HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.apz.19950627 RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
OVERLAY SUB-COP~ITTEE JUNE 27, 1995
Chairman Vickery opened the meeting at 4:00 p.m. and asked for roll
call.
Present were: Jake Vickery, Bruce Kerr, Donnelley Erdman. Excused
were Robert Blaich, Roger Moyer, and Steve Buettow.
COMMITTEE HE~BER COMMENTS
There were no comments.
STAFF HE~BER COMMENTS
Amidon stated, I have one comment, this should be our last meeting.
Vickery stated, there are some projects out there? Amidon stated,
there are two that are sort of hanging; one of them is sort of
across from Valley High, I think they were given some conditions
they were supposed to work with Leslie and I on, and we haven't
ever seen it. The other one is next door to Valley High, there was
a garage up in the front, Bob Braden's property. He is supposed to
be meeting with the Queen Victoria group at any time. I don't know
exactly how we are going to resolve that one, but it is still
hanging out there. Vickery stated, maybe, it could be referred to
the new committee. Amidon answered, yes.
Vickery asked, wasn't there one that Jack Hiller was doing? Amidon
answered, yes, and I have that one with me. Kerr asked, can we
discuss it? Amidon stated, well, I have inherited this project, so
I actually wasn't sure it really needed to come back to you or not,
so, I have it with me if you want to see it, but I've met with them
about it. Kerr asked, do you have a model or something like that?
Amidon answered, they gave us a doctored photo.
Erdman asked, how are you going to constitute a new committee?
Amidon answered, the ordinance actually said it would be 3 HPC
members and 2 or 3 P&Z members, the same as this. I think P&Z has
already possibly said who was going to do it, HPC hasn't talked
about it.
OVERLAY SUB-CO~ITTEE JUNE 27, 1995
PUBLIC COP~ENTS
There were no comments.
BELLOCK/MORRISON PROJECT
Amidon of staff stated, actually, this is Hary's case, and I don't
know where she is, so I'm scanning through this. It looks like the
staff recommends that the project be revised; the front setback and
the garage doors, possibly the garage should be separated as a
detached structure. The proposed circular driveway in the front of
the residence should be reduced.
Stan Mathis represented the applicant, Chuck Bellock. Mathis said,
I have read through the responses from staff, we are quandering
here with the front yard setback versus the desire of the City, to
be setback as far as we can in front of the Roaring Fork River. We
modified what was previously approved through a Stream Hargin
Review. We are back a greater distance in the new proposal.
Hathis stated, as far as dividing the garage from the house itself,
that is, I believe one of the directions that we tried to achieve
on the west end, that doesn't work, at least in my opinion.
However, we will eliminate the circular driveway.
Erdman asked, where is the parking for the ADU? Mathis showed on
the maps the area of the ADU parking. Kerr asked, where is it
shown, Stan? Mathis stated, well, for some reason you "guys" are
not looking at the same site plan that I am. Actually, Klm Johnson
worked on this before Hary, and there has been sort of a leak here
on staff members; I specifically delivered this site plan. There
was some revision of the site plans and discussion at random.
Erdman stated, staff has already made recommendations that the
garage not be such a prominent feature as part of the main mass of
the building. The 10 foot site plan, the circular drive is almost
impossible, the turning radius is really tight, so I just wondered,
what is being done with that?
Hathis stated, we are going to eliminate that turnaround totally,
and bring the driveway in around the north property line.
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OVERLAY SUB-COP~ITTEE JUNE 27, 1995
Vickery stated, I'm lost, in terms of knowing where this thing is,
this isn't a complete application, as far as I'm concerned.
Hathis stated, I provided a complete application, and I have a
letter that says so. The fact that we changed staff members, three
times, is not my fault.
Vickery stated, when we are talking about 78 feet, you are talking
about the face of the garage wall? Hathis responded, 70 feet would
probably be to the face of the garage. Vickery stated, so, to the
face of the main building wall, that would be? Hathis answered,
that would be more like another 24, all of 100 feet. Erdman
stated, that 100 feet would be consistent with what else is going
on in the neighborhood. Hathis stated, you can see on your site
plan there is an indication of where the existing house sits now,
and it's toward the river. So, I would say the face of the garage
is probably 35 feet closer to the road than many of the houses down
there, however, it's not the closest.
Erdmann stated, it says here in terms of building form, all the
guidelines are followed in the proposed structure, is that correct?
Hathis answered, that is correct. Erdmann asked, and also in the
architectural features, all the guidelines have been followed too?
Hathis answered, yes.
Kerr asked, staff brought up the circular drive, the entry, and the
guest parking, and all that? I guess I'm not as troubled by the
circular drive as it appears to be in front of the main entry where
guests would pull in and park. I'm curious why we would eliminate
the drive, and then leave the guests wondering where they are
supposed to go. Amidon responded saying, I believe the reason that
came up is because under driveways, in the general guidelines, it
specifically says, we don't encourage circular driveways because it
increases the amount of paving over. Kerr stated, I agree with not
increasing the amount of pavement, but they also talk in the
guidelines about entries, and how people get to the house, and if
the drive is eliminated, then it is just kind of left out there in
"no man's land".
MOTION
Erdman stated, I move that the Committee recommends the following
changes to the Bellock/Horrison residence on Lot 6, of Red Butte
Drive. The applicant will eliminate the circular drive entrance,
as the applicant has agreed to do, and will redo the drive toward
the north property line, that the point-of-entry into the house be
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OVERLAY SUB-CO~ITTEE JUNE 27, 1995
emphasized as much as possible through use of both hard and soft
landscape elements; that the prominence of the garage be reduced if
at all possible by reducing the overhangs on the north and south to
reduce the apparent size of the garage. Kerr seconded.
Vote commenced, vote was unanimous in favor, motion carried.
Discussion of Hotion
Vickery stated, I support the motion. I find, and I'm not having
too much trouble with the garage because it is a one-story mass, it
seems that the mass is pretty well broken down. Anyway, those are
my comments.
ALLEN - E. FRANCIS STREET
Amy Amidon of staff represented and stated, the project is in
Oklahoma Flats, and staff has found that the project is not in
compliance with the Neighborhood Character Guidelines for the
following reasons: first, under mass and scale. The finish and
character of the neighborhood was small-scale, single-family
residences, this was changed to, generally, larger and often over-
scaled residences. The house doesn't relate well to pedestrians on
E. Francis Street or on Gibson Avenue, where a very small portion
of the roofline may be visible to the street. The house steps up
the hillside, presenting a three-story facade. In terms of
building form, some houses in the area, new houses, have flat
roofs, but it is staff's opinion, in this case, it adds somewhat
less in residential scale of the project. In terms of
architectural features, the entry level of the house is mostly
garage door and there is not enought emphasis of where the entry
itself lies. Again, in terms of garages, staff recommends that
some effort be made to orient some of the garage in another
direction.
Stan Mathis presented for the owner, Doug Allen, stating, this is a
fairly unusual little piece of property, a little irregular in its
shape; we have some pretty severe topographical limitations. The
property can only be accessed through the lower side of Francis
Street extension (referring to site plan). The design proposes to
build back into the hillside a little bit.
Vickery asked, if you had to analyze how much of the site is 30% or
less, what would you say? Hathis answered, probably 30% of that
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OVERLAY SUB-COP~ITTEE JUNE 27, 1995
site is 30% or less. Vickery stated, in determining the amount of
FAR for this, under the old code, would you just take the size of
the site, and that's it? Hathis answered, that's right.
Erdman asked, this is a duplex? Hathis answered, no, it is a
single-family, with an ADU. Erdman asked, it's got four garages?
Hathis answered, it's got four parking spaces. It was asked what
zoning the property had. It was answered, it is R-15.
Vickery asked if there were any other comments. Vickery stated,
this whole slope thing isn't a factor on this house, under the old
code? Hary Lackner of staff responded saying, if he applied before
the revisions to the code, he is not subject to those. Vickery
asked, how about maximum height "stuff". Lackner responded, they
would have to comply under the code now.
MOTION
Kerr stated, in spite of finding (non-compliance) and staff's
recommendation that the project be revised as proposed to meet a
number of the Neighborhood Character Guidelines, we recommend that
the applicant strongly look at those recommendations of staff; I
make a motion to approve it, I guess. Erdman seconded. Voting
commenced, vote was unanimous in favor, motion carried.
Discussion of Motion
Vickery stated, this says (referring to memorandum), "Staff
recommends that the project be revised as described. In it's
current form, the new residence does not meet the Neighborhood
Character Guidelines, and should not be permitted to exceed 85% of
the allowed FAR". Do you want to go with that, I would like it
real clear? Kerr responded saying, my comment is, this is exactly
the kind of house that we are trying to prevent, and somewhat, it
is distressing that we have no means of dealing with it. The
finding, which I think I did include in the motion, the finding
that it's not in compliance, I know the public will say, how in the
world did that thing get approved. Ail we can say is, we didn't
approve it, but it slipped in.
The applicant stated, if you go and look at this house when it is
finished, it's going to be an award-winning architectural designed
house. It is going to be much smaller visually than five new
houses going in on this block right now, and physically it is much
smaller than most of them. It is going to be in the hill, behind
the trees, and on Gibson Avenue is it going to present a very low
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OVERLAY SUB-COP~ITTEE JUNE 27, 1995
facade. I think you will have a totally different opinion when it
is finished.
Vickery stated, I would like to encourage you to articulate it a
little bit more, in order to get some more interest. Break it up
and play with it a little more, so it is not this long, continuous,
consistent kind of treatment.
Hathis stated, for the record, we did have a complete application,
so there's no method in the future, that they could come back on
this project. You "guys" only had one sheet, and I think that's
important. (Some of the plans did not get into the member's
packets, and so did affect the course of the meeting and
presentations). Vickery stated, what I have seen, what was brought
here and presented here today, is not a complete application. The
applicant and Hathis stated they had submitted complete
applications. Amidon stated, I think the problem here is that all
these things were submitted to Klm and then Klm left here job, and
somehow some of the items were lost. Perhaps, there was a mistake.
Vickery stated, it's not the applicant's fault, and I don't think
it's going to change the outcome either. The applicant stated, I
want you to understand that we did everything exactly the way it is
supposed to be done. Kerr stated, you did in terms of process, you
submitted everything you were supposed to submit, but you didn't
design the house according to Neighborhood Guidelines; so, in that
sense, you didn't do everything that you should have done.
The applicant stated, I disagree with you, Bruce, there are houses
in that neighborhood that are more contemporary than this one, and
there are four or five of them.
JACK HILLER - 1103 WATERS AVENUE
Amidon presented for staff and stated, again, this was Kim's
project, but my understanding of the discussion was, that you
wanted some more definition of entry, you wanted the garage doors
to be recessed a bit more, and a landscaping plan. (Amidon
presented a drawing and presented). It appears, as far as I can
tell, to meet the conditions you have placed on it.
Kerr stated, so all they have done is demonstrate to staff that
they are complying with the conditions we have placed on their
approval? Amidon answered, yes. They got conditions, they got an
approval with conditions. Vickery stated, they did, are you sure?
OVERLAY SUB-COMMITTEE JUNE 27, 1995
It wasn't just a tabling? Amidon checked with Kathy Strickland,
the clerk regarding the minutes and responded saying, we can
double-check that. Strickland asked, what address was it, and what
meeting was it at? Erdman answered, it was two meetings ago, it
was the first Tuesday in June.
Amidon stated, I mislead them, I didn't realize that it had been
tabled; what Klm had reported back to me was, that they had
conditions, but it was supposed to be worked out by staff. So,
that's why it's not on your agenda.
There was discussion at random regarding the entranceway, and
garage.
Kerr stated, I think as just a matter of process it's unfair to
make any kind of a decision one way or the other. As much as I
hate it, and I may not be around to do it, I think it is only fair
to the applicant, to deal with it fully. He may be able to come in
and offer perfectly good explanations for what he has got.
Erdman stated, all I can recommend, is that we try to bend over
backwards; we're not having any more official meetings, can we do
it in a worksession, just a short worksession? Amidon answered,
yes, I guess you can establish whatever concerns you have and work
it out in a worksession, unless you want to call a meeting back
together. Erdman stated, a worksession is unofficial, so that's
the problem here. Vickery stated, is there any way to pass this on
to the new Committee? Amidon stated, that could be a slow process.
I guess what you could do is say what your concerns are and it
could be worked out at the staff level or with a small group, and
if that's not satisfactory to the applicant, then we can come back
in a meeting.
Vickery stated, we asked that the entrance be moved out, he didn't
move it out, but he did move the garage back. So, by doing that,
what it does, it increases the setback. The clerk, Kathy
Strickland stated, Jake, maybe I can help you. (Reading from
previous minutes), you said that it was suggested that we move it
out. Jack said, we cannot move it out, because we would have to
drop the ADU. I think that's why that was discussed.
Vickery stated, there is argument that they should get this 15%,
then they don't get it. If they don't get the 15%, then they just
have to go for whatever they want under the new code, or something
like that.
OVERLAY SUB-CO~ITTEE JUNE 27, 1995
Erdman asked, he didn't say what the new FAR was, so we have no
idea? Amidon answered, this cover sheet says total maximum, every
square foot. Erdman replied, still.
Vickery stated, there is concern about the second floor decks?
Kerr said, I had a concern about that as it creates a black hole on
the street.
Erdman stated, I'm most worried about the entry.
Vickery stated, Bruce has raised the point that we shouldn't take
any action on this, whatsoever. Erdman stated, I said we could
take action, but whatever action we take is going to require a
response from the applicant.
Vickery stated, can we just make some recommendations, and then,
pass the responsibility on to staff to follow through on the thing.
MOTION
Vickery stated, I make a recommendation to approve conditional on
applicant, providing a much-structured approach to emphasizing the
entry, perhaps by using structural log elements to create an
arcade. Reorganize the landscape plan by site landscaping elements
which help to frame the entrance pathway and move the trees in such
a way, not to obscure the front door, but to enhance its access.
We recommend that staff follow through on these recommendations,
and any questions regarding can be returned to the new Appeals
Committee. Kerr seconded. Vote commenced, vote was unanimous in
favor, motion carried.
Meeting was adjourned.
Respectfully submitted,
Sharon M. Carrillo, Deputy City Clerk
OVERLAY SUB-CO~ITTEE JUNE 27, 1995