HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.apz.20121120 Regular City Planning & Zoning Meeting — Minutes November 20 2012
Comments 2
Minutes 2
Conflicts of Interest 2
Continued - AVH Aspen Valley Hospital 2
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Regular City Planning & Zoning Meeting— Minutes November 20 2012
LJ Erspamer opened the regular meeting of the Planning and Zoning Commission
in Sister Cities Meeting Room at 4:30. Commissioners present were Cliff Weiss,
Stan Gibbs, Jasmine Tygre and LJ Erspamer. Commissioner not present were
Keith Goode, Bert Myrin, Jim DeFrancia and Ryan Walterscheid. Staff in
attendance were Debbie Quinn, Assistant City Attorney; Jennifer Phelan, Deputy
City Community Development Director; Jackie Lothian, Deputy City Clerk.
Comments
Cliff Weiss stated that he wanted to make sure his fellow commissioners were
aware of Ordinance 25 which had first reading about 2 weeks ago and it was about
C-1 and CC zoning changes to height and scale. Cliff said he wasn't sure how this
came about and staff came up with this draft. Cliff said he would like to have
other commissioners present at the process between Council and staff. LJ
Erspamer asked if the Council was going to refer to us. Jennifer Phelan said she
didn't know but would find out. LJ said that he was kind of shocked about the
whole process and their thoughts on this and that we haven't been asked. Jasmine
Tygre agreed with U. Cliff said that he met with Bert for about 2 hours so when
we get together next week so we understand it. LJ said he spoke to Bert and said it
would be better to deal with 3 or 4 issues than all of them. Cliff said there were
about 40 of these and they will prioritize.
Debbie Quinn said that she has been working on the procedural resolution for your
consideration dealing with requests for recusal and she will provide a draft at the
next regular meeting.
MOTION: Stan Gibbs moved to approve the minutes from October 161h with a
change to page 9 "extend" seconded by Cliff Weiss seconded. All in favor,
APPROVED.
MOTION: Cliff Weiss moved to approve the minutes from October 301h seconded
by Jasmine Tygre. All in favor, APPROVED.
Disclosure of Conflicts of Interest
LJ Erspamer disclosed that he participated in the sale of the Beaumont Inn.
Continued Public Hearing:
AVH Aspen Valley Hospital
LJ Erspamer opened the continued public hearing. Jennifer Phelan stated this was
a continued public hearing of the Hospital's Master Facility Plan and review of
Phases III and IV; we have multiple meetings for this case and the last meeting was
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Regular City Planning & Zoning Meeting — Minutes November 20 2012
on October 30th. Jennifer said that they discussed the history and overview of
Phases III and IV and tonight they would have continued discussion highlighting
some of the conditions of Conceptual approval and Phase II final approval. The
applicant will discuss mechanical issues, the roof and what they are doing with the
mechanical, floor plan changes and some of the decompression issues that the
brought up quite awhile ago in other reviews, discussing lighting of the site, the
loop service road, landscaping, and a master facilities review. Jennifer said there
was another meeting on December 4th and if we need more meetings we can look
into January; on December 4th we will be talking about sound; the review criteria
for phases III and IV. Jennifer said a draft resolution will be included and
continued discussion.
Jennifer said for the record we had a site visit on November 13th in which planning
members, the city attorney and herself attended to look at the outdoor lighting at
night. Jennifer added Exhibit G which was an email from Jim DeFrancia on
lighting recommendations based on the site visit.
Jennifer said that Phase II was approved in 2010; construction is under way. The
conceptual approval had a number of requirements associated with it and that
approval was granted in 2009; there were elevations of the proposal, there was
some discussion about affordable housing but there were no plans developed at the
time.
Jennifer said there were a number of revisions and considerations that were
requested as part of the conceptual approval. The statement that regards to the
overall building size, use and architecture design the city council felt at the time
that the massing and scale was appropriate for the site and the proposed uses; there
were concerns about the parking garage aesthetics to minimize the whole impact
and the proposed materials and architecture was appropriate for the site. Jennifer
said in her memo she talked about some of the changes of size of the project and
what you will see the approximate square footage is approximately the same as
what was approved conceptually within 5%. Most of that square footage is in the
basement and they will be talking about their plans and how those have changed.
There was discussion about Green Technology in the project; Phase II is going for
LEED certification; there is an emphasis on Transit that was approved in Phase II.
Jennifer said that a lot of the things that got brought up in the conceptual approval
have actually been incorporated in the current construction phase. For example the
Nordic Trail location, neighbors were involved in working with the applicant and
our Parks Department for finding a location for some of the trail drainage and
snow storage was handled during Phase II; the drainage plan was approved by the
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City Engineer and there will be some slight modifications due to some changes in
III and IV but overall the drainage has been approved for the site. The bus stop
and those improvements are occurring during Phase II so there were quite a few
things approved in the previous Phase and that is under construction currently.
The lighting in the Ordinance from Phase 11 said that they would meet our outdoor
lighting standards. Jennifer said she noted in the memo outdoor lighting is the only
part that we regulate; we do not regulate lighting in the building so with regard to
lighting the hospital has actually regulated itself to a higher degree with regard to
lighting than what our code requires. They have the automatic shades that are on
the upper story of the development. Clearly there was some neighborhood concern
with the installed lighting and the applicant is working on remedying some of those
issues and it is ongoing. Landscaping was improved and was going to be field
inspected and additional planting are being proposed for III and IV. Jennifer said
for tonight the commission should delve into lighting in more detail; what are your
concerns about it; what do you think is working and what is not working on the
site. Jennifer said landscaping may be talking about areas that might need more
softening with landscaping would be a good thing to highlight and we will see
what the applicant is proposing. Jennifer said they should talk about where does
some of this new mechanical go for Phases III and IV; what has changed from
conceptual; they are proposing now and to respond to concern they may have heard
concerns from the neighbors and how can that be minimized after we have this
discussion maybe some direction for the applicant for the December 4th hearing.
LJ said that he had a question on outside lighting which is the only thing that we
have control over and but if you have an inside light projecting outside with such
brightness doesn't that change to outside lighting. Jennifer responded no, our code
regulates fixture that are fixed to the outside of a building. Jennifer said part of the
discussion is interior lighting because the applicant has gone beyond what our code
requires because we don't regulate interior lighting and the indoor blinds on the
upper story on the hospital I think will show how they have minimized light
trespass at night outside. LJ asked if we were discussing mass and scale and height
tonight. Jennifer replied we will see where we get with and raise those questions
that you have.
Dave Ressler, CEO, thanked the commissioners and staff for coming out to the
hospital for that meeting. Dave said they would address a number of issues that
were raised at the last meeting and we are looking for you direction to make this
project be allowed to go forward. Dave said they would talk about the grade and
building height as well as the rooftop mechanicals and then get to lighting. Dave
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said they heard the community and have been acting on this for months and it did
not just surface at the last P&Z Meeting.
Dave said when the design of the lighting was constructed and the engineers had
the best of intentions to have this be a very energy efficient lighting and it had
LEED so there was a second object that you can't minimize we have to have a safe
campus, we are a 24/7 operation; we have to be cognizant the we have to have the
public and staff safety and energy efficiency were the good intentions but had
unintentional consequences that we apologize for and we are putting a lot of
energy toward it. Dave said they have to take a whole different approach to the
lighting than it was originally designed; it is a complete rebalancing of trying to
maintain the safety and energy efficiency and taking into account aesthetic
conditions. Dave said that Russ will explain that he has brought in a consultant
with the experience to address this but with the construction new lights go up every
day and we are catching up and will make it right.
Dave said that Jason would discuss how we use the loop road and any impacts it
might have and some landscaping.
Russ Sedmak said his presentation utilizing power point showed specific grades;
the detail plan and the dark lines are identification of section cuts showed the berm
along the Meadowood side, the Ambulance Barn and the floor elevations of the
building and rooftop features. Russ said Section AA (on page 12 of the memo) is
looking due north through the existing berm, the trees are approximately what they
show and the highest one is about 15 feet above the elevation of the existing
parking lot that will become the elevation of the loop road on that side; the loop
road is up against that retaining wall. The ambulance barn is buried about 5 or 6
feet stick up above that grade and there will be landscaping to soften that and a
green roof on top of that ambulance garage and it is lower in elevation than
Meadowood Drive itself. Section BB (on page 12) is looking towards the
northwest through the ambulance barn and is out of the picture before it gets to
Twin Ridge that driveway elevation in front of the garage has to be maintained
because the road needs to be there to access it and they are stepping down the
ambulance ramp by about another 121/2 feet. Russ said the pad for the helicopter is
slightly higher than the loop elevation but it is not a full story above that; the
helipad is above ground which make it a safer condition and low enough to be
below the treetops.
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Russ said the view from Meadowood Drive was minimal for the air handling unit
and they are trying to mitigate for that unit. Section BB was by the entrance and
shows the roof lobby at about 21 feet above the ground.
Russ said the mechanical will be provided as back up and the relate heights to the
roof. This area serves the patient care unit and requires a lot of air exchanges and
filtration; the other floor is the second floor with the PT Department and the Aspen
Orthopedics space and is approximately 11 feet above the roof elevation. The
units are 21/2 feet lower than the other ones and are under the Phase I1 expansion.
The beige units are being replaced and the one unit will go away; the replacement
units will range from 8 feet to 91/2 feet above the roof and the blue boxes here are
the same unit location so they can reuse the same duct work. The only unit you
will see as part of the Phase III project that is above the roof because this one needs
to be on the roof of the medical office space because it would be terribly inefficient
to put that air handling unit in the basement. Russ showed a drawing of the unit
that were in the basement with the scale and one serves the surgery department
directly above this space, one serves the imaging department directly above the
space, and the smaller one serves the emergency department. This is a
considerable improvement from the conceptual design; this allows us to hide this
equipment completely underground and allow us to maintain it better and the
equipment will operate efficiently fora longer period of time. They have added
about 8,000 square feet to the building to contain the service area and mechanical.
Russ said there were 4 problem areas that they were dealing with on lighting with
respect to Phase II. The first on and probably the most server because we haven't
fully figured it out yet is the area in front of Whitcomb Terrace and the north end
of the parking structure, the second one is the loop road that goes all the way
around the back of the building, the third one is yhe top of the parking deck itself
and the fourth one is the surface parking lot. After you came out and did a tour we
have continued to make some further mitigation where we had the neighbors come
out on Thursday and appreciate them coming out and walking around in the cold
with us and we felt with their feedback it was productive. Dave said the first thing
that they were trying to address was the parking garage; it was quite bright with
angles downhill from the hospital. Dave said as a temporary measure they put up
that screening. Russ said they were having consulting associates from Boulder that
are pretty well known for aesthetic lighting and light mitigation as well as technical
solutions. Russ showed the temporary construction cloth and the mesh that will be
installed you can see through and how effective it is for the solution to the
neighbors and they liked the color and effectiveness of that screening.
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Russ said the secondary that they looked at was the loop road with light poles
planned along the service drive in the back of the building and have decided since
it is a service drive that will be used pretty sparingly that we can mitigate by
putting in bollards that have 180 degree lenses. Once that the bollards are installed
we will have the neighbors come back out to see them working to confirm that we
have solved that problem. Russ said the LED lights that they put up and in the top
of the garage they have disconnected the middle light in the bollards so we have
eliminated 33% of the illumination from the lights on the poles even at their
maximum usage and demonstrated to the neighbors because they had a pole on top
of the deck and a light pole in the parking lot that had not been adjusted and
demonstrated that we actually need to do that for the parking lot. Russ said they
didn't think that they could put the lights on the parking lot on motion sensors like
what we did for the top deck because that surface lot will be used more readily at
night than the parking deck and there will be a one way gate at night for people
who have parked there during the day for them to get out but if nobody is up there
for more than 2 minutes the lights go out. Russ said another area of concern was
the lobby itself seeing brightly and some of those lights are being taken out and the
chandlers turn off after dark so the lights that are on at night to navigate and
mitigate at night.
Jason said the loop road is not a change from what had been proposed in the
conceptual application. The loop road serves 3 purposes: emergency access for the
fire department, the ambulance egress from the ambulance barn and the service
function of bringing goods and linens and supplies to the hospital. In Phase III a
second service dock will be added on the west side of the ambulance ramp. The
service uses will arrive at the north entry. The new dock on the west end in Phase
III is specifically related to supplies stored off site and the trucks operate during
daylight hours. The loop road will be signed as service.
Jason talked about the overall landscape plan is divided into zones and in the more
intense zone you will see more decorative plantings and those are all around the
entries to the hospital building in Phase II and III and as it progressively towards
the edges of the property it transitions to a native landscape to achieve a number of
goals. We are trying to create an extensive planting plan and one that is not
burdensome to the hospital. Jason said that they were also seeking LEED
certification the Second Phase and native plants also helps to blend into the
existing landscape. The gamble oaks are very old and the wall is very specific to
the preservation of those trees. There are about 200 feet of Cottonwoods that they
will preserve. Jason said another goal of the master plan is to provide screening
where possible to take advantage of both grades and soften; we know that we can't
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make the hospital disappear but we want to take advantage of every opportunity to
soften the views to the hospital from off site. Jason said they are working under
pretty complex parameters; one was with the Parks Department who look at things
like species and the long term viability of the plants and once we get through that
approval we are at a density, there are engineering constraints is the sight triangle
that identifies the existing hospital is deficient in the distance that you can see up
and down Castle Creek Road when you are coming in and out of the hospital.
Jason said another site constraint is with easements on the site; a water line main
that runs the entire length on the east property and it is 25 feet off of the right of
way and they are not allowed to plant any trees or large shrubs in that water line
easement. As the landscape is installed there are a huge number of plants from
Phase II that will not go in until the spring of 2013. There are still 120 trees to be
planted around the parking garage and larger trees.
Dave re-emphasized this was a phased project and being a good neighbor is their
intent. Dave said he hoped that you would allow us to bring the whole project to
fruition. We have had a community advisory committee in place since 2006 and
the neighborhood outreach is more intensive with 3 meetings every month for our
neighbors and it is the first Monday night every month. And they have a monthly
meeting with Whitcomb Terrace and the Senior Center and monthly meetings with
the Meadowood Homeowners Association. Dave said they have a feedback
manager, Frank Goldsmith.
LJ stated that they will take a break and come back with the commissioner
comments and then the public comments. Gideon Kaufman asked if they could
have the citizen comments before the Commissioner Comments. Jasmine noted
that was not following procedure. LJ said that sometimes we answer your
questions but in the nature of things we will let the public comment first.
Public Comments:
1. Bud Glissman stated that he joined the staff at Aspen Valley Hospital in
1984 and was the founder of the group that staff's the emergency room. Bud
said that he has turned the emergency room into one that everybody trusts
and feels comfortable bringing their medical problems knowing that they are
going to get high quality competent care in a comfortable environment; the
environment part is becoming difficult because this emergency department
was designed and built before emergency rooms had a substance. It is too
small, there is no privacy, there are not enough exam rooms, not enough
procedure rooms, it is cramped, there is no proper nursing station layout. It
is inadequate and it is time to upgrade. Bud said this is about the community
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and he is sensitive to light pollution and the hospital is well put together.
This may impact some people but the bottom line is the welfare of the
community.
2. Kathleen Hagerty said that she knew a lot of people benefited from their
services at the hospital and they do need more space back in surgery, we are
expanding our services, our clinics, and serve the community so you don't
have to go down valley. We need more room for our technology and
privacy.
3. King Woodward stated that he lives in Meadowood and there are a number
of people working with the hospital through Frank going to the Monday
meetings at the first of the month and the lighting has been addressed. King
said they have done a spectacular job. King said P&Z does an excellent job
and he was on P&Z in 1965 when the first master plan was done.
LJ closed the public comments portion of the hearing.
Commissioner Questions:
Cliff Weiss asked the code height for a mechanical unit on a roof top; he said that
he though 10 foot was code. Jennifer responded that this is a PUD and during
Phase II we developed a mechanical plan. Cliff asked what kind of noise and a
visual of what these units will make and he wanted to know the color of some of
the larger units. Russ replied as far as the air handling units go we can produce
some visuals so we can see what they will look like in the context of the various
views. Cliff asked if every mechanical unit was on the model at AVH. Russ
replied that because the scale was so small it was hard to get it down to the foot
and inch but he suggested they re-present photo-shop of the perspective shots of
the building with the color and size of the units. LJ asked about the decibels and
noise. Russ answered they would have them at the December 4th meeting. Cliff
asked what would be planted in front of the building. Russ replied that Sheet L102
which is in exhibit appendix is on the west boundary and they are Aspen trees and
Blue Spruce in an even base. Cliff asked where the water line that was-preventing
you for putting up a certain amount of screening. Russ answered that it runs all the
way along the eastern property boundary and you will see larger plants in one area
and a lot are yet to be planted. Russ said there were existing cottonwoods on the
water line easement and if we were to cut them down they would not be able to be
put back on that easement. Cliff asked when will we get a basic recommendation
on the lighting. Russ replied they will be getting recommendations on the Phase II
project before that next meeting the final outcome but they will not be done with
all of the design finished for Phases III and IV to a level where we can bring
renderings of what that will look like.
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Stan Gibbs asked about a comment made at the site visit about automatic shades
couldn't be in the patient rooms and he asked why it could be done in a PT room
but not in a patient room. Russ replied the windows in the patient rooms do have
full blackout shades as well as the translucent screens and we feel it is
inappropriate to force the window shades to be drawn in a room that is occupied by
patients sometime 24 hours a day; it gives them control over their environment.
Stan said there was ice from the loading dock and going up to the building on our
tour; do you have a plan for controlling ice. Russ replied that at times we might
have to have a chemical or salt treatment; once the hospital is completed they will
be able to manage the winter months better than with all the construction going on.
Stan asked if we were talking about transportation in the future or now, not just
RFTA but pedestrian. Jennifer there was a transportation demand traffic plan or
are you looking at how people are going to move through this site. Stan replied
yes because he has had some experience that has just changed. Stan asked if the
RFTA buses are going to be able to drop off at the Phase IV entry. Russ answered
the design of the building is designed to allow that turning to take place by a
specific request by a passenger to go there and be dropped at that location. Stan
said when he was trying to come from the bus there was a section of the pedestrian
path that just stopped before the front door and he could see that people were
walking through an unmarked area. Stan asked if they had plans to continue the
outreach ongoing. Dave said just like they are continuing the outreach for Phase II
they will do it all the way through the construction and the stopping point would be
when construction is done with Phases III and IV.
LJ said Stan noted a dangerous situation and asked Russ if they will bring a
solution to the pedestrian situation in that are from the hospital to the bus stop.
Jason said that they could fix that. LJ asked about the ambulance back up noise,
the beepers and how would that be handled. Gideon said it was a circular drive.
Dave said there will be no backing outside of the garage. LJ asked if there would
be an exhaust fan to clear out the exhaust. Dave replied yes. LJ asked the grade in
BB; he asked Jennifer how you measure height when you start with height; does
the height of the building start from the upper grade or the lower grade. Jennifer
said at the parameter of the building you measure up; so it is either natural or
finished whichever is more restrictive. Jennifer said in Phase II they did a roof
plan showing the elevations from finished grade so that it was easier to know how
high a certain feature of the building was. LJ asked Jennifer if she found the
answer to Cliff's question regarding the mechanical. Jennifer responded that it was
5 feet above the height of the building at the point that it is attached and it is
supposed to be 20 feet back from the perimeter of the building. LJ asked if it met
that. Russ replied no because it is a PUD. LJ asked if you can make that
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mechanical more horizontal rather than vertical at I I V2 feet. Russ said that they
have already optimized the dimensions and made the heights of them as low as
possible but the size of the fans that circulate dictate the height. LJ asked if the
fans were vertical or horizontal. Russ replied they were vertical, the shafts were
horizontal and the blades are vertical and they blow air through the unit. LJ asked
why can't you put horizontal ones on there. Russ replied that they don't make
them that way; they blow the air through filters and duct work horizontally. Russ
said they have to go through sequences and steps. LJ asked where the back-up
generator was located. Russ answered it was basically between the boiler room
and the berm. LJ asked why didn't you put more mechanical in the basement.
Russ responded they put all of the air handling in the basement that we could based
on the location of the basement and they can't build a basement under the existing
one story building. LJ asked what was the purpose of having glass and light up to
the second floor at the current entrance now. Russ stated it was a 2 story space
with a balcony in it and the windows provide natural light into the space reducing
energy consumption providing views to the outside, it is an amenity. LJ asked if
we were discussing the new entrance. Russ replied yes. Jennifer said it was Phase
IV. LJ asked what height was that going to be with all that glass. Russ said the
height was just under 20 feet and will be a little lower than the Phase II entrance
because the Phase II is a full 2 story building; the majority of the Phase IV lobby is
really just a high lobby space with a portion that will be 2 story. Russ said that he
would bring the illustration to the next meeting.
LJ asked if you have to evacuate the patients in the building what kind of system
do you have. Dave asked if you mean like an internal disaster. LJ replied yes.
Dave stated there were plans in place which involves ambulance evacuation; if we
need to evacuate the entire building we have current plans that you go out the
emergency entrance and take the patients to the ambulances. LJ said that egress is
very steep how are you going to keep snow and ice off that egress. Russ said that
area will have snowmelt in it.
Commissioner Comments:
Cliff said they need a sidewalk from HHR when you get off the bus, there is no
place to walk, you are in the middle of the street. Dave asked if it was the intent to
cross where it does exist today and you have a crosswalk all the way across. Dave
said the stretch that Stan was talking about was not completed, that sidewalk will
go all the way around. Stan said it isn't that the sidewalk isn't there it is that
people don't necessarily go where the sidewalks are placed people will go where
they want to go not where you want them to go as a planner. Stan said that he
crossed the street and came to this corner of the parking lot 3 feet away and he
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could see footprints where there were going to be plantings or even if you plant a
fir tree people are going to go through there and tear it down and they are going to
walk into a parking lot which is not necessarily what you want them to do. Stan
said he didn't know what the right solution was but human nature being what it is;
it got to be an obvious thing. Stan said now that he knows this is there is no sign
there. Dave said what you (Stan) are saying if you are coming out of the HHS
building there is no sidewalk, people are going to walk and they do walk alongside
the hill now.
Cliff said you have a lot of LED lights and he understands how efficient they are
and understands how sensitive you are to the neighbors. Cliff said that he was
sensitive to the light and the LED lights unless shrouded are very bright. Cliff
thought the mesh was okay but he wanted them to continue to look at that. Cliff
said shrouding the lamps inside with those boxes was almost too much; he didn't
know if bollards were the answer to keeping the light from going down and not out
sideways. There are a lot of solutions out there that will help you not with just the
rooms but with your entrances; you are going to build a really big glass wall facing
south and I heard some concerns about that from the neighbors about that and he
happens to like that design but a window tinting film might be a solution for that
entrance as well as the ortho entrance. Cliff said the fixture right over the door was
very bright and cast in all directions. Cliff said as far as the rooftop mechanical he
needs something that tells him where and what can we do to mitigate it as best as
possible. Cliff said back to the mesh and maybe by working on the lights it will
eliminate his concern about the mesh. Cliff said he was concerned about the
affordable housing that will in some ways screen the hospital but maybe you can
learn from the hospital and it will be a problem of its own.
LJ said Cliff was right about the lights being too bright even though they are
inside.
Jasmine said the things that she wanted to talk about are not covered today.
Gideon asked if there were some things that we can finish with continuity
Cliff said the applicant expressed that to some degree it is a learning curve that is
happening even while it is under construction. So we are reacting the same way
you are; it is a work in progress. Cliff said he was supportive and give the
neighborhoods as much mitigation from light pollution as we can and sound
pollution.
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MOTION: Stan Gibbs moved to extend the meeting by 10 minutes; seconded by
Cliff Weiss. 3 in favor I opposed.
U said this building is beautiful and great in a big city; we are in a small city. U
said we need this building to look smaller; this is the situation is to make it smaller.
The second story and the new entrance with the curve will be hidden by trees. U
said that the lights are too bright and he was concerned about the grade and it will
change when you put the townhomes in; work on the mesh but you need to deal
with the lights.
U asked where more softening was needed with landscaping. In reference to
HVAC U said he thinks you can make it more horizontal than vertical.
MOTION: Stan Gibbs moved to continue to December 4`h; seconded by Jasmine.
All in favor, APPROVED.
Adjourned at 7:20 pm.
ckie Lothian, Deputy City Clerk
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