HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.apz.20160920Regular Meeting Minutes Planning & Zoning September 20 2016
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Mr. Keith Goode, Chair, called the Planning & Zoning Commission (P&Z) meeting to order at 4:30 PM
with members, Spencer McNight, Jasmine Tygre, Kelly McNicholas Kury, Brian McNellis, Skippy Mesirow,
and Keith Goode.
Jason Elliott, Ryan Walterscheid, and Jesse Morris were not present for the meeting.
Also present from City staff; Debbie Quinn and Jennifer Phelan.
COMMISSIONER COMMENTS
There were no comments.
STAFF COMMENTS:
There were no comments.
PUBLIC COMMENTS:
There were no comments.
MINUTES
September 6, 2016 – Ms. Tygre noted there were two instances of Mr. Morris’s name in the second
paragraph of the minutes. She motioned to approve the minutes with the correction noted. Ms.
McNicholas Kury seconded the motion. All in favor, motion approved.
DECLARATION OF CONFLICT OF INTEREST
There were no declarations.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
Gorsuch Haus (S Aspen St/Lift 1A) – Planned Development – Continued Hearing
Mr. Goode informed the members of the audience there was a signup sheet for public comment (Exhibit
R). He then re-opened the continued hearing and turned the floor over to Staff.
Ms. Phelan, Deputy Planning Director, noted this is the fourth public hearing on the Gorsuch Haus which
is a proposed redevelopment at Lift 1A. She then explained the review process and noted P&Z will
provide a recommendation to City Council who makes a final decision.
She then summarized the letters received from the public (Exhibit T) since the agenda packet had been
published.
Ms. Phelan then summarized the third hearing in August, noting P&Z saw a modified site plan and
design of the proposed building. She stated the memo for this hearing includes essentially the same
proposal presented in August hearing with some minor refinements. In regards to the application for the
site and proposed development, Ms. Phelan stated the following:
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1. The site access has been opened up by removing a portion of the building on the northern end
of the project
2. The cul-de-sac has been enlarged
3. The lift location has been lowered slightly
4. The programing for the lodge has essentially stayed the same with the following:
81 lodge keys with 7 of those in a condo/lodge configuration with 21 lock off units
60 standard rooms
6 free market residential units
1 three-bedroom affordable housing unit
Commercial sf proposed including a restaurant, Aspen Ski Company (SkiCo) operations, and
parking
5. The building mass now cantilevers over S. Aspen St where it terminates in a cul-de-sac. The
lodge then climbs up the hill side in two, three and four story modules for approximately 330 ft
in length. The height ranges from 22 ft to 47 ft.
6. The proposed floor area is just over 70,000 sf.
Ms. Phelan then stated the floor area requested and the height proposed exceeds what is permitted for
both the Conservation Zone District (current zoning for the property) and the Lodge Zone District
(district assigned to neighboring properties).
She then noted Staff finds the design of the building in regards to materials within in context. However,
Staff still feels the building is out of scale with the neighborhood context and inappropriate given the
sites topography. The proposed building is predominantly a four story building above grade and expands
over a block face in length going up the hill side.
The applicant has made some improvements to the proposed lot configurations and are still requesting
vacations of certain public right of ways (ROWs) including part of S. Aspen St, part of Hill St and all of
Summit St. Staff is concerned on some aspects of lot one’s configuration and the engineering
department is still concerned regarding the design of the cul-de-sac, the request to vacate the City’s
ROWs and the cantilevered portion of the building over the public ROW.
There are a number of land use reviews requested. Overall, staff finds the review criteria on some of the
standards are not met. Specifically, with regard to planned development (PD), staff does not find the site
plan allows the development to blend in with the natural characteristics and physical constraints of the
site. The project is not compatible with the neighborhood based on the size and height proposed. The
perceived mass and scale needs to be reduced and the building should better integrate with the
landscape as noted in the commercial design standards.
With regard to subdivision criteria, the project still needs to work on guaranteed access to the street for
the lots being proposed. Although the configuration of lots has improved, it still needs work.
Staff does not support vacating of the City’s ROWs because it has not been shown this is in the best
interest of the City.
With regard to the 8040 Greenline review, staff does not believe the proposal maintains the mountain
as a scenic resource or the height and bulk has been minimized.
Ms. Phelan stated this is the fourth meeting on this proposal and staff still feels there needs to be
significant changes to the mass and scale of the proposed lodge and more refinement on the site plan.
At this point, staff is recommending P&Z consider a recommendation of denial to the City Council.
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Mr. Goode asked if there were questions for staff.
Mr. Mesirow feels the criticisms from staff have been growing in breadth and specificity and asked why.
Ms. Phelan does not feel they are growing. She noted staff has always stated the mass and scale of the
project needed to be reduced and changes needed to occur to the site plan which were the
fundamental issues and she feels they have not been addressed. She also noted there are a lot of other
little things such as the sizing of the cul-de-sac, ROW vacations, and lot configurations. She feels the site
plan and design issues are primarily driving the project need to be addressed before the other issues can
be resolved. The other issues are dependent upon the primary issues.
Mr. Goode then turned the floor over to the applicant.
Mr. Jim DeFrancia, representing Norway Island LLC, is joined by Mr. Richard Shaw of Design Workshop.
He feels they have addressed staff’s issues. He then asked Mr. Jeff Gorsuch to comment first about the
project.
Mr. Gorsuch thanked the commission and staff. He stated he and Bryan Peterson wanted to bring the
right project for the top of S. Aspen St and were inspired by their love for skiing. He stated this year
marks the following:
80th year for the Aspen Valley Ski and Snowboard Club
70th anniversary for skiing on Aspen Mountain
50th anniversary for world cup skiing
He feels the project embraces the history and magic of skiing on Aspen Mountain. He also feels a lot of
people do not have a memory of what this part of town used to be and they wanted to bring back the
charm and personality previously provided by the Holland House and Skier’s Chalet. He personally feels
they have the responsibility and opportunity to honor the early ski pioneers. He added he is a dreamer,
not a developer. His family’s history and Aspen’s history go hand in hand. He believes Aspen has been
asking for a new lift and a hotel for a long time and he feels this is the right project by the right people
with the right team. He asked P&Z to look at the facts and the work that has been done and give his
family the opportunity to create a base that serves everyone.
Mr. DeFrancia noted staff’s comments stating this area is appropriate for lodge use. In addition, access
and neighborhood compatibility are important in creating a vital base area. He then stated the essence
of this application is a new lift and a lodge and those are the elements P&Z should focus on. A further
community goal is that the lift and base area should contribute to the identity of the town. He reiterated
this area is the beginning of skiing in Aspen and was the site of the first World Cup in the US. He stated
this site is the identity of Aspen as a ski town but sadly it is presently dilapidated and neglected. This
project will restore and revive this identity. As for community benefits, the new lift clearly provides
dramatic improved convenient public access and the lodge provides the vitality called for at a base area.
Mr. Richard Shaw then discussed the merits of the project in further detail. He stated they tried to make
responsive amendments to the original submission which included the following.
1. Lift 1A needs a public portal that is visible and welcoming
Modifications to improve the views to new lift
Enhanced terminus to S Aspen St for public access including turn around
Year round multi use access utilizing public bus transportation
2. New ski lift
New lift will replace a 45-year-old lift
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Proposal provides for mazing, entrances, a slow-down area and easy access
New lift will be high speed technology
Access improved over existing conditions
3. Restore historic lift 1 corridor
Building masses moved to maintain the views of the corridor
Skier return modified to allow for ability to return to Dean St
4. Increase size of arrival for unloading and public access
Enlarged the turnaround
Incorporated areas for loading and unloading
Improved surrounding pedestrian space
Improved American Disabilities Act (ADA) standards access including an elevator providing
slope side access
Addressed engineering requirements and concerns
5. Reduced scale and mass of building
20% reduction in scale and mass
Increased operational efficiency of building
Included greater architecture variation to break up building facade
He then provided a slide depicting a site plan and elevations comparing the location of the current and
proposed lifts. The existing lift loads at an elevation of 8,018 ft. The new lift proposed to load at an
elevation of 8,016.5 ft.
He then provided a slide and discussed the comparisons of the approaches to the gondola, existing lift
1A, and proposed lift. He stated there will be direct access with the new lift. He noted the linear ft for
each approach to the loading point. He also provided a slide comparing the elevation changes for each
approach.
a. Gondola: 260 linear ft (lf) traversing about 19 ft in elevation gain
b. Existing Lift 1A: 265 lf and 15 ft in elevation gain assuming drop off at the dumpster
c. Proposed approach: 160 lf and 16.5 ft in elevation gain
Mr. Shaw then provided a slide depicting a map of the route for the proposed transportation strategy.
He stated the shuttle is simple, direct and frequent with eight trips per hour. The shuttle will be 4WD
providing a safe link between the base area and Rubey Park.
He then provided a slide showing existing conditions and the proposed enhanced environment. He
reiterated the ski lift is visible upon arrival and the return skiing forms part of the identity of the
entrance. He also provided a video portraying a skier arriving at the cul-de-sac and walking up the stairs
to the lift mazing area.
Mr. Shaw displayed a site plan and discussed subdividing the land in regards to how it should happen
and what should be included. He stated their first modification was to reduce the number of lots from
four existing lots to two lots which are more rectangular. In regards to vacating the ROWs, he noted half
the street below them has been vacated. Summit St is in the middle of what they perceive as the ski run
today. S. Aspen St has had half of it vacated for projects located below their site. They are proposing to
do the same thing that has already been done in the ROWs. The ROWs were originally generated by a
planning scheme that could never be implemented due to the topography of the site. There is no
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vehicular access to use of the ROWs. The City does have a need for a number of utilities and they are
suggesting in lieu of the ROWs, they would grant permanent easements to allow all the functions
necessary for the utility systems. In addition, they would not modify the public’s access to the property
in any way. They would maintain skier, pedestrian access through recreational easements on the
proposed plat.
Mr. Shaw then discussed the sizing of the project. He provided a slide showing a table comparing the
average individual room size for the proposed lodge, Lift One Lodge, The Little Nell, Residences of the
Little Nell, Sky Hotel, St. Regis, Jerome and Limelight. Their proposed average room size is a modest 417
sf which was the smallest of all the entities identified on the table. The same slide compared the number
of keys/lodging rooms as well and the proposed lodge has 81 keys. This project is similar in size to the
Lift One Lodge, Little Nell Hotel and remarkably smaller than the larger hotels in Aspen.
Mr. Shaw next provided a slide showing the view of the project from the Wheeler Opera House. He
showed a picture of the existing view and another picture with the completed project which he noted
does not significantly alter the view. The project is invisible from Main St so he did not show anything for
that view plane.
Mr. Shaw then provided a map indicating the location of one, two, three, four and five story buildings in
Aspen. He stated the area of the project contains two, three and four story structures. He then displayed
another map identifying the height of neighborhood buildings. The heights ranged up to 53 ft. A broader
view of building heights was then displayed and he noted there are many buildings higher than the
proposed height of the Gorsuch Haus. The average height across the Gorsuch Haus project only contains
about 94% of the building below the height limit. He noted both historic and recently approved projects
include a wide variety and it is not unusual to have sections of find five and six story structures in this
neighborhood and within the context P&Z is evaluating.
He provided elevation slides of the project and discussed the vertical separations, color variations,
material variations strategies used along with light and shadows created by balconies to make the
building appear smaller and respond carefully to height and mass.
He then discussed how the historic view corridors have been maintained including the uphill and
entrance views.
He provided a slide of the neighborhood context showing the distances between the buildings. He then
described density as not only the square footage, but also how is the structure built in relationship with
other buildings. He noted the following distances between the Gorsuch Haus and its neighbors. He
stated the other neighboring buildings
56 ft to the north
67 ft to the west
135 ft to the east
He pointed out the density being closer on other neighboring buildings are as small as 4 ft and ranges of
20-29 ft. He stated the density in the neighborhood is much greater than the Gorsuch Haus in terms of
its relationship with other buildings.
He then reviewed the FAR values of other lodge entities including Lift One, One Aspen Townhomes,
Little Nell, Residences at Little Nell, Sky Hotel, North of Nell and Jerome. He stated Gorsuch Haus has 1.5
FAR as proposed.
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He also stated total floor area is another way to measure the size of a project and noted Gorsuch Haus is
about 70,000 sf and noted the size of other lodges. He does not feel this project is massive when
compared with other lodges.
He then provided a new slide identifying public benefits:
New lift located in its lowest place
Improved lift access
Functioning ski base
Skier services
ADA access
Après ski deck
Slope-side restaurant
Improved connection to Summit and Monarch streets by granting pedestrian access
Ajax trail connection is a possibility
Improved terminus to S Aspen St
Public transportation available for the entire neighborhood
Improved skier return to Dean St.
A video was then shown depicting a skier coming off the west side of Aspen Mountain.
Mr. Shaw stated the project will have a presence in the neighborhood. He stated they have compatibility
with the neighborhood which is lodging. This area needs completion of the entire idea as a hotel. Mr.
Shaw stated past proposals were for much larger projects. This project is much more modest in scale.
There will be an emphasis to fit in.
He then provided a slide depicting showed pics of existing conditions and noted the existing base area
does not serve the community. He added the building which is currently blocking the corridor will be
removed.
He told P&Z they have the chance to define the future and no one will criticize P&Z for the approval of a
recommended new lift, suggesting there should be a new public base, providing transportation to the
new lift and their leadership for thinking of the possibilities for a revitalized neighborhood at the top of S
Aspen St.
Mr. DeFrancia provided closing comments. He feels they have address previous concerns with size,
height, neighborhood compatibility, and skier access. He asked them to approve the resolution and
provide observations and concerns for conditions to be attached to the resolution.
Mr. Goode asked for questions of the applicant.
Mr. Mesirow stated one of P&Z’s concerns previously stated was the contentious relationship between
Lift One Lodge owners and the applicant regarding lift placement and skier return. He asked if there had
been any progress on this subject. Mr. DeFrancia replied the changes had been reflected in the original
application that evolved from several meetings and discussions with Lift One Lodge. He stated they had
asked for wider separation between the buildings. Mr. Mesirow then asked if there had been any
discussion since the last P&Z meeting to which Mr. DeFrancia replied no because they already addressed
their comments and there have been no other requests. He added the lift alignment remains as it has
been proposed and does not preclude them from any actions they may want to take. He concluded
stating they are out of the way.
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Mr. McNellis asked them to elaborate about 20% reduction of the size because he had heard 7% from
other reports. Mr. Shaw discussed they consolidating the public spaces and service areas, collapsed two
story spaces within the building. In total, the program did not change much, what changed was the
amount of land area or building area exposed above grade. More sf has been placed below grade and
reorganized for efficiencies. The 20% reduction is about the surface area of the elevations. They have
pressed the building down closer to the grade. He added the 7% represents a reduction in the footprint
and utilizes the portion of the building cantilevered over the cul-de-sac.
Mr. McNellis stated a real sticking point was the vacating of public ROWs and asked how the project
maintains the easements. Mr. Shaw stated in some cases, half of the street has already been vacated for
other reasons. He noted there are some significant utilities crossing the site including a line connecting a
water tank to town. Right now in order to rebuild and update the water tank feed, there is an easement
allowing for the water line. He stated part of the ROW is used and part is through an easement granted
by SkiCo. They are suggesting to straighten out and widen the easement without any features over the
top of the areas. The permanent easements would be granted to the City of Aspen. Additional utilities to
be addressed include storm water management. The difficulty with the ROWs is that they don’t actually
go where the utilities actually need to run. Mr. Shaw stated there are not currently vehicular access to
the ROWs because they are too steep. The cul-de-sac makes a better use of the property and a better
emergency access.
Mr. McNellis asked Ms. Phelan if the Engineering department has had time to review this information.
She answered that she received an email from Engineering stating most of the original comments stand
and they are concerned about vacating ROWs. She adding vacating the ROWs also allows the building to
be on part of the public ROW. She concluded they need to ask for the public benefit for removing the
ROWs above the need to address the utilities.
Mr. Mesirow noted the applicant team’s statements of not maximizing the area but the project is clearly
significant larger in SF than what is allowed in the zoning as well as if it were Lodge zoning. He asked
them to elaborate why they need it without comparing it to other properties. Mr. Shaw stated the
Lodge zone only gives a baseline, not a comparison to what actually would be constructed. He continued
stating in the Lodge zone district there are number of provisions including the lot size, which could allow
for a much larger building than what has been proposed. He said there is a sliding scale of unit size that
relates to the number of lodging units per sf of land and the Lodge zone district provides for a wide
range. He believes the proposed rooms and public spaces are small, but adequate for a successful hotel.
The proposed hotel has more space around it because it is dedicated to skiing and that is why you need
the flexibility to adapt the lift, the access, the drop off, and the public portal for the right size project to
be compatible with the neighborhood. Mr. Mesirow asked if the adaptability is what makes the Ski Base
(SKI) zone mandatory for the project. Mr. Shaw replied it is the only zoning which allows for the
proposed uses.
Mr. Mesirow asked if the average sf of 417 includes all rooms such as the fractional and free market
rooms. Mr. Shaw replied it only the lodging rooms are included in the calculation of the average sf. Mr.
Mesirow then asked if the average room size for the fractional and fee market rooms was larger. Mr.
Shaw stated it is not fractional, it is condominiums and they are counted in the sf of the unit size. The
free market rooms are not. The free market is proposed to be 1,500 sf to 1,900 sf which are two and
three bedroom units and are not giant penthouses. Ms. Jesse Young, Design Workshop, noted if the
condo units are factored in, the average is approximately 522 sf.
Mr. McNellis noted the applicant stating the lift was among the community benefits. He agrees it would
be huge, but feels it is an amenity of SkiCo, not the applicant. Mr. Shaw responded the lift will not be
replaced unless the project is built. He added the density of the project is required to make the new lift
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possible. Mr. McNellis stated it should not be listed as a benefit. Mr. DeFrancia stated this is not an
award for SkiCo, but an obligation.
Ms. McNicholas Kury asked Ms. Quinn if there is a way for P&Z to obligate the approval with the
replacement of the lift as a condition. Ms. Quinn stated P&Z is making a recommendation to City Council
who could address it.
Mr. Mesirow understands the benefits of having a revitalized base, but feels it should be a positive
community focused space and he asked why the contention with the Lift One Lodge has not been
addressed. Mr. DeFrancia stated he communicated with Mr. Brown over a month ago that he would be
happy to meet to show him the latest changes. Mr. Brown thanked him and replied he would be
travelling and would contact him upon his return. Mr. DeFrancia stated he never heard back from Mr.
Brown. He suggested Mr. Mesirow ask Mr. Brown about what he finds objectionable. Mr. Gorsuch
added he applauds Mr. Brown regarding their project. He added they are real estate developers, doing
great work in Aspen. He stated he had meetings with them as early as 2014 to share his vision. He stated
they had open discourse last summer at the Design Workshop offices. He felt they worked to have the
buildings speak to each other. He is not sure of the disconnect, but feels they both have great projects.
He does not feel their project’s building is in the way of the lift. He added many of the Home Owner
Associations (HOAs) are looking forward to having vitality brought to the area. He stated they are still
listening and feels this meeting with P&Z as a leadership group to identify the tolerances so the project
can move forward.
Mr. Mesirow asked them to draw a picture of a race day once the project has been completed. Mr.
Gorsuch showed a slide of racing finish and discussed what it would be like to walk to the viewing stands
and the finish. Mr. DeFrancia added the race finish and grand stands will be where it has always been.
Mr. Goode asked why the dropped from four lots to two lots. Mr. Shaw stated the land had four
subdivided lots originally left over from different transactions. Originally they thought they would
consolidate into four lots to accommodate the hotel, skier access and areas of Government Lot 31 which
is located in Pitkin County. When they discussed with staff, they determined they could do it with only
two lots.
Mr. Goode stated P&Z had asked for more cooperation at the previous hearing and he wanted to
confirm no changes had been made regarding the lift placement. Mr. DeFrancia stated everyone in town
would like to see the lift go down to Dean St. He added they can only control the land to which the lift is
on their property. They have provided a lift placement and accessibility to the lift that is an
improvement from what currently exists. The alignment is such that the lift could come down lower. For
it to come down lower is a function of the landowner below them, the Browns and the Lift 1 Lodge as
well as the restrictions on the property including the City and the Aspen Valley Land Trust (AVLT). It also
involves SkiCo to deal with the operational functions of having the lift lower on the mountain. He said
there is nothing they can do beyond providing a placement to allow it to go down which they would
support.
Mr. Goode opened for public comment.
Ms. Marcia Goshorn stated life of skiing was on this side of town in 1960. This project will bring this
back. She feels it is a small lodge that could fit into the gems of Aspen. She added the wholesalers, tour
operators and ski clubs are still looking for small lodges. She feels this is the best location for ski based
lodging and it could bring skiers from the Gondola area. The access from Rubey park alone opens this
side of the mountain up. The ROWs would probably improve access for the City because they would be
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in better places. She noted this area used to have smaller lodges but are now gone. The corridor for the
lift to come down is available and she understands the project below is required to do something.
Ms. Junee Kirk, stated she was part of second Lift 1A COWOP and feels this project has really made
amends to adapt to the community needs in that they have reduced the mass and scale. Usually the
design guidelines for larger structures at the bottom of the mountain. She feels it fits in with the
neighborhood. She has had the opportunity to walk the property with a planner working with the
applicant and was amazed that it didn’t extend further up the mountain than it shows. It is almost equal
with the Mountain Queen and did not extend much further than the Shadow Mountain Condominiums.
She feels staff’s advisement in the last meeting to reduce the mass and design with a flat roof was a
mistake. In order to keep the historic character of the area, it would be better to have roofline similar to
Shadow Mountain. She feels a 20% reduction is significant and the public ROW is a nonissue since the
lodges below have vacated ROWs. She asked how many people want to take a Poma lift up from Dean St
and feels the likelihood is zero.
Mr. Dave Bellack, stated for 20 years he was Sr. Vice President of SkiCo and added he has no financial
interest in the project. He also was a member of the unfortunate COWOP process as both COWOP
efforts were voted down by Council. He feels this project is consistent with what had been identified by
the COWOP processes and he feels the area needs to be revitalized.
Mr. Jeff Halferty, HPC member, stated a big regret HPC had was losing the Holland House and Skier’s
Chalet. He also participated on the COWOPs. He feels the applicant has listened and made adjustments
based on comments from staff and the commission regarding mass, access, and ski corridor. He
applauds the commission for making this a better project. He thinks the City will gain a wonderful asset
and it will provide wonderful benefits to the community. He closed by asking P&Z to recommend it to
Council with an affirmative.
Mr. Rob Snyder stated when he first skied Aspen, lift 1A was a brand new lift. Having lived here for over
the past 40 years, he has consistently seen a clash between the City’s history and basic change. He feels
this area has become a ghost town and sees this as an opportunity to create a real local’s portal. He has
seen other projects go through the process and stated if you keep chipping away you end up with
something that doesn’t work for the builder or the community. Lastly, having known Mr. Gorsuch and
his family for 40 years, he can’t think of a better group to take this on.
Ms. Marissa Lasky has been in Aspen a long time and feels the City has one chance to get this right. She
hopes they consider the whole project down to Dean St. She acknowledged she lives on Dean at South
Point. Everyone in the building objects to shuttles running every seven minutes. She would like to see
some type of lift for locals down to Dean St. She stated she was on a zoning board for 15-16 years and
she is sensitive to staff’s recommendations and what the people want to see. She does feel the rubber
tire solution is viable.
Mr. Stefan Kaelin has been a retailer in town for 42 years. He raced in 1964 and won the GS. In regards
to the international ski community, this area is a disgrace. He urged P&Z to move forward with this
project. He feels there has been lots of progress with commercial buildings in town, but not on this side
of the hill.
Ms. Toni Kronberg thanked P&Z and the public for being at the meetings. She asked if a letter she sent
had been received and distributed. Ms. Phelan replied it was in the agenda packet. She state if staff’s
recommendations had been met, there is one fatal flaw with the project which she identified as the
Transportation Impact Assessment (TIA) study on S Aspen St. This project will not pass if you look at the
criteria and the TIA. She also noted the neighbors are not speaking to each other. She feels Mr. Brown
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does not want a lift coming onto his property. Since the City owns S. Aspen St, she asked what if the lift
came down S. Aspen St. She feels S. Aspen St is very dangerous and should be snow melted. She asked
the Gorsuch team to speak with the City, bypassing Mr. Brown to meet the community’s goals.
Mr. Michael Brown, Lift One Lodge, noted he is perturbed. He stated all the overtures made by the
group have never been made in earnest. They have not been interested in providing a landing spot for a
platter lift which became apparent to him. He stated last year in the fall they met with the Gorsuch team
and SkiCo who asked them to look at a proposal to land the lift lower on the eastern side of their site
where the Skier’s Chalet Lodge is today. He also noted their project had already been approved. He
stated they spoke over a period of 60-90 days and came up with an alternate plan to land a gondola into
the Skier’s Chalet at the behest of SkiCo. He did not feel it would be possible to forego their entitlement,
spend two years in planning, and obtain a vote of the community. They presented the plan and he
stated Mr. Gorsuch was intrigued by the plan. When they followed up with Mr. DeFrancia a week later,
he responded they like their project as it was and their chances and they wanted to proceed. Mr. Brown
feels the best that could happen for the piece of property is for it to revert back to SkiCo who has the
most at stake for creating a great mountain and can collaborate with the neighbors. He is not aware of
one HOA that supports the Gorsuch project. He hopes it is not too late for this opportunity.
Mr. Bart Johnson, Lift One Lodge, stated the COWOP is worth looking at and noted an approved site
plan on page 12 of Staff’s memo. He wanted to point out the building highest on the site plan and noted
it is about 100 ft lower on the mountain than what is currently proposed. He feels the project provides
community benefits, but there is a cost. He feels the order is wrong having the lift tagged on to the
hotel. Whatever gets approved will spur a new lift and it doesn’t have to be this project. In regards to
the SKI zoning district, he wanted remind everyone this zone was created for Aspen Highlands when the
City annexed the property from the County because the property did not fit into any of the existing zone
districts at the time. He feels the Norway ski run has fallen off the table. If you stay on the left side of the
run, you will have to take off your skis, and walk around the plaza. He also encouraged P&Z to look at
staff’s recommendation regarding the 8040 Greenline.
Mr. Craig Platt is an owner at Shadow Mountain. He bought here because it is in conservation area. He
doesn’t feel the City has addressed accessing the area. He feels allowing the hotel here will change what
conservation is about. According to the developers, it was zoned Conservation because they didn’t know
what to do with it. He feels skiers coming down Norway will be utilizing a narrow corridor of 67 ft
between the buildings. In regards to transportation to the area, he feels it is one of the most dangerous
places in town today. I’m shocked the City could imagine buses and delivery vehicles traveling this street
at night. He stated their HOA has huge concerns with blocked views and encroachments as well as noise
issues.
Mr. Tom Elbert, feels the goal of the city should be to bring the platter down to Durant St and create a
people mover up the hill. This should be initiated by the City. He feels the community wants something
like the gondola and feels the board should lead instead of react. He feels all the hotel projects are
worthy, but the City should vacate S. Aspen St and bring a gondola down. He stated the City should start
with a premise and then find a solution
Mr. Matt Ferguson stated he is a friend of Gorsuch family and would prefer P&Z approve this with
conditions. He heard the adjacent developer state they are not getting along and SkiCo should be
developing it which is not a reason to oppose it. This project should be held up because the adjacent
land owner does not agree with it.
Mr. Goode then closed public comment portion of the hearing.
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Mr. Goode then asked the applicant to respond to the public comment.
Mr. DeFrancia stated they have already responded to the business of the lift going lower. He stated it is
out of their control. They would be happy do everything they can to facilitate it.
In response to Mr. Brown, Mr. DeFrancia stated they deal in earnest with people of integrity. He stated
they do not hold themselves as skiing experts, SkiCo is the expert and they speak to the skiing issues.
Again, they would support anything to land the lift lower. He stated they have been speaking with this
group for years and met on several occasions. They met in detail last November and the Lift One team
presented a plan showing the prospect of a middle location for landing the lift and having SkiCo perhaps
making it a gondola. Part of this included Mr. Brown losing a building if they did this. Mr. DeFrancia
stated they responded that this would be fine, but Mr. Brown had an additional request to be allowed to
intrude on to their site with a building that was displaced by the proposed gondola. Mr. Brown
suggested this may take up to 100 ft. Mr. DeFrancia stated they responded with possibly 40 ft, but not
100 ft. They also offered to have their architects work with Mr. Brown’s team. Mr. DeFrancia was aware
Mr. Brown was preparing to seek an amendment to his approval and suggested it would be a good time
to bring up the changes. In the meantime, they would proceed with their own approval. Mr. DeFrancia
stated Mr. Brown responded that they would simply oppose their project. Mr. DeFrancia stated they
responded by creating the “knuckle” on the original building to move away from their building. They had
earlier proposed a different transport system, which the Lift One Team did not want on their property.
Mr. DeFrancia feels there is a bit of distortion regarding their lack of communication with the Lift One
Lodge owners.
In response to the others requesting the lift be brought down lower, he thinks it is a great idea but it is
out of their control. He noted they have assured an alignment to allow the lift to be brought down
lower.
Mr. DeFrancia appreciates the concern of buses going up and down S. Aspen St, but they are proposing
smaller vans, not big busses. He feels the impact will be minimal.
Mr. Shaw wanted to address changing the building in response to its relationship on Norway. He stated
the technology of the new lift requires a certain amount of space before it can proceed up the hill. The
requirements for the space by the lift, not the building impact the skier return. He feels the majority of
all the skiing has been accommodated by the positioning of the lift.
In regards to ROWs, he asked how many people attending the meeting have utilities in easements and
not ROWs. He added everyone does because it is a common, modern way of dealing with utilities. When
ROWS are platted on topography that makes no sense, the easement will only improve the situations.
In regards to comment about the conservation zone district, Mr. Shaw stated they discussed examples
where other areas zoned conservation now represents the Little Nell Hotel and the Aspen Alps.
Mr. Shaw wanted to reflect on comments made at the last meeting discussing the operational and
functional difficulties of the platter lift. He stated the Colorado Tramway board has confirmed the issues
having uphill and downhill traffic at the same time on the run down the hill.
Mr. DeFrancia wanted to address the road conditions on S Aspen St. He state the Lift One Lodge
approval includes the infrastructure for a boiler to address the situation. He added the applicant would
be okay with a condition to include collaboration on this effort.
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Mr. Mesirow asked the applicant how they are asking for SKI zoning because it is a full package including
skiing but they have no ability to change the lift. Mr. DeFrancia stated they can only change the lift on
their property only.
Mr. Goode then closed this portion of the hearing.
Mr. Goode then opened for discussion.
Ms. McNicholas Kury reiterated comments heard a year ago from the Community Development
Department how this part of town could be one plus one equals three. She feels they are so far from this
and there are some bad partners in this including the City. She feels the City should have been more
involved in cultivating a conversation regarding this part of town and addressing bringing the lift further
down. She feels P&Z has provided direction and they have not seen anything materialize. She is very
torn and will look at this project in isolation because it her only option. She feels the applicant is at a
disadvantage being second to the table. She recognizes some public benefit with the proposed use and
feels the SKI zone is appropriate. She is concerned regarding the size of the building and how far the
building is going up the hill. She does not feel the applicant has recognized the need of a greater balance
with public benefit. She feels P&Z has been consistent across applications and has asked for responses
to detailed criteria and does not predominately feel even the minor criteria have been addressed even
up to the fourth meeting.
Mr. McKnight recognizes the frustration experienced with the previous efforts to revitalize this area of
town. He feels piecemealing it with one-off projects is not the way to revitalize the base area. In looking
at what this project offers, he appreciates a lot of efforts by the applicant. He likes how the building
steps up the hill, but still believes it is too big of a building. The mass, size and height is an issue. He feels
this project is on a path to be something remarkable, but is not there yet. Because this area is such a
special place, he cannot support it at this time. He feels the building size and the other commissioner’s
comments need to be addressed. He feels the public benefit presented is great, but leans toward the
hotel guests and the free market owners, rather than the general community or visitors. He feels the
necessary changes have not yet occurred.
Ms. Tygre motioned to continue to 7:15 pm and seconded by Mr. Mesirow. All approved, motion
carried.
Mr. McNellis is passionate that something needs to happen to revitalize this side of the mountain. He is
excited about the possibilities but believes the building scale and mass are too large and would like to
see it brought in with the scale of the mountain. He believes there needs to be a higher standard given it
will be the highest building on the mountain, it is located in a Greenline area, and is currently zoned
Conservation. The building will be very visible from other portions of town and you will see eight stories
in its profile. He believes the PD is typically reserved for a remarkable project. Although the
development team has addressed many of his issues, but not quite all issues. His remaining issues to be
addressed include the following:
He remains concerned how the project encroaches on the historic ski hill and possibly constrains
the ski run, specifically the meeting and patio areas.
He wants to ensure the all the easements and trees are respected in the area.
He is still concerned how the Norway ski run will be impacted.
He is concerned with the latest design including the encroachment over the cul-de-sac that will
be deeded to the City. He feels it was a big gesture by the applicant to move a portion of the
building to allow pedestrian access, but believes the projection of the building over the ROW
privatizes the cul-de-sac.
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He believes there may be other methods to improve the easement situations and would like
confirmation from engineering prior to pushing the project forward.
He recognizes the lift as an amenity, but will not push the project forward just to get a new lift.
The lift will follow the right project.
If the board would entertain an approval, he would like a condition for approval for snowmelt to
be included.
Ms. McNicholas Kury expressed she is okay with the FAR and total sf as presented although she would
like to see an option to break up the mass of the building. Although it was not part of any option
presented, she would be open to a condition that proposes breaking up the mass of the building. Mr.
Mesirow stated without having any idea how it would be broken up, he could not agree with adding that
as a condition.
Ms. Tygre agrees with the other commissioners on many points. She agrees the mass of building could
possibly be split up, but she is not sure that would allow for efficient operations. She also feels it is not
up to the commission to design the project and would feel uncomfortable having a condition for a
redesign. She believes the rubber tire solution for lift access is not a viable solution. She doesn’t
understand why it was possible to have a lift from Dean St in the 1960’s and now it can’t be done. She
does not want to go forward with approvals until the project is one that everyone wants to see. She
feels it is unfortunate the neighbors are squabbling but it doesn’t absolve the commission from its
responsibilities to the community.
Ms. McNicholas Kury asked Ms. Tygre if there was any mechanism the commission could suggest to
incentivize, such as matching escrows to the downslope neighbors as a condition for approval. Ms. Tygre
feels it may take more because of all the organizations involved including the applicants, neighbors,
SkiCo and the City. She stated the City may have interest in completely realigning the lift to take
advantage of S. Aspen St or other locations. She added all of this goes beyond an individual project.
Mr. Mesirow acknowledged Mr. Gorsuch’s investment into the community as well as members of the
audience. He agrees with a revitalization of the area as big community benefit. He doesn’t feel the
proposal is there yet. He noted he often feels he is in a positon of interpreting and enforcing existing law
and not to make policy. He believes because the applicant is requesting a SKI zoning district, it is
appropriate to suggest how the project could be improved. He feels P&Z has suggested improvements at
each meeting and each time has been effectively dismissed. The first suggestion being the removal or
significant reduction of the free market residential component. He believes there is a better use of this
space which speaks to the vision provided by the applicant. Secondly, a better arrival/departure solution
and a lift option that goes lower. He understands the complications with that but feels there a many
options to get there. Lastly, although he recognizes it is not entirely in the applicant’s control, he feels
better relations with their neighbors is important. Tonight, he cannot support the project until some of
his concerns are addressed.
Mr. Goode stated the historic nature of the location is something he did not experience. He wants to
believe in the proposal, but feels it needs to address all parties. He is almost there, but feels the size is
still an issue. He doesn’t feel it is a small lodge, but he doesn’t want to see this building from Smuggler.
He would also like to see the lift down to Dean St.
Ms. Quinn asked the applicant to provide a copy of everything presented at the hearing. She added
there are two choices for the applicant. One is a request for continuance or taking recommendation of
denial to Council.
Ms. Tygre moved to make a recommendation of denial which was not seconded.
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Mr. Goode asked Mr. DeFrancia if the applicant wanted a continuance. Mr. DeFrancia stated there is
nothing they can do to bring the lift lower down. Mr. Mesirow stated they have asked the past three
meetings to try to engage and a discussion has not even happened. Ms. Quinn asked him to respond if
he wanted a continuance or not. Mr. DeFrancia stated they are happy with a continuance but he does
not want to give false expectations as there are things they simply cannot do.
Ms. Tygre’s motion was seconded. Ms. Quinn referred to the resolution included in the packet and
outlined the necessary changes for it to be a recommendation of denial.
Change the title caption to state denial.
On page 2 of 10 of the draft resolution, Section one would state denial rather than approval
It would not be subject to any conditions for approval
The remaining sections are not necessary from section 2 beyond.
The portion at the end of the section discussing the items P&Z have requested of the applicant.
Ms. Tygre then removed her motion.
Ms. McNicholas Kury stated she wants to be an advocate for a lodge in this area even if this project has
not met what she need to approve it. She does not feel the City has shown up in this part of town to
resolve the lift issue and they are the only true steward who can resolve the issue. She asked if
something could be included in the resolution. Ms. Quinn stated if the commission felt strongly about
this, they could include a statement. Mr. McNellis stated there have been instances when projects have
moved on to Council and have been resolved. He feels these issues may be resolved at Council and they
could kick it back to P&Z if they decide to do so. Mr. Mesirow noted Council has proven they review
P&Z’s comments regarding an application. Ms. Tygre asked for the minutes to reflect the other board
members are in agreement in that the City can and should be more of a player in this situation.
Ms. Tygre then moved to approve Resolution 7 as amended and was seconded by Mr. Mesirow.
Mr. Goode requested a roll call. Roll Call: Ms. McNicholas Kury, yes; Mr. McKnight, yes; Mr. McNellis,
yes; Mr. Mesirow, yes; Ms. Tygre, yes; and Mr. Goode, yes; for a total six Yes votes and zero No votes (6-
0). The motion passed.
Mr. Goode then closed the hearing.
Mr. Goode thanked Ms. Quinn for all her efforts working with P&Z. Mr. Mesirow noted it was her last
meeting.
ADJOURN
Mr. Goode then adjourned the meeting.
Cindy Klob
City Clerk’s Office, Records Manager