HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.apz.20121204 Regular City Planning & Zoning Meeting— Minutes December 04, 2012
Comments 2
Minutes (11/20/12) 2
Conflicts of Interest 2
Resolution regarding conflicts of interest 2
Continued - AVH Aspen Valley Hospital 5
601 E Hyman — Growth Management Review 13
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Regular City Planning & Zoning Meeting— Minutes December 04, 2012
LJ Erspamer opened the regular meeting of the Planning and Zoning Commission
in Sister Cities Meeting Room at 4:30. Commissioners present were Ryan
Walterscheid, Keith Goode, Bert Myrin Cliff Weiss, Jasmine Tygre, Stan Gibbs
and LJ Erspamer. Commissioner not present was Jim DeFrancia. Staff in
attendance were Debbie Quinn, Assistant City Attorney; Jennifer Phelan, Deputy
City Community Development Director, Sara Nadolny, Community Development;
Jackie Lothian, Deputy City Clerk.
Comments
Bert Myrin thanked everyone for the work session last week and will get
something to the Commission before December 181h and we can finalize it then.
Ryan Walterscheid asked if these were concerns and what were we asking Council
to do. Bert answered that what we had worked on while we were there was a
request to Council to work on things for us so we would know something
affirmative. Ryan said he would prefer the authorization for us to work on the
things rather than just a recommendation.
Jennifer Phelan said the next meeting was December 18th and the 1St of January
was a holiday so we would have a P&Z meeting on January 8th
Minutes
MOTION.- Stan Gibbs moved to approve the minutes from November 20`h with a
change to page 13"Regardng HVAC' seconded by Cliff Weiss. All in favor,
APPROVED.
Disclosure of Conflicts of Interest
Ryan Waltersheid mentioned before that he worked across the street from 601 E
Hyman but had no conflict with this application.
Public Hearing:
Resolution regarding conflicts of interest
LJ Erspamer opened the public hearing on the Resolution of conflicts of interest.
Debbie Quinn prepared a resolution in order to deal with issues such as the one that
rose earlier this year when there was a request for the recusal of one of the
members with a potential bias. So this resolution that is in the packet basically sets
forth a provision and basically sets forth a procedure and recites the provisions of
our home rule charter and our code that allows you as a board to adopt your own
rules of procedure that would ideally have all these potential allegations of bias
resolved prior to the actual hearing itself. Debbie said what it does is require that
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Regular City Planning & Zoning Meeting—Minutes December 04, 2012
any applicant who's matter is set for public hearing who believes that any member
of this commission is biased and unable to render a fair and impartial decision on
their application they should present that request for recusal to the City Attorney's
Office prior to the public hearing date. Debbie said at that point the City Attorney
would meet with the affected member and determine whether or not that person
could render a fair and impartial decision and advise the applicant accordingly.
Debbie said there will always be situations where it might come up at the last
minute and she addressed that in the very last paragraph of the resolution but she
thinks what was important is that our Municipal Code already talks about false
acquisition proceedings and what it requires of you as volunteer board members
under a fair and impartial decision and those are all referenced in paragraph 8 of
this procedural resolution. Debbie said it was a good reminder for your duties and
obligations to be fair to all and to members of the public.
Stan Gibbs said if you get the none of the above case where 3 days before the
hearing the applicant realizes or comes to a realization that they need to contact
you, how do you see that resolving. Debbie responded if anybody who contacts
our office before the hearing we would make our best effort to try to talk to the
affected member and try to resolve it back to the hearing and let the applicant
know before what the outcome is. Stan said on the last sentence of the resolution
"The Chair may, but need not, request a motion and vote on any such action." Stan
asked if you can square that with number 10 which seemed a little contradictory to
him. Debbie replied this could be an action such as requesting a recess of
proceedings if an issue comes up during the course of proceedings as we had to do
with the last time it came up; it is an individual determination when allegations of
impropriety, fairness, bias, excreta of an individual come up; you have to soul
search and see if you can sit and listen and be impartial. Debbie said it is not
something for this board to determine, that is why it needs to be resolved in
advance however if it does come up at the hearing it is up to the chair to maintain
the integrity of the proceedings and do what is necessary to make sure the public
hearing doesn't get side tracked or out of control. Debbie said this is where the
chair can take some action and he could request a motion for continuance or a
motion for a short recess to calm down or whatever is necessary, not emotion to
make a determination as to whether or not a conflict exists. Stan wondered if a
little language in here could be added just to clarify because when he read it he
thought wait a minute. Debbie said that was a really good comment. Stan said a
motion in general could be anything, a procedural motion or a motion for exactly
what you said a motion to continue or recess. Debbie replied a very good point on
that and she was happy to do that. U asked where does that go Stan. Stan replied
it was the last sentence of the resolution. U said instead of"request". Stan replied
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Regular City Planning & Zoning Meeting—Minutes December 04, 2012
request a motion to do something or continue the direction and anything that
Debbie comes up with is fine.
Cliff said in order to give them time before the actual public hearing, is there going
to be something that the applicant receives that identifies P&Z commissioners so
that they can determine in advance; how do we communicate this up front so it
doesn't be a last minute thing. Debbie answered the intention of the resolution is
that it is up to the applicant to contact the attorney's office if they believe that there
is a conflict and the member needs to be rescused. Debbie said the attorney's
office would then contact the member and have a discussion. Debbie said if they
don't know until they see a face then we can't deal with it until that moment and
that is why she put that language in there. U said that was he talked to Debbie
about this morning.
Bert Myrin said that it was important that it have direction about continuing the
meeting to a future date so that future P&Z who were reading this understand what
our conversation was. Debbie suggested the last sentence then is that "The chair
may but need not request a motion to continue or recess the hearing".
U asked about number 6 members recuse themselves when a conflict is apparent.
Debbie responded those are the ones when you have your agenda and it says
"declaration of conflicts of interest" that is when you self disclose and you do that
at every meeting.
Public Comments:
Gideon Kaufman said to simply answer the concern that every applicant has to
come in for a pre-application conference so why can't as part of the pre-application
process be handing out the names of the P&Z members, then they get to look at
them way in advance and avoid any last minutes situation. U asked if there was
any thought on adding the P&Z members to the pre-application conference. Bert
asked how much burden would that put on the applicant versus the staff. Ryan
Walterscheid said the pre-application was dictated by staff and would be a
response with the P&Z Members names on it. Debbie said her only thought on it
was not burdening staff with more than what we need to do and we have WEB
pages that already list who you are that it is up to the applicant to know who the
commissioners are.
MOTION.- Bert Myrin moved to approve Resolution 21-12 with the additions by
Debbie Quinn to the last paragraph, seconded by Jasmine Tygre. Roll call vote:
Stan Gibbs, yes; Keith Goode, yes; Cliff Weiss, yes; Bert Myrin, yes; Jasmine
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Regular City Planning & Zoning Meeting — Minutes December 04, 2012
Tygre, yes; Ryan Walterscheid, yes; LJErspamer, yes. All in favor, APPROVED
7-0.
Continued Public Hearing:
AVH Aspen Valley Hospital
LJ Erspamer opened the continued public hearing. Jennifer Phelan stated this is
the third public hearing with regard to Aspen Valley Hospital and tonight we aren't
in a place to be making decisions on the application; we have more information
from the applicant's team that we will be going over tonight and looking at some
future dates. Jennifer said that we are looking at a continuation date of January Stn
for the next meeting on the hospital.
Jennifer said tonight we are looking at Phases III and IV of the Master Facilities
Plan for the hospital and the architect, Russ, will be going over some items and the
new lighting consultant is here and Tom Dunlop is here to talk about the sound and
the sound readings that he has taken. Jason Jaynes is here tonight to get back to
P&Z on the connectivity issue that Stan and Cliff brought up at the last meeting
with regard to how do pedestrians get to once they get off the bus easily make it to
the hospital.
Jennifer suggested in the best use of time the applicant should go first tonight so all
of their team members can tell what they have done.
Dave Ressler, CEO, said that we have some good information for you tonight and
we don't have final determinations in everything we have but we do have some
good information. Dave said they have learned some good lessons in regard to
Phase I1 and our intent is to correct some of those ideas and we were really trying
to achieve our energy efficiency and safety those were the 2 things in Phase I1 and
maintaining the dark atmosphere.
Russ Sedmak introduced Nancy Clanton of Clanton and Associates and a
nationally renowned lighting design and lighting engineer. Nancy gave a
background of her firm which she has had for over 30 years with experience and
they are completely committed to quality lighting. Nancy said that she was a
Fellow of Rocky Mountain Institute, Board of Directors of the Dark Sky
Association and a Fellow of her Technical Association. Nancy wrote a model
lighting ordinance that could be used for any community and delves into this new
light source which is LED lighting which is presenting a challenge for a lot of
communities and designers. Nancy said it was a learning curve on the spectrum of
light that LED puts out and she is honored to be up here to access the situation and
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Regular City Planning & Zoning Meeting — Minutes December 04, 2012
provide some suggestions. Nancy said we can apply those lessons learned to the
next Phase. Nancy gave examples of the projects that she has done in the Aspen
area as in the Aspen Institute Conference Center that was definitely committed to
sustainable lighting; the Viceroy in Snowmass Village and the Maroon Creek
Bridge was a huge challenge to light without putting poles up so their suggestion
was LED lighting that just lit the pavement. Nancy said Aspen was a very dark
ambient situation so how do we light this situation and in the Model Lighting
Ordinance I would almost put you at the bottom or lighting zone zero.
Nancy said that moonlight was 100th of a foot candle and highways are lit from a
half to a 1 foot candle. Nancy said there were some great opportunities in how we
can work with that and she has noticed in a lot of light trespass issues if someone
can see the light that is intrusive. So one thing they are looking into was not
anyone see the light and to shield it from off property. Nancy said that LED
lighting was a new design and they can do it because every single element you can
put in a little cap that puts little micro shields on every element so there are things
that can be done with it but it is way beyond what you are used to. Nancy said the
warmer the color of light more like an incandescent the less glaring it is.
Nancy said looking at options for Phase 1I was the retrofit; one option may be
replacing some equipment. Whitcomb Terrace has a lot of pole lighting and that is
an example of replacing some of the equipment.
Nancy said is we could dim the light or go to a lower light. External shields are
ugly and could put more wind loading on the poles and that would probably be the
last thing to look at just a lot of added issues with external shields. Nancy said the
plan hasn't been refined yet and we are not quite ready but there are a lot of
opportunities. Nancy said the light in the garage so you can't see it out and the
screens in the garage will help a lot. The top deck lighting is already turning off at
night. The garage light dim down and when you walk past them they come up to
what we call bi-level, so it goes down to 1/3 of the level.
Nancy said for Phases III and IV get the light lower and more built in amenities;
more step lighting. Nancy said she would like to make the lighting classy.
U asked the commissioners if they wanted to ask questions on lighting and get that
out of the way. Cliff said that Nancy talked about shielding and wind load
especially on pole top and then you mentioned something that he actually has no
thought of or was aware of was to individually shield these LED bulbs. Cliff said
these LED light cast off a lot of glare so the pole top stuff on top of the garage is
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Regular City Planning & Zoning Meeting— Minutes December 04, 2012
the most offensive and is it an option to use shielding around a fixture and the
LEDs, it is an aftermarket thing that can be done. Nancy replied yes; it is not even
after market because they way these lights are designed is that you can take out the
LED trays and replace them; they are not a light bulb that you screw in and this
can rotate the trays and she wanted to add to the selecting. Cliff asked if it was
cost effective. Nancy replied that it was because this manufacture has 12 different
options of distribution and shielding and it is disbursed and if it works great. Cliff
said he wasn't sure that the screening on the garage was a recommendation or if
you had other thoughts at this point. Nancy said that was something that Russ
could delve into because they were architectural screens. Russ said the shielding
that Nancy was talking about is the image on the bottom of the power point that-
demonstrate the effects of hanging shields in the structure which is a lot different
than the trying to do it on the pole light. Russ said there were several fixtures that
could not be shielded by architectural on the outside of the building because of
openings in the garage that need to remain open and those are the lights that could
benefit from these sorts of shields applied.
Bert said the screening was relatively light colored and would a light or dark color
screen comes through with what comes through on the outside. Nancy replied yes
it does and that is something that she wanted to work with the architect team and
would get samples and changing the color of light depending upon what the inside
shield is.
LJ asked if the pole lights were fixed or did you have to have them so high or
could you have them lower and how do you deal with area lighting rather than
direct lighting. LJ asked if this was the concept you were dealing with as far as
height. Nancy said pole heights are restricted by 12 foot high poles in Aspen. LJ
said page 89 part 500; outdoor lighting shall be 12 feet or less in height. Nancy
replied basically a 12 foot pole is more of a pedestrian type pole and it is not
optimum for a parking lot which would typically be 20-25 foot high. Nancy said
that this was very common and this is what was accepted in some communities. LJ
said it could be lowered. Nancy replied that it could be lowed and even put in
bollards or lighting amenities. LJ asked Jennifer on page 88 reduce glaring and
offensive light sources and this refers to only outdoor lighting. Jennifer asked
what section he was talking about. LJ replied the section was 26.575.150 the intent
and purpose of outdoor lighting can it refer to the spillover from indoor lighting.
Jennifer said we have no code for indoor lighting and the hospital is going beyond
what our requirements are with regard to lighting; discussing what their task is for
some of the indoor lighting with the automatic shades and turning off some other
interior lights. LJ asked about reflective lighting on the top of walls; are there any
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Regular City Planning & Zoning Meeting— Minutes December 04, 2012
lights that shine on a wall, in other words if you go to the circle you can look up
and see; is there any plan to avoid reflecting that light off the wall which creates a
more brightness at the upper level of the parking lot. U asked how do you avoid
reflecting light off the wall that creates a bigger mass and scale of the building.
Nancy responded anytime you have a light next to a building it's going to reflect
off the wall from the power point she showed where they could dim that light with
a warmer color and this was a common technique to light surfaces. Russ said this
was an important area because this was where people walk up to enter the building
so there needs to be adequate lighting for pedestrians. Stan said it was a public
entrance to a building so does there have to be a certain number of lumens. Nancy
replied there were no standards but there were recommendations unless the town
says you have meet the illuminating engineering society light levels and those light
levels are now being changed depending on what lighting zone that you are in and
what you are adapted to.
Cliff said this is a smaller lobby entrance than the kind of lamps that are shown
here but in Phase III/IV the new lobby has a larger wall of glass and maybe you
can help us with films that you can put on glass that allows light in but blocks light
from coming out as much as 50%; is that reasonable or tasteful for the hospital.
Nancy replied that it was not real tasteful; she thought they could use lighting
design and light it lower and let the daylight come through during the day if that is
going to benefit patients and staff and celebrate that and at night treat it like an
outdoor area with more step lighting so you don't need to fill the volume of light.
Russ said in that final phase it tends to be a much more indoor/outdoor. Cliff said
it is not too late to make the modifications that Nancy recommends or possibly use.
Russ said there will not be any hanging pendants in that space. U asked if you
didn't have all that glass and you brought the side of the building down further
would you have less light spill over on the outside; in other words take away that
top half of that glass. Nancy responded that light doesn't bend so if we lit
everything lower like at a lower level and went down that upper glass could go
really dark; there were so many benefits for the daytime daylight that she wouldn't
want to change the architecture to get less glazing; let's just get the lighting design
so we don't get that upper glass to glow. U asked how much solar gains are you
going to have if you plant those pines trees in front of those glass windows. Nancy
replied even diffused light, the direct light is not a good thing and if the pine trees
diffuse the light and the sky gives off a lot of light. U asked if there was a glass
that you make that could diffuse or refract this light. Nancy said there was a film
that is designed mostly to direct sunlight and directing it back up to the ceiling so it
would almost do the opposite but diffusing even glows more and clear glass has a
potential to go dark. Nancy said a film could be a reflector with sunlight hitting it
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and be a glare source during the day and she said she was a proponent of clear
glass.
Russ commented that Tom Dunlop has been with us as an engineer designer since
2006 and the conceptual review in 2007, we committed to basically making any
noise levels current or below the hospital's levels in 2007. Russ said that we
committed doing a study at the completion date of Phase II and relation to this
P&Z review we thought it appropriate for Tom to do an interim analysis now to
demonstrate what the sound levels are coming from the hospital and at the property
line today versus where they were in 2007 and upon completion of phase II we will
do that analysis again.
Tom Dunlop introduced himself and gave his background in Environmental Health
since 1970 in Colorado and 1976 he was hired by the City of Aspen to start the
Joint City/County Environmental Health Department. Tom said in that role he
wrote the first Noise Ordinance for the City of Aspen and that came about when
snowmaking was being proposed for Aspen Mountain. Since that time there have
been iterations of that Ordinance and with Howard McGregor who is the president
Engineering Dynamics based in Englewood Colorado. Tom said that noise was
based on a log erythematic scale so it measured that way based on the way people
hear. Tom provided a chart on Page 38 of the packet regarding sound noise levels;
he said that his conversation with you at this volume of my voice was about 55-60
decibels. Tom said if you have a 10 decibel change it is perceived as being either
twice as loud or twice as soft. The process we used was to identify ambient sound
and ambient noise levels within a 360 degree around Aspen Valley Hospital and
the neighborhood. Tom said keep in mind the definition of ambient noise is
composition of sounds from various sources that are very common to a specific
area so ambient noise moves with the area that you are considering.
Tom said in 2007 part of the study we did included a helicopter study which occurs
about 50-60 times a year for patient transport and was not done for the 2012
because we have good information from 2007 and the location of the helipad is
only 15 feet higher than the location from 2007. Tom said they flew St. Mary's
largest helicopter in for the study in 2007 and had to cover 50 or so feet above the
current landing zone and got 4 aspects which simulated where the new landing
zone will be in Phases III and IV. When we first start hearing the helicopter it is
coming past the airport from Grand Junction so it takes a minute or 2-3 minutes
depending on weather to get from the airport to the hospital and the last 5 to 10
seconds at the loudest when landing because the rotors have to be adjusted for a
soft landing. Tom said that transient sounds that go past you are perceived much
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Regular City Planning & Zoning Meeting— Minutes December 04, 2012
louder because they are going past you; stationary sound has a lower standard
applied. Tom said the City Municipal and County Ordinances do not cover
aircraft; that is regulated by the FAA. Tom said there were 9 sites depicted for
noise study sites on the second page from the pack of his report (page 37) but the
hospital is a black spot in the middle that looks like baseball diamond; so there
were 14 different locations around the hospital for the noise monitoring network
and the 9 we picked up for this 2012 study were part of the 2007 study also; 2 of
the site were requested by the neighborhood on Heather Lane, the Meadowood
Subdivision is in the county and the other land surrounding the hospital is in the
city.
Tom said looking at the noise Ordinances for both the city and county the most
restrictive standard is 50 decibels keeping in mind my conversation is 55-60. So
the night time levels are 50 decibels and generally it goes from lam to 7pm, most
of the night time should not exceed 50 decibels. The measure data shows the noise
environment around the hospital is not pristine but it is typical in a mixed land use;
we have the hospital, school campus, a church, a major traffic intersection,
southerly approach to the airport, a water treatment plant, an office building in the
form of human services and the Senior Center. Tom said the studies from 2007
and 2012 are almost identical on ambient levels; each of the 14 receptor sites
registered noise levels below the most conservative standard of 50. On page 34 of
the memo Tom provided the 14 different sites and ranged from 29 which was over
by the High School on Glen Eagle Drive to 49 which was the closest spot of the
hospital property line, site 12. Tom said that the conclusion was that between 2007
and 2012 has not resulted in excessive noise. Tom said that a noise barrier has
been constructed around the chiller unit and in one neighborhood the noise level
was reduced to 41.
Cliff said looking at the average decibel levels were ever above 50 or was it always
at 50. Tom responded there are times when it is higher and times when it is lower.
Cliff said some machinery because of its nature of operating it puts out more noise;
personally he lives next to a house that has radon exhaust on the roof and he can
hear that. Tom said that low frequency sound register doesn't register as high
frequency sound does; the humming noise that you are hearing is like an air
conditioner sound.
Stan asked if there was a weighted scale so is "8" physically a low frequency or a
high frequency. Tom responded the low frequency is measured specifically in
community noise enforcement standards.
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Regular City Planning & Zoning Meeting— Minutes December 04, 2012
Russ said that 4 circles in a row that are depicting trees and there is a red line that
is in front of those from the bus stop from right to left and that is a sidewalk that
has yet to be constructed and that is part of the connection that will be completed
from Phase II in spring.
LJ asked if the subject Jasmine was waiting for would be covered in the next
meeting. Jennifer said that we might want to wait until the next meeting to address
PUD criteria.
Public Comments:
1. Graeme Means said that he was a neighbor of the hospital and was
concerned about the noise and the light from the hospital and was
encouraged by what he heard tonight. On the other hand he feels-that this
should have been the level of approach from the beginning. Gram said there
were sound issues long before this construction started; last night at the
neighborhood meeting the hospital tried to satisfy the neighbors. Gram said
he thinks these things can be mitigated making it a better place for the
hospital and neighborhood.
2. Peggy Carlson is a neighbor from Meadowood and she wanted to address
the mechanical box on the top of the building and that box is very high and
we talked about screening it. Peggy said from last night's meeting they
heard that there is going to be an exact replica of that mechanical from Phase
II and voiced concern for it to be mitigated and hopefully this can be
addressed.
3. Nancy Kole stated that she lived at the top of Meadowood on Larkspur and
she can see the mechanical box and the hospital footprint from her home.
Nancy said to get another box we learned last night is 49 feet and 8 inches
long and if it 13 or 18 feet wide and 12 feet 6 inches high is like another
story on top of the hospital. Nancy asked to bring in a professional to talk
about that problem.
4. Dr. Bill Rodman wanted to thank you for the great improvement that it has
made so far; privacy is of importance. Dr. Bill Rodman said in the next
Phase they would be doing the same for the emergency room; right now it is
that patients are on top of each other and the new privacy aspects are greatly
needed.
5. Cindy Johnson said that she was a lab tech at the hospital and their
laboratory was going to be in Phase IV now and they are having a terrible
time keeping private the patients that come in the office in the out-patient
area with only 4 chairs. Cindy said they we mandated by law to follow that
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we have patients safe and we need to increase our testing it was more and
more important that we have privacy.
LJ closed the public comments portion of the public hearing.
Cliff said that we are not voting tonight he assumes that there is another meeting.
Jennifer replied the expectation is to continue this until January 8th. Cliff said that
Russ made a presentation at the last meeting and he found it difficult to discern
anything from that so will that be addressed at the next meeting on the 8th. Jennifer
asked if he wanted more clarity around the mechanical. Cliff asked for him to
make a decision. Leslie Lamont stated that they submitted a cover memo that had
about 4 views at build-out. LJ said it was the current landscape. Cliff said the
applicant is presenting a good deal of information about mechanical roof top units
and the code is not applicable. Jennifer responded that you are using the PUD
criteria as the basis in general for approving Phases III and IV. Jennifer said at the
next meeting she will be talking about the mass and scale, how the conceptual
relates to what has been approved now but as a Planned Unit Development you are
site specific approval based on those criteria. Cliff said he was having trouble with
stairwells and elevators and how there are other technologies out there and it is 10
feet high and this is what we need and code allows it and He always feels it is an
eyesore. LJ said in the PUD the mechanical heights are not limited but it is a
special project so we have no criteria to judge and limit it. LJ said to Russ you
have a drive shaft with vertical fans that must gear and pinion that you have are
there any other mechanicals that you can put more horizontal than vertical. Russ
said the exhibits in your packets that illustrate the design of the air handling
equipment represent the largest of the units that is being planned for Phase III
which is similar to all of the units that we have on the roof. Russ said those are a
low profile horizontal unit, which means the air is brought in on the side and blown
horizontally through the various chambers that temper the air, filter the air, mixes
with return air that comes from the building which comes from below and is as flat
as it can be for the volume of air that it needs to push through it. Russ said you
could theoretically make units smaller by adding many more of them on the roof or
placed wherever you can place them which is terribly inefficient from the cost and
energy and maintenance standpoint. Russ said we are putting in the most energy
efficient, long lasting, quiet machinery that we have. LJ said at the last meeting it
was 11'6" and now somebody brought up that it was 12'6" above the roof. Russ
said that was a unit that on the Phase 11 project which is under construction right
now. Russ said the largest if the units in Phase III are in the basement; don't have
a basement in Phase II that allows mechanical air handling units to be placed in it.
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Cliff said that was helpful what Russ said. Jennifer said that we can bring back a
clear roof plan for Phases III and IV at the next meeting.
LJ said that we need to memorialize these lighting conditions in the resolution.
Jasmine asked if there was a proposed date for the retrofitting that you described;
is it proposed at a particular time so we can see if it works. Nancy replied not yet
mostly because we were just brought in last week and asked if we could get back
to you on a date.
Bert echoed what Nancy said that it was the best meeting that he has been to and
read the minutes from the last meeting and Russ nailed it with the areas of
Whitcomb Terrace, the top of the parking structure and the loop road. Bert said he
would be interested in darker screens and more step lighting rather than pole
lighting.
Keith said the more structures that come in front of us with more glass the more
issues we will have with lighting.
Ryan said he appreciated your expertise and it is nice to see that at this level. To
speak to Keith's point the building code in town requires that you meet the energy
code and that we are going to show in our lighting and may not be from the
lighting code but from the building side of it. Ryan said that he was glad that the
hospital is over and above of what we get from other applicants.
Bert said the sound that meets the code and the sound that is no worse than it was
and would like to strive to be good neighbors with the sound.
MOTION: Jasmine Tygre moved for the Hospital Hearing be continued to January
8`h; seconded by Bert Myrin. All in favor, APPROVED.
Public Hearing:
601 East Hyman — Growth Management
LJ Erspamer opened the public hearing for Growth Management for 601 E Hyman.
Sara Nadolny said the public notices were Exhibit E. Debbie Quinn asked Mr.
Clauson if the notice has been posted. Stan Clauson stated that they were.
Sara stated this public hearing was regarding the redevelopment plans for 601 East
Hyman that involves the demolition and replacement of the current 2 story
building with a 3 story mixed use building. Sara said that this particular hearing
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Regular City Planning & Zoning Meeting—Minutes December 04, 2012
will cover the Growth Management and Subdivision and has received approval for
Conceptual Commercial Design Review. P&Z is the final decision making body
for the Growth Management Reviews and City Council is the final decision
making body for the subdivision review but require a recommendation from the
P&Z Commissioners. Sara said there were 3 Growth Management Review
involved with this application; the first is the addition of 2,056 square feet of
Commercial Net leasable space and translate to 2,056 Growth Management
allotments as they are available through the 2012 Growth Management Review
with the City. The second review deals with the 1,835 free market net livable
space that will translate to 1 Growth Management allotment which staff also agrees
with. The third Growth Management Review deals with affordable housing; the
development within a mixed use space requires Affordable Housing Mitigation at
60% of the employees that are generated by this new commercial space. Basement
and upper floor are commercial space is a 25% reduction of the number of
employees generated per square feet of new net leasable space. The amount of full
time equivalents that must be mitigated calculates to 3.41 FTEs just for the
commercial. Sara said the net livable space in a mixed use development requires
mitigation at the rate of 30% of the net livable area calculated out 540 square feet
of Affordable Housing space that will need to be provided for with this net livable
plan; we have calculated that into 1.38 FTEs. No onsite mitigation is being
proposed with this plan so the code say the applicant must provide the full
mitigation for both the new net leasable and livable, which is a total of 4.79 FTEs
total. Sara said the applicant has proposed to provide mitigation of a certificate of
affordable housing credit and this mitigation is supported by the City's Housing
Authority as well as Community Development staff.
Sara said the project has to undergo subdivision review as well because that 3rd
story residential unit will have to go separately in trust from the commercial
development. Staff finds the subdivision will be compatible with this development
and the C-1 zone district and doesn't adversely affect the future development of the
surrounding,area and suitable use for the land and overall this part of the
application is found to be compliant with subdivision review criteria. Staff
recommends a favorable recommendation to City Council.
Cliff wanted to understand the certificate. Jennifer replied the certificate is in
FTEs, a certificate can be any amount and depends on how much affordable
housing was developed that would grant under that certificate.
Bert said you went over page 3 and he asked what P&Z is here to decide; he said it
looks like a math problem. Jennifer responded that it was essentially a math
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Regular City Planning & Zoning Meeting — Minutes December 04, 2012
problem and what you are verifying with the Growth Management Review is that
the form of mitigation that is being proposed is acceptable. Bert said the certificate
seems to be a choice among several an applicant can select from and it is not up to
us to tell the applicant what you can and can't choose. Jennifer said the certificate
is a form of mitigation that you can accept.
Stan Gibbs asked where the extinguishing of the certificate actually get in book
and what parts of the whole development process are held up until that happens so
that we actually know they have carried forward with. Jennifer replied that they
actually haven't extinguished one and we would want to see it at building permit
issuance.
U asked if there were certificates available on the market today. Jennifer
answered there are certificates on the market. U asked if there was cash in lieu for
parking; how does the government use this money. Jennifer replied that it was
provided to the transportation department and used for capital projects that they
have. Debbie Quinn said such as improving the Rio Grande Garage and that kind
of thing. U asked if there will be a TDM involved in this. Sara said the TDM and
park fees will be part of this. U said APCHA was asking the APCHA board to
make a decision on the certificates after we make a decision. Sara stated that she
met with Cindy from APCHA and she wrote a recommendation for this process.
U said aren't we putting the cart before the horse.
Stan Clauson representative for the applicant provided history on the project; P&Z
provided conceptual approval on July 30th and GMQS application was submitted
on the 10th of August; there was a Council call up largely to define the amount of
open space which was subsequently increased and then P&Z granted conceptual
commercial design review addressing the open space question on the 16th of
November. Stan Clauson said the total floor area for the building is 8,957 square
feet in the C-1 zone district and would allow 11,250 square foot building and no
variances are requested for this project. Stan Clauson utilized power point to show
the building pulled back on the first level, widening the sidewalk on Hyman
Avenue and this all covered under the planning and zoning commission and we
will be coming back for final detailed design review and at that point there may be
changes to the fenestration of the building.
Cliff asked if they were selling commercial space; are you condominizing. Stan
Clauson said there would be a condominium plan prepared but he couldn't speak to
the exact nature of that plan; it would be recorded at final plat. Jennifer stated that
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Regular City Planning & Zoning Meeting—Minutes December 04, 2012
there is a definition of subdivision; the way the ownership is set up now triggers
subdivision.
Jasmine asked for clarification of the affordable housing; are they categories.
Jennifer replied that they are category 4 or lower which the applicant can use for
this project. Jasmine said the approval calls for them to mitigate at a category 4
level or lower.
LJ said if they mitigate on site it is 1.38 and if they mitigate off site it is 4.79; is
that correct. Jennifer said in the code right now you have to mitigate for the total.
No public comments.
LJ said he was reluctant to make a decision on something that APCHA hasn't
decided on but if put in a condition that it has to be approved by APCHA before
we approve it. Jennifer said this is a legitimate form of mitigation that you can
approve and that you already have a representative of APCHA saying they would
like to see that form of mitigation.
Ryan stated that if it is a way of mitigation that meets the code he doesn't see a
way to hold it up.
Stan Gibbs said it would be valid to put a condition of approval just to say if for
some reason APCHA decides it is not appropriate then it has to come back to P&Z
for re-review. LJ said he liked that and the other was a Transportation
Development Management Plan; what are we going to see what another
department is going to do in that TDM.
MOTION: Bert Myrin moved to approve Resolution 22, 2012 granting GMQS
allotments and recommending Subdivision for expansion of new free market
residential and new net leasable commercial space with the following
modifications would add this approval shall be contingent on the recommendation
from the APCHA board that mitigation shall occur via certificates of affordable
housing credits and in Section 1 add these certificates of affordable housing credit
shall be extinguished by the City prior to issuance of a building permit for 601 E
Hyman; seconded by Jasmine Tygre. Roll call: Stan Gibbs, yes; Keith Goode,
yes; Cliff Weiss, yes; Jasmine Tygre, yes; Ryan Walterscheid, yes; Bert Myrin, yes;
LJErspamer, no. APPROVED 6-1.
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Regular City Planning & Zoning Meeting— Minutes December 04, 2012
U voted no because he did not want to be dependent upon another Board's vote
(APCHA Board) after P&Z's vote.
Adjourned at 6:55 pm.
AO�JL I
Ado�".
J �kie Lothian, Deputy City Clerk
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