HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.council.19851105Aspen City Council Continued Meeting november 5, 1985
Mayor Stirling called the meeting to order at 3:40 p.m. with
Councilmembers Isaac and Walls present.
Mayor Stifling said he has received 2 new letters in favor of
the hotel. Mayor Stifling said Council has passed a motion
indicating a willingness of Council to consider granting a
multi-year allocation once the precise plan was approved, if
submitted. Conditions 1 through 11 have been approved with
amendments. The applicant would like to discuss the issue of
drop off in condition #7 again.
Mayor Stirling said the spirit of this discussion is one of
cooperation and of give and take. Mayor Stirling said the
Council's vested interest is the community as a whole, and the
applicant's vested interest is what works best for the company.
Mayor Stirling said the Skiing Company has been essential to
creation of modern Aspen. Every development project has certain
costs, and the city has certain requirements in the Code. Mayor
Stirling said economics have to do with many different issues,
like local goodwill and being sensitive to the community. Mayor
Stirling said he feels a gondola is necessary to this applicat-
ion; however, last night Council defeated a motion that only a
gondola would be acceptable.
Councilman Isaac said he would like to know at precise plan
stage what type of lift the Skiing Company plans to install.
Peter Forsch, Skiing Company, reminded Council they have discus-
sed postponing the GMP and precise plan date to accommodate the
applicant's process. Forsch said the applicant plans to make
the decision about the type of lift prior to the end of the
precise plan process. Richman said the precise plan will go to
P & Z in January and will probably be in front of Council in
March and April. Jerry Blann, Skiing Company, told Council the
uphill capacity of a gondola and detachable quad is essentially
the same. The SkiiDg Company has not looked into all the
details, like summer use, use by non-skiers, etc. There are
advantages and disadvantages to each type of lift. The Skiing
Company is balancing the pros of a gondola against the additional
cost of $2,800,000. Mayor Stirling asked about an aerial tram.
Blann said an aerial tram is 3 times the cost of a gondola.
Richman told Council the reason this condition does not speak
specifically to a type of lift is that the master plan addresses
the lifts and outlines two alternatives permitted in the master
plan, a detachable quad or a gondola. Richman suggested language
in the condition about when the lifts are to be installed, no
later than 1987. Councilman Isaac said the improvements funded
by the industrial revenue bond have a deadline. Richman said he
is concerned that if the applicant does not go ahead with the
1
Aspen City Council Continued Meeting november 5, 1985
lift but does go ahead with other improvements in the SPA area,
the circulation at the base would not work.
Gideon Kaufman, representing the Skiing Company, said he would
not want this language to preclude the Skiing Company's options
to finish the lift installation in 1988. The applicant should
have the flexibility on installing the lift without being tied to
a time frame that does not work. Mayor Stirling said the
language could be "to be started in 1987" to allow some flexibi-
lity.
Councilman Isaac moved to add words to instruct the applicant to
specify what lift system will be installed at the time of
presentation to the Council of the precise plan; seconded by
Councilwoman Wall s.
Mayor Stifling suggested on or before February 1st for the time
of lift choice Kaufman said if there is a specific date it
becomes a problem and suggested that the specific lift choice
should be submitted to staff two weeks prior to Council's
hearing. Allan Blomquist said the issue of what type of lift
should be presented to P & Z before it is presented to Council.
Blann said the lift systems, without storage of gondolas or
chairs, look very similar at the base of the mountain. Blomquist
said his basic concern is the year round use. Kaufman said the
quad chair can also be used in the summer. Blomquist said the
summer visitors may not be used to riding on chair lifts and
would prefer gondolas. Blann said he understood the reason the
application takes in the lift configuration is from a land use
planning standpoint, it all fits together. Richman suggested
that the language about which specific lift fits better in
condition #13.
Councilman Isaac withdrew his previous motion and moved to
approve condition #12 inserting the words, "to be initiated in
1987"; seconded by Councilwoman Walls. All in favor, motion
carried.
Councilman Isaac moved to approve condition #13 with the addit-
ional language, "specifying which lift system with notice to be
given to the city two weeks in advance of Council discussion;
seconded by Councilwoman Walls. All in favor, motion carried.
Condition #14 Employee Housing. Kaufman said the Code is very
specific that Council has delegated to the housing authority the
ability to make determinations on housing. Kaufman told Council
the P & Z added itself as a review body in this condition over
and above what the Code specifies. Kaufman said he does not feel
review by P & Z is appropriate. Richman said the Code says the
housing authority provides staff with the employee generation
2
Aspen City Council Continued Meeting november 5, 1985
factors. These factors have to be accepted by P & Z and Council.
Richman said he does not feel the P & Z overstepped its bounds;
the Council is the third party in making any employee housing
determination. Councilwoman Walls said the P & Z would go beyond
the specifics of what the housing authority would look at.
Richman pointed out the code is specific in giving P & Z recom-
mendation authority to City Council. Kaufman said the history is
to allow an applicant the ability to go to the housing authority
and come up with recommended numbers of employee units and be
able to have reliance on that for the GMP application. Richman
said this process is to have an applicant commit to housing a
certain percentage of their employees.
Councilwoman Walls moved to approve condition #14 as is; seconded
by Councilman Isaac. All in favor, motion carried.
Condition #15 Shadow Study Richman said he feels the Council's
condition regarding open space and removing the building back off
the street will reduce the potential of shadow effects. This is
a result of P & Z's concern about Durant being an icy street.
Jerry Hewey requested that South Spring street also be addressed
in the shadow study. Applicant agreed to that. All Council in
favor of condition #15.
Condition ~16 Snow Shedding. Bill Kane said they have discussed
using abrasive materials at a slope that will retain snow. This
will be a cold roof system. All Council in favor of condition
#16.
Condition #17 Aspen Alps park zone. Forsch said there is no
proposed encroachment on the Aspen Alps park. This will make it
difficult to move the proposed building back up the lot.
Councilman Isaac said there is a trade off between land that is
not being used and gaining open space on Durant avenue. Richman
said there are covenants on the land that would prevent using it.
Councilwoman Walls moved to accept condition #17 as written;
seconded by Mayor Stirling. All in favorr with the exception of
Councilman Isaac. Motion carried.
Condition %18 Trail Easement Kane showed Council where the
applicant will continue a trail through the base area and
connect the trail to the Dean street connection. All Council in
favor of condition #18.
Conditions #19 & #20 Gateway to the Mountain. Mayor Stirling
said this is the last access the public will have to the mountain
and it should be ample. Kaufman said there needs to be access;
however, any discussions involving another applicants property
are better suited for the attorneys to discuss. Forsch said the
3
Aspen City Council Continued Meeting november 5, 1985
applicant can provide the access up to the mountain. The Skiing
Company has a 14 foot easement for ski area access. Mayor
Stirling said without the other parcel, the access to the
mountain is radically changed. Forsch said key in this condition
is working with the city to better the entrance to the mountain.
Mayor Stirling said this other parcel has to be part of the
precise plan for the project to work. Mayor Stirling read
condition ~20 which seems to indicate that if the ownership of
the other parcel is not part of the precise plan, there cannot be
a precise plan.
Forsch said realistically, this problem will not be resolved by
the time a precise plan is submitted. Forsch said the applicant
may have to present two versions of the precise plan with the
intention to work on solving this problem. Mayor Stirling said
regarding the Johnson property, the city would be willing to be
party to and assist in discussion about the acquisition of the
property. City Attorney Taddune told Council the city is
involved in litigation with Johnson and it would not be appropr-
iate to get involved in acquisition.
Forsch said Johnson is claiming title to some area further up
the mountain, which the applicant does not agree to. Kaufman
requested that condition ~20 be changed from "have been resol-
ved" to "are in the process of being resolved" as this will take
time. Taddune told Council that Johnson has plans for a town-
house on the property. In the event there is a townhouse there,
the city's planning considerations will be greatly impacted.
Forsch said the applicant needs to work with the city to resolve
this problem for the benefit of the community. Taddune advised
the Council it is incumbent upon the applicant to solve this
problem, as it is not the city's problem. Kaufman said the
applicant's precise plan will not be approved until the city is
satisfied with the resolution of this problem, but it cannot be
solved by submission of the precise plan, which is only 3 weeks
away. Taddune said that is a reasonable request. Richman
suggested if condition #20 is changed to add "are in the process
of being resolved" that another sentence be added, "the precise
plan shall not be approved until the pedestrian access issue has
been resolved to the city's satisfaction".
Richman read amended condition ~20, "The applicant shall demons-
trate in the precise plan submission that all questions as to
the ownership of the Hunter street right-of-way are in the
process of being resolved and shall work with the City of Aspen
to insure that permanent guarantees of the availability of
Hunter and Dean streets for pedestrian access have been provided.
Precise plan shall not be approved until the pedestrian access
issue has been resolved to the city's satisfaction." Taddune
4
Aspen City Council Continued Meeting november 5, 1985
recommended that "shall work with the City of Aspen" should come
out of the condition.
Councilman Isaac moved to approve condition #20 with the changes
outlined; seconded by Mayor Stifling. All in favor, motion
carried.
Councilman Isaac moved to adopt condition #19; seconded by
Councilwoman Walls. All in favor, motion carried.
Condition #21 Fireplaces. Forsch told Council it is the intent
of the applicant to use gas burning fireplaces in the hotel.
All Council in favor of condition #21.
Condition #22 Drainage plan. This will be submitted at the
precise plan stage. All Council in favor of condition #22.
Condition #23 Access Pattern. Kane showed Council the parking
lot between Copper Kettle and the Tipple Lodge, and the concern
was raised that skiers use this as access to the mountain. Kane
told Council this is private land, and the owner does not
approve of it as access. Forsch said he does not feel this
access is in the best interest of the land use schemes for the
area. Forsch said the applicant feels this is counter to what
~ they are trying to accomplish with the Dean street access.
Forsch said he did not feel the city could ask the applicant to
provide access to the mountain over someone else's property.
Mayor Stifling pointed out the improvement district will help
this whole area and direct people down the street to Dean
street. Richman told Council he has a letter from Spencer
Schiffer, representing the Kettle corporation, who is rather
emphatic that the historic traffic pattern should not be recogn-
ized.
Mayor Stirling moved to delete condition #23; seconded by
Councilman Isaac. All in favor, motion carried.
Condition #24 Richman said this condition is in conjunction with
the staff's recommendation that Council not adopt Ordinance #53
until approval of precise plan. All Council in favor of condi-
tion #24.
Condition #25 Boundary reversion Richman told Council if the
project cannot move forward, the city should have the opportunity
to review both a development proposal and the extent of the
zoning boundary. There is precedent in the Little Annie rezon-
ing. All Council in favor of condition #25.
Forsch told Council the applicant will work with the lodge
improvement district and the CCLC to make improvements compat-
ible with the base area improvements. Mayor Stirling said he
5
Aspen City Council Continued Meeting november 5, 1985
would like this be a condition of the precise plan. Charles
Hopton said there are ticket kiosks shown on city rights-of-way
and this is a concern. Mayor Stirling said he would like in the
condition the specific uses of Dean street. Mayor Stifling
recommended a new condition #25 that all plans related to the
city's right-of-way known as Dean street be presented in the
precise plan and be subject to review and acceptance by P & Z
and Council. All Council in favor of this new condition #25.
Council requested "year round trail easement" be added to
condition 418. Richman raised the concern about happens in 5
years, and is it in Council's interest to look at the future
build out on this site and to perhaps have a conservation
easement over the open space. There is no protection on land
further up Little Nell. Forsch said that land is already zoned
Conservation. This will require the applicant to ge through a
rigorous SPA process. Mayor Stirling said he does not think this
should be a condition. Councilwoman Walls agreed Council should
not put conditions on a future Council.
Councilman Isaac brought up the possibility of granting a height
variance to enable the applicant to condense the building into a
smaller footprint and bring it back off Durant street. Council-
man isaac said he would be interested in looking at the trade
off. Mayor Stirling said the tolerance in the community is not
for tall buildings. Richman said the Highlands base development
just fetested the concept of taller buildings, and the reaction
of the county was unanimous denial. Mayor Stirling said at this
site, the mountain should be the focal point. Forsch said the
applicant's proposal recognizes community sensitivities and
tries to stay within the guidelines.
Forsch brought up condition #7 and told Council they have a
clear sense of Council's desire to see the auto/taxi drop off on
site. Forsch said the applicant would like to not be totally
precluded from incorporating Durant street into the working
relationship. Forsch said in the best interest of circulation,
they would like to be allowed to explore some possibility of
incorporating some part of Durant street. Councilwoman Walls
said she does not feel Durant street can be used without elimina-
ting parking and interfering with traffic circulation. Mayor
Stirling said Council feels very strongly the drop off has to be
on site.
Mayor Stirling said if the applicant proposes something that
enhances the city right-of-way, Council would look at that.
Kane showed some possibilities for the drop off area using
private property, city property and right-of-way. Kane said the
condition is written so there is no flexibility. Mayor Stirling
said he wants to stay with the drop off on the applicant's
6
Aspen City Council Continued Meeting november 5. 1985
property. Councilman Isaac said he is willing to be more
flexible but would prefer it 100 percent off the right-of-way.
Forsch said before the transportation consultant report, they
feel there may be a better solution which uses part of the
right-of-way and would like the ability to explore this.
Councilwoman Walls said if the applicant comes back with a
marvelous solution, Council can change the condition. Forsch
said this language may put them in a legal position where they
have no options. Richman said this challenges the applicant to
provide an alternative to one which meets this condition explici-
tly and Council has a chance to look at the alternatives. Mayor
Stirling said this resolution will be approved at the November
11, 1985 Council meeting. Mayor Stirling said if the applicant
wants the submission dates extended, Council will be willing to
approve this.
Mayor Stifling closed the public hearing on the Little Nell SPA.
Councilwoman Walls moved to adjourn at 5:25 p.m.; seconded by
Councilman Isaac. All in favor, motion carried.
t S och, City Clerk