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REGULAR MEETING HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION NOVEMBER 16TH, 2022
Chairperson Thompson opened the regular meeting of the Aspen Historic Preservation Commission at
4:55pm.
Commissioners in attendance: Jeffrey Halferty, Roger Moyer, Peter Fornell, Jodi Surfas, and Kara
Thompson.
Staff present:
Amy Simon, Planning Director
Kevin Rayes, Planner
Kate Johnson, Assistant City Attorney
Jim True, City Attorney
Ben Anderson, Community Development Deputy Director
Mike Sear, Deputy City Clerk
Risa Rushmore, Administrative Assistant
MINUTES: Mr. Halferty moved to approve the minutes from 10/26/22. Mr. Fornell seconded. Roll call
vote: Mr. Fornell, yes; Ms. Surfas, yes; Mr. Halferty, yes; Ms. Thompson, yes. 4-0, motion passes.
Mr. Moyer joined the meeting at 5:02pm.
PUBLIC COMMENTS: None.
COMMISSION MEMBER COMMENTS: Mr. Moyer said he had been in front of the affordable housing
project at 8th and Main and commented that since the historic resource and new addition are both
painted white, he didn’t think anyone could tell the difference. He thought it was an issue that they
should address at some point. He went on to comment that not having in-person meetings is ridiculous,
because of the virtual meeting issues that are being experienced. Next, he described his belief that their
job is not the applicant, it is the historic resource and the guidelines. Over his time on HPC he has
learned that they can say no.
Mr. Fornell said he respected Mr. Moyer’s comments but disagreed with his thought that their only job
is the historic resource. He said that on one of the hearing items before them tonight, of the five issues
before them to review, only two of them deal with the historic resource. They are making final decisions
on matters that have nothing to do with historic preservation. He wishes their only task was to review
historic assets, but they are also tasked with making final determinations on things like growth
management quotas, transportation & parking, and certificates of affordable housing. He questioned
why this is their job.
DISCLOSURE OF CONFLICTS OF INTEREST: Ms. Johnson referenced a public comment that was made
stating that Mr. Fornell should disqualify himself from one of tonight’s agenda items and that there was
some context around why they felt that way. She stated that she had talked with Mr. Fornell and
reviewed the public comment and didn’t believe that there was a conflict of interest in this case.
PROJECT MONITORING: Ms. Simon said she had worked with Ms. Thompson and Mr. Halferty on their
projects and would reach out to Mr. Moyer on another project soon.
REGULAR MEETING HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION NOVEMBER 16TH, 2022
STAFF COMMENTS: None.
CERTIFICATE OF NO NEGATIVE EFFECT: None.
CALL UP REPORTS: Ms. Simon mentioned that two projects were called up to City Council. 434 E.
Cooper, the Restoration Hardware project as well as the 520 E. Cooper project, where Pitkin County Dry
Goods is located were both called up and Council upheld HPC’s decision on both projects.
Ms. Thompson asked if Council had any additional comments on the projects. Ms. Simon said Council
had brought up some concerns with the Restoration Hardware project being a large space only devoted
to one tenant and some councilors also showed interest in the dynamic glass that HPC influenced the
applicant to use.
SUBMIT PUBLIC NOTICE FOR AGENDA ITEMS: Ms. Johnson said that she reviewed public notice, and
that notice was provided per the code for both agenda items.
NEW BUSINESS:
413 E. Main St. – Minor Development Review and Commercial Design Review, PUBLIC HEARING
Applicant Presentation: Gavin Merlino – Kuulla Studio
Mr. Merlino started by mentioning that he had worked with Kate at Jing when they built a Covid
temporary structure. He said that she wanted to take some elements from that enclosed heated space
and try to make that work in a more aesthetic and functional way. He said it would be a two-part
process that would first see an open-air porch structure built that will give them a bit more protection
and privacy. This would consist of columns and a flat roof. They have a structural engineer on the project
to make help minimize the size of the beams to make sure the structure does not appear too massive.
The structure would also be completely within their property line. The second part of the project, which
would go before City Council, would be to add temporary walls to the porch during the cold weather
months. These would not be canvas or tent walls, but would be framed, properly insulated, and have
functioning windows. He mentioned that what they are proposing to HPC tonight is a smaller footprint
(192 square feet) than what was in the original packet. He then went over some of the differences. Mr.
Ben Rose said they had originally proposed a larger footprint, but after feedback from City staff that
they would be more inclined to favor a smaller footprint, they modified their proposal.
Mr. Fornell mentioned the encroachment of the planter boxes onto the City right of way that Mr.
Merlino had brought up and asked if they had been moved back onto their lot line. Mr. Merlino said that
was to be determined as they are not sure if they would be using them. Ms. Thompson said as she
understood it, that would be an encroachment easement that would be handled with the Engineering
Dept. if they decide to use them. Mr. Merlino agreed. Mr. Fornell then asked if the moving of the planter
boxes to within their lot line was a condition of approval, would they be ok with that, to which Mr. Rose
said yes.
Mr. Halferty asked if the windows represented were the sliders that were approved by HPC about a
month ago to which Mr. Merlino said yes.
Ms. Surfas asked if they had been installed yet to which Mr. Merlino said no, that they were waiting to
see what the overall construction outlook is.
REGULAR MEETING HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION NOVEMBER 16TH, 2022
Mr. Halferty then asked about the drainage plan for the structure. Mr. Merlino went over their initial
ideas to run downspouts to the existing drain on the property.
Staff Presentation: Amy Simon – Planning Director
Ms. Simon described the concerns that staff had raised about the design and size of the original
proposed porch and thanked Mr. Merlino for his quick redesign. She said they had referred the project
to the Engineering Department to make sure things like drainage were looked at. She suggested that
HPC not make the issue of the planter boxes a condition of approval as it is really Engineering’s purview.
She noted that the applicant would be approaching Council in a few weeks for a temporary use review
regarding the proposed solid walls to be installed in the colder months, but that that is not on the table
for HPC. She stated that staff is recommending approval of this restudy.
PUBLIC COMMENT: None.
BOARD DISCUSSION: Ms. Thompson thanked Mr. Merlino for his presentation and quick redesign and
said she was in support of this reduced footprint. No other board members had any issues with the
project.
MOTION: Ms. Thompson moved to approve the next resolution in the series with the revision to section
#1, stating that HPC hereby approves Minor Development and Commercial Design Review with the
reduced porch size as represented at the November 16th meeting. Mr. Halferty seconded. Roll call vote:
Mr. Fornell, yes; Mr. Moyer, yes; Ms. Surfas, yes; Mr. Halferty, yes; Ms. Thompson, yes. 5-0: All in favor,
motion passes.
205 W. Main St. – 205 W. Main Street- Historic Preservation Conceptual Major Development,
Relocation, Certificates of Affordable Housing Credits, Growth Management Quota
System, Special Review, Transportation and Parking Management – CONTINUED PUBLIC HEARING
Applicant Presentation: Stan Clauson – Clauson Rawley Associates
Mr. Clauson started by introducing Ryan Sutton from Conservation Housing Partners and Brian Beazley
with DJArchitects. He went on to review the project background and the history of the historic resource,
highlighting the outstanding item to be addressed, being the Main St. façade at the 3rd floor.
He then went over the items that were previously accepted at the last meeting and had no changes.
These included the Major Development, Relocation, Growth Management, and Special Review for unit
size and percentage below grade. He then went over the items previously discussed and that have been
updated. These included the Certificates of Affordable Housing Credits, due to the reduction of the 3rd
floor, the Special Review for Floor Area, again due to the reduction of the 3rd floor, the Special review for
Parking mitigation, now to have cash-in-lieu to be paid and Conceptual Infrastructure Design. He then
reviewed the proposed updates to the FTE calculations and square footages which would result from
the two options being proposed to reduce the 3rd floor area. He stated that there were no changes to
the project location and again highlighted its proximity to the Molly Gibson lodge. Next, he went over
more of the history of the historic resource and its original relocation to its current location. He
mentioned that there are no changes to the site plan and parking.
REGULAR MEETING HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION NOVEMBER 16TH, 2022
Mr. Sutton went over the updates to the project which still included nine units but would result in a 1-
bedroom reduction. He continued by describing the two proposed options (A & B) that were in response
to HPC discussions at the last meeting. Option A moves the façade back 9 feet from the original proposal
and places it behind the ridgeline of the historic resource. It also reduces on er of the units from a 2
bedroom to a 1 bedroom and from 866sf to 641sf. He showed site plan and elevation comparisons of
this option to the original proposal. Option B moves the façade back 14 feet 6 inches from the original
proposal and places it well behind the ridgeline of the historic resource. This option also reduces the
unit from a 2 bedroom to a 1 bedroom and from 866sf to 561sf. He again showed site plan and elevation
comparisons of this option to the original proposal. Renderings of both options were then shown. Mr.
Clauson then showed a few pictures of precedent properties and made comparisons to this project. He
then presented a wide picture streetscape study showing building proportions, scale, height, and width
of the surrounding properties on Main St. Next a 3D model was presented and walk around views were
shown from both pedestrian and driver perspectives. Mr. Clauson recognized HPC’s goal of protecting
historic resources but noted that another goal is meeting the overall goals of the Aspen Area Community
Plan and City Council. One of these key goals being affordable housing. He reminded the members that
this project is intended to house employees of the Molly Gibson Lodge and meets all the parameters of
the zone district.
Ms. Thompson asked about the ridge height of the front element of the new structure on Main St. She
said that Mr. Halferty noted at the last meeting, and she agreed, that it would be more appropriate
pulled down to the ridge height of the historic resource and asked if there was a reason why they did
not make that change. Mr. Clauson said their understanding was that pulling the elevation of the third
floor back to the HC gridline was the agreed upon issue to be part of the restudy. He said reducing the
ridgeline to match the resource has no basis in the Land Use code or Historic Preservation guidelines
and would considerably reduce the amount of affordable housing.
Staff Presentation: Amy Simon - Planning Director, Kevin Rayes - Planner
Ms. Simon started by going over the history and relocation of the historic resource to its current location
from Hallam St. She showed a site plan going over the proposed relocation of the historic resource 10’
north and 10’ east on the lot. She also noted that while the house has sat on the lot in its current
location for a considerable amount of time and this location is well known, it was not originally built on
the property. Referencing the applicant’s presentation, she said that the relocation to the corner of the
lot would highlight the historic resource and it would be consistent with the placement of other homes
in the area. She highlighted one of the recommended conditions of approval, being that the applicant
would be asked to provide the standard $30,000 security deposit for relocation. She noted that the
applicant had requested that that be due at permit issuance instead of permit submittal and the
condition has been worded to say that. Next, she detailed the condition related to the restoration of the
historic resource related to the over-framed roof and non-historic additions to be removed. She also
went over conditions related to the front walkway, the proposed built-in BBQ in the shared courtyard,
the westernmost carport roof redesign, footprint of the proposed lightwell at the southwest corner of
the Victorian and the stormwater management plan. Next, she noted and went over the applicant’s
response to HPC’s direction and showed elevations and renderings detailing the two options the
applicant had presented. She said staff believed that either of the two options would be successful.
REGULAR MEETING HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION NOVEMBER 16TH, 2022
Mr. Rayes then went over the proposed Affordable Housing credits, growth management review and
transportation and parking review. He reviewed the unit distribution between the three buildings and
the breakdown of the proposed Affordable Housing Credits generated within the two new buildings and
the historic resource. These totaled 23.8 FTEs. He then showed a table of the unit square footages and
highlighted the two options the applicant had proposed for unit 6. Next, he went over the special review
criteria for sub-grade floor area and detailed the four units that have subgrade floor area. He then went
over the transportation and parking review details and reminded the HPC members that the applicant
has removed their original request to have the parking mitigation cash-in-lieu waived and will now pay
the mitigation through cash-in-lieu. The Floor Area Special Review was then detailed by Mr. Rayes for
the two options proposed by the applicant after their restudy. Option 1 would be a 1.01:1 ratio totaling
7,586 sq. ft. (86 sq. ft. above what’s allowed by right) and Option 2 would be a 1.02:1 ratio totaling
7,667 sq. ft. (167 sq. ft. above what’s allowed by right). The Floor Area Special Area Review criteria was
then detailed, and Mr. Rayes said that staff believes the criteria to be met. He then referenced some
language in the Aspen Area Community Plan regarding affordable housing. He finished by stating that
staff is recommending approval of the Conceptual Major Development, Relocation, Growth
Management, Certificates of Affordable Housing Credits, Transportation & Parking Management, Special
Review for Subgrade Living Area, and Special review for Floor Area.
Mr. Moyer asked Ms. Simon if this is being proposed to house employees of the Molly Gibson. Ms.
Simon said that that is the applicant’s intention and clarified that this project is not the applicant’s
mitigation for the hotel as they have provided affordable housing on-site for that project. This is a
voluntary development of affordable housing which they may use for their employees, but it could be
occupied by other residents.
PUBLIC COMMENT: Ms. Simon noted that there were a number of letters that were provided to HPC
members in the packet as well as a few that were emailed to them on Monday and Tuesday. Ms.
Thompson asked for confirmation for the HPC members that they had read the letters sent via email. All
members said they had read them.
Mr. Rayes displayed a letter from Mr. David Scruggs while Mr. Scruggs made his comments. Mr. Scruggs
mentioned that he was not opposed to affordable housing and thought it was good for this location but
had issue with the quantity of housing that is being proposed for the location. He disagreed with the
status of the application as described by the applicant. He said it was merely continued for restudy and
there were no limitations to HPC’s review. He stated that HPC’s obligation is to preserve and protect
historic assets. He stated that he thought this project should be denied and continued for restudy
because it doesn’t follow the guidelines of the HPC, APCHA or the Land Use Code. Next, he went over
the guidelines and why he thought they were not met. In closing he asked that they not sacrifice history
here and that the application be denied. He made a few suggestions for what the project should be
allowed, including a reduction of the number of units to 6 and not to relocate the historic resource.
Mr. David Dowler noted that he had submitted a letter to the HPC and after looking at the drawings he
did not see the new buildings as being respectful in scale to the historic resource. He agreed with Mr.
Scruggs that the project should be restudied, and the number of units be reduced.
Ms. Marsha Dowler requested more information related to the historic neighborhood behind the
proposed project. She said the applicant’s presentation defined the neighborhood from Main St. only
and the examples of deferential scale of similar projects were mainly in a commercial context. She
REGULAR MEETING HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION NOVEMBER 16TH, 2022
thought it would be valuable for the applicant to submit a study that would map the patterning of the
historic neighborhood immediately behind this project.
Mr. Clauson responded to public comment by pointing out that the neighborhood in question here is
the Main St. historic district. Those were the guidelines that were given to them and the guidelines they
are to follow. Any properties across the alley are in a totally different zone district and have different
parameters. They have met the parameters for the mixed-use district of Main St. which are significantly
different than the residential districts.
Mr. Moyer moved to extend the meeting. Ms. Thompson seconded. All in favor, motion passes.
BOARD DISCUSSION: Ms. Thompson noted that HPC has to balance the Code and Guidelines in front of
them, including the Aspen Area Community Plan and Historic Preservation Guidelines which are both
subjective things that they need to interpret. She also noted that there are many land Use Code
documents in front of them to review and approve, reminding members that they want to be fair to all
applicants in the same zone district that need to meet the same guidelines.
Ms. Thompson noted for the record that commissioner Barb Pitchford had joined the meeting at
6:55pm.
Ms. Thompson clarified that no formal approvals were made at the last meeting. Discussions were had
and recommendations were given to the applicant team. She then stated the items that were generally
agreed upon at the last meeting included the Certificates of Affordable Housing Credits, Transportation
and Parking Management and Relocation and asked if there were any additional comments. There were
none. She then brought up the Special Review items to allow for the maximum floor area increase and
sub-grade living area percentages and asked if there were any additional comments from board
members. There were none. She then moved on to Major Development and noted the discussions from
the last meeting related to guidelines 11.3 and 11.4 and opened it up for further discussion.
Mr. Moyer said he respected the 73 years of history of the house on the lot and was not opposed to the
relocation of the historic resource as long as it met the guidelines. He did not feel the relocation would
enhance the historic resource given the size of the proposal before them. He thought the mass and scale
is outrageous and totally overwhelms the historic resource and that open space and porosity are
virtually non-existent. He was not opposed to the affordable housing if it was reduced by 50% allowing
the mass and scale to be reduced. He went on to describe his thoughts related to the affordable housing
project at 8th and Main St. and that he believed the historic resource got lost. He felt if this project was
to be approved with both buildings painted white someone walking by would not have a clue that there
is a historic resource there. He was not prepared to approve this and would send it back and ask for a
major reduction in the new additions. He thought that if this was a private person and not employee
housing they would not be here.
Mr. Fornell said that they have accommodated the movement of homes for affordable housing and free
market development and the main reason was to afford the property owner the total use of their
property which is one reason he is ok with this relocation. A second reason is that it has been moved
once already. The third reason is that he is weighing community goals, one of which is the creation of
affordable housing. He disagreed with Mr. Moyer about the 8th and Main project and described some
differences between the historic resource and new additions on that property. He then stated he was
satisfied with the scale and proportion of option B as proposed by the applicant.
REGULAR MEETING HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION NOVEMBER 16TH, 2022
Ms. Surfas stated that she supports affordable housing and lives in high density housing, but that she
was not on HPC to approve and bend rules for affordable housing. She said that is what it feels like is
happening. She felt that they are being asked to bend the guidelines that have been created to protect
our town. She felt the mass and scale of the new structures are laughable. She said it needs to be
restudied and if a few units are lost, that’s what needs to be done.
Mr. Halferty thanked the applicant for the refinements and their proposal to build affordable housing.
He stated that HPC’s purview is to preserve not just the historic resource but also the historic lot and
district. He appreciated the revisions to the western structure but still thought it was too tall and too
massive. In relation to guidelines 11.3 and 11.4 it is still challenging to what it does to the historic
resource. He agreed with other members comments. He said that the reduction of one room in the
revisions was commendable, but that more could be taken off. He said it was mainly the size of the third
story that was challenging with the steep roofs and that the context shown from Main Street was
helpful, but at the same time it is the Mixed-Use district and not the Residential or Commercial Core. He
made additional comments about the open space, rain gardens and shading between the structures. He
stated that he could support this project as it has merits, but still thought it needs to get smaller to
better comply with guidelines 11.3 and 11.4.
Ms. Thompson asked Ms. Johnson if it would be appropriate for Ms. Pitchford to participate in the
discussion seeing that she was not present for the presentations. Ms. Johnson said it would not be
appropriate for her to vote on this project, but she could stay and listen to the rest of the discussion.
Ms. Thompson said she appreciated the revisions and agreed with Mr. Fornell about proposed option B.
She also thought that it was important that the second story ridgeline not go above the ridgeline of the
historic resource as it speaks to 11.4. She mentioned that she did not hear on the board a majority to
move forward and wanted to discuss how to give better feedback to the applicant. She agreed with Ms.
Surfas that this project is probably given special priority with staff given City Council’s direction
regarding affordable housing. She went over some suggestions she heard from members about reducing
that mass and scale and asked if there were any more suggestions.
Mr. Moyer said it was pretty simple. When he looked at the interior spaces, he thought they were
ridiculously small, and the storage was very limited. He suggested to reduce the number of rooms and
the overall project and then they would meet the guidelines. He said it would not work by just shuffling
a roof line or removing a room and again said just reduce the overall size.
Mr. Fornell commented on Mr. Moyer’s statement about the size of the units, stating that APCHA
provides for a reduction in their recommended unit size contingent on several factors that the applicant
has responded to. He said he has seen several affordable housing units that are smaller than what is
being proposed. He then asked Ms. Thompson to clarify which ridgeline she was referring to on the
addition that she thought should match the historic. Ms. Thompson said the ridgeline on the addition to
the west of the historic resource. Mr. Fornell then asked Ms. Surfas what rules she thought they were
bending. Ms. Surfas responded saying she thought they were being asked to not look at this in the same
way they look at a private residence because it’s affordable housing. Regarding guideline 11.3, she did
not know how someone could look at the new building and say it was in similar proportion or scale to
the historic resource. She said maybe it’s not bending the rules, but that they are being asked to have
double standards.
REGULAR MEETING HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION NOVEMBER 16TH, 2022
Ms. Thompson said she understood Ms. Surfas’ perspective but thought it was different in this case
since the new additions are not touching the resource where in private residences they are typically
touching and made more to look like one building. That is why she was not as opposed to the massing
here as the rest of the board.
Mr. Fornell asked the applicant about the unit that was set back and reduced from a two to a one
bedroom. He asked if it was reduced further to a studio, would that get them to the 1:1 floor area ratio.
Mr. Clauson said yes. Mr. Fornell then asked if the ridgeline height of the western addition could be
reduced without reducing the number of bedrooms and employees housed. Mr. Clauson said it would
amount to a one-foot reduction in ridgeline height and was doable without losing bedrooms. Mr.
Clauson also said they would very much like to see an approval at this meeting and then work with staff
and monitor and would accept a condition of approval to lower the ridgeline of the front portion. He
said they were not bending the rules, that they were working within the rules and that every parameter
has been met. He said there was a clear mandate in the Land Use Code to provide additional
opportunities for affordable housing that would not be afforded to a private residence. He stated that
there is a difference between the Main St. Historic and Mixed-Use districts and that of the Residential
district.
MOTION: Mr. Fornell motioned to approve the next resolution in the series with two conditions.
Condition #1, to use proposed option B and further reduce the size of that unit so long as that gets the
project underneath the 1:1 floor area ratio, removing that Special Review request. Condition #2, to
provide a design before Final review that moves the ridgeline height on the western addition down to at
least the height of the historic asset. Ms. Thompson seconded the motion.
Ms. Thompson asked Ms. Simon if the new structures were considered additions. Ms. Simon said no, it is
considered a new structure on a landmarked lot, so there are different guidelines that apply. It also
greatly influences the applicable guidelines when it comes to the compatibility between the two
buildings and the fact that the new structure is not touching the historic resource is a victory in the
historic preservation program. She said that they are certainly not bending the rules but understood
that people had different perspectives about it.
Mr. Halferty said the motion was close, but he could not support it.
Ms. Surfas said she would not support the motion and the project needed to be restudied. She also
wanted to state for the record that she did not think the applicant was bending the rules, but rather that
staff was asking them to finesse how things are done.
Mr. Moyer said that he made a mistake in supporting staff on the 8th and Main project and thought HPC
blew it in approving it. He did not want to see that happen here.
Roll call vote: Mr. Fornell, yes; Mr. Moyer, no; Ms. Surfas, no; Mr. Halferty, no; Ms. Thompson, yes. 2-3,
motion does not pass.
Mr. Fornell then motioned to continue to a subsequent meeting. Ms. Thompson seconded.
There was then some discussion trying to provide some direction to the applicant.
Mr. Fornell amended his motion to continue the meeting to December 14th. Ms. Thompson seconded.
REGULAR MEETING HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION NOVEMBER 16TH, 2022
Roll call vote: Mr. Fornell, yes; Mr. Moyer, yes; Ms. Surfas, yes; Mr. Halferty, yes; Ms. Thompson, yes. 5-
0, motion passes.
ADJOURN: Ms. Thompson motioned to adjourn the regular meeting. Mr. Moyer seconded. All in favor;
motion passes.
____________________
Mike Sear, Deputy City Clerk