainly a six foot fence does not open
the space to the street. Harvey commented that there is a
section in the zoning code which allows one to build a six foot
7
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning.Commission October 16. 1984
fence. Dunaway remembered that open space has just recently been
applied to residential areas. Richman agreed. But there appears
to be an inconsistency in the code between open space and fencing
in the residential zone.
Anderson said a five or six foot fence facing the street is not
an obstruction to the street because the fence is not part of the
building. Surface area of water is not counted in open space
either. Theoretically, if there were a brook traversing a piece
of property which one could swim in then the brook could not be
counted in open space. There is a need for consistency in
the code. He is not bothered by a fenced in area being counted in
open space especially in residential zones. Fencing is required
for outdoor dining in open space.
Hunt asked if 35% open space is required in residential zones.
Richman replied yes. 25% open space is the requirement in the L-
1 and L-2 zones and 35% open space in the L-3 zone. Hunt noted
an inconsistency. The L-3 expands over many underlying zones.
Why not have the underlying zone determine the open space require-
ment? Richman corrected that the L-3 is the underlying zone. L-
3 is not an overlay it is a zone. Harvey asked if different
open space requirements can be applied to different parts of L-
3. Hunt noted the contiguous zone to L-3 is 0 (office) . Richman
responded that there may be some legal problems with the application
of another district' s area and bulk requirements to a property
outside the district. Hunt said if the FAR were to be defined as
that which is required in the contiguous zone, for example,
specifically in the case of L-3 , then what would be the
problem. Richman said the city specifically examined and determined
the most appropriate requirements for the L-3 . If the Commission
were inclined to change all the area and bulk requirements of the
L-3 zone then the Commission may do that. But do not create an
area and bulk requirement that represents what is surrounding the
L-3 . That is not a viable legal tool.
Hunt discussed the purpose of the 35% open space requirement for
L-3 . Many lodges are in the residential zone. It is appropriate
to have the open space requirement for L-3 consistent with the
surrounding zone. But now it has been discovered that there is
a L-3 zone not surrounded by the residential zone. Richman advised
the Commission against establishing multiple FAR' s for the L-3
zone. That leads to unequal protection under the law.
Harvey asked how many lodges in the L-3 have the potential to
expand. Richman answered eight to ten lodges.
Harvey summarized Richman' s proposal : keep the 35% open space
requirement for L-3 but allow through special review swimming
pools and other recreation areas in required open space areas.
Gideon Kaufman, representative for the Nugget, explained the
Nugget has already resolved the problem of the open space issue
8
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Reetinq Planning and Zoning Commission October 16. 1984
in the L-3 zone: the condomimium is being built upward. He is only
bringing the issue of open space in the L-3 zone to the Commission' s
attention because he recognized some problems. Harvey said the
proposal then is to create another special review whereby a
better design can be achieved on a given L-3 lodge. There is no
intent in Richman' s proposal to lower the open space to 25% .
There is no intent in Richman' s proposal to give the lodge more
mass. Instead the proposal gives the lodge owner the opportunity
to present a better design and gives the Commission the opportunity
to judge the design.
Tygre supported Richman' s approach. Handling swimming pools
through special review is consistent with the handling of restaurant
uses in open space. She is not concerned about the color of open
space; it can be turquoise instead of green. As long as there is
not a specific structure on the open space, then fine. There
should be more flexibility. Pools, with or without bodies in it,
should be considered open space. Special review provides the
Commission the opportunity to review the fencing design and to
review the insurance requirements.
Kaufman explained the reason for bringing the problems forward.
During the designing phase of the Nugget it was discovered that
the design options for restructuring were restricted. However,
the Nugget was located on a parcel large enough that would
accommodate both a large pool and Jacuzzi area. If the Nugget were
not able to build upward then it would have had to remove the
pool. Removing the pool would have been counter productive. If
the special review were adopted, the Nugget may or may not
take advantage of the special review. Negative effects are many
times not interpreted or contemplated during the review process of
the regulation. Some lodges may decide to eliminate pools to
meet the open space requirement. That may not be necessary. He
supported the retention of the 35% open space requirement in the
L-3 zone and the inauguration of a special review. The special
review provides an applicant an option to keep the pool or to put
a pool in. Presently, if a lodge went through a renovation
process the addition of a pool as an amenity would be precluded.
Special review gives one the opportunity to present a good
design. The special review tool provides the opportunity to
enhance the appearance of some of the lodges. The 35% open space
requirement will be maintained. A nice design could maintain the
open space feeling. To get the money to upgrade a lodge, the
lodge has to build additional units. If an applicant has to
choose between the pool or the extra units he will choose the
extra units. The special review tool provides for both the pool
and the extra units. Kaufman is pleased with Richman' s solution.
The solution i5 ueneficial to the applicant and the city.
Pardee favored the special review. The code should list gen,:ral
criteria under which the review will be judged. Fences can be
built to allow people to see through them and to obstruct people.
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Co�inaion October 16, 1984
If a fence were six feet tall and a solid mass, then he would not
consider the enclosed area as open space. Richman responded to
the request for more specific guidelines. He quoted from the
Municipal Code, Section 24-3 .7 (d) (8) : "the planning commission
shall determine that such use not be in derogation of the purposes
of the open space requirements of this section. . . " He argued
against any more specificity in the code. Let the Commission
make the determinations of the uses in derogation of open space.
Kaufman explained the intent of open space which Dunaway referred
to. Open space has to be continuous. It cannot be obstructed by
a structure; a structure is defined as six feet or higher. A
fence under six feet is not considered a structure nor an obstruc-
tion to open space.
Motion:
Roger Hunt moved to sponsor a code amendment to be brought to the
Commission by the planning office along the lines discussed in
the meeting. The motion is seconded by Jasmine Tygre. All in
favor; motion carried.
Harvey asked if the Commission feels there is an inconsistency
between fences and open space in the code. Richman said if the
fence were six feet or higher then the fence would be interpreted
as a structure and therefore the enclosed area would not be
considered open space.
MEN BUSINESS
ASPEN ART MUSEUM STREAM MARGIN REVIEW
Colette Penne, planning office, reminded the Commission that the
city has to put itself through the same review as the public.
The Art Museum was severely challenged last year during the
spring runoff. Chuck Roth from the engineering department will
make a detailed presentation of the proposal . The proposal
involves some widening of the channel, some levy work, etc. The
proposal is the first phase of a flood control program for the
area. She outlined the six review criteria for stream margin
review in the memo dated October 16 , 1984, from the planning office.
Lee Pardee suggested that he step down from the case. He owns the
property immediately adjoining the area the city wants to do
work . Roth said the work which might affect Pardee is in phase
two.
Penne explained during the Mill Street Bridge review the county
has been requested that it show it owned the property. The county
currently is asking whether any of the proposed work is being
done on county property. The question has been referred to Paul
Taddune, the city attorney.
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Co=ission October 16, 1984
Roth made his presentation. He referred to a map of the area in
question. The first suggestion after the flooding of the Art
Museum was to stabilize the bank in front of the museum with the
concrete. Part of the proposed work is to clean up that man made
fill in the channel. It has also been suggested to stabilize
the bank with topsoil, sod, and trees to protect the museum from
future flood damage. This requires a 404 permit from the Army
Corps. of Engineers. It takes sixty days to acquire the permit.
The engineering department also discussed widening the river .
There may be beneficial effects as far upstream as Oklahoma
Flats. As the river is widened more water is allowed to flow
down the river in less time. Much of the material in the snow dump
area has been placed there in the last twenty years. There used
to be four islands in that area. The engineering department' s
goal is not to recreate the same riparian environment which
existed in the past. He discovered that a 404 permit is not
required to take material from the river, only to add material to
the river. The city' s shop and streets departments are anticipating
to do the work. It is not an unlimited budget item.
Roth demonstrated on the map the tip of the river bank that is
being proposed to be cut off from the channel. The tip is near
the front of the museum (near the bend in the river) . The
channel there is very narrow. The depth of the new channel will
be the same or a little deeper than the depth of the current
channel. An island will be retained. Roth presented a cross
section of the area. when the flood waters come next year the
work the city does now will be altered. A dike or levy will be
retained up the river. The city will not actually be working in
the river but next to the river. Harvey asked how will the
island be made. Roth graphically demonstrated how a cut will be
made in the channel. Pardee asked about the levy. Roth explained
the city will scrape dirt four feet from the river, it will
parallel the south side of the river. Harvey asked if this work
will result in a man made irrigation ditch running parallel to
the river. Roth explained next spring the area will be blasted.
There will be fifteen times more water rushing down the river
next spring than there is now. Harvey asked if the result will
be a divider of dirt and another channel. Roth said for now that
is correct. Next spring the dirt divider will probably be
obliterated by the runoff. After the next flood there will be
sand and rocks deposited on the left side of the bank where the
river curves to the left in front of the museum. Presently there
is a bar on the inside of the curve.
Peyton asked for the location of the island on the map. Roth
sited the island on the map. Harvey asked if there used to
be islands. Roth said yes. The goal of phase one is to protect
the Art Museum from damage from future floods, not to restore the
original riparian setting. The city would like to start as soon
as possible on this work. The city has not figured out where it
is going to relocate the dirt.
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission October 16._ 1 984
Pardee asked for a description of phase two. Roth reported he
received the application for phase two today from the Army Corp. of
Engineers. Phase two is the building of a gabion wall, 160
feet in length. The wall will start at the river bottom. (The
wall is located on the outside part of the left bearing curve
near the Art Museum. ) It will be stacked back toward the bank. Dirt
will be used as a filler with sod on top of the dirt. Pardee
asked if the 160 feet will interfere with any one else' s property.
Harvey agreed some action has to be taken to protect the museum.
A drought is not foreseeable. Fallin said there is no statement
addressing environmental impacts. What are the impacts in
widening the channel? Roth assured the Commission that the state
will review the proposal in terms of water quality. He addressed
the issue of environmental impacts. The city is attempting to
return the river to its earlier environment. Harvey said the
intent of stream margin review is to prevent the removal of
vegetation since vegetation removal creates erosion. The potential
for erosion existed last spring. That potential will continue to
be there unless something is done to stabilize the river
bank . Harvey ' s concern is that property on the south side of
the river be for the enjoyment of people of Aspen. He wants the
river to be as natural in appearance as possible. He does not
favor an irrigation ditch that is equivalent to a runoff channel
next to the river. Roth cited the case of the river in Basalt,
natural settings are not always pretty.
Gideon Kaufman understood that most problems with the river were
created by filling in Goat Island. Is the proposal trying to
undo the impacts resulting from the Goat Island fill-in? Harvey
answered yes. The intent is to mitigate the impacts but not to
restore the original river landscape. The dog leg in the river
requires the city to take these measures. Kaufman asked if this
action will have any negative impacts on homes that subsequently
were built downstream after the Goat Island fill-in. There are
always impacts when the river is filled. The city ' s action
to undo something in the river will have impacts also. He wants
to know if the solution that mitigates the impacts on the Art
Museum will have adverse effects in the future on homes downstream.
Penne remarked the solution is a localized diversion. The flow
should not be affected downstream. Harvey said any time the
river is tampered with there can be effects upstream or downstream.
The goal appears to be to keep the pressure off the one point on
the bank near the museum. Hunt said when the river is widened
the volume capability is increased and the flow speed is reduced. In
the immediate area of widening the impact is potentially more
speed downstream at the next restriction. Widening the channel
near the museum will affect the area at the next restriction.
The question is where is the next restriction, near the Andrews-
McFarland building. The river also erodes the bank it is running
into, the outside bank. What are the potential problems at that
12
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission October 16. 1984
point in the river? Harvey asked about phase two? Hunt interpreted
phase two as providing a protected wall , it is an erosion wall . will
it be necessary to take the same precautionary measures at the
curve near the Andrews-McFarland building as at the curve near
the museum? There is a need for a maintenance program on those
two turns; the inside of the turn will always be filling up and
the outside of the turn will always be eroding. One reason why
the Andrews-McFarland has not had problems is the restriction
upstream. Roth noted that the new channel flows more northerly
than the old channel. There is less of a bend at the Andrews-
McFarland building area following the southerly route of the old
channel . The discussion evolved around the route of the old
channel.
Hunt recommended conditioning the approval with the request for
the effects downstream by widening the channel at the museum.
Perhaps answers on the effects upon the next restriction should
be provided during phase one. Pardee returned to his position on
the Commission, the city' s actions do not affect his property.
Pardee noted the Commission has a real responsibility to the next
turn downstream. The present solution is opening up a bottleneck
near the museum. The river will flow faster and greater at the
next bottleneck downstream. The museum needs protection from the
next flooding. But what are the consequences of this short term
solution downstream?
Roth explained phase one will protect the museum. Phase two will
clean up what the city did there last year. Harvey asked if the
work on the river could be done next April or May. Roth said
yes. Harvey directed Roth to answer the questions about the
impacts downstream. Those answers are critical before the
Commission takes action. Roth said he would refer to the Army
Corps. of Engineers or the U. S.G.S. or an hydrogeologist.
Harvey recommended tabling this issue until Roth responds to the
Commission ' s concern on the downstream effects at the next
juncture. Penne said she would inform the county that the
Commission has deferred to the county the resolution of the
ownership issue.
Motion:
Pat Fallin moved to table stream margin review of the Aspen Art
Museum until the engineering department has addressed the concerns;
seconded by Roger Hunt. All in favor; motion carried.
RESOLUTION #84-12
ASPEN MOUNTAIN LODGE GNP ALLOCATION
Notion:
Pat Fallin moved to adopt resolution #84-12; seconded by Roger Hunt.
13
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning_Commission October 16, 1984
Discussion. Penne reported that Vann pointed out today that
there is an expiration date, June 11 1985 , on the lodge quota
allocation. If the designated lodge units were not to be built
in that year then other competitors would be able to come in on
October 1st with an application. Vann did request that in the
first "now, therefore, be it resolved" that there be an addition
after the first sentence : "the above allocation shall expire
pursuant to Section 24-11 . 7 (a) of the Municipal Code, in the
event plans, specifications, and fees sufficient for the issuance
of a building permit for the one hundred and seventy-two (172)
lodge units are not submitted on or before June 1 , 1985. " Vann
did express to Penne that it was important not to have this
allocation extend for a longer period of time than it should.
Pat Fallin moved to amend her motion to include the following
language to the first "now, therefore, be it resolved" after the
first sentence:
"the above allocation shall expire pursuant to Section 24-
11.7 (a) of the Municipal Code, in the event plans, specifi-
cations, and fees sufficient for the issuance of a building
permit for the one hundred and seventy-two (172) lodge units
are not submitted on or before June 1, 1985 . "
Seconded by Welton Anderson. All in favor ; motion carried.
Hunt requested that the planning office inspect very closely the
access to the service spaces in this project. The current design
presents totally insufficient space to move a semi-trailer in the
service area. Make sure engineering reviews very closely the
circulation patterns for moving semi-trailers. The present design
will not work.
Harvey adjourned the meeting at 6: 20 p.m.
AR✓dRrA /*r77
Barbara Norris, Deputy City Clerk
14