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HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.hpc.20240724REGULAR MEETING HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION JULY 24TH, 2024 Chairperson Thompson opened the regular meeting of the Aspen Historic Preservation Commission at 4:30pm. Commissioners in attendance: Roger Moyer, Kim Raymond, Barb Pitchford, Peter Fornell, Jodi Surfas, Riley Warwick and Kara Thompson. Absent was Jeffrey Halferty. Mr. Charlie Tarver noted that he did not confirm attendance. He said that he was recently appointed by City Council to the Planning & Zoning Commission and since he cannot sit on two commissions at once, he was officially resigning from HPC. He left the table and sat in the audience. Jodi Surfas and Riley Warwick arrived at 4:32pm. Staff present: Stuart Hayden, Planner - Historic Preservation Ben Anderson, Community Development Director Luisa Berne, Assistant City Attorney Mike Sear, Deputy City Clerk MINUTES: None PUBLIC COMMENTS: Mr. David Scruggs handed out copies of an email exchange between Ms. Thompson and Mr. Hayden that he had obtained through a CORA request. He said that it produced evidence that the west addition at 205 West Main St. was actually historic, in contrast to the applicant’s claim that it was not. He noted that, in the email exchange, Ms. Thompson noted that if the addition was indeed historic it would need to remain. Mr. Scruggs noted that the new expedited approval process does not allow for the destruction of any historic portions of the resource. He believed the applicant should amended their application to retract their demolition of the addition and show how they are to restore the entirety of the historic resource. Ms. Thompson stated that it was Mr. Hayden that found the information. Mr. Fornell asked if the property owner had been notified, to which Mr. Hayden answered yes. Mr. Hayden noted that he and Ms. Raymond, acting as the monitor, completed a site visit and that applicant team had been very accommodating with the investigation. He also noted that assistant City Attorney, Kate Johnson was also working on the legal implications. Knowing that Ms. Johnson was not present, Ms. Thompson requested that she give the board an update at the next meeting. COMMISSION MEMBER COMMENTS: Ms. Thompson wanted to remind staff and applicants of the presentation timeframes as outlined in the agenda. Referencing a recent newspaper article about who owns various buildings in town, Mr. Moyer thought that HPC should ask the City to take a hard look at how long these projects sit. He thought it ridiculous that projects end up sitting for five, six, seven years. Ms. Pitchford agreed with Mr. Moyer and commented on the current state of the Boomerang Lodge and the amount of various things being stored on the site. She considered the property derelict now. Like Mr. Moyer, she agreed that there was more that could be done. REGULAR MEETING HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION JULY 24TH, 2024 Mr. Hayden noted that the property owners had submitted for permits as part of their ongoing repairs to the site. He noted that some of the items stored on the site may be in the right of way and encouraged members to report anything that had been there for a while to the City’s 311 app. DISCLOSURE OF CONFLICTS OF INTEREST: None PROJECT MONITORING: None. STAFF COMMENTS: None. CERTIFICATE OF NO NEGATIVE EFFECT: None CALL UP REPORTS: None SUBMIT PUBLIC NOTICE FOR AGENDA ITEMS: Ms. Berne confirmed that public notice was completed in compliance with the Code as needed for the two agenda items. SUBSTANTIAL AMENDMENT: 420 E. Cooper Ave. - Substantial Amendment - Public Hearing Applicant Presentation: Mr. Chris Bendon – Bendon Adams / Charles Cunniffe – Charles Cunniffe Architecture Mr. Bendon began by noting that there was a project monitoring request submitted in May and that they wanted to discuss the structural repairs that need to be addressed to be able to execute on the approvals. He then went over some of the history of the building and background of the project and the previous approvals. These included a 2019 minor development to join the upper floors of 420 and 418. In this, HPC approved new openings in the east and west party walls of the Red Onion as well as mechanical equipment locations. He described the locations of the approved openings on the 2019 site plan. He also noted a 2023 amendment to change the openings on the east and west walls and relocating mechanical equipment due to sound issues. He noted that these were the openings that they discussed at the site visit. He said that they now have a better understanding of the condition of the brick walls and realize they need to redefine the structural load calculations to keep the building upright. Mr. Cunniffe went over the reasoning for their request noting the condition of the roof rafters and that they are inadequate under current standards. In order to introduce additional structural elements, it was suggested to slide new LVL beams in from the side. Mr. Cunniffe said that this would require the removal of small portions of the brick walls, sliding in the new LVLs and then replacing the bricks. He also described the need to remove additional brick above the two large openings between the two spaces to install a lintel to support the brick wall above. This would also include replacing the removed brick. He noted that in these two processes there would be some of the brick that would not be worth saving and that they plan to reuse some of the historic brick that was removed in creating the openings to replace the unusable brick. He noted that they would like to express as much of the historic brick as possible in the new space. Mr. Bendon then went over the relative historic preservation guidelines that apply here and stated that they believe that they have been met. REGULAR MEETING HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION JULY 24TH, 2024 Mr. Moyer asked who the contractor was. Mr. Cunniffe said that it was Whiting Turner. Mr. Moyer then asked if someone with that firm had their Historic Preservation BEST Card. Mr. Cunniffe said he did not know one way or the other as he was just the architect on the project and not the contractor. Mr. Moyer then asked if progress was being held up due to the construction issues. Mr. Cunniffe said that it had held up his portion of the work. Mr. Moyer asked if the roof trusses were only being held up by the existing brick wall. Mr. Cunniffe confirmed that. Mr. Moyer asked if the lintels would be supported by the brick walls. Mr. Cunniffe said they would have some additional support as well as the wall. Ms. Raymond asked if the entire area of brick highlighted on the site plan above the two openings would be removed to install the lintels and LVLs. Mr. Cunniffe said yes, but the idea would be to replace the brick so that someone would not know it was done. Ms. Thompson asked if they had researched a matching new brick if they needed to replace removed historic brick with new. Mr. Cunniffe said they should have enough historic brick from the creation of the approved openings to replace any damaged pieces. In the worst case scenario, he said they would source matching brick. Ms. Pitchford asked for clarification of some language in the staff memo that seemed to state that 348 square feet of historic brick would be removed and replaced and that that would be against the preservation guidelines. She agreed that it might be a better question for Mr. Hayden. Staff Presentation: Stuart Hayden - Planner - Historic Preservation Mr. Hayden began by stating that when he wrote the staff memo it was his understanding that the applicant was planning to remove and replace the historic brick and that at the site visit, he was surprised to learn that their intention was to remove and reuse the brick. He noted that that is more in line with the preservation guidelines. He started his presentation by asking the board to ask the applicant for clarity regarding the historic rafters. He noted that the drawings represented by the applicant here show them being removed and the application materials they provided before the deadline showed them being preserved. Mr. Cunniffe stated that the existing structure including the bottom cord of the truss would remain and that they are just supplementing with additional support. Mr. Hayden said that they are mainly looking at historic design guideline 2.1 calling for the preservation of historic materials. He noted that staff believes that selective disassembly and reassembly of the brick in order to install the new roof joists meets the guideline. He did point out a specific bullet point in that guideline that suggests the removal of such a large portion of material is inappropriate and he wanted the board to discuss it. He detailed this bullet point and staff’s concerns of whether the proposed rebuilding of that portion of the wall constitute a large portion. Mr. Hayden stated that staff recommends approval with conditions effectively allowing the selective removal of brick to install the new joists. He said that staff wants to ensure that the brick is reused, and as little new brick is introduced. Mr. Fornell asked that when the bricks are removed if they would be inventoried to ensure they are the same ones that would be reused. Mr. Hayden said that could be added as a condition for staff and monitor review but that from the applicant’s handling of the historic pedestrian pavers, he was confident in the same level of care be taken with the brick. REGULAR MEETING HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION JULY 24TH, 2024 Mr. Moyer asked if Mr. Hayden and the monitor on the project felt this request was more than they wanted to take on and thought to bring it to HPC. Mr. Hayden said that prior to updates that were included in the application the original insubstantial amendment was denied. He said that may have been due to a misunderstanding of what the applicants were actually proposing. Mr. Moyer went back to his past question about someone on site having the historic preservation BEST card. He felt it very unprofessional that whoever held the BEST card was not present at the site visit. Mr. Hayden noted that he had checked the list of historic BEST card holders and that there was presumably two current members of the Whiting – Turner contracting company that hold the card. There was then some discussion about whether the wall in question was still considered exterior or if it was now considered interior. Mr. Hayden said that it has been an exterior wall, probably was an interior wall at some point and it’s somewhat both currently. He noted that when the project is complete part of it will be exterior facing and some of it will be interior. Mr. Moyer said he just wanted to be clear on this, as HPC’s purview was only exterior walls. Ms. Thompson said that this interior wall will affect the other exterior walls. Mr. Fornell asked who originally discovered that this work was outside the scope of the approvals. Mr. Hayden said that it was not clear, but that he would look into it. Ms. Pitchford asked Mr. Hayden if in fact he was mistaken in the staff memo that the applicant’s intention was to remove the brick and replace it with new material. Mr. Hayden said that in the applicant’s written description of the proposed work it suggested to him that they were proposing to replace the brick with new. He said that his understanding now is that they intend to disassemble the wall and reassemble it using the historic brick once the joists are installed. Public Comment: Mr. Charlie Tarver commented that clarity of questions was important yet often overlooked. He noted that communicating what someone says should put that exact image in someone’s head. He thought the HPC board needed to work on clarity of statements. Board Discussion: Mr. Warwick wanted to clarify that this proposal and resulting conversation were mostly about the structural integrity of the walls. Ms. Thompson said yes. She also noted that since the roof trusses were historic and could not be removed the applicant is proposing to sister new joists in. Also, if HPC had not approved the creation of the new wall openings the applicant would not have to do this work. Mr. Fornell appreciated that it came back to HPC if staff and monitor were unsure. Ms. Thompson stated that she supported the method of the roof rafter installation as the appropriate way to do this. The rest of the members agreed. Ms. Thompson thought the removal of brick to install the steel lintels above the wall openings was a bit of a grey area, but also thought it was the appropriate method to make sure the building will last. Mr. Moyer said he was surprised that the applicant did not stress that removing the bricks above the wall openings and rebuilding them would make the building stronger. Ms. Thompson and other members said they heard the applicant say that at the site visit. Mr. Moyer thought it was a wise thing to do. The other members agreed. REGULAR MEETING HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION JULY 24TH, 2024 Ms. Raymond appreciated the applicant coming to the HPC board with these proposals as well as for honoring the Red Onion by showcasing the historic brick on the inside and taking the care they have proposed in the disassembly and reassembly of the brick. MOTION: Ms. Thompson moved to approve the next resolution in the series with the following revisions. Condition #1 shall read “all historic brick that is removed shall be replaced with historic brick unless irreparably damaged.” Condition #2 shall read "Installation of the heretofore partially installed new roof joists is to be completed in accordance with the process herein approved for the north end of the east wall and the south end of the west wall using similar brick salvaged from elsewhere on the historic resource”. Condition #3 to read “All new brick shall be submitted to the project monitoring committee for review”. Condition #4 to read “all historic brick that is removed shall be stored appropriately according to recommendation of the brick specialist”. Mr. Fornell seconded. Roll call vote: Mr. Fornell, yes; Mr. Moyer, yes; Ms. Surfas, yes; Ms. Pitchford, yes; Ms. Raymond, yes; Mr. Warwick, yes; Ms. Thompson, yes. 7-0 vote, motion passes. Mr. Moyer asked the applicant if this process was helpful. Mr. Bendon said that in working on many projects in town, things come up that are not expected, especially on downtown historic buildings. He acknowledged that staff had moved this item in front of HPC as quickly as they could and were very respectful of the ongoing work Ms. Raymond was assigned as a second monitor on this project. NEW BUSINESS: 120 E. Main St. - AspenModern Historic Designation and Benefits, Conceptual Major Development, Transferable Development Rights (TDRs), Major Subdivision, Planned Development, Special Review, and Growth Management Review - PUBLIC HEARING Applicant Presentation: Jessica Garrow – Design Workshop & Richard Shaw Mr. Shaw introduced himself as a partner of the partnership created to own the building. He started by going over the history of the building and noted that the partnership had owned the building since they bought it from Pitkin County 30 years ago. He then went over their requests including the voluntary AspenModern designation of the building and parcel. He stated that the building is about 8,000 square feet and that there still remained a significant amount of developable potential on the property. He then listed additional topics of discussion, including some of the benefits that go along with the designation, some minor modifications to the building and the proposal to construct residential housing on the rear lot. He briefly described the AspenModern program and the building’s historic significance, noting that it was designed by Fritz Benedict and Herbert Bayer. He then described some of the significant architectural features of the building and the importance of Mr. Benedict and Mr. Bayer to Aspen. He continued describing the history of the building once it was finished and occupied. He moved on by listing the five areas in which designation can be sought and applied for. Ms. Garrow went through the setting of the building and its importance within the City. She also described a few of the surrounding properties. She then went over the few minor modifications that had occurred to the building since it was built in 1966. She then described the AspenModern program and highlighted how this property met the designation criteria. Next Ms. Garrow noted that the designation of this property would include the removal of significant development pressure on the historic resource and that they are proposing some minor modifications REGULAR MEETING HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION JULY 24TH, 2024 and repairs in-place using historic materials whenever possible. She went over the three benefits they are requesting in exchange for the designation. The first was some variation benefits to install some mechanical equipment on the roof for a future restaurant use and a setback variance to ensure the new development is pushed as far away for the resource as possible. They would also like to continue the memorialization of the stacked parking. Ms. Garrow moved onto the economic benefits they are requesting with the designation. She noted that they are requesting 10 TDRs be granted, representing the removal of 2500 square feet of development from the property in perpetuity. They are also proposing two small free market residential units detached from the historic resource and located on the rear lot. They are also requesting fee waivers, 10 years of vested rights and a six-month rescission period, noting that there was only one month left in the designation negotiating timeframe. She mentioned that these benefits are typical and have been granted to other properties. Ms. Garrow then showed the various elevations of the building and described some of the proposed modifications, including reconfiguring a non-historic deck off the rear of the building and the location of future roof top mechanical equipment. She pointed out the location of the existing light well and noted that they are proposing to add a second one. She noted that once the two lots are combined per their proposal the entire parcel would be historically designated and that HPC would have purview over the historic resource as well as the development in the rear. Ms. Garrow continued by reviewing the Growth Management implications of the proposed new development in the rear of the property. She detailed the size of the two proposed units and noted that they are requesting a cash-in-lieu payment for the required mitigation be permitted. She continued by describing the design of the proposed rear building referencing the historic guidelines that call for the new construction to relate to two of three aspects of the historic resource. She noted that the building design relates to the form and fenestration of the historic resource. The roof pitch of the new building matches that of the historic as well as the design of the windows. She showed a few elevations of the new building to highlight this. She also noted that they are proposing nine parking spaces which meets the code requirement. Mr. Shaw concluded by saying that they, as owners, through the voluntary designation, are committing to not changing the historic resource without reviews, not expanding the resource on the site and to forever change the flexibility of the owner to develop the parcel. He noted that in exchange they are requesting the benefits that they had listed in the application and detailed in their presentation. He referenced the two resolutions in the packet and noted that they are quite different. He acknowledged staff’s responsibility as the Community Development arm of the City, but as owners, he felt the application and benefits requested were well thought out and in balance with what is being provided in the voluntary designation and historic preservation. Mr. Warwick asked if there was any below grade space proposed for the new residential structure. Mr. Shaw said it was all above grade. Mr. Warwick asked for clarity on the proposed parking spaces as the application proposes nine, but it then counts out 10. Ms. Garrow said it was originally 10 spaces, but after referral comments from the Building Department, they reduced it to nine. Ms. Raymond asked Ms. Garrow to show the site plan again and asked about the four stacked parking spaces. Ms. Garrow showed the site plan and said the four stacked spaces were an existing condition on the property. REGULAR MEETING HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION JULY 24TH, 2024 Ms. Surfas asked about the proposed potential for a restaurant space. Mr. Shaw said the reason they are asking for the mechanical systems on the roof is so that a restaurant could be a tenant in the future. Mr. Moyer asked if they had purchased both lots at the same time. Mr. Shaw said the front lot was purchased in 1992 and the rear lot was purchased in 1993. Ms. Raymond asked about the trash and recycling area and noted that it was well under the required amount of square footage. Ms. Garrow said the application was updated and now they are only slightly under the required amount. Ms. Raymond asked if they had started the civil engineering process to deal with snow retention. Mr. Shaw said that they had done a stormwater plan addressing the stormwater runoff and snow removal. Ms. Raymond then asked how tall the existing building was in comparison to the proposed three-story new residential development. Mr. Shaw said the new development was designed for the height limit of 28 feet and the existing building is 19.5 feet. Ms. Raymond then asked if they had tried to place the mechanical equipment anywhere else, as she believed it would be visible from Main Street. Mr. Shaw described the other locations they had looked at and why the one they chose was the most appropriate. There was some discussion about the current heating and cooling systems for the existing building. Ms. Raymond asked if they could talk more about the design of the proposed rear residential building. She said she was having a hard time seeing the relationship in fenestration to the historic building as well as how it is compatible or enhances the character of the neighborhood in relation to mass and scale of the historic building as called for in section 26.445.50 of the Municipal Code. She said the new building is very tall and skinny while the historic building is more squatty and horizontal. Ms. Thompson said she had the same questions and asked the applicant to further explain where their logic was coming from. Mr. Shaw went over their reasoning, highlighting the wood siding, similar orientation of the larger windows looking toward the mountain as well as the other smaller windows. Ms. Raymond then asked why they were requesting 10 years of vesting rights. Mr. Shaw said part of it was due to the phasing of multiple parts of the how a project might go together. These included the acquisition of future tenants, a construction schedule and restoration and rehabilitation work on the existing historic building. They felt like it was fully justified considering what the owners were giving up in the voluntary designation. Ms. Thompson asked about the applicant’s’ reasoning for the 6-month recession period. Mr. Shaw said that this process is a very quick one and as owners they need the time, after the final City Council decision, to consider what that decision entails. Ms. Surfas asked why they were prosing all this now and not at some point in the last 30 years that they owned the building. Mr. Shaw said that the ownership of Design Workshop had changed over time and that they are in a different place in their lives. He noted that Design Workshop had a new office in Basalt. Staff Presentation: Ben Anderson – Community Development Director & Stuart Hayden - Historic Preservation Planner Mr. Anderson began by going over HPC’s jurisdiction in this matter and noted that this was a recommendation to City Council. He noted that there was clear agreement from staff with much of what the applicant presented in terms of the importance of the building. He said that the focus of the staff memo was on the benefits being requested and the aggregation of them. He listed the many reviews REGULAR MEETING HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION JULY 24TH, 2024 associated with this application and noted that the designation benefits and conceptual major development were under the HPC per the Municipal Code. He noted that while staff and the applicant agree most of the criteria to be met on many of the reviews, staff does differ when it comes to the benefits requested. He pointed out the 10 TDRs requested to be generated from the commercial building by the applicant and their request to allow the development of two market rate residences in the rear of the property. He again noted that the aggregate of all the benefits being requested was a significant ask. Mr. Anderson continued by describing the TDR program and noted that it was intended and designed for residential properties. Applying them in the context of a commercial building was not imagined by the program when it was conceived. He again noted that staff felt that the request for 10 TDRs was a significant ask. He then noted that coming out of the development moratorium in 2022 was a clear statement from City Council that they did not want any new free market residential development on Main Street in the mixed-use zone district. He said that staff did not disagree with the site planning and relationship of the new building to the resource, yet the type of residential use was in clear conflict with the zone district. He then went over the site plan and noted the utilities easement between the two lots and the existing stacked parking that staff felt was ok because it has been the existing condition. He pointed out the requested rear setback variance on the site plan in relationship to the proposed new development and said that staff was generally supportive of that. In conclusion Mr. Anderson said that staff was fully supportive of the AspenModern designation and felt the lot merger was appropriate and brought some simplicity to the lot. He said staff was also in support of the use of the Planned Development which would allow the setback variance and the issuance of some amount of TDRs on the commercial property. He noted that while staff agreed that residential use may be appropriate, it should be consistent with the allowed uses in the zone district, and they believed it should be deed-restricted affordable housing which could include Resident Occupied as opposed to category units. He said that staff did not want to preclude a restaurant use in the resource, but felt it was premature to discuss the landing place of mechanical equipment at this time. He noted that if affordable housing rather than free market was recommended by HPC, staff fully supports the other miscellaneous benefit requests, including the fee waivers and the alternate mitigation payment request. If free market was recommended, staff felt that in aggregate some of the requests seemed excessive due to the potential benefit of the free market use over the allowed use in the district. Mr. Hayden then touched on the conceptual development request for the residential development in the rear. He noted that it was tricky matter because it was more of a benefit request and the historic design guidelines needed to be weighed against the potential benefit to the community of the historic designation of the resource. He noted that with the historic designation the design standard criteria would move from the zone district design guidelines to the historic preservation design guidelines which are a little stricter. Mr. Fornell asked Mr. Anderson if any commercial buildings had ever had TDRs pulled off of them. Mr. Anderson said that to his recollection he could not identify a project. He again noted that the TDR program had almost entirely been driven on single family and duplex residential properties. Mr. Hayden REGULAR MEETING HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION JULY 24TH, 2024 added that the code specifically says that the one of the primary uses of TDRs has to be for residential properties. Mr. Fornell then asked if a cash-in-lieu payment would be an acceptable alternative to the stacked parking. Mr. Anderson said yes, but that it was not part of the proposal and staff felt the stacked parking was appropriate based on it being an existing condition and that it can be considered under special review. Mr. Fornell asked if a fee waiver had ever been a successful part of an AspenModern designation negotiation. Mr. Anderson said yes and noted that most of the potential fees in this project would be related to the development on the rear of the property and that some would be waived by the Land Use Code if it was affordable housing. He also noted that the affordable housing mitigation payments pretty much goes away if the development was affordable. Ms. Pitchford asked if there had been any approval for residential housing development in the mixed- use zone in the past few years. Mr. Anderson said related code changes go back to 2012, when Council began to act regarding free market development in mixed-use buildings in commercial zones. Most recently in 2022 it was expanded to the mixed-use district when Council precluded new market rate or expansion of existing market rate along Main Street. He noted that affordable housing remains a permitted use as does commercial. Ms. Thompson moved to extend the meeting until 7:20pm. Mr. Fornell seconded. All in favor, motion passes. Ms. Raymond asked for clarification of what HPC is being asked of and if their jurisdiction changed since it would be going to City Council. Mr. Anderson said that this would be a recommendation and that there were two resolutions in front of them. One that represented everything the applicant was asking for and one that included staff’s proposal. He said that HPC could agree with one or the other, neither or could agree to a mix of them. He noted that the main thing that HPC would be recommending was related to the package of benefits being requested by the applicant. Public Comment: Ms. Ann Mullins commented about Fritz Benedict and noted that the building took on a personality of its own. She said that she had worked on the City’s AspenModern task force that advocated for a historic designation process similar to the existing historic Victorian non-voluntary designation program. She noted that it did not pass and since the City had lost many midcentury modern resources. She noted that in their work they identified this building as one of the best examples of the AspenModern style. She detailed Mr. Benedict’s history and work in Aspen. She urged the HPC to support the designation of this important building, but also urged the applicant and City Council to accept compromises to save this building. Ms. Thompson asked Ms. Mullins if she would approve the 10 TDRs if she was still on Council. Ms. Mullins said she may tweak it a bit and noted that she was on Council when they got rid of free market development on Main Street. Mr. Lex Tarumianz agreed with Ms. Mullins’ comments regarding Mr. Benedict’s influence on Aspen. He noted that there was precedent for TDRs related to a commercial property on Main Street at 430 West Main Street. He described the history of that property and the generation of TDRs there. He commented that the impact of the landing of potential TDRs generated with this project was minimal since the maximum square footage that can land on a single property was 500 square feet. He thought the impact REGULAR MEETING HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION JULY 24TH, 2024 would not be noticeable in the community. He said that the owners of the building created something special in town and should be rewarded for that. Mr. Charlie Tarver noted that he was a friend of Mr. Benidict and commented on the building’s importance. He noted that the proposed housing would impact him as he lived very close, and the new building would block his porch. With this in mind, he still supported the application and thought it was the right thing to do. Ms. Thompson closed the public comment. There was then some discussion about the potential process if the owners decided, without a designation, to demolish the building. Ms. Berne said that per the code, since the building was in the Main Street Historic District that type of proposal would come before HPC, but she cautioned the members not to use that as part of their decision making tonight. Board Discussion: Ms. Thompson started the discussion trying to gather a general sense of where the board members stand and noted that she may want the applicant to come back up afterwards to see what they might be amenable to. Mr. Fornell noted that pages 89 and 90 of the agenda packet listed the staff recommendations that included nine areas for conversation, and he thought they should go through them one by one. Mr. Fornell then made a motion to extend the meeting to 7:45pm. Ms. Thompson seconded. All in favor, motion passes. Ms. Thompson asked if any members did not support the application in front of them for an AspenModern Designation. The members all agreed and supported designation Mr. Fornell clarified that under the requested benefits listed, he did not support designation. Mr. Warwick noted that everyone supported designation under certain circumstances. He suggested they start with the first listed condition of the requested TDRs. Mr. Fornell felt that the 10 requested TDRs were appropriate. He did not see the difference between a commercial development and residential when they are trying to save it. Mr. Warwick also supported the 10 TDRs. He did not think it would be noticed in town when they get spread out over 5 buildings. He felt a commercial property may not have been considered when the program was initiated, and incentives need to be in place to preserve historic properties whether they were residential or commercial. Ms. Pitchford disagreed and felt that the TDR program was based on residential properties, and she was not a big fan of it. She understood the incentive of TDRs and since she loved this building and respected the people who have taken such good care of it, she was in support of the 10 TDRs. Ms. Thompson agreed with Mr. Fornell and Mr. Warwick and thought granting the TDRs was the right thing to do to preserve the structure. She was happy to recommend the 10 TDRs and have City Council discuss it further. Ms. Raymond had mixed feelings about it. She noted that if you cannot fit the maximum amount of allowable square feet on a lot, you have to somewhat forfeit it. She said 10 TDRs felt a bit excessive to her, but in the desire to save this building, she would reluctantly give them 10 TDRs. Mr. Moyer was not apposed to the 10 TDRs and thought it was really City Council’s decision. REGULAR MEETING HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION JULY 24TH, 2024 Ms. Surfas thought that there were so many other things the applicant was asking for that this had to play into it. They moved onto the request to build two free-market residential units. Mr. Fornell did not support free-market development due to all the efforts the City made during the moratorium determining that free-market development was not the highest and best use. Mr. Warwick noted that his belief was that the vacant lot was currently in the R6 zone district without the merger and was not in the Main St. mixed use zone. Because of the current zone, they could build free market there now and he thought that while they are offering voluntary designation and to merge the lots, the current zoning should be considered. Mr. Anderson noted that the back lot has a complex history and staff believe the zone district map is in error and that both lots were considered in the previously known “office zone” district that became the mixed-use district. Ms. Garrow agreed with Mr. Anderson but noted that the back lot is not in the historic district. Mr. Warwick confirmed that in his personal opinion he supported free market development regardless of what the current Code says. Ms. Thompson felt that free market development was consistent with the historical development in this neighborhood, but also understood that City Council recently changed the Code to not allow free market in this district. She stated that she would support a recommendation to Council that allowed free market development with their review, as they were the ones that changed the Code. She said that she would personally like to see affordable housing units and would like to see if the applicant is amenable to deed restricting any of those units. Ms. Raymond was not in support of free market because it is in complete conflict with the zone district. She felt the City is in dire need for affordable housing and this would be a great opportunity for it. She agreed with Mr. Fornell that the City has worked for a long time to eliminate penthouses and free market in the zone district. Mr. Moyer did not support free market development. Ms. Surfas wondered if there could be a mix of free market and deed restricted units in the building. Ms. Pitchford echoed what Ms. Mullins had said in that they have to do everything they can to get it designated. She wondered what the compromise could be. Mr. Moyer noted that this was still just a recommendation to Council and that they might think about just saying that the board had mixed opinions on this topic, and they encourage Council to make an appropriate decision in the interest of saving the resource. The board members agreed. They moved on to discuss the affordable housing mitigation. Mr. Fornell noted that if Council allows free market development, then there would be the need for mitigation. He was not in favor of a cash-in-lieu or payment over time. He felt spreading out the payments serves no purpose for the community. He noted a recent studio apartment that the City recently purchased for $1.2 million that mitigated 1.25 FTEs and that there are certificates in the market for purchase right now. The board agreed that they supported staff’s recommendation except that the mitigation not be in the form of cash-in-lieu. The next item was the waiver of fees. The board supported staff’s recommendations on this. REGULAR MEETING HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION JULY 24TH, 2024 The next item was the applicant’s request seeking a guarantee that a restaurant tenant could occupy the existing building. The board supported staff’s recommendations on this item. Ms. Thompson said she was very hesitant to allow equipment on the roof without first reviewing and knowing exactly what that equipment is. The next item dealt with the applicant’s request for 10 years of vesting rights and a rescission period of six months. Mr. Fornell referenced Mr. Moyer’s comments earlier in the meeting about all the places in town that are sitting still. He noted that State statute requires a three-year vesting right. He believed, historically speaking, that the primary reason applicants request more than three-years vesting is to get an approval from a board that valuates their real estate in order to resell it. He stressed that in no way was he accusing this applicant of that intent but had no interest in helping someone flip a lot. He said he does not support the extension of vesting rights in any application. Regarding the rescission period, he noted that if someone is not happy with the direction the historic designation negotiation process is going, you can ask for an extension and pull your application. Ms. Thompson agreed with staff’s recommendation supporting 10 years of vesting rights and a six- month rescission period if limited to deed restricted development and no more than 3-years rights for free market. She noted that extending vesting rights is something this board has granted for many AspenModern project that they have reviewed, and she could see extending it to five years if it is free market as 10 years seemed like a lot. Ms. Pitchford agreed. Ms. Raymond also agreed that 10 years was a little excessive as no one knows what the Code may be in 10 years. She supported the compromise of five years. While noting that this building is worth a lot to the community, she did think the aggregate of what the applicant was asking for was a lot as well. She wondered why it would take 10 years. Ms. Thompson asked the members if they would be ok with 10 years if it was affordable housing. The majority of members did not support that idea. The board agreed to recommend a five-year vesting period no matter what way the development went. As for the requested rescission period the board was mostly in agreement to support it. Mr. Fornell again commented that if they get an approval, they don’t want they can choose not to use it and if they don’t like how things are going, they could always pull their application. The board then agreed that they were of a mixed opinion on rescission portion of this item. The next item was the Planned Development (PD) request. Mr. Fornell noted that one needs at least 15,000 square feet to apply for a PD. He thought that in requesting a PD they were asking for setback variances for a non-permitted use. Because of that, he did not support the request of a PD. He felt if setback variances were requested related to an affordable housing development down the road, they could still address that then. Ms. Raymond asked Mr. Anderson what the implications would be if a PD was not granted. Mr. Anderson noted that the Code allows the Community Development Director some flexibility on a PD if the minimum lot size is not met. He also noted that setbacks are more easily dealt with under a PD as well as the PD giving some flexibility on the TDRs. He said that without the PD, there would not be a guarantee of the variance and if there is a decision to grant the TDRs, you would be asking to do something that is not allowed in the Land Use Code. REGULAR MEETING HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION JULY 24TH, 2024 Mr. Warwick suggested that they recommend the PD as needed depending on Council’s ultimate decisions. He noted that the PD is really connected to and latched on to a couple of the other provisions. The board agreed. The next item dealt with the Subdivision request. The board was all in agreement and supported the subdivision. The next item was the Parking & Transportation Special Review. Ms. Thompson supported it. Mr. Fornell preferred to see the applicant pay for two cash-in-lieu spaces opposed to the stacked spaces. Mr. Moyer noted that the stacked spaces had been there for a very long time and had never been an issue. Overall, the board was in support of staff’s recommendation for the Parking & Transportation Special Review. Ms. Thompson wanted to voice that she was not in agreement with the proposed form and fenestration of the new construction. She felt it could be resolved but did not agree with the applicant’s form or fenestration argument. She noted that while this was in part a recommendation to City Council on the previously discussed items, it was also a conceptual approval of the new construction in the rear of the property. Ms. Raymond said that if that was the case she also disagreed with the form and fenestration of the new construction. Ms. Thompson moved to extend the meeting to 8:00pm. Mr. Fornell seconded. All in favor, motion passes. The board wondered what the best way to deal with these separately. Mr. Warwick asked if they could just include something in their recommendation that they did not support the form and fenestration of the new development. Mr. Anderson said that if there were fundamental question about the form of the building, they would need to be dealt with at this meeting. The materials and fenestration could be dealt with at final review. Mr. Hayden suggested they deal with both the form and fenestration at this meeting. Ms. Garrow said the applicant would be comfortable with a condition that said that the materials and fenestration would be reviewed at final. She noted that they needed approval of the footprint tonight. The board discussed the ideas in the historic design guidelines about distinguishing a historic resource from new additions related to form. Mr. Moyer felt they could be a bit more flexible than they had been in the past. Ms. Thompson felt that existing historic structure is made up of simple materials of brick around the base of the structure, a simple roof line consistent around the structure and strip windows in between. She said the proposed façade of the new building has chaotic interruptions of fenestration and multiple materials. She said that is the façade that needs revision and felt that it could be easily accomplished by simplifying the palette and fenestration. Ms. Raymond noted that while the roof pitches are the same, the roof form on the historic structure has very long eaves which make the building read very horizontal. She said the new structure is very vertical and has almost no overhang. REGULAR MEETING HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION JULY 24TH, 2024 Mr. Fornell argued that with the height of the historic structure, one would not likely be affected by the rear building when walking down the sidewalk. Ms. Thompson said that she had less concern about the height and reiterated that she felt the material relationship could be easily improved. Ms. Raymond noted that the applicant only had to relate two aspects of the historic resource. The board agreed to the applicant’s concession that both materials and fenestration be reviewed and discussed at the final review. MOTION: Mr. Fornell moved to approve a recommendation to City Council. The motion was based off staff’s nine recommendations and included the following: • The commission’s support of the 10 TDRs • Deferring to City Council on Residential Development • Not allowing a cash-in-lieu payment for affordable housing • Not allowing a fee waiver • Agreement with staff on the restaurant tenant potential operation • Agreement on a five-year vesting rights period and a mixed opinion on the right of rescission • Support for the Planned Development as needed determined by Council’s decision • Support of the sub-division • Support for the parking requirement as presented • HPC reserves the right to review at final the materials and fenestration of the new rear addition Ms. Pitchford seconded. Roll call vote: Mr. Fornell, yes; Mr. Moyer, yes; Ms. Surfas, yes; Ms. Pitchford, yes; Ms. Raymond, yes; Mr. Warwick, yes; Ms. Thompson, yes. 7-0 vote, motion passes. Mr. Fornell wanted to thank Richard Shaw and the other owners of the property for the job that they have done over the decades and their stewardship of the property. The other members all agreed. ADJOURN: Ms. Thompson motioned to adjourn the regular meeting. Mr. Fornell seconded. All in favor; motion passes. ____________________ Mike Sear, Deputy City Clerk