HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.hpc.20120815 ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION
MINUTES OF AUGUST 15 2012
Chairperson, Ann Mullins called the meeting to order at 5:00 p.m.
Commissioners in attendance: Nora Berko, Willis Pember, Jay Maytin,
Jamie McLeod, Patrick Segal and Sallie Golden. Jane Hills was absent.
Staff present:
Deborah Quinn, Assistant City Attorney
Amy Guthrie, Historic Preservation Officer
Kathy Strickland, Chief Deputy City Clerk
Jamie moved to approve the minutes of August 81h second by Patrick. All in
favor motion carried. Ann abstained because she was absent at the meeting.
435 W. Main — Conceptual Major Development, Special Review for
Parking, Setback Variances — Public Hearing
Public notice — Exhibit I
Deborah Quinn said the public notice requirements are complete except for
the mailing list and it will be supplemented into the records.
Amy said last week HPC discussed architectural changes to the sanctuary
building at the west end of the property and those were approved and they
are moving through the building permit process. The social hall will not be
built but they intend to build a parsonage for the Rabi and his family. This is
a major development two step review and it also has to go to P&Z and
council. The social hall spanned across 3/4 length of the block with
continuous construction. The parsonage has an immediate advantage
because of its detached structure. There is a lot to be said having the open
space created around it. It is a taller building than the social hall was and the
height is being placed next to the historic cabins. Staff has a few issues with
the design guidelines: One is the proximity to the historic cabins and can
there be any more breathing room and can the parsonage building move a
little closer to the sanctuary building. In this immediate block there are
some of the biggest Victorian mansions that are left in town. This building
will have some context to support its size but the Victorian buildings look to
be approximately 35 feet wide and this building has a width of 50 feet. The
building is set back but it seems wider than the historic buildings and staff
has concerns about that. HPC needs to address parking and there are not
regulations; it is case by case. The applicant is proposing one parking space
in a garage. The Rabi and his family will be in a live work situation so we
feel there is no need to provide more than they have requested. They are
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asking for a setback variance to keep the parsonage five feet from the front
lot line. That is closer to the street than most of the houses in the block so
that might not be considered appropriate; however the sanctuary and the
historic cabins are only a foot or two off the front property line so there is a
reason to continue keeping the construction closer to Main Street. As a
point of discussion whether the proposed garage should be integrated with
the house or whether there should be some way to accommodate parking
with a structure on the alley or uncovered parking. Staff is recommending
continuance.
Ann said there are five issues:
Proximity to the cabins
Width of the parsonage
Parking
Setback
Garage
Alan Richman, representing the applicant. We will do this in three pieces;
introduction of Rabi Mintz; Arthur Chabon will address the design issues
and I will conclude specifically focusing on the design guidelines.
Rabi Mintz said for the success of the organization and the services we offer
to the community and for the community itself it will have a big impact to
have the two buildings side by side. It is not just really a home it is part of
the Jewish center that will be next door. It is a great importance to my
growing family and for the success of what we do. My wife and I spent a lot
of time with Arthur designing this and we made every effort to eliminate any
extra space. We made every effort to maximize the space for the community
and our family. The size of the parsonage was dictated by the size of my
family and capacity of events that we want to hold in the parsonage. It is
important for us to move forward in a timely manner and it is important to
do this simultaneously with the construction that will happen next door. We
hope to leave here tonight with a vote in favor of the parsonage and allowing
us to go forward.
Leba Mintz said this is an emotional issue because it is our home. We live
1.2 miles from the center and every Saturday we walk to the center and if
there are storms sometimes my children don't even go to the services due to
inclement weather. It will make a big difference being next door to the
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center. We have made this home as simple as possible. I ask you to not
drag this on and hopefully it can go forward.
Arthur Chabon, architect— Elevations — Exhibit II
Arthur said there are three primary issues: One is the overall length of the
building parallel to Main Street. Proximity of the parsonage on Third Street
blocks the views of the cabins and the issue that the parking should not be
brought so far to the center of the lot.
Site plan: Arthur said there are two site plans A and B. The basic strategy
was to nestle the parsonage in the L that is defined by the cabins on the alley
and cabins on Third Street. As required by the guidelines the main entrance
is off Main Street and you enter on a porch which runs parallel to Third St.
and then you enter the foyer, living room, dining room, kitchen, mud room
and garage.
On the Main Street entrance there is a smaller gable and the south elevation
a pair of gables and at the west a larger gable to relate to the sanctuary itself.
There is a gable over the garage, kitchen and mudroom. The gables are all
centered exactly between the cabins. When looking through the cabins they
create focal points. We deliberately did not copy the slopes of the cabins
leaving a more dynamic dialogue between old and new. The parsonage is
much smaller on the site than other properties that you see.
Arthur went over Victorian houses with different facades dimensions within
the vicinity. Our fagade is 27 feet and the overall is 53 feet but the element
that brings you to 53 feet is 12 feet back.
Cabins:
Arthur said the social hall as approved obscured the three cabins completely.
In moving the parsonage inward option B we lose the diagonal view of the
cabins. The repetition of the cabins and the space and shadows between the
cabins in a way subordinate the parsonage. From the Main Street side they
are preserved and enhanced.
Parking:
Arthur said we have to be ten feet away from the adjacent property and the
guidelines require the parking to be off the alley. The options are extremely
limited and parking has to be accessed between the cabins. We also want to
limit the amount of driveway into the property. There is no better proposal
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for the parking than what we have. We feel our scheme is consistent with
the general scale of Main Street and keeping the parsonage closer to the
cabins further enhances the historic resource.
Alan Richman said the parsonage brings many benefits to the project and it
serves critical functions for the congregation and it provides a home for the
leaders of the congregation and it creates a free standing residential structure
that creates more of an open feel on Main Street as compared to the social
hall that which stretched all across Main Street. The relationship between
the parsonage and the cabins has been addressed by the guidelines. Your
guideline 7.12 says a new structure should step down in scale. In terms of
the location of the parsonage and staff's comment to move it to the west we
think that there are three significant benefits to the location of the parsonage
where it is. It opens up the views from Main Street to the cabins along the
alley. By keeping the parsonage close to the cabins we create a playground
in the middle of the property which is right next to the pre-school and it is
big enough to be usable by the pre-school. If you move it over it cuts into
the open space. It also breaks the mass along Main Street into distinct
building forms because it keeps the parsonage far away enough from the
community center that you actually read them as two separate masses.
In the staff report one of reasons to move it west is guideline 7.5 which reads
respect the historic settlement patterns. It talks about consideration of
building setbacks and entry orientation and open space. We have oriented it
to Main Street and keeping the building close to the cabins you create the
open space in the middle of the site. The question is the setback. The
pattern on our block is not like others. We have a 26 foot primary gable and
a cross gable that is set back 12 feet from the primary fagade and is
subordinate to the primary fagade. By the nature of the cabins being behind
the building the only way we can accommodate the program the
congregation needs is to begin to have the subordinate elements.
Alan said they are clearly proposing to access the garage from the alley. We
can't place the garage on the alley because we have cabins across the alley.
In terms of floor area we are way below. The total build out with the six
cabins and the two buildings is about 17,000 square feet. We are 3,000
square feet below the public and 10,000 square feet below what is allowed
on the property.
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Patrick asked if it was thought of to flip the project so the parking would be
accessed from Third Street. Visually it would be best to see the cabins
coming from the west.
Arthur said 7 years ago we did propose relocating the cabins and HPC
determined that the cabins should not be moved.
Jay inquired about the use of the cabins.
Alan said the three along Main Street are deeded as affordable housing.
The three along the alley are deed restricted for lodging for guests associated
with the community center.
Willis asked about the square footage of the parsonage as compared to the
social hall.
Allen said the parsonage is approximately 700 feet smaller than the social
hall.
Nora said we all worked hard to keep the program low with the social hall
and is there any way to get the parsonage into that program.
Rabi Mintz said we tried that and it could work if we got bigger but then you
would have less of a view of the cabins.
Alan said with rearrangement you could have a one story more spread out
building. We went with the vertical building because that is the pattern you
see on Main Street.
Chair-person, Ann Mullins opened the public comments. There were no
public comments. The public comment portion of the agenda item was
closed. - -
Ann stated the issues:
Proximity of the new building to the cabins.
Width of the new building
Parking
The requested 5 foot setback
Garage entry
Entrance to the new building
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Patrick said in flipping the plan and putting the parsonage on the alley you
would get a view plane of all the cabins and it would benefit the community
and the Rabi. The reason why the cabins are where they are is because of
the massing to the west.
Amy said the proposal by Patrick would have to be a new public notice. The
location and setting of the cabins is an important significance and that is part
of why it was not,brought forward.
Ann and Jay said they would not agree to support moving the cabins.
Jamie said she would have to review the past meetings before making any
decisions.
Willis pointed out that the applicant has not requested the change and it was
important that the cabins remain in their original location.
Sallie said she would consider it if the applicant requests it.
Proximity to the cabins:
Jay said typically we don't nestle things toward the historic structure. Jay
said he supports option B so that there is more breathing room around the
cabins. I have no problem with the overall width. I do have an issue with
the roof over the dining room because it creates more mass. I have no issue
with the parking or setback variance or the garage. I don't support the front
door entry. The chimney creates more mass and a heaviness as it comes to
the ground but that can be discussed at final.
Jamie said she can support Option B. Along Main Street there aren't a lot of
windows and other Victorians have windows that open up to Main Street.
The building also seems a little top heavy with the mass of the roof. How
are you nodding or stepping down to the cabins in the back of the alley? I
also support what Jay said that the front door needs to face Main Street to
give it the presence of the entry. I am also OK with the five foot variance.
Sallie said she likes breaking the two buildings up and having the little
cabins between the spaces. There is more breathing room. The entrance is
fine and the garage and variance are OK also. The building does seem a
little top heavy. I can support Option A.
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Willis said Option A has the best site plan. Site lines enhance the reading of
the resources which is what the site plan is about here. The parking and
garage are not a issue. I am also fine with the entry and the width of the
building has extensively been researched. I am fine with the front door
because it is read from both Main Street and 3rd Street. Where the door is
located is not critical because it is not likely to be read at all. The entry is
clearly marked as a one story element.
Nora said she feels the building is too close to the cabins and doesn't honor
the cabins enough. This is now a house and not a social hall so I cannot
support the setback variance. It has a front door and should also have some
front space. The garage is OK.
Ann said the entrance needs to be restudied and come off Main Street. The
door looks more like a back door rather than a front door (guideline 7.9) I
cannot support the setback. Guideline 7.14 talks about stepping the building
down to the historic resources. The garage and parking are fine. By moving
the residence to the west it reinforces the historic use of the cabins which
was a motor court accessed off Main Street.
Patrick said he can support Option B. Since it is a residence my
recommendation would be to move the chimney around the corner and put
windows on the front and take the overhang off. The front door and
windows should be on Main Street.
Response to comments:
Arthur said the front door is clearly articulated off Main Street. Whether it
is perpendicular or parallel is not significant. That said it is an easy plan
change. The Rabi specifically requested an entrance off the side street. You
can't stop in front of the building on Main Street because there is a bus stop
there. The reality is that you will enter from the alley and side street. We
consciously did not put a lot of glass on Main Street because there are
bedroom there. There are a lot of buildings on Main Street that are 12 to 15
feet apart.
Alan said they will look at the requirement for the playground so that state
standards are met.
Willis said you need to look at the site lines. This is not just a house it is a
parsonage and a synagogue. It is a parsonage that is attached to a particular
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organization. Submitting the sanctuary and parsonage separately makes it
difficult to read wholly and holistically. The reality is that you will enter off
Third Street.
Nora suggested we continue the meeting to a date certain.
MOTION: Patrick made the motion to continue to restudy the setback and
restudy of moving the house west closer to the sanctuary. Restudy the front
Main Street fagade which includes the chimney, door, windows, and fagade
overhang. Motion died for lack of a second.
MOTION: Jay moved to approve resolution #20 for 435 W. Main Option B
with restudy of the roof line over the dining room and that the front door
faces Main Street. Motion second by Ann.
Amended motion: Willis amended the motion to approve Option A, second
by Sallie. Vote on amendment only. Patrick, no; Jamie, no, Jay, no; Ann,
no; Nora, no; Willis, yes; Sallie, yes. Motion failed 5-2.
Vote on entire motion with the conditions in staff memo.
Patrick, yes; Jamie, no; Jay, yes; Ann, yes; Nora, no;Willis, yes; Sallie, no.
Motion carried 4-3
135 E. Cooper Ave. work session — no minutes
Deborah Quinn, assistant city attorney said a work session is not a recorded
public meeting and it is basically getting opinions of members of the board
on a proposal that you place in front of them. There can be no approvals and
the applicant cannot rely on anything that is said by the commission as a
whole or by any individual commissioner. There is nothing that can be
stated up front that you can rely formally on. Certainly you are trying to get
impressions and input and you need to understand that work sessions are not
for making final determinations.
MOTION: Ann moved to adjourn; second by Jay. All in favor, motion
carried.
Kathleen J. Strickland, Chief Deputy Clerk
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