HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.apz.20120918 Regular City Planning & Zoning Meeting— Minutes September 18, 2012
Comments 2
Conflicts of Interest 2
1450 Crystal Lake Rd — GMQS Review 2
South Aspen Street Lodge — PUD Review 4
1
Regular City Planning & Zoning Meeting— Minutes September 18, 2012
LJ Erspamer opened the regular meeting of the Planning and Zoning Commission
in Sister Cities Meeting Room at 4:30. Commissioners present were Ryan
Walterscheid, Bert Myrin, Keith Goode, Cliff Weiss, Jasmine Tygre, Stan Gibbs
and LJ Erspamer. Jim DeFrancia did not attend. Staff in attendance were Debbie
Quinn, Assistant City Attorney; Jessica Garrow and Chris Bendon, City
Community Development; Reed Patterson, Municipal Clerk and Jackie Lothian,
Deputy City Clerk.
Comments
Bert asked if the AVH site visit has been decided for the 30th or the 6th. Jessica
replied that she wasn't sure but Jennifer would be back on Monday. Bert asked
how City Council is following up on the check list. Jessica said that was on the
code amendments from City Council.
Minutes
MOTION.- Bert Myrin moved to approve the minutes from August 21 sr and
September 4`h seconded by Stan Gibbs; all in favor, APPROVED.
Declaration of Conflicts of Interest
Ryan stated that in disclosure that he previously was an employee of Poss who is
presenting both projects but he never worked on the second project. Ryan said on
the first project he helped with the LEAD certification before it was changed.
Ryan said if something comes up that he has knowledge of he can recuse himself.
Debbie Quinn stated that she has reviewed the application and memo for tonight
and spoke to Ryan about it. Keith said that he had been an employee of the club.
Cliff said he was on the COWOP for the club. LJ said he did physical therapy at
the Club.
Public Hearing:
1450 Crvstal Lake Rd — GMOS Review
LJ Erspamer opened the public hearing on 1450 Crystal Lake Rd. LJ asked for
proof of legal notice. Debbie Quinn reviewed both affidavits and they are in order
and received someone questioning the property lines which Jessica reviewed and
found they were correct.
Jessica Garrow introduced herself and this was a request by Sunny Vann and
Associates for a 6 lot below growth management allotments to add 3 new
bedrooms to the Aspen Club timeshare. Jessica stated in 2010 the Aspen Club
received final approval for a PUD, SPA and Timeshare that included 20 timeshare
units and a revamping of Club facilities, new parking and things like that. As the
2
Regular City Planning & Zoning Meeting—Minutes September 18, 2012
applicant has gone forward working towards construction level documents they
have had some internal changes that they are interested in pursuing; part of which
is adding 3 new bedrooms; each bedroom is considered to have 2 pillows. With
the 3 new bedrooms they need 6 lodge pillow allotments. Jessica said that the
request was to change 2 of the previously approved units in the Aspen Club to 3
bedroom units and to add 1 new studio unit that would not be actually used as a
timeshare until a future point in time when it is no longer used as the timeshare
sales office. There is no change in the internal or external space of the building.
APCHA has reviewed the request and the applicant is going to use "credit" from
affordable housing that was part of the original approval that the original approval
over-mitigated for the employees that were generated; they created a credit of 8.4
FTEs that were in addition to what was required. Staff was in favor of the change.
Bert asked about page 5 which is page 2 of the resolution. Jessica responded that
is a new unit one bedroom but they will be using this for the timeshare lodge unit
sales and then it will be converted to a 1 bedroom. Jessica said with this approval
changes from 20 units to 21 units.
U asked on page 13 of the packet and asked if it was part of APCHAs
recommendation. Jessica replied that it was part of APCHAs recommendation and
has not been included in the Resolution because the Ordinance really governs how
the affordable housing units were dealt with in terms of rental and for sale; if they
are not in compliance they transition into for sale units. U said there were some
requirements from Engineering and APCHA. Jessica said many of those
requirements have not been triggered yet because there is no issuance for a
building permit though they are within their vesting period and meeting all the
requirements to date and need to do those going forward.
Sunny Vann stated that he didn't have much to add and the building was
proceeding toward its permits position.
Bert said your application has 107 pages why is that. Sunny replied that he
included the original application and approval so that everything could be found in
one simple place for everything that was done.
U said on the application number 3 those amendments do not increase traffic and
was it a daily study or more; he only found the study date of August 21St. Sunny
answered that they have a condition of approval that we can't increase trip travel
into the club. U asked if there was a method of monitoring that. Sunny replied
that it was incorporated in the TDM and in the Council Conditions of Final
3
Regular City Planning & Zoning Meeting—Minutes September 18, 2012
Approval. U said the proposed amendment does not involve changes that are
inconsistent with the condition or representation of the project's original approval.
U asked if this was a change from the original approval for 20. Sunny replied yes;
this is a threshold for an insubstantial amendment otherwise it gets kicked up to
P&Z for approval so the staff has exercised latitude historically as to whether it is
so far out of the approval that it has to come back to P&Z.
No public comments.
Cliff opposed this project and will not support it.
U said now we are going back to add another unit and U felt it was too big to start
with. Sunny responded that had we built it smaller we wouldn't be here asking for
the change.
MOTION: Bert Myrin moved to approve Resolution 16 approving the Growth
Management Review for the Aspen Club project; seconded by Stan Gibbs. Roll
call vote: Ryan Walterscheid, yes; Keith Goode, yes; Cliff Weiss, no; Bert Myrin,
yes; Jasmine Tygre, yes; Stan Gibbs, yes; LJErspamer, no. APPROVED 5-2.
Public Hearing:
South Aspen Street Lodge — PUD Review
U Erspamer opened the public hearing for South Aspen Street Lodge PUD
Review. Chris Bendon presented the affidavit of notice. Debbie Quinn reviewed
the affidavit of notice for posting and mailing and there was an information
outreach meeting of a sketch plan with all of the requirements for that meeting was
met.
Chris said this property was known as lots 1, 2, and 3 of the South Aspen Street
Subdivision, south of Dean and north of the Shadow Mountain Condominiums. It
has been known as the Lodge at Aspen Mountain property in various reiterations
over the last decade or so. Chris gave a brief history of the property with an
approval granted in 2003 known as the Townhomes approval for 14 free market
units and 17 affordable units and is a vested approval for the property; subsequent
to that there was much discussion about zoning being unfortunate that was the
basis for that approval and there was a neighborhood master plan initiated in 2008
that is also referred to as COWOP I. The neighborhood master plan involved this
property and the property across the street, Lift One Lodge, properties to the east
were Ski Company properties and properties owned by the City of Aspen all
included into a master plan process; that plan was not approved. The various
4
Regular City Planning & Zoning Meeting — Minutes September 18, 2012
different properties owners went their own way; the Lift One Lodge was approved
roughly a year ago. Chris said on this property there was a second COWOP I1 just
for the Lodge at Aspen Mountain in that review there are drawings in the packet
and there will be more on the power point with significant reductions in the scope
of the project. The project was subjected to some significant hardship and not
presented to City Council. The property then changed hands and is now owned by
ASV Aspen Street Owner, LLC and David Parker is the principal of that company
but is not present in tonight's meeting.
Chris said that in July of this year there was a sketch plan review with City Council
and P&Z and the minutes of that meeting are in your packet. Tonight's application
came in requesting all reviews which the applicant and staff have urged one
another to pull back to focus on the fundamental parameters of this application.
Chris said tonight we are going to focus on 3 items: the program, site plan and
massing. The program essentially the uses on the site being residential, lodging
and commercial; the site plan being how those uses lay on the land and massing
which is a combination of heights, floor area and view plans.
Stan asked if affordable housing would be part of the program. Chris replied yes.
Bert asked about the lifts. Chris replied that there was no resolution here; if P&Z
is comfortable to make a recommendation tonight we can deal with that in a
motion. Chris suggested to continue tonight's meeting until next week September
th and October 2nd
25
Bert said this goes on as a recommendation to City Council in these 3 areas and
then comes back to us after City Council. Chris replied right. Bert asked if P&Z
could tweak the 3 areas. Chris answered yes you would expect some fine tuning
within those areas to make sure the project has merit at a fundamental level before
getting to those details and a way to preserve your time and energy. Bert asked
from a process standpoint why not do a conceptual. Chris responded it essentially
is.
Chris stated that they have been trying to develop a lodge since 2003 and the
statements are a mix in the community and we don't see the townhomes as a really
good decision for this property; it was based on zoning that has changed. Chris
said that the townhomes do little for the community and are large and expected to
be dormant most of the year which doesn't fulfill a need for the community.
Chris said the lower portion has 73 keys with about 84,000 square feet and about a
50 foot height at the highest point. The other 2 parcels have a proposal for 35
5
Regular City Planning & Zoning Meeting— Minutes September 18, 2012
whole ownership residential units, most of them have lock offs; there are 31 lock-
offs with these units. The affordable housing has requested a reduction for a
project of this magnitude from 89 FTEs to approximately 43 FTEs with 19 on site
and 24 off site. Chris said they have a wish that the free market piece of the
project to function more like fractional or lodging.
Chris said the upper 2 parcels are similar to the Lift One Lodge with height points
on the natural grade of the land. Chris said they are looking for your initial take on
the project on those 3 the program, site plan and massing.
Cliff asked Chris the total FAR of this proposal. Chris replied above grade they
were 85,000 and the upper 2 parcels 84,000. Mitch Haas replied that they were
fully under the 2012 code with one exception to figure out how it applies to the
Mines Dumps that were demolished like 10 years ago; it was a set requirement that
we just carried forward. Cliff asked what the FTEs were in units. Chris answered
that it depends on the unit layout; for a one bedroom unit mitigates for 1.75 FTEs.
U asked where the data comes from for tracking the success of a lock-off unit.
Chris replied they did a study of fractional as lodging units and had a slightly
higher occupancy. Chris said the Grand Hyatt had quite a bit of utility to the lock-
offs; people requesting just one room. U asked for tracking of fractional. Chris
stated that we do not have good tracking of fractional; there was a study done
about 6 months ago and he will make sure that P&Z gets a copy of that.
Bert asked how the Ski Company underground parking worked. Chris replied
there is long term lease (99 years) on parcel 2 for 30 spaces; it is an ownership
right that the Ski Company has through that lease. Bert asked how to sustain
something without tearing down and starting over again. Chris said projects need
updating from time to time depending upon the quality of the resource and
advancements in technology.
Todd Emmerson is representing Bald Mountain Development and he introduced
Mitch Haas and Andy Wisnoski. Todd said the parcels were at the base of Aspen
Mountain and have spent the better part of a year trying to develop this site; last
fall they presented an application to amend the existing PUD to the City Council
seeking to enhance and update the entitled townhome scheme by improving the
site plan, reducing overall density and by reacting to the then recently approved
project. Todd said in response to our application City Council in no uncertain
terms along with staff voiced strong preference for a lodging component on this
site. In response to that plan the community had to accept trade-offs because the
6
Regular City Planning & Zoning Meeting — Minutes September 18, 2012
development of the hotel alone was not economically feasible in today's market
and they couldn't make it happen. Todd said we typically heard from Council that
they would be flexible with regard to impact costs and fees to building height
limits, parking, scale and affordable housing requirements if we could meet the
object to get a lodging goal on this site. Todd said they are back here at Council's
request to design a project that has at its heart the goal of achieving an economic
viable hotel and hospitality project on this location. Several weeks ago this
Commission, City Council and us, the applicant, met in a sketch plan session to
find an acceptable starting point through our reconsideration of this hotel project
on South Aspen Street as well as to share some of our known economic challenges
facing the development on this-site.
Todd explained they started the sketch plan session by reviewing the final results
of the COWOP II design effort; that was never presented to the City Council it was
approved by a public body made up of this Commission and of the current Council.
Todd said that they agreed to table the townhouse project and move forward with
the planning effort with full support of this commission. Todd said their
presentation was in a rough form and it is important to get your input on design of
the project to the benefit of the community sought by this hotel concept being met
and that the design concepts will receive refinement as we receive input from this
board, city council and the citizens that are going to provide input and our design
consultants. Todd asked the Commission if they felt that the site plan worked in
this neighborhood; did the mass and scale of the hotel component fit within the
general parameters that were set up by COWOP II and does this programming fit
the community's desire for a hotel. Todd said the overall height is close to 50 feet
and only a portion of a single ridge line exceeds 55 feet; the buildings are setback
into Shadow Mountain.
Todd said on the lower site the northern most parcel the project includes a
standalone hotel with 76 guest room keys, a restaurant, a lounge, spa, some
meeting rooms and a parking garage. The upper piece has 2 condominium
buildings which can be branded and served by the hotel. The vast majority of hotel
keys were a hotel and the majority of the condominiums will have lock offs.
Todd said the majority of these buildings stay below that 42 foot line and only
portions of the building with elevator cores or some roof structure to give the
architecture some interest and those masses are pushed back on the site to provide
relief to the street and scale to the street.
Break
7
Regular City Planning & Zoning Meeting—Minutes September 18, 2012
Jasmine asked about the reference to the 42 feet height limit. Todd replied the
yellow line was 42 feet. Jasmine asked why did you choose 42 feet. Mitch replied
it was the code was and now is 30 feet. Jasmine said the current code is 40 feet.
Jasmine asked about the hotel operation that the construction and sale of the free
market units will subsidize the construction of the hotel; when the hotel operator
gets involved he doesn't buy the hotel they just rent it. Todd replied 90% of the
time and that is the case.
Cliff said that you made a decrease from COWOP II to this proposal; he recalled
COWOP II coming in at about 130,000 and change. Todd answered about 197,000
feet is whole. Cliff said so this decrease was incorrect. Cliff asked Andy if you
were using Juan Street for your entrance and he remembered standing in front of
Mary Barbee's property and the turn was narrow and a truck almost ran them over;
what do you have in mind for this Juan Street entrance. Todd stated that the road
was being re-engineered it was not as it was prior. Mitch said the main approach
to the hotel is on Aspen and South Juan. Todd said there is a single entry on Juan.
Mitch said they have tried to leave Dean Street completely alone so the private
parking area isn't infringed upon and say the service should be only valet for their
parking off of Juan Street. Cliff asked where the free market parking was on this
plan. Andy said the lower building of the upper 2 and the entrance comes in the
middle and there are 15 parking spaces for the lower building and 16 for the upper
building. Cliff asked how are you going to limit support vehicles and other
vehicles that come up to the hotel and where are they coming up Juan Street.
Mitch said the Ski Co parking is below that parcel 1 hotel. LJ said the traffic
circulation needs to be re-visited and sees some problems; nobody has talked about
the Juan Street Apartments. LJ said this is an important part of the site plan.
Stan said he also was concerned about the traffic there and at least the COWOP II
design has a traffic circle. Stan said there should be someway reasonable way to
control traffic either with a gate and card entrance so you can at least limit who is
going to be informed to go via Garmisch. Stan asked about the bridge between the
hotel and the middle building; was it just for the hotel. Todd replied that it was
actually for the hotel guests, the pool amenities can be used for the upper 2
buildings and that bridge gives guests from either the condos or hotel. Stan said
the bridges don't look attractive to him and thought transparent glass would have
looked better and would like more detail.
Bert asked about the financials to do with the property.
8
Reiular City Planning &Zoning Meeting = Minutes September 18, 2012
Keith asked when the maximum height was 60 feet. Todd answered that was a
historical context. Mitch said that was approved by the COWOP group but not by
City Council. Todd said they have nothing above 60 feet. Ryan asked if there was
a diagram showing that with all the roof points. Andy replied no they do not have
those details at this point. Todd said there 4 one bedroom units in the center and
the hotel has 6 dormitory style units for hotel operations.
Cliff said in both COWOP I and II there was an issue with Juan Street Affordable
Housing encroaching on your property and it was stated that the Juan Street
Housing would have some sort of a yard and this looks much different. Todd said
there were some retaining walls for daylight to the hotel rooms so they wanted to
preserve the open space. Todd said that you were actually cutting into the grade
and actually under the lid of the entrance to the garage. Mitch said the entrance to
the garage is set off 10 feet from the property line.
LJ said there was more massing above grade than below grade as opposed to your
last application, why was that. Todd replied there was more massing above grade
on the hotel parcel to accommodate the amenity needs and the guest room needs;
all of the guest rooms need to have daylight, the hotel operated insisted the spa and
restaurant have daylight and the lobby. LJ asked if there was a program for the
check in for the condos. Todd said it wasn't a detailed program yet but it was the
intent that the condominium be managed by the hotel.
Bert asked how many square feet was the total building of the hotel, underground
above ground not FAR. Todd replied 100,004 square feet in the hotel and a 40,000
foot parking garage below that includes those 30 parking spaces leased to the Ski
Co.
Public Comments:
1. Mack Bowlens said that he managed the Lift One Condominium and said it
was interesting that you brought up the guest rooms needed daylight; the Lift
One owners want day light too so keep at least the hotel at a height limit of
40 feet.
2. Denis Murray stated that he lived at Trainors Landing and that a 40,000
square foot parking garage into that corner would be better served if you saw
basically that is a residential neighborhood. Denis said he was on COWOP
I and II, all of those things, when you drop that traffic into that garage with
buses and the Timberidge parking was in the 20 foot right of way. And
snow gets stacked high over there as the stop sign and beyond. Denis said
Koch Park has a lot of activity all summer and parking is critical in that
9
Regular City Planning & Zoning Meeting— Minutes September 18, 2012
neighborhood just for the events that have been taking place forever plus
you eliminate access to this structure from Aspen Street because it has a
stoplight at the highway and it is a main thoroughfare.
3. Paul Taddune said that he was here on behave of the Lift One Homeowners
Association and the owners can't be here tonight and are impacted by this
project. Paul said the applicants have been cooperative but on the third
component that you are supposed to look at which is mass and scale. Paul
asked for slide #9 and think about whether it was discussed before and they
are not trying to overwhelm and the height is about the same as COWOP II.
Paul said there will be a hotel 4th floor right in the face of Lift One and you
want to be closer to Lift One. Todd said what you are seeing doesn't front
Lift One it fronts against Timberidge.
LJ closed the public section of the hearing.
Todd responded that if the community wants a hotel on this site that there are
going to be trade-offs. Todd said that they are trying to work with the regulatory
groups and a hotel project is much more exciting to build as a developer than some
townhouses.
Cliff said the trade-offs is what this is going to be about and he was very much for
a hotel. Cliff said you are requesting twice as much FAR; the townhomes were
95,000 square feet and they are going to have 86,000 of free market space plus the
hotel brought this to 170,000. There is half of the affordable housing at your
request most will be moved off site, cuts to the fees that the city could normally
charge, exceeding code heights and an increase in free market. Cliff said there
were 2 out of 3 building that are that private enclave that he is so much against so
the hotel is jammed down to Durant and he is beginning to feel that we were better
off with the townhomes even though he hated them. Cliff wanted the hotel and
now there is more free market than hotel. Cliff said the Juan Street entrance was
not a great layout and the entrance was on Aspen Street.
Jasmine said that Cliff covered at lot of her concerns and one of the reasons she
was asking about the sustainability of the Hotel down the road has to do with the
size of the building and you are giving up a lot of the building. Jasmine said the
basis of this project was if you wanted a hotel you are going to have to give up a
lot of other things and Cliff pointed out very accurately that the things that you are
will to give up are they worth having the hotel here. Jasmine said you can hide the
massing but you can't hide the height; it is not appropriate to have the demand for
10
Regular City Planning & Zoning Meeting — Minutes September 18, 2012
services and reduce the employee housing by half and she thinks that is a
disservice to the community.
Stan said Jasmine just stated what I echoed and had a hard time with the employee
generation is a very difficult thing to offset; a lot of employees will have to be
driving in and out of town and that is what we don't want. Stan asked if it was
possible to put the garage entrance on Aspen Street. Todd replied that he believed
it is, yes it could be put on Aspen Street. Stan said the employee housing and
traffic were the big issues.
Keith echoed the employee housing and he asked about where the delivery trucks
would go. Todd replied that it was all below grade; in the iteration of the design
there is a receiving dock in the parking garage off that Garmisch entrance this
design put the trash truck underground.
Ryan echoed what everyone else said and he said this was new to him but it almost
seems that you could get 2 hotels in there. Ryan asked if there was an opportunity
to add a second level and mid-level for the parking garage. Todd said he is clearly
seeing that he will look at other options to the parking garage entrance. Ryan
asked to see the proposed mass and scale especially in terms of height.
Cliff wanted to discuss a subject for Bert because he brought up the developer; he
said they are going to sell this project to an operator and all hotels renovate every
couple of years because that is what guests want changes. Cliff said the hotel room
size is important and the average Aspen guest size room is small.
MOTION: Stan Gibbs moved to extend to 7:15seconded by Cliff. All in favor.
Bert said he was not on the size, mass and scale; he wanted to support staff and the
free market owned and operated more like a lodge operation; he would like to
know what works like the Aspen Square. Bert would like to know the average
square footage of a room at the Silvertree Hotel; why haven't some of these
worked and why some had not worked. Bert wants to see a hotel that succeeds for
duration. Bert talked about the costs with Cliff.
Bert wanted to know how the Silvertree, Jerome and Limelight work.
LJ asked for a conclusion here: agree on Aspen Street access, the tunnel below
grade, the pool to be moved to the other side, housing mitigation, too tall. Stan
said if the building was lower and get creative and close Juan Street and get lower.
11
Regular City Planning & Zoning Meeting—Minutes September 18, 2012
Todd said the pool could not be moved because of a deed restriction on the
property.
LJ said if there were a back up to Juan Street and put it lower.
MOTION: Stan Gibbs moved to continue the meeting to 7:30 seconded by Cliff
Weiss. The following did not vote in favor of extending the meeting: Jasmine
Tygre, Keith Goode and Bert Myrin.
Todd thanked the commission for listening and nothing said surprised him; it never
occurred to him about vacating Juan Street might be something practical and they
will give it thought. There was no fractional designed into this; they have designed
a residential portion. Todd said that they would take your input and be back.
Chris suggested September 25th for the continuation.
MOTION: Jasmine Tygre moved to continue this hearing on South Aspen Street
to September 25`h, Bert Myrin Seconded. All in favor.
Adjourned at 7:35 pm.
#Ckie Lothian, Deputy City Clerk
12