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HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.council.19851104Continued Meeting Aspen City Council November 4, 1985 Mayor Stirling called the meeting to order at 5:05 p.m. with Councilmembers Fallin, Isaac, Walls, and Collins present. CONTINUED PUBLIC HEARING - Little Nell Conceptual SPA Mayor Stirling suggested that Council first address the growth issue, although a growth management plan has not officially been filed. The applicant has asked Council to make a decision on the growth issues. Council can then take the P & Z resolution and go through the 25 conditions and vote on each of them. Councilwoman Fallin asked what the position of P & Z was regard- ing the multi-year allocation. Alan Richman, planning direc- tor, told Council P & Z received the same presentation from staff as did Council as well as the presentation of the appli- cant. P & Z discussed a variety of concerns and there is a finding in the WHERASES supporting the section of the Municipal Code that provides for projects to be constructed over a number of years and for an allotment to be granted and that the P & Z was willing to entertain an application for such. Peter Forsch, Skiing Company, told Council the applicants feel comfortable with the approach of P & Z. However, they are not the deciding body, and are not philosophically opposed to a multi-year allocation. Mayor Stifling said the growth issue is a difficult one but more important are the 25 issues in the P & Z resolution, related to access to the mountain, mass of the building, circulation problems, parking. This request could have the city allocating units through 1989. The Council has approved the Aspen Mountain Lodge an allocation through 1986. There are units not yet constructed, but approved for the Hotel Jerome. There are about 400 lodge units approved, but none have been built. The growth management plan is to control the timing of when units are built so they do not all get built in one year. The Council must work within the Municipal Code to determine what is in the best interests of the community. Councilman Collins said the planning office points out there are significant implications in granting quota allotments out to 1992. Councilman Collins questioned crediting the L-3 quota with units from the Alpina Haus and Copper Horse. Richman said Council's decision was that these units should go to the L-3 quota, there is nothing in the Code that would prohibit Council from crediting these to the L-l, L-2 quota. Councilman Isaac said the city has made a history through the Aspen Mountain Lodge project of accepting multi-year allocation application. If the city does not accept this application, they might be limiting the possibilities for the future. 1 Continued Meeting. Aspen City Council November 4, 1985 Councilman Isaac moved that the Aspen Planning and Zoining Commission and Aspen City Council entertain an application for a multi-year GMP application for allocation; seconded by Council- woman Fallin. Councilman Collins said the applicant is looking for something more than that the Council will accept an application. Council has 3 choices in this conceptual level; some commitments to the allocation or no commitment to the allocation, or a definite no. Richman pointed out the difference in this application and the Aspen Mountain Lodge, the Aspen Mountain Lodge had a known quota available for the year the applicant was applying. There is no quota available in 1985. Richman said saying Council is willing to entertain is giving the applicant something they feel comfort- able with but is not giving any indication of support or lack thereof. Peter Forsch read a statement prepared by the applicant that they would like Council adopt. "Having reviewed the growth concerns raised by the public and planning office in response of the applicant's request, the City Council agrees that in the event the Aspen Skiing Company GMP application meets the thres- hold lodge GMP score and if the SPA precise plan is approved, then the city will grant, pursuant to the provisions of Section 24-11.2(b) of the Municipal Code of the city of Aspen, a future year's allocation to the applicant so that he will receive the quota necessary to develop his project as outlined in the application." Forsch said this gives the applicant some degree of comfort that if they meet the threshold requirements and Council agrees to the precise plan, this will not prohibit the applicant from getting the multi-year allocation. City Attorney Taddune told Council he does not agree with the resolu- tion in terms of a contractual relationship between the Council and the applicant. Taddune recommended Council not endorse the proposed resolution. Gideon Kaufman said the applicant understands they have to compete in the growth management plan as well as provide a precise plan. What the applicant does not want to happen is to get a GMP allocation and approval of the precise plan, and then have Council say they cannot approve it because of the multi-year allocation. Mayor Stirling said he needs to see the details worked out before he can decide whether or not this is a great project. After seeing the details and meeting all the condi- tions, Mayor Stifling said he would then be convinced to support approval of a multi-year allocation. Mayor Stifling said his decision about a multi-year allocation depends on the technical responses to allthe conditions. The growth issue could be settled in context of knowing that the technical issues can be resolved. 2 Continued Meeting Aspen City Council November 4, 1985 Kaufman asked if Council is saying they want to approve a precise plan before they grant a multi-year allocation. The applicant is asking for a commitment when the precise plan is approved that Council will grant a multi-year allocation. Mayor Stifling said the city needs to solve its own problems, like parking, circulation, bus terminals, lighting, street improve- ments. Mayor Stirling said by February or March 1986, Council will know better how to deal with these problems and can look at this project in context and the effects of this project on these problems. Mayor Stirling said he does not feel 77 parking spaces as proposed satisfies the requirement. Mayor Stifling said he feels a gondola is an essential requirement of this application and will solve some of the circulation problems. Mayor Stifling said the hotel is still too massive along Durant street with no area for drop off of people. Mayor Stirling said Council needs to see the effect of shadowing on Durant street. Forsch said there will be no multi-year allocation until the precise plan is approved. The applicant would like an indication from Council they are willing to make that commitment if the applicant can get the precise plan approved. Richman told Council in review of applications which have to borrow from another year's quota, that the project should be of the highest quality. This determination is made at the precise plan process. Richman said the applicant's proposal at this stage does not address the quality issue. Mayor Stirling said until the hard issues are addressed, he is not willing to make any specific determination about multi-year allocation. Councilman Isaac said the applicant is asking if Council is conceptually willing to look at a multi-year application, which is what he stated in his motion. Councilwoman Walls said this is not a multi-year allocation, it is reaching into future years and borrowing quota because quota for 1985, 1986 has already been allocated. Forsch said planning office and P & Z recommend the units from the Alpina Haus and Copper Horse be credited to the L-l, L-2 category. Forsch said the applicant is willing to deed restrict the Holiday House, which is 25 to 30 units. If all these units are credited, there would be 85 to 90 units available. The applicant's application is for 96 units or less, so they would be requesting only 5 or 10 units of the future. Richman told Council there is a good chance the Hotel Jerome will apply for building permit for their new units next year, and the numbers of units will have to be adjusted. Richman agreed the P & Z recommended to Council that the units from the Alpina Haus and Copper Horse be credited to the L-l, L-2. One of the reasons 3 Continued Meeting Aspen City Council November 4, 1985 for this recommendation is that to credit that many units to the L-3 would provide an enormous incentive for growth in that zone. The intent of L-3 was to provide for small additions to existing lodges. Another reason was that the impact of the Aspen Mountain Lodge will be in the L-1 district and it makes sense to offset that impact by crediting those units. Richman said Council did not act on the proposal to credit these units to any category, and chose not to deal with the issue until building permits are actually taken out. Richman said the Code states his office is to credit the appropr- iate quota when a change in use takes place. Richman said if all three projects do become deed restricted, which is a change in use, it would reduce the overall lodge inventory and this proposed project would not be adding to the overall inventory in the community. Richman pointed out that all the units described above must get deducted from the residential quota. Councilman Isaac pointed out when these units will be constructed is when quota will be available. Councilman Isaac said he does not want his motion to grant an allocation but wants to set a record that this Council is willing to accept their application if they pass the points. Councilman Isaac said his motion is to make sure that the multi-year application in itself won't keep this project from going down. Jerry Blann, Aspen Skiing Company, said there are very few sites in the lodging district that have the opportunity to compete for a hotel. Blann told Council by the time they are able to build the hotel and be open, the units would be available in the quota. Blann said this project started at 250 units and is now 96 units and may be less. Blann said the applicant is trying to respond to a process set up by the city but the applicant needs some reliance from the city. Blann said timing is critical to the Skiing Company; their bond financing expires in 1987. Councilman Isaac withdrew his motion; Councilwoman Fallin withdrew her second. Councilwoman Fallin moved that the City Council hereby expresses its willingness to consider granting a multi-year GMP allocation upon approval of the applicant's precise plan if submitted; seconded by Councilman Isaac. Kaufman said he would like comments from those voting in favor what it will take for the applicant to get the necessary appro- vals. Joe Edwards said what the applicant has requested is totally out of order and is an extraordinary request. All other applicants in both city and county have filed the GMP and taken their chances when it was appropriate. This applicant is asking for reliance so that the Council cannot deny this project in the 4 Continued Meeting Aspen City Council November 4, 1985 future. Edwards said it is inappropriate for Council to be giving the applicant any decision years before it should be given. Taddune said the applicant has indicated they are not asking Council for legal reliance. The applicant is attempting to lock Council in politically when it comes time to ask for a multi-year allocation. Richman told Council the reason the planning office brought up this issue is if Council is absolutely opposed to the concept, the applicant should know about it up front. Councilman Collins said he feels the Council is being asked to do something they are not quite ready to do. The applicant is looking for some reliance and security. Richman told Council this project could come out of the 1987 quota. If the 40 units at the Alpina Haus, 14 at the Copper Horse and 25 at the Holiday House, a total of 79 units are credited to the L-l, L-2 quota and the applicant is asking for 96 or less units, there would be 26 units available in 1987 and this would not be going into future year's quota. All in favor, with the exception of Councilmembers Walls and Collins. Motion carried. Hans Gramiger said he assumes that 96 units are appropriate for the site and that the applicant is not seeking zoning variances. Gramiger said the city wants to preserve as much open space as possible. The hotel space requested is 64,000 square feet and is 4 stories. Gramiger showed some schemes for a taller hotel with a smaller footprint and more open space. This way the hotel does not have to be on Durant street. Michael Kinsley said he feels this project, in completing the Great Wall of Durant street, is inconsistent with the growth policies. The primary purpose of the growth plan is to deal with the rate of growth. The rate of growth is critical to the quality of life in this valley. Kinsley questioned the assumption that to continue to be a viable resort, Aspen needs this hotel. Mayor Stirling pointed out it was assumed 10 years ago that growth would occur, yet no new lodge units have been built. Mayor Stifling said this motion allows the applicant to work through the process and get an idea of how the hotel can be improved in its final precise form. Kiefer Mendenhall said he serves thousands of tourists a year and testified to tourists desire for more quality lodging. Mendenhall reminded Council of an article in Time magazine which stated that Aspen has no quality accommodations. Mendenhall suggested Council find a way of accommodating quality lodging. 5 Continued Meeting Aspen City Council November 4, 1985 Condition #1 Richman told Council this condition is intended to address the technical requirement of the Code regarding open space along Durant street. Richman said the project meets the technical requirements of the Code, which requires that open space front on a street. There is a concern that open space is lacking on Durant street. The open space issue is wrapped up with the auto/taxi drop off issue. Richman recommended the project be moved back off Durant and create a courtyard. Mayor Stifling agreed this is one way to deal with the massiveness of the project. Mayor Stirling suggested adding language to condition #1 to address open space specifically along Durant street and in condition #7 that the applicant be required to create on his own property an on-site drop off for auto/taxis. Richman said the auto/taxi drop off is to re-create the facility that exists at Little Nell currently, not to serve hotel guests but to insure that people who are coming to ski do not stack up along Durant street. Councilman Isaac agreed the drop off is his biggest problem with the project. Councilman Isaac suggested Ski Company employees be stationed there to help get the skis off vehicles. Councilwoman Walls said at the very least the drop off has to be on the applicant's property, not on Durant street. Councilwoman Fallin agreed. Forsch said the applicant is evaluating the numbers and impacts on Durant street with their transportation consultant. Forsch said the current intention is to have the drop off on the street, which is no different that the existing situation. Forsch said they will accommodate on the site all the new traffic the submission generates and will replace any parking spaces that are lost from the street. Forsch said they feel the drop off can occur on the street and not effect the Durant street traffic pattern. If the impacts cannot be mitigated, the applicant will explore other options. Forsch said he would like to be given the opportunity to hear what the transportation consultants have to say, then address the issue. Mayor Stirling said Council wants the drop off to be off the street. Councilwoman Fallin said one of the goals is to improve the existing conditions. Richman said the drop off facility is not to deal with the hotel impact. This SPA is bringing the Aspen Mountain master plan to the base area. The master plan envisions a capacity increase to the mountain of 1,300 skiers as a result of increase uphill capacity. Richman said skiers should not be dealt with in the right-of-way when there will be an increased impact. The city's policy is to internalize the impacts. Mayor Stirling moved to add additional language for condition #7, "It is expected that the applicant will address the proper 6 Continued Meeting Aspen City Council November 4o 1985 location for this facility within the boundary of his property"; seconded by Councilwoman Walls. Kaufman said if the consultant comes in with an innovative plan using both the applicant's property, and the Durant avenue right-of-way, Council will not look at it. Mayor Stirling said Council will look at it, but the Council wants that impact mitigated off the streets. All in favor, motion carried. Mayor Stirling suggested deleting the sentence in condition #1, "The applicant shall work with zoning official to determine whether the open space provided on the project meets the require- ments of section 24-3.7 of the Code" and ask the staff to come up with a statement reflecting that the open space be demonstra- ted on all the frontages including Durant. Mayor Stirling said the intent to move the building back from Durant street. Forsch Said this plan is the compromise solution and the appli- cant does not have the ability to bend on these conditions. Forsch pointed out 2/3s of this is open space oriented toward the mountain and the base area. Forsch said changing these conditions may leave the applicant with a project that is undoable. Richman said the Code requirement has a minimum of a 10 foot depth to be defined as open space. Mayor Stirling said the standard is fine. Mayor Stirling moved in condition ~1 that part of the open space of this project be satisfied on Durant street as per the Code using the 10 foot guidelines; seconded by Councilwoman Walls. Kaufman said this is located in the CC zone and in that zone, there is no setback requirement. Mayor Stifling said this is a specially planned area and gives Council the authority to go beyond the Code. Councilman Isaac said if Council is asking for additional 10 feet plus 10 feet for the drop off plus 10 feet for the sidewalk, it is moving the building 30 feet off Durant, and this will kill the project. Councilman Isaac said he is not willing to support this condition. Forsch said the applicant has limited abilities to move the building around. This is a very constrained site and the applicant is dealing with a questionable economic entity. Mayor Stirling amended his motion to state there must be open space along Durant street using the 10 foot guideline but it could be taken as part of the context of the drop off facility; seconded by Councilwoman Walls. All in favor, with the exception of Councilman Isaac. Motion carried. 7 Continued Meeting Aspen City Council November 4, 1985 Condition #2 is that the applicant will request a variance of the floor area ratio if it is above 1.5:1. Richman noted that the land zoned conservation is not counted towards the project's FAR. Richman said the land zoned conservation does not allow lodge or commercial uses, it should not count towards the FAR; this position was taken during the Aspen Mountain Lodge PUD process. Richman said if the FAR for this project was calculated on the entire parcel, the applicant is well below the FAR for the site. Council changed the word to variation. Kaufman said there are strong arguments that no variation is required. Mayor Stirling asked what relationship Ordinance #53, changing the SPA boundary has to the FAR variation. Richman said if Council is considering the site within the present SPA the applicant would have a '1.7:1 FAR. Increasing the SPA lowers the FAR. Richman said there is only conceptual information on this project, which is why one of the conditions recommends Council table ordinance #53 until Council is ready to act on the precise plan. Council was in favor of condition #2 as written, changing the word variance to variation. Condition #3 Mayor Stifling said 77 parking spaces is too few and would urge the applicant's consideration of at least meeting the Code requirement of one space per room. Mayor Stirling said there is a terrible parking problem in this area already. Mayor Stifling said he would like to see 175 parking spaces for this project. Richman said the CC zone does not require parking, the lodge zone requires 1 space per bedroom and commercial square footage requires 4 spaces par 1,000 square feet. Kaufman told Council there is only 4,000 new commercial square footage, the rest is replacement square footage. Mayor Stirling said Council has an opportunity to improve the parking situation and benefit the community. Councilman Isaac said he feels 175 parking spaces may be too onerous and his main concern is that the applicant replaces all the parking that is there presently. Councilman Isaac said the hotel guests will probably not need cars. Forsch said it is probably not geologically possible to have 3 or 4 levels of underground parking. Bill Kane told Council they have retained a transportation consultant. The P & Z requested that TDA investigate industry standards. Kane said their consultant will give the applicant a reasonable parking requirement. Mayor Stifling said instead of satisfying all parking spaces on site, there might be dedication of a certain number of parking spaces in a parking garage. Jerry Blann, Aspan Skiing Company, asked what the precedent of parking spaces for the Aspen Mountain Lodge was. Mayor Stifling said for the Aspen Mountain Lodge it was .7 per bedroom. Kane 8 Continued Meeting Aspen City Council November 4, 1985 said the consultant is looking at drop off requirements, parking, and an analysis of the surrounding streets. Mayor Stirling said he would like the condition to state that it is the consensus of Council that 77 parking spaces is too few. Councilmembers Fallin and Isaac agreed but said they did not want to state a specific number. Fred Smith asked Council if they would allow the applicant to use space under Durant street for parking. Mayor Stirling said Council would be open to that suggestion. All Council was in favor of condition #3 adding the words, "shall increase the proposed number of parking spaces at the precise plan". Condition #4 is that the applicant shall continue to evaluate the impact of the hotel on the view of Aspen mountain. Mayor Stifling said this is a critical condition. Council all in favor of this condition. Conditions #5 and #6 Council all in favor of both of these conditions. Condition #8 This condition is the applicant provide a detailed analysis of the proposed service yards on Spring and Dean streets. Mayor Stifling urged the applicant to work very closely with the adjacent property owners. Council all in favor of this condition. Condition #9 Councilman Isaac asked that a statement be added to this condition about emergency, fire and ambulance vehicles being able to get to the project. Council in favor of this condition. Condition #10 Council all in favor of this condition as written. Condition #11 Council in favor of this conditions as written that the applicant will provide a solution to the pumphouse relocation. Condition #12 Mayor Stirling suggested changing base lifts to "gondola" in this condition. Forsch said the applicant is not willing or prepared to commit to a gondola. Blann told Council the same skier capacity can be reached with a detachable quad lift. Blann said there is a $2,800,000 cost difference between a detachable quad and a gondola. The applicant will make the decision on the lift outside of this process. Councilman Isaac said he would like the applicant to identify at the next stage what kind of lift will be put in, what the traffic generation is and what the visual impacts are. Mayor Stifling said he feels the news about a gondola on Aspen mountain would be very excit- ing. Mayor Stirling said a gondola would be an unbelievable amenity for this resort. 9 Continued Meeting Aspen City Council November 4, 1985 Mayor Stifling moved to insert the word gondola in place of new base lifts; seconded by Councilwoman Walls. Councilwoman Walls and Mayor Stirling in favor; Councilmembers Fallin and Isaac opposed. Motion NOT carried. Councilman Isaac said he would like to insert in condition #12 the words "at the precise plan submission". Kaufman said a decision cannot be made by the time the precise plan has to be submitted to the city, which is December 2nd. Richman said the decision on what type of lift it will be does not affect the GMP scoring. Mayor Stifling said he would consider extending the GMP submission date a second time, if there were to be no other applicants, which would assist the applicant in making a better precise plan. Richman said the application will have to be submitted in 1985. Councilman Isaac said he feels strongly the Council should know what kind of lift will be installed when they look at the precise plan. Mayor Stirling moved to continue the meeting to 3:30 p.m. November 5, 1985; seconded by Councilwoman Walls. All in favor, motion carried. Council left the meeting at 7:~.~.m. t ~ Ka , City Clerk