HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.boa.19850606 CITY OF ASPEN
BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT
JUNE 6, 1985
CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS
4:00 p.m.
AGENDA
I. MINUTES
II. NEW BUSINESS
Case #85-11 / Independence Lodge
III. ADJOURNMENT
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
REGULAR MEETING BOARD OF ADJUSTNENT JUNE 6. 1985,
Chairman Lavagnino called the meeting to order at 4 : 07 pm with
members Josephine Mann, Rick Head, Anne Austin, and Charlie
Paterson present.
MINUTES
Nay 23, 1985: Mann corrected the spelling of interpret on page 4 ,
second paragraph. Lavagnino corrected the spelling of interpreted
on page 5, third paragraph, third line. Bill Drueding, building
department, asked that in the forth paragraph on page two, last
sentence be changed to read "Mr. Gibson stated that Bill Drueding
said. . . ".
Notion: Josephine Mann moved to approve the minutes of May 23 ,
1985 , as corrected; Rick Head seconded. All in favor; motion
carried.
NEW BUSINESS
CASE #85-11 / INDEPENDENCE LODGE
The applicant was not present. Barry Edwards, city attorney, said
the Board should consider the application on its merits, take
public comment, and make a decision.
Lavagnino read the variance requested:
"Request a height limit variance to allow the construction of
a 9 foot by 19 foot roof access stairway and roof deck which
would exceed the 40 foot height limit by 6 1/2 feet. Proposed
addition to the . Independence Building exceeds the 40 foot
height limit for that commercial core zone (See Article VIII,
Section 24-3 .4 area and bulk requirements, CC (7) Aspen Code) .
This building is also in the Wheeler view plane. Proper
application has been made to that commission. Application
does not add floor area. "
Lavagnino said he did not have anything to make a judgement
on. Mann asked if the Board could not find out from Bill Drueding,
building department, what the stairway and deck are to be used
for. Drueding said that the stairway is an official exit and is
necessary. They need an exit, whether they need it in that
location or not is still to be determined, but another exit on
that floor is required. Lavagnino asked if the exit was required
because of the work they are doing now , or was it always
required. Drueding replied he was uncertain but it is required now.
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REGULAR MEETING BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT JUNE 6. 1985
Paterson asked if the exit had to be to the roof to which Drueding
replied not necessarily.
Head said he had heard some discussion of additional floor area
ratio with respect to sky lights and jacuzzis. Drueding asked if
the applicant had submitted any plans or information. The reply
was no. Edwards said the only information available is information
Drueding was able to find in the building department which dealt
with a view plane submission. The plans are dated April 29 , 1985
by Stan Mathis Architects and appear to be the bid drawing for
the project. Drueding had some concerns about the actual variance
that is being requested versus what the drawings show. The best
that the Board can do is to consider the drawings and make a
determination based on that.
Drueding and the Board reviewed the plans dated April 29 , 1985 . The
plans showed 2 skylights, a spa, and a railing above the 40 foot
height limit. Edwards said the hot tubs and skylights were not
part of the noticing and should not be considered. Lavagnino
asked if the railing was part of the variance requested to which
Edwards replied yes. Drueding added that in the request it
states a request for a roof deck for which the railing would be
required because the parapet is lower. Lavagnino then asked if
any kind of projection like a railing around the building was
allowed. Drueding replied nothing with the exception of mechanical
equipment, antennas, etc. , was allowed. Edwards stated a concern-
since the Board is considering the railing, which is a required
part of the deck, it may change the height they are requesting
a variance for.
Head said he felt it was ludicrous to consider something without
the applicant present to even rebut the comments that are being
made. Lavagnino said there are questions for the applicant such
as alternatives, use, etc. Lavagnino said it had been said by the
building department that the applicant needs another egress by
ordinance. Drueding said they have an access on to the roof now
but it is a ladder and you have to crawl out which is not to
code. Where the Wheeler view plane intersects with the Independence
Building was discussed among the Board, building department and
planning office members. Lavagnino asked if the stairway projection
would be in the view plane, the answer was yes. Steve Burstein,
planning office told the Board that the view plane had already been
approved.
Edwards asked if the Board had information that would allow them
to make a determination that this is the minimum variance. The
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REGULAR MEETING BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT JUNE 6. 1985
Board replied no. Mann said she would like to see the Board
reject this application in such a way that the applicant can come
back with a more complete proposal if they are going to need the
other variances discussed. Head said he felt very strongly that
the Board should have some input from the architect or the
developer because we are not looking at the total request here.
The Board asked that the architect_ s be contac_ted_ to_ se_ e_ i_f a
representative could come to clarify the request.
A lady was present for Heinz Wolf who stated that Mr. Wolf, owner
of the Cooper Street Building, had sent a letter in opposition
to this request. As of this date the letter had not been received.
The applicant was contacted and given time to come to the
meeting. The meeting was recessed at 4 : 24 pm to await his arrival .
The public meeting was reopened at 4 : 35 pm. Curtis Odom was
present for the applicant. Mr. Odom stated that the applicant ' s
basis for applying for the variance was for roof access. The
access would reduce the insurance premium for the lodge. In
addition, it would provide fire egress to the roof and down the
side of the building on the east side via the existing fire
escape. Since the building is built to the extent of the setbacks
there is no open space and we are hoping to gain some common open
space on the roof.
Mr. Odom said in the drawings presented as part of the application
we are proposing to set the stairway structure inside the parapet
of the building. The view of the new stair structure will be
shielded by the existing parapets throughout the core of town. You
would not be able to see this from the Mall or any of the central
area of town other than on the ski lift.
Edwards asked Mr. Odom what the applicant was asking for. Mr. Odom
replied a stair structure on top of the roof of the Independence
Building, a deck which would cover the south end- of -the roof, and
a walkway to the fire escape. Edwards asked if the applicant was
still planning on installing a jacuzzi tub and skylights on the
roof. Mr. Odom replied that it was possible and added the skylights
are not visible from anywhere. The jacuzzi is still a question
but the skylights will be included. Edwards told Mr. Odom that
the application for variance does not include any reference
to either the skylights, or the Jacuzzi, or the access to the
Jacuzzi, or the deck surrounding the Jacuzzi, therefore, those
are not being considered by the Board at this meeting. Mr. Odom
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REGULAR MEETING BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT JUNE 6. 1985
said the deck they have requested in their variance is the deck
around the jacuzzi. Edwards responded the deck that the Board
sees on the bid plans dated 4/29/85 show a 9 foot by 19 foot deck
immediately adjacent to the stairwell.
Mr. Odom said that there is an existing skylight and the new
skylights are shorter in profile than the existing one. It
was his understanding that it was not necessary to apply for
the new skylights since they were below the profile of the existing
skylight. With regard to the deck Mr. Odom outlined the area
requested on the plans. He said that there is a jacuzzi drawn in
on the plans so that when the applicant got bids it would be
included as part of the package. Whether we put it there or not
is still in question. Edwards clarified that the jacuzzi would be
put on the 9 foot by 19 foot deck to which Mr. Odom agreed.
Austin asked what the walkway on the plans lead to. Mr. Odom
replied that it was to the fire escape. The deck and walkway
will give us fire egress for people coming from the second and
third floor. Lavagnino asked if there was no other fire egress to
the existing fire escape from the roof . Mr. Odom replied that
there was egress from the second floor, not from the third
floor. Mr. Odom added that the building had the required egress
inside the building, with 2 fire corridors. Lavagnino then asked
why the requested stairway was a required egress. Mr. Odom
replied that the building was 4 stories and a building of this
type has to have access to the roof. Lavagnino asked what access
to the roof was in existance now. Odom replied a hatchway. Lavagnino
questioned if the hatchway was up to code to which Mr. Odom
replied that it was not at this time. Lavagnino asked why they
needed the extra height. Odom said the stairway would be giving
public access to the roof and this is a minimum stair enclosure
size for a public access.
Lavagnino questioned what_ would happen if the applicant was not
granted a variance, what would his recourse be. Drueding replied
that the roof could be accessed without going over the height
limit with another hatchway type exit. Lavagnino asked why the
existing hatchway was not to code. Mr. Odom replied it was not
code worthy for public access. We are trying to get public access
to the roof and what we have now is a maintenance access. Edwards
commented that the applicant is adding an amenity to the building
to which Mr. Odom agreed. Odom added that it would be an amenity
and a safety aspect of the building. Lavagnino asked why the
safety would be greater in this kind of construction than a
hatchway that would meet code. Odom replied that hatchways to
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REGULAR MEETING BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT JUNE 6. 1985
roofs are not intended to be fire egress, they are intended for
access for maintenance. Edwards said his feelings were that the
applicant does not need this access unless they have public
access to the roof. Once they have public access to the roof they
will have to have a way to get people off of that roof in case of
fire. Odom said they have a four story building and the code says
you have to have access to the roof in a four story building. A
hatchway is not considered proper access for a four story building,
that can be used by the public.
Lavagnino asked what the hardship was in this case. Odom said he
was not sure what position the building department was going to
take. Since the applicant is using the basement and not using the
first floor, except for entry, I am not sure what they are going
to call this. We will have a hardship in getting our building
permit because of code violation.
Lavagnino said if the Board denies this variance we are denying a
requirement of code. Drueding said no, because there are alterna-
tives to this particular situation. Lavagnio said we need to find
out what those alternatives are. Drueding said Stan Stevens was
coming to the meeting to interpret what the requirements are and
alternatives. Drueding said with a deck on the roof it will add a
story to the building which may change other requirements.
Head questioned what the hardship was with respect to the deck
and jacuzzi. Odom answered that they are trying to make their
hardship into an amenity as well. Head stated the Board ' s job
is to grant the minimum variance necessary. I don 't think any of
us have a problem with getting access to the roof, for fire and
safety, but a deck and jacuzzi, how can we grant a variance on
those. Obviously you would like to have a nice stairway going to
the roof to access these amenities but it is the Board' s rules
that prevent us from granting a variance for a jacuzzi and a
deck . Odom asked if the jacuzzi was eliminated would the Board
still have a problem. Lavagnino said if there is a need to get
to the roof , as a requirement, our position is that we would
grant you the minimum variance to allow you to meet code
requirements.
Lavagnino asked Stan Stevens, plans' checker for the building
department, for clarification as to what is required by code as
far as egress to the roof and what the minimum requirement is to
get there to serve the purpose of the code. In addition, has
it been determined that this is a four story building. Mr. Stevens
replied to his knowledge this is a 3 story building, code defines
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
REGULAR MEETING BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT JUNE 6. 1985
a story as requiring more than 50% of the perimeter to be 6 feet
from the floor above to grade or 12 feet at any one point around
the perimeter. This would mean in order to be a 4 story building
the basement area would have to be, at least in 50% of the area,
6 feet above grade as measured from grade to the top of the floor
of the first floor. You are allowed to use basements for several
uses and it still is a basement but code gets sensitive when it
talks about the floors.
Mr. Stevens said for a 3 story building there is no requirement
for access to the roof, for a 4 story building there is a requir-
ement that you have access to the roof. Lavagnino asked, now that
it has been determined this is a 3 story building, is the applicant
still requesting an access to the roof. Odom replied yes. Lavagnino
then asked on what basis they wanted access to the roof now that
the access is no longer a requirement. Odom said as a building
amenity and as a fire egress off of the roof. This will still
benefit my client to have access not only for the deck on the
roof but also to get off of the roof from the third floor in case
of fire. Drueding asked Stevens if the building were considered
four stories what would be the minimum access they would be
required to have. Stevens answered a required stairway which must
be stairs no more than 7 1/2 inches high, no less than 10 inches
deep, and must have handrails as required by code. A ladder is
not acceptable as a required stairway except for the simple
adjustment of mechanical equipment.
Lavagnino said nothing has been said with regard to why the
applicant wants to go up 6 feet with a covered stairway. Would a
hatch cover on top of the stairs be sufficient? Stevens said
there may be problems in terms of handrails and other
requirements. A required stairway can not suddenly start without
a handrail . Odom said he had another possibility, instead of
building the enclosure over the stair, to allow the stairway to be
exposed to the weather. By doing it in this way we would not need
the enclosure, only the handrail and the deck for access to the
fire escape. Lavagnino asked if the deck was required to get to the
fire escape. Odom replied that the deck was not required but the
handrail that would surround a walkway is required. Lavagnino
then asked if a walkway was required to the fire escape. Odom
said they are building a walkway above the roof membrane so that
it will not be damaged. Stevens said if you have a deck up there
you will be required to have a handrail around it. There is no
requirement that requires a fire exit across the roof of a 3 story
building. With a 4 story building you must have stair access to the
roof but not a fire exit from the roof.
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REGULAR MEETING BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT JUNE 6. 1985
It was questioned if there was a practical difficulty, in talking
about a hatchway, with snow on top of it. Odom said they also
have a practical difficulty with building an open stairwell for
that same reason. That is why it wasn 't done that way in the
beginning.
Edwards asked if the building department was treating the Indepe-
ndence Building as a 3 or 4 story building. Odom said he had not
been able to get a ruling on it.
Mann asked how the people on the top 2 floors get out now in case
of fire. Odom replied there are 2 existing fire exits now and
outlined them on the plans. The people on the third floor now
have to get down to the second floor to use the fire escape. Stevens
said the building is required to have 2 exits from the third
floor and they presently have only one , being the stair
corridor. Odom said the problem is that the third floor access to
the fire escape is through a private room. What we are trying to
do is get from the third floor through the roof and down the
fire escape. Edwards commented that the applicant is trying to
avoid losing a rentable space for the fire egress. Odom said they
had already gotten through their required exit phase, what we are
trying to do here is get access to the roof so they can get down
the fire escape from the roof. Lavagnino asked what the approved
exit phase was. Odom replied that it had already been reviewed
by Jim Wilson and Rob Wayne at the building department and they
have been satisfied. Lavagnino said the Board would like to know
how the building department was satisfied so that we can make a
determination on why you want this roof access. Odom said, again,
what they are trying to get is simply a walkway to the fire escape.
Lavagnino asked if that was the way they had satisfied the
building department, by going through the roof. Odom replied not
for third floor fire egress. Lavagnino asked again what the third
floor second fire egress, that has been given to the building
department to satisfy their requirements, was. Mr.Odom could not
remember.
Lavagnino said the Board can not make a determination on allowing
something for safety when that aspect has already been
satisfied. Odom said he was not necessarily asking for something
that is a building code requirement for safety, but something
that will be an amenity to the building because it provides
another egress off of the roof. Head commented that the Board has
a hard time approving a variance where in your hardship is to
service an amenity to the top of the building. If you can demons-
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REGULAR MEETING BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT JUNE 6. 1985
trate to us that there is a need for this access to the roof we
would be happy to grant the variance. So far we have not heard
any hardship or practical difficulty. These requirements could be
attained in another way.
Paterson asked if there were any maintenance reasons that would
require access to the roof. Odom replied there was alot of
maintenance going on there, air moving equipment will cover a
large section of the roof area. Paterson asked if the skylights
had to washed. Odom replied yes and added that they will need
access and ability to walk around on the roof. Mann said if she
were on the roof in the event of a fire having to walk around all
of the maintenance equipment could be confusing in finding the fire
escape. Paterson said he was concerned about accessing the deck
with an uncovered stairway because of snow in the winter, it
could be frozen closed. Odom agreed that was a problem. Drueding
commented that it has already been established that the only
access that is required on to the roof would be for maintenance,
not fire egress.
Odom said they don' t need a stairway for maintenance on the roof,
and would be willing to give up the enclosure and make it an open
stairway if the Board could allow the handrails. We are using it
as an amenity to the building but it also will be a safety
feature of the building that wasn ' t there before. You will not be
able to see the handrail from town. Lavagnino asked if they were
giving up the deck request. Odom replied no.
Odom said the critical issue was the height and what you will
be able to see from around town. If the applicant can come up
with dimensions where from 400 feet away from the building you
can not see the handrail why would it effect the Board whether
the applicant was able to jumble the equipment around so that
there was a deck up there. Lavagnino replied because you have
given the Board the argument that you need a safety access to
the fire escape. That is the only valid reason for even considering
this request. We are trying to justify granting a variance based
on a safety factor rather than an amenity factor. If granted I
would confine the area and be very definitive about where the
handrail is put and for what purpose the handrail would be used.
Jim Wilson and Rob Wayne, chief building officials, arrived to
clarify some of the questions raised. Drueding questioned if
putting people on a deck on the roof would increase this from a 3
story to a 4 story building, which would constitute a need for
access. By putting a deck up there you are creating a need f or
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RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
REGULAR MEETING BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT JUNE 6. 1985
the access. The officials said for exiting reasons, getting
people off of the roof, the deck would be considered another
story. Lavagnino asked if the maintenance hatchway the building
has now would be considered a fourth floor. Mr. Wilson answered
no, it would be considered roof access, it is not public.
Austin commented the only reason for the requested access to the
roof is for the amenities. There are other alternatives. Head
said he had not heard any argument explaining this as a hardship
or a real need.
Lavagnino asked for clarification on the comment the applicant
made regarding the fact that the building department had been
satisfied with 2 fire egresses from the third floor. One has
already been indicated but Mr. Odom was unclear as to what the
second egress was. The building officials indicated that the
existing fire escape was sufficient.
Lavagnino asked for any further comments or questions. There were
none.Mann asked the applicant if he was aware that an adjacent
property owner voiced an objection to this request. Mr. Odom replied
he was not aware.
Lavagnino closed the public hearing.
Head commented that he could not find a hardship or practical
difficulty in granting this variance as submitted. Although in my
heart I would like to see a deck and jacuzzi there, under the
guidelines that the Board has to go by I can not justify granting
the variance. All members of the Board agreed with Mr. Head.
Motion-
Rick Head moved to deny the variance requested as no practical
hardship or difficulty was shown; Austin seconded. All in favor ;
motion carried.
Notion-,
Ms. Mann moved to adjourn the meeting at 5 : 23 pm; Austin
seconded. All in favor motion carried.
Rim Wilhoit, Deputy City Clerk
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