HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.apz.19841106 RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting_ Planning and Zoning commission November 6. 1984
Chairman Perry Harvey called the meeting to order at 5:05 p.m. with
commissioners Jasmine Tygre, Pat Fallin, Lee Pardee (arrived at
5 : 10 p.m. ) , David White, Roger Hunt, and Mari Peyton present.
COMMISSIONERS' COMMENTS
Hunt raised the issue of the Quillen lawsuit against the city.
During Hunt' s interview today Council expressed it did not know
what to do about the lawsuit. The Council reported that Paul
Taddune, city attorney, has tenatively advised the city to appeal .
Hunt talked with Taddune earlier this week . Taddune was very
emphatic about the appeal. Hunt suggested the Commission give
the Council some encouragement through a resolution that recommends
Council proceeds with the appeal .
Harvey directed Alan Richman, planning office, to draft a resolution
addressing this issue.
Motion:
Roger Hunt moved that the planning office write a resolution
to be signed by the chairman along the lines indicated; seconded
by Jasmine Tygre. All in favor ; motion carried.
Hunt reminded the Commission that a meeting is scheduled for
Wednesday, November 7th, at 7 : 00 p.m. , in the council chambers
with the Commission and Council . Pardee said the discussion will
be the planning office. Harvey understood the discussion will. be
goals. White noted that Council wants to discuss the planning
office Wednesday night in anticipation of a scheduled meeting
with Council and BOCC on Thursday night involving the planning
office . Richman believed the Wednesday discussion will evolve
around planning office restructuring.
Richman mentioned that two commissioners requested copies of the
work program for the council members. Council will argue that
the Commission and planning office have not accomplished anything.
Richman argued it would not be worthwhile to make copies of the
work program. Many pages in the work program do not relate
to the Commission. Instead, he suggested compiling a list of
significant work accomplishments by the Commission. He would
distribute that list to everyone or to Harvey. The work program
deals with everything from the county to the administrative
aspects and would not convince Council of the Commission ' s
accomplishments. The planning office has not been informed about
the content of the meeting. Nor has the planning office been
asked to make a presentation at the meeting.
White mentioned the meeting is a public work session. Blomquist
has written an essay titled "The Future of Aspen City Planning. "
He presented his copy to others. The Commission requested copies
of this essay by Wednesday. White also noted there is a memorandum
from Hal Schilling to the Mayor and Council recommending three
solutions on the planning office r-?ctructuring. Vlhite reminded
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Rejular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission ._ November 6. 1984
the Commission about a meeting scheduled Thursday at 7: 00 p. m. be-
tween Council and BOCC. (Lee Pardee arrives in the chambers. )
Harvey requested copies of Schilling ' s memo for the commis-
sioners by tomorrow.
Richman encouraged Hunt to postpone his departure and to be
present at the Wednesday meeting. Harvey wished to have as many
commissioners present as possible.
Hunt raised the issue of splitting the planning and the admini-
strative rezoning functions. He was asked for his opinion
on this issue during his interview with Council today. Richman
interjected that subject will be discussed at the Wednesday night
meeting.
Peyton questioned the trailer sitting next to the old Grainery
establishment. Colette Penne , planning office, explained the
trailer has been there forever . An old eccentric from Grand
Junction owned the lot. He was killed last year. Harvey inter-
jected the last time the city asked the trailer to be moved the
owner threatened to fill the trailer with concrete. Richman
noted since the owner ' s death the lot has been cleaned up for the
first time in many years. Peyton asked if the Commission can
initiate a clean up of the lot. Is the trailer an allowed use on
the lot? Hunt suggested the community opt to create an ordinance
for the upkeep of the property. Fallin noted the lot is for
sale. Peyton asked if the reason for the allowance of the
trailer is that the trailer has always been there. Richman said
since the owner' s death proposals for the lot are forth coming.
MINUTES
Ogtober 16. 1984:. Harvey made the following corrections:
1. On page one , the final paragraph, the third line, delete
"he" from the phrase "reconsider he its action. "
2. One page two, the last line, change "preset" to "present. "
Motion: Jasmine Tygre moved to approve the minutes of October
16 , 1984 , subject to the two minor corrections; seconded by Mari
Peyton. All in favor ; motion carried.
OLD BUSINESS
ASPEN ART MUSEUM STREAM MARGIN REVIEW
Barry Edwards, city attorney, asked if this is a continuation of
a public hearing. Penne replied there is no public hearing . Edwards
advised the Commission to open up the public hearings , for
example the Nuggget scoring, and then to continue action until
another meeting . It is election day. Harvey said the next
agenda already includes the Aspen Mountain Lodge preliminary plat
public hearing. If he were to back two more items on that agenda
the agenda would be too lengthy. He assumed these two items were
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission November 6. 194
properly published. Edwards was concerned that someone would
come forward and argue he was not present because it was election
day. No other business is being handled today. Harvey understood
city administrations are open in the state today. Harvey decided
to go forward with today' s agenda as planned in light of the
upcoming agenda.
Penne apprised the Commission of the new information on this
case. There is a letter included in the commissioners' packet
dated October 23 , 1984 , from Chuck Roth, engineering department.
She read portions of the letter :
"This letter is written in response to your concern regarding
the effects of our proposed channel widening at the Aspen
Art Museum on the downstream neighbor , the Andrews McFarlin
Condominiums. . . "
Remember the Commission was concerned about the next constriction
in the river and how that constriction would be affected. The
engineering department did not originally provide conclusions. Engi-
neering voluntarily delayed action on stream margin review until
this issue was resolved.
She continued with the letter :
"The Engineering Department performed calculations which
showed that the river flow would return to its natural state
in a distance of from 150 feet to 250 feet downstream from
the end of our work. . . (the condominiums are 400 feet down-
stream) . "
Roth also presented to Penne, yesterday, a third amendment to the
City of Aspen application for permission to widen the channel of
the Roaring Fork River across from the Aspen Art Museum. She read
into the record a letter, dated November 5 , 1984 , from Chuck
Roth:
"This letter constitutes the third amendment to the City of
Aspen application of September 26, 1984, for permission to
widen the channel of the Roaring Fork River across from the
Aspen Art Museum.
At the City Council meeting of October 22, 1984 , the Engi-
neering Department was directed to place the excavated
materials on the city-owned Rio Grande property. A portion
of the property to be filled is within 100 feet of the high
water line of the river and therefore is also addressable
under stream margin review criteria. We have also been
directed to relocate the Rio Grande trail to alongside the
river.
We anticipate raising the entire level of the snow dump by
one and a half feet as well as the Rio Grande property up to
the Obermeyer and Welding Company buildings. Since our goal
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission November 6. 1984
is to widen the river, we are not of course going to be
placing any of the excavated materials where it will affect
the river ! But we do need permission for the portion of the
fill that we will be creating within one hundred feet of the
high water line.
We request that you approve this new portion of the project.
Thank you for your time and consideration. "
The application is the same as last time except for the city' s
request to deposit the fill on the Rio Grande property. Harvey said
it appears the city wants to fill that portion of the property
which is the snow dump. Is that correct? Penne said the fill
will be deposited up to the Obermeyer building.
Harvey asked for some explanation of the proposal. Chuck Roth,
engineering department, said engineering at the suggestion of the
streets department requested permission to deposit the excavated
material on the Marolt property. It may not have been the best
solution but it was the only apparent solution. City Council
rejected that idea and requested the fill be deposited on the Rio
Grande property. The intent is to create a berm to camouflage
the impound lot from the soccer field and from Mill Street. The
berm will provide some aesthetic improvements. The dirt will
be distributed around the existing area. The original Council
request included moving the impound lot to the southwest end of
the Welding Company building . There is insufficient space.
It is also not necessary to move the impound lot to distribute
the dirt on the existing available property. There may be a few
hills here and there.
Pardee said a function of the stream margin review is a presen-
tation of a rather detailed plan of the proposal. The plan for hills
here and there is too arbitrary. The original application
indicated the dirt would be moved, followed by a clean-up. This
current proposal appears to be an easy way of spreading the dirt
and exacerbating an already existing eyesore. Everyone is in a
hurry to widen the stream during favorable weather. But the
answer is not to aggravate an already unacceptable situation.
He wants a better answer on the desposition of the fill.
White remarked that it is unfair to quickly process this action
for the city but not for a private citizen who wants to save
his property. The individual upstream from the art museum had a
difficult time getting any action approved. Penne interrupted.
That statement is not particularly accurate. The individual that
White is alluding to did not submit an application. The private
citizen will be subjected to the same review schedule that the
city is subjected to. White argued a person who wants to save
his property does not have the same rights as the city. The
Commission disagreed with this statement. Harvey explained the
private citizen can do whatever he wants but the individual may
not receive a stream margin review for any work implemented on
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission November 6. 1984
the river prior to the stream margin review. The city is here
trying to redo the emergency steps taken last year to save the
art museum. The city is trying to rectify their work before the
next run-off. The city wants to make corrections and the city
has submitted an application for those corrections . Harvey
argued there is nothing substantivally wrong with the city' s
application, except the amendment presented today.
Harvey understood- that the city could deposit the fill on city
property, but could not deposit the fill within one hundred feet
of the high water mark . The city ' s stream margin review only
addresses action taken within one hundred feet of the high water
line . The city could disperse the dirt around the Rio Grande
parking lot since that action would not be within one hundred
feet. He quoted from the letter dated November 5th: "a portion
of the property to be filled is within one hundred feet of the
high water line of the river . " The Commission in essence is
reviewing under stream margin review whether or not the city
should be allowed to deposit the dirt within one hundred feet of
the high water line. Even if the Commission were to deny the
city the ability to disperse the fill within one hundred feet,
the city would still have the ability to disperse the dirt
on the Rio Grande property. However, Harvey recommended language
in the motion that opposed the dispersal of the dirt on the Rio
Grande property.
Bill Dunaway, publisher for the Aspen Times, reminded the Commission
that the engineering department wanted to move the soil to Marolt.
Marolt was purchased for open space . The argument against
transporting excess dirt to Marolt evolves around the question
why destroy Marolt when the Rio Grande is already ruined; why not
preserve Marolt and continue to add to the already existing
damage , the impound lot and the snow dump, at the Rio Grande
property. The city has announced this is the last year for
snow dumping. Harvey recalled the city announced that last year
and no action was taken. The city also made the same announcement
with regards to the impound lot. The Commission has evaluated
one year extensions, two or three years consecutively. Since then
the city has not bothered to come back to the Commission .
Dunaway said there is no better location.
Harvey argued that nothing has been planned for that Rio Grande
property. It appears the property will become a dumping ground
for impounded cars and for snow and now for the fill excavated
from the river. He does not think the Commission should give the
city a nine month right to dump the fill there, even though, the
city can put the fill where it sees fit as long as the fill is
not deposited within one hundred feet of the river. The Commission
can chose to deny the city the ability to deposit the fill within
one hundred feet of the river. Harvey is upset. That property
continues to deteriorate through man-made acts. Dunaway asked if
it is not preferable to continue to destroy a property which is
already deteriorating rather than destroy a property which is
still pristine. Harvey did not know. A ten foot square pile of
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission November 6, 1984
dirt on the Marolt property may be acceptable. Not every inch of
the Marolt property is used. Marolt is simply open space. The
number of people who will see that pile of dirt at Marolt may be
only one percent of the number of people who will view the dirt
at the Rio Grande. The Commission perhaps should not get involved
with this issue and should address the issues under stream margin
review.
Harvey asked if the Commission ' s concern about the impacts
downstream from widening the channel near the museum has been
answered. The general consensus was yes.
Harvey requested more details on what is to be done with the fill
on the Rio Grande . Roth replied berming . Hunt asked where
will the berms be. What is the improvement plan for the property?
Roth explained the intent of the berms is to obstruct the visibility
of the impound lot from Mill Street and the playing field. The
road to the snow dump will be moved to the west to create room for
the berms. Harvey said the plan appears to further abscond the
impound lot.
Penne apprised the Commission that the city is investigating
alternatives for both the impound lot and the snow. One alter-
native for the snow dump is a snow melting machine. There is also
dialogue about storing the trolleys at the impound lot. This
protects the trolleys from being vandalized. She has accompanied
the police department on a site search for the impound lot .
There is a lot which may be viable. The issues are not dead.
Penne continued. Based on the information provided by Roth there
will be a one to one and a half foot elevation increase. Perhaps
the Commission is overreacting. Remember the Aspen One pro-
perty. Roth said the amount of fill to be moved is equivalent to
one thousand dumptruck loads. That is ten days of work . Hunt
remarked that is not an insignificant amount. Harvey asked if
there is a site plan which indicates the size and height of the
berms given the amount of dirt to be moved. Is there a possibility
of a ninety foot high berm along the west side of the impound
lot? Penne asked how Roth arrived at the one to one and a half
foot figure. Roth measured the area from the Obermeyer building
to the river and assumed the uniform distribution of the dirt.
Harvey asked if topsoil will be involved. Roth replied there will
be miscellaneous topsoil, mason concrete, etc. Hunt asked why trees
cannot be used for screening instead of dirt. Harvey asked if the
city plans next spring to bring in eight inches of topsoil , to
cover the berm, and to landscape the berm. Will this berm be
an unusable rock pile? Will the fill be crushed? Roth did not
know Council' s plans. He anticipated Council will seed the berm.
Penne advised the Commission to allow the city to do the work but
not allow the city to dump the dirt on the Rio Grande until the
Commission sees more detailed plans. Remember the Commission
tabled this issue at the last meeting for more information. The
Commission has received that information. The information
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission November 6. 1984
indicates that widening the river will not adversely affect the
next constriction. Harvey reasoned the city needs the trucks and
a location for the dirt excavated from the river. Roth said that
is engineering' s problem. The city may have to haul the dirt to
the dumps. It is not easy to sell dirt in the area.
Penne emphasized again that under the terms of stream margin
review the city has satisfied the Commission. The Commission is
not satisfied with the solution for the fill. If this were a
private application the applicant would not receive approval.
Treat the city the same way.
Harvey suggested the motion recommends the approval of stream
margin review for the city to complete phase one, with amendments
one and two as reflected in the October 23rd letter. The third
amendment reflected in the November 5th letter requests placement
of the excavated material on the Rio Grande. Deny the ability to
deposit within one hundred feet of the high water line. Include
some statement that the Commission strongly recommends that the
city not be allowed to deposit the dirt on the Rio Grande property
at all .
Pardee said the code allows the Commission to be concerned
with the location of the soil excavated from the river. Edwards
responded that the Commission is not licensed to review the
landscape plan for a parcel. Address what the modification to
the stream bank does to the river flow. Do not address the
landscape plans for the adjoining properties. Harvey quoted item
fcncr.. from the stream margin review criteria: "vegetation shall
. -iovc J or any slope grade changes made: that may produce
erasion ..):_ the stre i . :. " Pardee quo.- ' ��m three: if
attempts should be made to implement the recommendations of the
"Roaring Fork Greenway Plan" prepared by the Roaring Fork Greenway
Committee. " This plan concerns itself with the park areas
purchased by sixth and seventh penny money. The Rio Grande
fits this category. Harvey argued any fill within the greenway
does not constitute an improvement or implementation of any
greenway plan.
White suggested an addition to the proposed motion: require a
plan from the city. Harvey suggested the motion say that the
city not locate the excavated material within one hundred feet of
the river and that the Commission not recommend any portion of
the Rio Grande property as a dumping site since that is a con-
tradiction to the "Roaring Fork Greenway Plan. " Penne recom-
mended the following language :
"The Planning and Zoning Commission approves stream margin
review for completion of phase one of the work by the city
on the Roaring Fork River at the Aspen Art Museum as proposed.
The Commission denies the ability to deposit the fill within
one hundred (100) feet of the high water line. The Commission
also encourages an alternative site be investigated for
depositing fill or a detailed plan be presented for its
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission November 6. 1984
placement on the Rio Grande property. "
Harvey agreed with the language. Pardee encouraged landscaping
of the visually abused area on the Rio Grande. A landscaping
plan requires a commitment to locate topsoil on the berm, to
grade the berm, etc. Dumping the soil is insufficient. State in
the motion the area is an eyesore. State the land was purchased
with sixth and seventh penny money. State the Commission questions
the deposition on a park-recreation type use without a detailed
landscaping plan.
Hunt noted that improvements to a specially planned area (SPA) ,
like the Rio Grande property, will require the presentation of plans
before the Commission.
Peyton said if there is already no topsoil on the property and if
the the property is already raw and ugly, then locating one to
one and a half feet of fill on the property will not exacerbate
the problem. She referred to the snow dump. Pardee noted that
the snow dump area is flat, it is walkable. The city appears to
want to dump a thousand truck loads of dirt randomly in the
area. Peyton said the Commission is assuming too much. Harvey
said the Commission is only acting on the information provided by
the city. Hunt said the Commission has to assume the worst until
the city provides more information. Harvey agreed the program
would be acceptable if the city were to crush the rock, were to
spread the soil, were to provide a topsoil plan, and were to
provide a landscaping plan. Peyton argued if this program were
implemented then the city should be allowed to deposit the fill
on the property. Pardee encouraged the plan but the Commission
cannot let the city act without a plan. The Commission needs to
see a plan. The Rio Grande property was purchased as a park.
Peyton asked how the property became a snow dump. Pardee replied
that question has been asked for five years.
Penne added language to the end of the proposed motion: "further
landscaping of the site. "
Pardee encouraged the city to treat the Rio Grande as the last
developable park. The city must do a good job and must do something
with the dirt. Penne noted the one problem with Pardee Is suggestion
is that the landscaping proposal hides two uses which may be
temporary uses within the master plan for the entire property.
The Commission should encourage the master plan effort to go
forward rather than view a detailed landscaping site plan.
Al Blomquist, city council member, reported that Council rejected
dumping the fill on the Marolt property, the original proposal . The
Council instead recommended locating the excavated dirt on the
hill ; it is already ugly there. Also Council recommend the hill
because it screens the impound lot. There appears to be enough
dirt to do a decent screening job and to fill some of the city
land used by the private sector. Before Council is a proposal
for $100,000 for landscaping the area next spring. This is in
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting_ Planning and Zoning Commission November 6, 1984
the capital budget discussion. The Council will settle this
issue within the next three weeks . He agreed with the one
hundred foot limitation from the river, it is marvelous. Keep
the denial of the deposition of the dirt within one hundred feet
of the river in the motion. Require the dirt be distributed
properly to create land shapes. But, allow the job to commence
tomorrow. The landscaping will be considered in due time by
Council . The fill will be covered with topsoil next spring.
Harvey said fine. But, the Commission has no information about
this. The Commission wants to enable the city to remove the
material from the river. But there is no indication that the
soil will be properly crushed, properly spread, or properly land-
scaped. In this meeting the Commission cannot project a landscape
plan. The Commission does not want the material dumped within one
hundred feet of the river and does want the city to seek alternative
sites or to provide a detailed plan to the Commission as to what
will happen to that fill on the Rio Grande. The present information
indicates piles of dirt. No topsoil is coming from the river. It
is encouraging there is some plan. But, this is only a budget
discussion item at this time.
Blomquist said this is a commitment. It is the same problem the
Aspen Mountain lodge will face. He wants the city to set an
example. It would be very desirable during this wet cycle to
move the material from the river. One alternative is to spread
the dirt where the snow will be dumped or to spread the dirt up
on the hill and screen the impound lot. Harvey said the hill
will be nothing but rubble rock and river boulders. There is
no indication of planning, no indication of shaping, no indication
of crushing, no indication of covering. The impound lot exists.
That fact cannot be hidden. If the lot were to be hidden by a
pile of boulders and rocks then something should be done with
that pile. There needs to be a program and until there is a
program the Commission will approve only stream margin review for
the reconstruction in the river.
The fill distribution is the city' s problem. But, the distribution
of the fill on city park property contradicts the recommendations
of the "Roaring Fork Greenway Plan. " Under stream margin review
the Commission has an obligation to implement everything under
the recommendations of that plan. Stream margin authorizes the
removal of the dirt from the river and determines no deposition
within one hundred feet of the high water line. Stream margin
review does not preclude the city from dumping outside the one
hundred foot limit. The Commission can only encourage the city
to seek an alternative site for dumping the soil or to encourage
a detailed landscaping plan for the use of the fill .
Fallin encouraged a stronger motion which called for a detailed
plan.
Motion:
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission November 6. 1984
Pat Fallin moved to approve stream margin review for the city to
complete phase one of the work on the Roaring Fork River at the
Aspen Art Museum as proposed. The Commission denies the ability
to deposit the fill within one hundred feet of the high water
line. The Commission encourages that an alternative site be
investigated for depositing fill or a detailed plan be presented
for its placement on the Rio Grande property and further encourages
landscaping of the site. Seconded by Jasmine Tygre.
Discussion. Hunt asked if the Commission is simply encouraging a
detailed plan or requiring a detailed plan. Penne said the
Commission cannot require a detailed plan under stream margin
review. Hunt asked if a construction permit or an excavation
permit is required to move dirt. The point is that the proposal
is to move dirt on property which is designated SPA. If the city
were to dump the dirt on the Rio Grande property then the city
would have to come back before the Commission with a landscape
plan.
Harvey called for a vote: all in favor; motion carried.
Edwards agreed Hunt' s point is well taken. He will investigate
this.
Harvey in response to a query by Dunaway explained that the city
is proposing a stop gap measure for the art museum. The city
wants to prevent flooding that occurred this year from occurring
next year : this is phase one. Penne explained the city will work
on the banks across from the museum in phase two. Phase two is a
program for permanent repair and landscaping of the bank.
PUBLIC HEARING
FINS RESTAURANT CONDITIONAL USE REVIEW
(f/k/a Acguitaine. f/k/a Pisces)
Harvey opened the public hearing.
Penne briefed the Commission on the application. The name is
"Fins. " The restaurant is located at the Fireside Lodge at the
corner of First and Cooper in the L-3 zone. This is a conditional
use review. There was much conversation about locating restaurants
in L-3 lodges when the L-3 zone was established . There was
discussion about allowing the restaurants to serve both guests
and the public. A restaurant did operate in the Fireside for about
twenty years. That restaurant has not been in operation for the
past three years.
If the restaurant were to serve more than the lodge guests then
the Commission should be concerned about traffic and parking
impacts, noise, lighting, elements that might affect some of the
residential neighborhoods located in the L-3 lodge districts.
The restaurant is fully equipped for operation. Based on her site
visit there is substantial available parking. There is very
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission November 6. 1984
little neighborhood impact. There are four parking spaces in the
front of the restaurant. There is a drive through, drop off area.
There are six parking spaces in the rear.
Behind the restaurant there is a large duplex structure. Mostly
multi family units are located in the neighborhood. The entire
block across from the restaurant is vacant. Cars could park
along the block without disturbing anyone. The ice garden is at
the northwest corner. There is also an expanded Victorian, may
be a multi family resident, just south of the ice garden. There
are no parking impacts on the neighborhood. There is no intent
to have any new outside lighting or signage other than what
currently exists. The noise level will have to be maintained at a
reasonable level for the guests of the lodge. The only proposed
music is a taped in sound system which already exists. There
will not be live music. The operating hours will be apres ski
from 3 : 30 p.m. to 6: 00 p.m. ; dinner from 6: 00 p.m. to 10: 00 p.m. ;
and cocktails from 10: 00 p.m. to 2: 00 a. m. Breakfast will be
served to the lodge guests.
According to the conditional use criteria, whether the use
complies with the requirements of zoning code, whether the use
is consistent with the applicable zoning district, or whether
the use is compatible with the surrounding land uses, the restaurant
use is not a problem. The restaurant should be granted a condi-
tional use permit.
The environmental health office provided comments to planning office
a few days prior to the distribution of the memo. The memo
directed the applicant to provide new bathroom facilities. The
applicant, Rob Cozen, was distressed by this requirement. Cozen
was not aware that he would have to add the new restroom facili-
ties. Penne approached environmental health. Environmental
health informed her that those are state health requirements
for restaurant use. There is no way to deviate from those require-
ments.
Harvey noted the application does not indicate that the restaurant
will serve breakfast. Penne clarified that the restaurant will
not serve breakfast. The kitchen will be used by the lodge to
serve breakfast to the guests. Harvey questioned whether a
restaurant as a conditional use within a lodge operation may serve
guests and the public. This restaurant appears to be designed to
serve the public more than the lodge guests. Penne reiterated the
kitchen will be used by the lodge to serve breakfast and the
restaurant operation will begin at 3: 30 p.m.
Fallin asked how the original restaurant was allowed to operate with
bathroom facilities that did not meet state requirements. white
noted this is new legislation. Penne understood that if this
restaurant had not been closed for three years and had been
continually operating then the restaurant could have operated
with the existing facilities. Because the restaurant has been
closed it is subject to current regulations. The current regula-
l l
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission November 6. 1984
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
tions require the additional facilities as described in the
memo. Cozen asked if the fact that the lodge has never discontinued
food service to its guests would negate the requirement. Harvey
did not know. Planning and environmental health should have
determined whether this was necessary. Penne suggested Cozen
investigate the possibility of a conditional CO to finish the work.
Harvey stated this is not the Commission' s concern.
Edwards noted that the approval of the conditional use does not
involve the environmental health concerns at all. That requirement
will have to be met before the restaurant can operate. This
requirement is outside the purview of the Commission. The motion
to approve the conditional use should not include a statement
about the environmental health requirement. Harvey however
suggested citing in the approval that the applicant has to
fulfill the conditions of the environmental health office prior
to opening. The conditional use is close to the certificate of
occupancy.
Hunt supported the comments on the neighborhood impacts only if
the vacant land is not developed. Just remember in the future
that if that property were to be developed then there might be
impacts. Basically, he has no problem with the location of the
restaurant.
Pardee argued against Harvey ' s suggestion to the motion. The
Commission should just approve a conditional use permit for the
restaurant. The applicant can fight with environmental health.
They can close him down. Do not make it harder on the applicant.
Harvey suggested more language to the motion: "for the operation
of the restaurant at the Fireside Lodge to serve guests and others. "
Motion:
Lee Pardee moved to approve for the application of the Fins
Restaurant a conditional use permit to operate within the confines
of the Fireside Lodge for use by guests and the public at large.
Seconded by Roger Hunt. All in favor ; motion carried.
Harvey closed the public hearing.
PUBLIC HEARING
NUGGET L-3 GNP GENERAL SUBMISSION/SPECIAL REVIEW/SCORING
Harvey opened the public hearing.
Penne explained the applicant is requesting an allotment of
fourteen ( 14) lodge units for the Nugget and special review
approval to increase the floor area ratio from .74: 1 to . 92: 1. The
Commission recently raised the floor area ratio from .68: 1 to
. 74: 1 .
The original proposal for employee housing required a change in
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission November 6, 1984
use exemption and parking exemption. The solution used a unit at
the Cortina which was to be converted to a dormitory. The applicant
has now agreed to deed restrict one of the fourteen units at the
Nugget. The applicant only will compete for thirteen free market
units and provide one employee unit if the parking exemption
is carried over from the Cortina to the Nugget.
There were three units carried over from last year. There
are ten units available in the L-3 in 1984 . The total available
units are thirteen. The applicant concedes to deed restrict one
unit. He will only compete for thirteen units assuming the
parking exemption is granted.
Harvey asked if the Commission were to require a parking space
for the employee unit would that decision affect the ability to
score. Is there a formula for employee housing? Harvey agreed
the Commission commonly exempts parking. But, the reality is
the employee will have a more severe parking problem than any
lodge guest.
Penne explained there were substantial problems with the Cortina.
First, there is no proof that the owner of the Nugget owns the
Cortina. Penne has no proof of that long term status of the
Cortina. She understood that the Cortina would go through a
change in use for a residential use . Since the Cortina is
not condominiumized there is not the ability to take one unit
from the Cortina and sell it for the purpose of employee housing.
These issues are not substantiated or documented in the appli-
cation. The planning office consequently does not agree to the
Cortina solution for the employee housing. The planning office' s
maximum score in the recommended scoring is based on a statement
in the application that if the Cortina solution were not found to
be acceptable for some reason then the applicant would deed
restrict one of the Nugget units.
Gideon Kaufman, counsel for the applicant, explained the reason
for the Cortina solution. There is one unit in the Cortina that
does have a history of more than six month rental. There is
also a kitchen in the unit. The unit can be a very convenient
employee unit and the unit is in close proximity to the Nugget.
The applicant is amenable to a condition that the applicant
not commence construction on the fourteen units until the applicant
has established ownership of that unit. The ability to restrict
the unit has nothing to do with the fact that the Cortina is not
condominiumized. Any lodge in town owned by an individual can
have restrictions. The city made a mistake with Cantrup. The
city failed to get the mortgagees to agree to the deed restriction.
During the bankruptcy proceedings the mortgagees eliminated the
deed restriction. The better alternative may be to deed restrict
the Cortina unit.
The applicant agrees with the planning office ' s concerns. There
would be a substantial amount of money lost to the applicant if
he were to convert one of the fourteen units to an employee
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission November 6. 1984
unit. Since the applicant will not be able to sell that extra
unit the applicant wants to change the access. The proposal is a
less expensive stairway in the back, replacing one parking
space . The applicant is willing to trade the profit f rom one
unit for the stairs and a parking exemption.
Harvey questioned the stairway. Kaufman explained it is very
expensive to comply with certain code requirements for access to
the back of the unit. Because of the economics - and because of
the loss of one unit the applicant prefers a straight stairway at
the rear. The rear stairway will be located at the fourteenth
parking space. The exit will be over the fourteenth parking
space . A reason for locating the employee unit at the Cortina
is the absence of a parking requirement in the office zone. His
client would agree to deed restrict the fourteenth unit if he
were able to receive a parking exemption. That makes economic
sense.
Pardee said the solution is a nonsequitor . He prefers the
original proposal : house the employee at the Cortina and do not
start construction until the applicant proves ownership. Tie
down the mortgagees. There is a parking space for the employee.
The applicant makes more money. Everyone benefits by locating
the employee unit in the Cortina. Penne interjected parking is
not provided at the Cortina. The second disadvantage is that the
Cortina is off site. Remember twenty-one existing parking spaces
at the Nugget on city property will remain. The fourteen parking
spaces are an addition to the twenty-one on site parking spaces.
Harvey commented that an employee would probably be given a
parking space if parking were to become a hassle.
Kaufman said his goal was to resolve the planning office ' s
concerns. He preferred not to argue that legally the applicant
can do what he originally proposed. He favored a resolution of
the concerns. The only problem is the extra parking space and
the cost . The Commission has frequently exempted the parking
requirement for employees. Adhere to that precedent. Harvey
again asked why the stairway cannot be located toward the east?
Kaufman replied there is no room. He is trying to be conciliatory.
It is not fair to his client to lose the extra unit, to come up
with a parking space, and to come up with the extra cost. He is
not asking for anything that has not been asked for routinely
from this board.
Tygre said the original proposal was fourteen free market units.
But there are still fourteen units, one employee unit and thirteen
guest units. Why not leave the original proposal as is? Cost is
not a factor. The applicant will have to buy the Cortina unit.
Harvey argued the applicant can rent the Cortina unit and the
cost can be passed on to the condominium association. Tygre said
if the applicant were to go forward in the scoring with this revised
plan, then the Commission would not be reviewing and scoring the
plan in front of it. The changed stairway would not be scored,
for example. Kaufman reminded the Commission that the applicant
1 A
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission November 6. 1984
is trying to accommodate a goal identified by the city. The
applicant is spending substantial money to upgrade the lodge. The
applicant is trying to come up with a solution that is agreeable
to all . Economics are involved. The applicant has come up
with the best possible solution given the city' s limitations.
The new proposal will not change the GMP scoring. The proposed
changes may only affect the scoring in the parking area. Everything
else remains the same in terms of the vision.
Tygre asked the commissioners if they are concerned that they will
be scoring something that differs from what will be built. Harvey
emphasized the only difference is one parking space. Penne agreed
the only difference is the one parking space and only if the
Commission exempts the parking. Peyton asked where in the
scoring does the Commission take action on the parking exemption.
Harvey said the parking exemption is part of the application.
The motion itself will include the Commission' s position on the
parking exemption.
Harvey asked Kaufman if the floor area is increased with the
stairway. Kaufman answered no. Harvey explained the employee
unit at the Cortina would have required a change in use, GMP
exemption, and a parking exemption. The Nugget solution only
requires a parking exemption. There is no need for a decision on
a change in use.
Penne pointed out that many times with GMP applications there
are subsequent reviews. That is usually a hassle for the applicant,
the planning office, and the Commission. Usually the subsequent
reviews involve elements already reviewed as an inherent part of
the project, for example, FAR increase or a parking exemption.
The applicant has to pay added costs for these reviews, sometimes
those costs are excessive. The county a year ago encouraged
these reviews be tracked simultaneously. That is a better
approach. The Commission tonight is being asked to score the GMP
and concurrently to decide about the FAR increase. If the
Commission were to score this project to meet or exceed threshold,
then the Commission would have agreed that the buildout is
acceptable and is not detrimental. The conclusion would be that
the FAR increase is acceptable. To require the applicant to
return a month from now for the approval of the FAR increase and
for approval of the parking exemption is unnecessary. GMP
scoring, FAR increase , and parking exemption can be tracked
concurrently.
Penne continued a review of the memo. The maximum FAR in the
L-3 zone is 1:1 . On October 2, 1984, the Commission did approve
the special review request to increase the FAR from . 69: 1 to
.74:1. At that time the applicant increased the lobby area and
enclosed the decks with solariums and covered additional access
walkways. The Commission did not find any adverse impacts associated
with the request. The Commission did determine that the original
Nugget Lodge was improved considerably as a result. She did not
anticipate any adverse impacts with the FAR increase , . 74: 1
, r,
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
$e9ular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission November 6. 1984
to . 92: 1. If there were significant impacts then they would show
up in the GMP scoring. The negative scores from the planning office
related to the proportional increase in common space. The
applicant did not show that to be very substantial . She has
spoken with Dave Gibson about this. Gibson will detail tonight
the common spaces. There are three paragraphs in the application
which address the increase in amenities and common areas. The
application was not detailed enough to really evaluate the
amenities in the scoring.
Harvey noted in the previous review there was an increase in the
lobby area. Can the Commission consider that increase in this
scoring? That increase appeared to anticipate this GMP scoring.
Penne answered yes. She just wanted to alert the Commission to
the fact that the amenities and common areas are scored low. She
did not have certain facts to score otherwise.
Penne articulated the positive elements of the design. The bulk is
located toward center of the site, away from Main Street. From
Main Street one will be aware of a two-story facade. Along
Garmisch the top level steps back twenty feet from the parapet
and recesses within a roof structure which slopes away from the
street. Along Bleeker Street there are bay windows and sloping
roofs which both interface with the Victorian which sits back on
Bleeker. The structure at its closest point is thirty-two feet
from Bleeker . There is an alley vacation request. This application
anticipates that the applicant may or may not receive approval. No
improvements have been considered in either alley area.
The applicant has to score 30% in each category. The applicant
has to score 60% of the overall available points. Threshold is 63
points. The planning office' s recommended score is 68 points .
The available quota is thirteen units. There will not be any
borrowing from subsequent years. She recommended that the
Commission concur with the point assignments. The new information
which will be presented tonight will technically clarify previously
submitted material . Planning office further recommends the
Commission approves the special review to increase the floor area
ratio to . 92 : 1 and denies the use of the unit at the Cortina
for the employee unit.
Harvey requested clarification of Jim Adamski ' s memo which claims
that the applicant is only housing 35% of the 100% of employees
generated. Adamski ' s calculation is 1 .08 employees. Penne
explained the applicant will house one employee. The converted
unit is effectively housing two people. - That satisfies the
employee housing generation. Kaufman explained the unit will
be a dorm at 300 to 350 square feet. Three hundred square feet is
required to meet the code. Harvey defined a dormitory as accom-
modating two people, with a bathroom, and with a kitchen facility
downstairs. Kaufman explained the square footage qualifies for two
people. One hundred fifty square feet is required for one
person. The dormitory is one room in excess of three hundred
square feet. That meets two employees. Harvey asked if two
I
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission November 6. 1984
parking exemptions are required.
Penne recommended deed restricting one Nugget unit and recommended
granting the parking solution. A person on site is favored over a
person off site at the Cortina. The Cortina could sell to someone
else, like the Woodstone or the Alpina Haus did. The fact is
there are twenty-one parking spaces existing at the Nugget. The
Applejack is the only lodge which comes close to the same number
of parking spaces ; it provides twenty spaces . Most lodges
provide considerably less parking. Remember the Nugget is
adding fourteen more spaces to the existing twenty-one. The
Nugget is also close to Lift lA and the bus routes. It is
unlikely the parking spaces will ever be full. Kaufman noted that
Garmisch Street is double the width of a normal street. The
chance that the right-of-way will be utilized is nill . The
chance that the existing twenty spaces will be removed on Garmisch
is nill. In reality there will be thirty some parking spaces for
the lodge; a number substantially greater than what most lodges
provide.
Penne referred to page four of the scoring. Under number three,
amenities provided for guests, only one score judges the amenities
to be adequate in terms of quality and spaciousness. The other
two scores indicate that services are deficient in terms of
quality and spaciousness. Dave Gibson will address these scores.
Hunt asked if the Commission agrees it is scoring thirteen units
with the fourteenth unit designated as an on site employee unit.
Harvey answered yes.
Harvey opened the public hearing.
Dave Gibson, architect for the applicant, made a presentation.
He referred to a set of architectural drawings on the wall. The
new fourteen units will be located on the north half of the
property. Three units will be located in the smaller building.
Eleven units will be located on the second story of the existing
one-story building. The third story will be setback twenty feet
from the street. Major existing plantings will remain : large
spruces, honeysuckles, crabapples, some aspens, and some pines.
From the eye level view from the center of the intersection the
top levels are invisible. One reads the cornice line on the
second -story.- -That detail is repeated and carried straight-
across. On Bleeker Street, the small residential vocabulary is
adhered to. Instead of one building there will be two small
buildings that will pick up the rhythm of the individual houses.
The lobby will be increased from 240 square feet to 420 square
feet, a 75% increase . The lounge will be increased from 950
square feet to 1220 square feet, a 28% increase. The lounge will
accommodate conferences . There will be a sliding partition
that will section the space off so that the lobby will function
as a lobby. The space will accommodate slide shows and other
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission November 6. 1984
presentations without disturbing the lobby. In conjunction with
this there will be a screen, a video cassette recorder , slide
projector, available for conference use. There will be stackable
chairs for classroom seating. The owners are working on an
agreement with surrounding lodges to use this room for their
conferences. This facility will be used by the Aspen Lodge and
Christmas Inn. There will be a new larger capacity freezer and a
microwave oven and the ability to cater buffet lunches. In the
past, breakfast was served. There will also be two hot tubs, one
will be built 50% bigger than the present hot tub.
In the engineering report on parking, the trash area was judged
to be a major flaw in the design. Gibson talked with Roth this
evening. Roth somehow scaled the trash area at three feet wide.
That is incorrect. The trash area is five and a half feet wide,
and seven feet long. The dumpster fits into the trash bin end
wise . The screened trash area is usable. Reconsider the trash
and amenities score.
Harvey asked for the location of the employee unit. Kaufman
responded in one of the fourteen units. A unit has not been
specifically selected. Gibson said he will confer with the
owners; the noisiest, busiest unit will be selected. All the
units will be three hundre:J sc uare L`.eet or larger. The choice is
good.
Par.-'...,. --j.ed if Penn-, c.as refer- -,. Lc the size and s?,A .iuusness
of rooms or the lounge. Gibson answered the common space. There
will be a two story lobby. The square footage of the lobby does
not enter into the square footage calculations. Penne explained
the existing lodge is thirty-three units. The proposed lodge is
half as much with the fourteen units. The Commission has to
evaluate the amenities on that proportion.
Hunt is concerned about the access to the alley. Is that adjacent
to the property line? Gibson answered yes. The alley makes an L-
shaped turn. He demonstrated on the site plan the traffic
pattern. That pattern is being formalized. Hunt questioned that
pattern. It appears the alley is not usable for a semi that is
going to Arthur ' s Restaurant, which is located next door. The
reason Arthur' s uses the dock is that the alley is unusable.
There needs to be steering radii on corners for vehicles. How
will vehicles negotiate that corner? Gibson reminded him that
engineering did comment that the turning radius for the trucks is
adequate. Hunt asked if a fenceline exists. Gibson answered
yes . Kaufman commented the applicant has no control over the
fenceline. Gibson noted the applicant has dedicated an alley
22 ' -6" wide. That is two and a half times wider than normal .
Kaufman remarked the alley could be widened more.
Harvey questioned the amenities section in the scoring. Is the same
space being used for a conference area and a dining facility?
Penne prefaced her comments with there were only a few sentences
in the application on this issue. Above the lobby area is a
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission November 6. 1984
common meeting area that includes a small kitchen facility. That
is the only facility available for dining. There is not a dining
facility per se. Harvey said there is no indication that there
will be a dining facility. Penne asked the applicant how many
people will be seated. Harvey did not see anything wrong with
doubling the use of the space for a dining room for the guests and
for a meeting facility. Penne said the planning office is not
going to be difficult. The revamping of the lodge is an overall
positive result.
Fallin asked about the overhead wires. Kaufman explained the
city has an easement to locate the wires underground. The placement
of the wires underground is not the responsibility of the appli-
cant. The city has retained the capability to underground the
utilities. Fallin asked if the city has asked the applicant to
commit to an improvement district. Kaufman explained that is
part of the subdivision agreement. The only way an applicant can
argue himself out of a commitment to an improvement district is
if the applicant is not benefiting from the improvement. The
applicant will be hardpressed to argue that he is not benefitting
from underground the wires.
Peyton questioned the proposed lodge name, "The Hotel Aspen. "
Harvey said that Council determined with the city attorney
that the city had no right to control the naming of the lodge.
Penne assured the Commission that others noticed that the board
made an uproar of the usage of names. People are tired of the
too many similar names in this town. There is nothing the Commission
can do on this particular application.
The Commission scored the application.
Hunt asked if the adjacent property facing Main Street is owned by
the Arthur' s complex up to the property line. Someone answered yes.
Harvey said in the interest of speeding up the process he will
take a vote on the scoring on the assumption the applicant meets
threshold. The Commission will recommend that Council allocate
the thirteen units available. The Commission will approve the
special review to increase the floor area ratio to . 92 : 1. The
Commission will also recommend a parking exemption for the employee
parking space. Kaufman understood the parking exemption to be a
special review item. Penne clarified that the parking exemption
is a two step process. Harvey asked where in the record is the
applicant' s statement about deed restricting one Nugget unit as
an employee unit. Kaufman assured the Commission that the statement
is in the application.
Harvey asked for the commissioners' comments on the three parts
of the motion. Fallin expressed problems with the parking
exemption. Kaufman reiterated the scoring is based on the
allocation of thirteen units and thirteen parking spaces. It
seems unfair to score one way and to vote on the motion another
way. Harvey argued that is the way the applicant proposed the
^
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Neeting Planning and Zoning Commission November 6, 1984
handling of this application. The applicant requested thirteen
units and thirteen spaces. The Commission scored the application
that way. The applicant separately requested an exemption for
the employee parking space. Kaufman reasoned the applicant could
have argued for the Cortina solution. The Commission could have
scored the application based on the Cortina. White argued that
the Commission could have deducted points in the scoring for the
applicant ' s inability to provide parking for the employees .
Fallin remarked if the application were presented with the
Cortina as the solution for the employee housing she might have
scored the application differently. White and Harvey agreed.
Harvey asked if the commissioners agree with the recommendation
that Council allocate the thirteen units. The Commission expressed
general support. Harvey asked if the commissioners agree to
special review to increase the floor area. The Commission
again expressed general support. Harvey asked if the commissioners
agree to recommend the parking exemption. Fallin, Peyton, and
White did not agree with the exemption; Hunt and Pardee agreed with
the exemption. Peyton argued that the argument that the Commission
has always allowed employee parking to be waived in the past is
not a good argument to continue with. Pardee reasoned the appli-
cant ' s other choice, which is to house the employee at the
Cortina, does not require parking and the employee is housed
off site. Peyton asked what the applicant intends to do with the
fourteenth parking space. Penne reminded the Commission that the
applicant is adding thirteen spaces to an already existing twenty-
one spaces. There is ample parking at the Nugget. Tygre agreed with
Pardee. Housing an employee on site is worthwhile. As a practical
matter there probably will not be a serious parking problem on
that site. Harvey concurred.
Notion:
Jasmine Tygre moved to recommend to Council the allocation of
thirteen units for the Nugget Lodge application assuming the
application meets threshold and moved to approve the special
review to increase the floor area ratio to . 92: 1; seconded by Lee
Pardee. All in favor ; motion carried.
Motion:
Jasmine Tygre moved to recommend exemption for the parking
requirement for the on site employee unit to be deed restricted
within commencement of the project; seconded by Roger Hunt. All
in favor; motion carried with Peyton, White, and Fallin opposed.
(Pat Fallin leaves the chambers. )
Harvey closed the public hearing.
Penne read the final scores:
Category Points Required Points Received
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Regular Meeting Planning and Zoning Commission November 6. 1984
One 3 .0 5 .93
Two 11 .7 21 . 86
Three 6 .3 11 .21
Four 10.5 30.00
TOTAL 69.22
Harvey adjourned the meeting at 7: 00 p.m.
Barbara Norri2r, Deputy City Clerk