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HomeMy WebLinkAboutcoa.cclc.ag.102214 COMMERCIAL CORE & LODGING COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING SISTER CITIES MEETING ROOM October 22, 2014 8:30 A.M. 8:30 I. Roll call and approval of minutes— September 17, 2014 minutes. II. Public Comments not on the agenda (please limit your comments to 3 minutes) III. Hyman Mall— space allocations IV. Market Update V. Adjourn Kathy Strickland From: Aspen TShirt Co <atc @obosent.com> Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2014 1:19 PM To: Kathy Strickland Subject: Mall spaces Hi Kathy! Jim Pomeroy said you would be the person to email with comments regarding the restaurant leases on the mall. I sent in my comment card but also wanted to follow that up with some direct contact. Let me start by saying that I do like having the patio dining in the summer. It adds so much life to the downtown core on summer nights and our guests appreciate all the options for outdoor food and beverages. I'd like to say that I think the restaurants are getting a bargain and a half when it comes to how much they are paying per square foot on these spaces if the$30ish per square foot I've heard is correct. I feel like the space commands at least $50ish per square foot considering that commercial space in the core can command over$100 per square foot. I also very strongly feel that the spaces should be require to be open 7 days a week. One of the restaurants this summer (Finnbarr) chose to not set up their mall seating Mondays through Thursdays, leaving the tables and chairs stacked up and wired together, looking very un-inviting. I would also like to see them required to be open for both lunch AND dinner Friday through Sunday but I know that's not as realistic. My final thought would be about how much square footage restaurants are given and how dense the table seating is in that space. Hops leased a very large amount of space even though they already have street level seating. Since they already have an option for guest to seat outside just by their entrance, I feel they received too much space in the center of the mall. Personally, I think it would be a nicer distribution of the space to offer it mainly to restaurants that are only in basement setting (perhaps Zocalito would have been interested). Also, the picnic tables that Hops chose to place in the space were packed so tightly together that it was crowded and visually unappealing. I would like to see required walking space between each table used. Thanks for listening to my thoughts. Representing two retail locations on the mall (Aspen Tshirt Company and Art Tee Gallery), I appreciate the town taking time to consider the opinions of merchants that are close to the restaurant spaces. Lisa LeMay Area Manager-O'Bos Enterprises, LLC 1 Barry M. Panter,MD The Gant 610 South West End Street G101 Aspen, CO 81611 1"S aol com 818 298 6432 CCLC City Hall Aspen, CO 81611 September 13, 2014 Dear Members of CCLC I hope that you will cut back or eliminate the outside dining on Hyman Street. It is too crowded and too noisy. I suggest you also do not allow the restaurants to blare music. I don't like the music they play. It's too loud,and during the summer it prevents the students playing. My wife and I avoid strolling on Hyman Street.We stroll on Cooper Street instead. We are concerned about maintaining the charm of Aspen.We don't want it to become too commercialized and crass. We own two condos at The Gant Sincerely, Barry M. Panter,MD v v Commercial Core & Lodging Commission Minutes of September 17, 2014 Vice-Chair, Riley Tippet called the meeting to order at 8:30 a.m. Commissioners in attendance were: Don Sheeley,Terry Butler, Fred Ayarza, Kiki Raj and Siam Castillo. Bill Dinsmoor was absent. Staff. Linda Manning, City Clerk Dan Nelson, Parks Superintendent Comments: Dan Nelson said they are gearing up for the flower removal. The seasonal staff ends this week. Halloween is when the bike racks are taken out. Rugger fest is this week at the Rio Grande Park. Wagner Park is almost done with infrastructure installation. Next they will seed the park and the turf tarps will come out. Terry said she ran into the gardeners this morning and the flowers have never looked better. Terry recommended they not be taken down yet. Dan said he can wait till they freeze and then take them out. Liquidation sales Adam Frisch, Councilmember, Albert Sanford from Gallerie Maximillian and Donald Stone. Donald said the concern is the zip in and out businesses that pop up at hotels and the ice garden. These are valuable to the lodging and restaurants but there needs to be a balance for the same businesses in town to survive. The Saturday Market has turned into a huge success but there was a concern at the start that it would steal local business. It is a great boom and everyone is winning. These pop up businesses are competing with local businesses. Albert said in the last five years there has been a proliferation of outside businesses that range from seized assets and ads run repeatedly in the paper. One company came 16 times a year and only during high season. They are skimming the cream off the top. The advertising is misleading and the ads are stock ads. Merchandise that is being advertised is generally not available during the sale. These are not real auctions. The problem is they have set up shop without bearing the expense of a 12 month a year business. They do not employ anyone from our community. Sales tax is questionable and 11 Page Commercial Core & Lodging Commission - - - - - - - Minutes of September 17, 2014 dubious. Last February a new auction company called `Revolver' broke the sign code and hired a group of young people to distribute booklets to hotels. These things are drawing business away from the commercial core. They park their vans in front of galleries and stores. The Art and Antique fair is sanctioned by the City because the City is the landlord of the Ice Garden. For $30,000 they come to Aspen for July 4th and compete with local businesses. They have a mailing list now and they are doing full page newspaper ads. Donald did zero business July 4th week. Adam said if it was a special event, which this is not there is a question about hurting local businesses. We have control of the Ice Garden but cannot tell the St. Regis they can't do this. The question is can they legally operate these businesses out of the hotels. There is also the issue of sales tax. The Finance Dept. is happy to check on the sales tax issue. Fred said he understands the concerns. Albert said there is the art and antique show and now a contemporary show the week of art crush. I have lived here full time for 18 years. Aspen has a hard time keeping the pendulum in the middle. Town was crazy this summer and we had no parking. Vitality is great but at a certain point you can overdo it. These businesses are OK once in a while. The issue is the city needs to analyze what is the benefit of these businesses to the community and what do they provide. Are they contributing to local charities? It is getting out of hand. Don asked if they have talked to the ACRA and what would be their solution. Albert said we need to limit these activities. Adam suggested they come to the CCLC as it is worth a discussion but he is not sure what the resolution is. Is there a problem and is it something that can be solved and can the City do something. Terry said she is hearing what Albert is saying. There ought to be some stumbling blocks to make it more difficult for these people to come into town. Fred said we need to find out first what can be done. 21 Page Commercial Core & Lodging Commission Minutes of September 17, 2014 Albert said it is not possible to prevent these businesses from coming into town but do they need to be here over the 4th of July and over Christmas. We could regulate the dates that they could come. Fred said he agrees with Albert. Siam also said she can see where Albert is coming from. We don't know legally how we can regulate when they come to town. Riley said our role becomes an information gathering to pass to the Finance and City Council. You are correct spreading this to as many different organizations and commissions as possible. Adam said we may be able to do something with new development. Kiki asked if there was a way to put all these businesses under the same umbrella. Riley said this might be a question for business licenses. Albert said historically trunk shows have occurred at the hotels. Terry pointed out that the businesses that have survived are hanging on by their fingernails. Hyman Mall Discussion Adam Frisch said one of Council's ten goals is the infrastructure on the malls. The Parks's Dept. decided to take it off the table since more work on the malls needs done. We like the fact that the middle of Hyman is restaurants and hopefully the rent is increased to market value. Riley said at the last meeting we outlined 3 things to tackle for next year: Density — What does that look and feel like. What should experience for visitors look like and what is appropriate. Guidelines - We need guidelines for tables, chairs, lighting, umbrellas. Economics —How to determine a fair market rate for outdoor leases. Other businesses pay higher for an outdoor space. 31 Page Commercial Core & Lodging Commission Minutes of September 17, 2014 Riley said today's discussion is density. We need to gain insight on density and how it should look like and what should the guidelines be. People on the mall are now complying and doing what they were told to do. Scott McKinney— Hops Restaurant - Scott said Hops needs to increase the walkway access for guests in town. Currently walking through where people eat can be a hazard. Each restaurant should have to have an access space. One access point for each restaurant. Brian Douglas, White House Tavern — When walking through the mall there is not a natural point for crossing because it is boarded by the irrigation ditch. It does not make sense to limit the access of pedestrians. You need to most direct route but that involves crossing the ditch. Riley said the mall is being redeveloped at some point and there is an opportunity to look at this going forward. Terry said we need a formula that works for the square footage for next summer. Scott McKinney said you need to build a bridge to access the other side and Hops can shift down. There should be pathways from both sides. Andrew Sandler said you can't cure people running into these businesses. Riley said retailers are complaining that people on one side of the mall can't cross to get to their shops. Ryan Chadwick suggested CCLC ask the retailers on Cooper what they think of the vitality on Hyman. Andrew Sandler said the mall isn't that big and why is it such a concern to walk around. Riley said we need to address the look and feel of the mall. Ryan Sweeney said it is important to set up tables and chairs each morning. Let the public use them when the business is not open instead of it looking like a storage facility. It should look nice all day. They should close everything up at the end of the day. Scott McKinney asked what the liability is if something gets damaged with the stacked tables and chairs. 41 Page Commercial Core & Lodging Commission Minutes of September 17, 2014 Gretchen Leary from Acquolina —Regarding curb side patio situations it is an issue when it comes to parking with people opening doors and it is tacky looking. The area becomes a narrow path. Riley said curbside seating adjacent to parking is not appropriate. Jr from Mezzaluna agreed. Gretchen said places that already have patio space should just have that space. It is starting to look junky. Brian Douglas from White House Tavern said they do not take advantage of curb side dining. Those businesses chose those spaces before any of this took effect. It is not worth the economic damage that would be caused by eliminating this dining. The traffic through Hopkins is not high enough. Rob Ittner from Rustique — The one year lease is not guaranteed but the business has to do due diligence and understand that it is a one year contract. Ryan Chadwick, Escobar—Ryan said vitality is a good thing. There seems to be too much density. We submitted our plans and the CCLC approved them. If you approve it we'll do it. Gretchen suggested a cap on the amount of seats per patio per area. Riley said 20 to 30 seats is the minimum needed to make sense. Rob Ittner said it is a good idea to use the frontage directly outside the building only. Andrew Sandler said it is a slippery slope when you start regulating seating. Kiki pointed out that this is different than the free market. They are paying for what the city dictates. Ryan Chadwick said the Ice Bar makes no money but it gets the Aspen name out there. Riley asked if there is a happy medium to create a good environment. Brian Douglas said the CCLC ultimately has the ability to deny seating plans. Riley said we would need a metric to deny. 51 Page Commercial Core & Lodging Commission Minutes of September 17, 2014 Rob Ittner also said you need a guideline that you can defend. Creating vitality is not about density. Don Sheeley asked what the existing problem is. Riley said there are several issues with pedestrian access. There is too much seating. Fred said there is a problem. The density is unacceptable. There are ways to create more access. I see a lot of tables not being used. The issues can be resolved. Terry said she lives on the corner of the mall. The sofa seating and bar at Escobar are always full. The tables not so much. Finbarr's is less full than last year. Hops is full most of the time. It does seem that we can condense. Fred said the benches should not be used for restaurant space. They should be used for public use. Ryan said they leave their area open all day for people to sit down. Riley asked how do you determine if something is too dense. Andrew Sandler said people want to walk down the middle of the mall. Rob Ittner said you need to determine the reasonable amount of leased public space to provide for restaurant space. What is the right amount of square footage leased by the City. The mall should be opened up more than it is today. You need a short term and long term solution. Riley said there is seating at both ends for the public and walkways will create designated space for the restaurants. Terry said the goal is to create vitality. We need a short term solution before the mall is reworked. We need to control the amount of linear footage and let restaurants decide density within. Fred agreed with leasing less footage on the mall. Leasing less footage doesn't mean we are regulating seating. Jr from Mezzaluna said the leases should be longer possibly 4 years. Riley said that idea has come up before. The next meeting is to determine who gets space and how. 61 Page Commercial Core & Lodging Commission Minutes of September 17, 2014 Brian Douglas said the walkways will determine the leasing space. We are curious how the rent is determined. Don said Hops does need a walkway. Kiki said there were complaints about Finbarr's. Commissioner comments: Fred said the Saturday Market looks much better with the spaces filled in front of Little Annie's. Lots of patrons like Jean Roberts 3D machine. Siam said she isn't sure when she is leaving. She would like to become the alternate. MOTION: Terry moved to approve Siam as the alternate member and Fred will be the full time member. Motion second by Kiki. All in favor, motion carried. MOTION: Riley moved to adjourn, second by Don. All in favor, motion carried. Meeting adjourned at 10:00 a.m. Kathleen J. Strickland, Chief Deputy Clerk 71 Page