HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.hpc.20160525ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION
MINUTES OF MAY 25, 2016
1
Chairperson, Willis Pember called the meeting to order at 5:00 p.m.
Commissioners in attendance were Nora Berko, Gretchen Greenwood,
Patrick Sagal, Jim DeFrancia, John Whipple and Michael Brown. Bob
Blaich was absent.
Staff present:
Debbie Quinn, Assistant City Attorney
Amy Simon, Preservation Planner
Kathy Strickland, Chief Deputy Clerk
980 Gibson Avenue – Final Major Development, Public Hearing
Zone 4 – Bill Pollock and Eric Westerman
Haas Planning, Mitch Haas
Debbie said the affidavits have been properly provided and HPC can
proceed.
Amy said this site contains two historic structures. One has recently been
subdivided and not part of the discussion. There are two miner’s cottages
adjacent to each other that are currently hooked together with a garage. The
garage will be demolished and the miner’s cottage that remains will be
restored and a new house will be built next to it. It will be a s ingle family
house with a carriage. The applicant was asked to do two things since
conceptual, move the miner’s cottage further away from Matchless Drive
and to move the new house back so that the historic resource is the most
prominent building. They were also asked to look at the roof overhang on
the new structure as it is exaggerated. Both of those things have been
accomplished. Landscape lighting, fenestration and materials will be
addressed tonight.
The historic structure is positioned backward and the house will be rotated
around so that the front door will face Gibson Ave. Most of the restoration
will be based on evidence of other miner’s cottages in town. There aren’t a
lot of original materials left on the building and we don’t have photographs.
Conditions of approval. Windows and doors need completely constructed
new because they don’t exist now and they are a little too wide and squatty
ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION
MINUTES OF MAY 25, 2016
2
which can be addressed during the building permit process. The roof fascia
seems a little thick and we need to make sure those proportions are correct.
Also the roofing material needs discussed. Shingles would be ideal but
maybe a membrane could be discussed.
New house. The overhang on the porch has been restudied and meets HPC’s
direction. The design of the windows are somewhat contemporary and
others have a tripartite organization where the header on the central window
is taller than the flanking windows and we suggest there be a staff and
monitor review on that window to unify it more. We need to make sure
there is compatibility with the historic structure. Staff recommends
approval.
Patrick said the historic house seems close to Matchless and could it be
moved back a little.
Amy said they propose to move it two feet further away from Matchless.
Gretchen asked about the lower level basement plan as it looks like the
concrete walls are connected.
Amy said at conceptual it was approved to have the two basement walls
touch each other but they are required to fill in the common cavern with
gravel or something to deter connecting them. A variance was given.
Applicant presentation:
Mitch said the window on the front has been brought down to the header
height. The historic building will be re-oriented.
Eric said we will try to save as many trees as we can.
Mitch said there is a large separation between the two structures. The
buildings are about 20 feet apart. The new house roof plan is a low one-
story at the closest element. There will be a lot of staff and monitor work on
this building to determine what windows etc. were original.
Eric said the front door of the historic house is 7 feet tall and the windows
key off of that height. We can look at making the door taller and then align
the windows with the top of the door. The window proportion in the kitchen
will drop at the counter height and we can make that narro wer.
ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION
MINUTES OF MAY 25, 2016
3
New house: Mitch said on the new house they prefer that the large window
be different than the rest for the views. We picked up the fenestration from
the other windows. We feel the windows shouldn’t match precisely. The
landscape plan is basically grass and very simple. The front of the property
is lawn and there are simple walkways.
Eric said some of the lilacs will be moved during construction and
transplanted back to give a buffer between the historic resource and the
street. Most of the lighting is simple and recessed cans.
Willis said staff indicated that the porch roof of the historic house might be
too chunky.
Bill said we are happy to work through how the fascia should be designed
and also the roofing.
Bill said the window mullions on the west elevation center can be lowered to
respond to staff’s concern.
Eric said asphalt shingles will be used on the historic cottage and cedar lap
siding that will match the existing profile.
Gretchen commented that she would like to see wood shingles on the
historic roof.
Eric said there will be a metal roof on the new house, standing seam profile
with charcoal gray tones. The client is looking at a fiber cement material or a
Prodema panel which is a wood like material that provides a 30 year
warranty and has zero maintenance. The concept is that it is a wood like
siding. The wood like material would be in the gables. The roof is a
standing seam metal.
Chairperson, Willis Pember opened the public hearing.
Alan Becker, 950 Gibson
Alan asked if the carriage house will have below grade space and what is the
square footage above grade for the historic house and new house. There was
also mentioned re-grading.
ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION
MINUTES OF MAY 25, 2016
4
Mitch said the re-grading is at Matchless/ Herron Street. Engineering is
requiring that the road surface be regraded and a drainage swell be installed
to handle drainage. There is no sidewalk plan but room for one should that
occur. On Gibson it doesn’t make sense to put a sidewalk in due to the
grade differential and the fact that it doesn’t tie in with anything.
Eric said the square footage for the cottage is about 500 to 600 square feet
above grade and the main house with the garage is 2800 square feet above
grade.
Alan Becker said his concern is that the new house is being built across a
roadway that was controlled by the City. My vi ew plane will not be
impacted but the people that live at 1050 will have some visual impacts. It’s
always a sad day when your view is compromised.
Chris Greenwood said she lives at 1050. When they did the quiet title I was
also told that they couldn’t build on the property. How far is the house from
the rear property line?
Mitch said 38.9 from the rear property line. There will be a small retaining
wall and the area will be flat.
Chris said drainage has been a problem in that area.
Mitch said there will be a functional improvement for the neighborhood.
Chris asked if the historic house will be moved when the project starts.
Eric said the historic house will be moved and either relocated to another site
or moved to a corner of the property where the construction isn’t taking
place at the time. The foundations will be built and then the historic house
set on the foundation.
Chris asked about the start date.
Mitch said the hope is to start in the spring of 2017.
Chairperson, Willis Pember closed the public hearing.
Willis identified the issues:
ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION
MINUTES OF MAY 25, 2016
5
Proportions of the historic windows when excavation occurs
Porch roof on the historic resource
Willis said there are no conditions on the new home.
Patrick suggested giving the applicant direction once the walls are open.
The perceived front of the new structure because of the 12 foot porch which
will have some kind of a railing is going to make it look like the front of the
house is the front deck and the deck goes a foot further out than the historic
structure. Maybe it would be better to make the deck instead of 12 by 20
wide, make it ten or 8 feet so that it doesn’t stick out as far.
Willis said that would recess the deck above as well because it is all tied
together.
Patrick said the upstairs deck is what is going to be seen because that is
where the railing is.
Michael said the window pattern on the garage side feels like they are
haphazardly thrown in. The header on the front façade has been changed
and should it be done on the other two on the north side.
Gretchen said she is concerned about the Victorian simple massing and next
door there is no relationship visually or sensitivity to the historic resource. It
looks like there are three different styles of architecture. I am having a
problem with the concept. Regarding the details the width of the trim and all
the different kind of windows seems very weak to me. I prefer simplicity
next to the cabins. There are deep overhangs and then a modern addition in
the center and the forms of a gabled roof that somewhat articulate the
historic resource but the combination doesn’t work for me. I would prefer
the wood shingled roof rather than asphalt on the historic cabin. That would
elevate the status of the building on the corner. The concept and site
planning is excellent.
Willis said in general the new building is very busy.
John said our guidelines can be very subjective. There is a lot of good with
the new building being detached 22 feet away from the historic cabin. There
is a little more rhythm if the windows all align up but it’s not a deal breaker.
There should be some flexibility.
ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION
MINUTES OF MAY 25, 2016
6
Willis said the gray center reduce the scale on the front façade and it is
clearly different. It is a modern insertion on the façade.
Michael said the linear windows on the gray portion don’t feel like they have
any continuity or place on the façade.
Patrick said the gray area seems like it sticks out rather than making it less
visible from the house and detracts from the historic house next door.
Gretchen said maybe the concept is a progression of change in one building
that reflects the historical history.
John said when they dissect the house you will be able to see how the double
hung windows work and what fits there. Raising the mullion to line up with
the header line is a good suggestion. I’m more in trying to stay objective.
Having the new building detached is good and I’m more flexible with the
window.
Nora said see feels the windows are a little chaotic. The cement wall seems
like it competes with the historic resource. There is a lot of good but do you
compromise with a lot of good and not make it a great pro ject. The
condition is that the windows need restudied with the monitor.
Gretchen said the breakup of the mass in the center piece works. I would
stand behind staff’s recommendations.
Willis said the bigger problems are on the fabric of the new construction, the
wood siding and the tripartite divisions of the windows. The flanking
windows should be more consistent. Maybe reduce the number of new
materials on the new building. There are so many materials and so many
window shapes. The condition says restudy the proposed windows of the
new house to become more similar in shape and size and proportion to the
historic resource.
Willis said we could add an additional condition to restudy the new
construction and eliminating one of the exterior materials. All agreed.
Patrick asked the board that the roof of the historic building be wood
shingles rather than asphalt. Gretchen agreed.
ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION
MINUTES OF MAY 25, 2016
7
Jim pointed out that wood shingles have implications on fire ratings and the
technology for asphalt shingles has advanced dramatically.
Willis said it is refreshing not to see wood shingles because it represents
more modesty.
Amy pointed out that asphalt was used in the community and asphalt roofs
are signed off routinely with a thickened shingle.
MOTION: Willis moved to approve resolution #16 with the following
changes. #2 insert the work proportion. #3 restudy of the new construction
the possibility of eliminating one of the exterior materials. Motion second
by Jim.
Gretchen said it seems like we are approving a building that is not resolved
or worked out.
Michael agreed and he would like to see more effort from the applicant and
the project could be better. The site plan is good and has good attributes.
Patrick and Michael said there are a lot of conditions to put on the monitor.
John said you always have the flexibility to kickback a decision you are
mulling on back to the board and it happens quite frequently. I’m
comfortable with the scope and the elimination of a material to be approved
by staff and monitor.
Roll call vote: Patrick, no; Gretchen, yes; John, yes; Jim, yes; Nora, yes;
Michael, no; Willis, yes. Motion carried 5-2.
Patrick is the monitor.
135 E. Cooper Ave. – Minor Development, Public hearing
Debbie recused herself.
Kathy commented that the affidavit of posting has been properly provided,
Exhibit I
Amy said the proposal is the modify an existing connector piece which links
the piece of the Victorian Era house on the site to a new addition that was
ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION
MINUTES OF MAY 25, 2016
8
approved by HPC several years ago. This is the 5th time the group as
discussed the project and staff as recommended denial. The connector that
is there now is consistent with other connectors that have been allowed for
other projects, a one story minimal element that is creating basically a
passageway between the new and old. The owner has concerns how the
house flows which we are sympathetic to but we did not design the interior
layout. The proposed connector is taller than the historic resource and it is
of a very contrasting material which is OK but not so when it becomes a two
story winding staircase element that has presence on the site. One historic
window would need moved. At the last meeting Gretchen suggested if the
plan is amended and the connector tucked under the eave of the hist oric
resource then that would be acceptable. As it turns out that isn’t physically
possible. We find that the design guidelines aren’t met and this is not
something that HPC should allow.
Amy said the color of the addition which we don’t regulate makes it too
unified and it is harder to distinguish new from old.
Michael said the addition looks like the same style as the resource. It is
precisely what we are trying to avoid today.
Willis commented that the applicant is saying a one story connector is
preferred but it is not required.
Dillon Johns, Zone 4 architecture
Mitch Haas, Haas Planning
Mitch said the existing link while it is a one story is unsuccessful. It is not
in proportion with the historic resource or the addition. This is a large
Victorian and large addition. People can’t tell where the old ends and the
new begins. Improving the function of the house with a two story link that
is clearly modern and clearly of its own time helps to separate the new from
the old. The majority of the commission agreed since the connector is set so
far back from the front property line. The purpose of the HPC was to draw a
reasonable balance between private property rights and the public interest in
preserving these resources. Our feeling the reasonable balance is letting the
thing function properly and that in doing so we can better differentiate the
old from the new. The commission agreed to work with us granting an
approval with the condition that the link into the historic resource stay below
the eave line. It is physically impossible to do that and results in a ceiling
ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION
MINUTES OF MAY 25, 2016
9
height on the first floor of 7’6”, quite low and a condition that you have to
walk down steps and land on a landing and go back up steps to get under the
eave line. We have re-designed the link again where the bulk of it is pushed
up against the new construction and as far off of the historic house can you
can get while providing minimum widths for the stairs and keeping the
height low.
Dillon said we had several meetings trying to locate the most optimal place
for the connection. We don’t have a lot of room to work with regarding the
stair. We turned the roof into glass and the top of the connection is where
the hatching ends. In the spirit of trying to delineating the two structures we
feel the new design is helping to do that. The stairs are an open tread design
to maximumize the visual trend through the space so it tries to remain as
open as possible. We have a minimum ceiling height of 7’6” and we are at
7’2” and the code does not allow for that to happen. We have an odd
condition of trying to slip underneath. We have tried to minimumize the
width of the cut into the eave line so that you have historic eave lines on
both sides where you cut into it.
Mitch said the existing link is not differentiating the two and we feel this one
will and will solve the functional issue of the home.
Gretchen asked if this is approved which staircase on the inside gets
eliminated. There is a staircase that goes up in the addition to the bedroom.
Are you gutting the building and taking the staircases out? We aren’t seeing
what the future plans of the building are.
Dillon said we have not be asked to look at that. We need to cross this
threshold first.
Gretchen said it is clear that one staircase services the master bedroom in the
new addition and the other serves the lower level.
Mitch said the new proposed stair case will serve all levels and neither needs
to remain.
Gretchen said you will be taking out the historic staircase.
Mitch said we will have a no net gain. There is a loft area, the attic that will
go away.
ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION
MINUTES OF MAY 25, 2016
10
Gretchen said maybe it is time to remodel the building and have an interior
solution.
Mitch said they looked at a lot of interior solutions but none of them get the
two second floors together without having to go down and across and back
up other than this one.
Gretchen said you have two staircases getting to two levels. Two bedrooms
in the upper level of the historic building and one bedroom and a b ig master
bath at the other level and each has their own staircase.
Mitch said every time they have a sick kid in a bedroom they have to go
down the stairs across the house and back up the stairs. This has been an
ongoing problem in this house. The owner won’t let us go any further.
Without getting the link approved she is not going to pay anyone to design
anything else in the house.
Michael asked if the connector pushes forward toward Cooper and how far?
Dillon said yes it has been shifted toward Cooper about 5 feet to minimize
the impact of the existing fabric.
Michael said the problems were created when they did the addition and they
are now trying to solve. The connector is so squat that it doesn’t jive with
10.7 guideline today.
Amy said when the project came in it had a two story connector and HPC
discussed it then and HPC felt that the one story connector was a win. This
has been going on for quite some time.
Michael asked if the applicant could tear down the addition and re do the
entire thing. Amy said yes they could.
Gretchen asked if they considered a straight run of the stairs next to the
addition and then build the stairs on the new part of the addition.
Dillon said what happens is we still have to pierce the roof and disturb the
same amount of fabric on the historic resource and the other concern is that
we were getting too close to Cooper Ave.
ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION
MINUTES OF MAY 25, 2016
11
Nora said there is one window being moved to an area where there never
was a window.
Willis said he did a project in which the 7 foot ceiling height was OK.
Amy said this is new construction and she doesn’t feel the Bldg. Dept. has
that kind of exception.
Gretchen said 7 feet is in the code.
Dillon said he scrutinized the code to make sure they were complying with
it.
Nora pointed out that this is a National Historic Registered building.
Amy said it is honorary and they could still tear the building down if we
didn’t have our own local ordinances that prevent changes. We should be
extra sensitive to what is happening.
Willis pointed out that there is a new code, IEBC for existing structures.
John said maybe a two story connector would work if it was transparent and
there was some effort to distinguish the two homes. Maybe change the
fenestration on the modern addition and have a different material to separate
the two. Is the applicant amenable to changing anything?
Mitch said they might be able to approach the applicant for some subtle
changes.
Dillon said he also feels there could be some consideration.
Chair-person, Willis Pember opened the public hearing. There were no
public comments. The public hearing was closed.
Jim said he supports staff’s recommendations. As proposed it doesn’t meet
the guidelines.
John said he would continue this one more time and have the applicant take
the ideas back to the owner.
ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION
MINUTES OF MAY 25, 2016
12
Gretchen said the code said ceiling heights of not less than 7 feet. You
haven’t pushed it far enough and in looking at the drawing you could
accommodate that. Do a clear shot low and the stairs go up.
Willis said they were approved at a previous hearing if that condition was
met that the eaves weren’t violated. The middle section does work by code
and they wouldn’t need to be here tonight.
Gretchen said a two story connector would be OK and you could minimize it
and keep it away from the historic resource.
Patrick said this application should be denied. The second story connector
has been a bad idea since the first meeting. A one story connector has been
preferred on every HPC decision made.
Michael said if you go to the design guidelines this project doesn’t meet any
of them as it sits.
Nora said our charge is to protect the historic structure. How are we
protecting the historic resource. I totally get the flow but that is not what we
should be looking at. The condition is that it should go under the eave and
that hasn’t happened.
Jim recused himself.
Michael pointed out that right now it looks like one house. There are many
things they can do to try and distinguish the historic resource from the
addition. This an opportunity to right the wrong’s. We are all steadfast that
this proposal doesn’t work.
Gretchen said she feels there is a solution under the eave.
Willis said he feels the board should revert to the previous approval and they
can decide whether they want to come back or not. It is way too prominent
and it is visible on two streets. They could work from the old resolution.
Michael asked if it was continued could they “right” some of the design
guidelines and work on the connection piece to satisfy everyone to make the
ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION
MINUTES OF MAY 25, 2016
13
addition a product of its own time and not make it look like it is part of the
historic house.
Willis said the glass connection does separate the two constructions more
than the existing one story connector which is painted blue.
Patrick pointed out that draperies will be put on the clear connector on both
floors and it won’t look separate at all. We can’t tell them what to do on the
inside.
Michael said they have an approval but if they go forward I don’t think it
would be great for the community. Continuation giving them the message
that they should try to achieve design excellence and do something that will
meet the design guidelines we will potentially see something better.
John said materiality and fenestration could separate the two drastically. I’m
up for leaving the conversation open one more time.
Michael said to me the optics of this entire thing is that the owner with their
paint colors etc. is trying to create one massive compound.
Patrick agreed.
Michael said if we continue this and they want to meet the design guidelines
and distinguish the addition from the historical resource it could be a great
project.
John said materiality and fenestration could achieve what is need ed.
Willis said they don’t have to come back at all because they have an
approval.
Gretchen said their approval is transparent and to be under the fascia.
Amy said it might end up having a different shape to it and different
materiality.
Gretchen said she would be happy to work with the applicant on the
previous approval. That is what we are looking for.
ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION
MINUTES OF MAY 25, 2016
14
MOTION: Patrick moved to deny the application for resolution #17;
second by Gretchen.
Roll call vote: Michael, no; John no; Nora, yes; Willis, yes; Patrick, yes;
Gretchen, yes. Motion carried 4-2.
MOTION: Willis moved to adjourn; second by Gretchen. All in favor,
motion carried. Meeting adjourned at 9:00 p.m.
Kathleen J. Strickland, Chief Deputy Clerk