HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.apz.20040120ASPEN PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION MINUTES JANUARY 20~ 2004
COMMISSIONER COMMENTS ............................................................................................... 2
MINUTES ................................................................. ~ ..... ....... ~ ............... - ........................... ~, ............ 2
DECLARATION OF CONFLICTS OF INTERESTS.,~.~..,,..,...,. ..... ,.~,-....~---~,-~.~.,~.~.-..~..,,.?.....--,,.~.~ 2
LODGE AT ASPEN MOUNTAIN CONCEPTUALPUD .... ;,.,.. ..................... · .......................... 3
ASPEN PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION MINUTES JANUARY 20, 200a
Jasmine TYgre opened the regular meeting of the Aspen Planning & Zoning in
Council Chambers. Commissioners present were Steve Skadron, John Rowland,.
Dylan Johns, Ruth Kruger, Roger Haneman, Eric Cohen, and Jasmine Tygre. Eric
Cohen was excused. Ruth Kruger. Staff in attendance were David Hoefer,
Assistant City Attorney; Joyce Allgaier, Scott Woodford, James Lindt, John
Niewoehner, Community DevelOpment; Jackie Lothian Deputy City Clerk.
COMMISSIONER COMMENTS
Jasmine Tygre stated that the Growth Management Scoring public hearing was
scheduled at 5:00 p.m. with County P&Z. Tygre apOlogized how this was
scheduled. Joyce stated a number of emails were received from the public
regarding the Lodge.
John Rowland stated that he no longer worked for Poss and Associates.
The commissioners and staff wanted to have a'get-together for Eric C°hen's
service to the City Planning and Zoning Commission; the date, time and place
would be determined.
Tygre stated that the meeting held at Rio Grande. Place was very unfortunate
because the lights were not working, the heat made so much noise that they could
not hear. Tygre requested the commission not schedule any other meetings there.
Joyce Allgaier said to follow up on Eric's request about the Little Nell parking; it'
was on the Little Nell's private property. There was no special use permit to use
public parking and from the sidewalk to the street was public property.
Allgaier noted the special meetings on February 4th at noon for the Obermeyer
application; CoUncil will discuss the retail study on February 3rd; February 17th
Council will address some infill topics.
MINUTES
MOTION: Roger Haneman moved to approve the minutes from January 06, 2004
with changes as noted on pages 3 to remove the last phrase from Mr. Allen's
comments and page and 6 to amend spelling; seconded by Dylan Johns.
APPROVED 4-0.
DECLARATION OF CONFLICTS OF INTERESTS
John Rowland, Ruth Kruger and Jack Johnson were conflicted on the Lodge at
Aspen Mountain.
2
ASPEN PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION MINUTES JANUARY 20~ 2004
CONTINUED PUBLIC HEARING (12/16/03 & 01/06/04):
LODGE AT ASPEN MOUNTAIN CONCEPTUAL PUD
Jasmine Tygre opened the continued public hearing for the Lodge at Aspen
Mountain conceptual PUD. Joyce Allgaier stated that at the last meeting staff
requested that the public not send emails or letters directly to the commissioners
because it could be considered ex parte communication without the benefit of this
public hearing. Allgaier entered the following into the record emails or letters
from Christina Alvarez, Jerry M. Greiner, Reilly O'Conner, Nina Zale, Stanley
Cristol, John O'Conner, Bob Warstar, Sue Imrem, Don Steiner, Scott Stewart, Min
Chu, Ellen McLean, Lynn Reed and Richard Spaulding (all opposing the project).
Allgaier said that tonight traffic would be addressed. Allgaier introduced John
Niewoehner, the community development engineer who reviewed the traffic
impact study.
Sunny Vann said that TDA traffic consultants was represented by Dr. Bill Eager
who preformed traffic studies for the Little Nell, Ritz-Carlton, Bavarian Inn and
has experience working with the city engineering department.
Bill Eager described the process of the traffic study including the input by the City
of Aspen, which included traffic studies at the intersections of Garmish and Aspen
and Garmish/Durant on June 30th and July 1st. Summer totaled more cars than
winter and those summer traffic counts had gone down from the study 5 years
prior. Eager explained the level of service at those intersections with peaks and
level of service at "A", which was as good as it can get. The background
conditions did not identify any other projects to be incorporated in the study so the
background conditions were the same as existing conditions. Vann said the
existing street was adequate to handle the traffic generated from this project and
any re-development of other lodges in the area; there will be additional traffic
generated with no adverse unacceptable carrying capacity of South Aspen or the
intersections that are currently serving the area.
John Niewoehner reiterated that the traffic study showed the capacity of these
intersections were not being over whelmed by this development and everybody
agrees that traff~c will increase proportionally with twice as many units but that
proportional increase would not overwhelm the capacity of the street.
Roger Haneman asked the dates in 1998 when the traffic measurement was done
and if the days were weekdays or weekends. Eager replied that they were summer
counts and would get an answer. Haneman asked if the studies take' into account
the appearance .of reduced carrying capacity in the wintertime' because of ice and
snow.. Eager responded that typically they do recOgnize that snow conditions
ASPEN PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION MINUTES JANUARY 20, 2004
roughly take 20 % out of the capacity and they would still be at very high level of
service because of the excess capacity.
Jasmine Tygre said the ITE report used a resort hotel basis as part of the trip
generation, which would include service, delivery, employees and guests. Eager
answered that it was about the same figure that was used several years ago for the
Little Nell. Tygre asked if any follow-up had been done to see how close the
actual Little Nell figures are to what the projected figures are. Vann said that the
trip generation for a hotel in the ITE does not take into account any of the traffic or
trip mitigation techniques that are utilized in this community like van service,
which is a substantial component of how people get around in this community; the
hotel generation rateS that are used in this analysis are based on a person in a car in
a parking garage for the hotel. Eager said that Aspen stands out from other resorts
because it is so much more aggressive in controlling the amount of automobile
traffic and it is double anyplace else.
Joyce Allgaier asked if the ITE has updated its information addressing the factional
ownership issues; the fractiOnal ownership industry notes the fractional ownership
project generate less traffic because people fly in and out. Allgaier said the
fractional ownerships in Aspen have been structured more like hotels and lodges.
Eager answered that he did not recall anything in the ITE about fractional
ownership but there was a new addition of the ITE. Vann stated that autos could
not be left on site unless the fractional owner was on site.
Public Comments:
1. Milton Zale, public, president of Lift One Condominium Association, said
that he lives on that comer of Durant and to say there is less traffic now than 6
years ago was not the case; he said that they have never stood on that comer for
any length of time or they would know the traffic. Zale said he wonders if the
report was compiled in the same manner.
2. Doug Allen, public, stated that he didn't believe that traffic has gone down
at that intersection or anywhere in town'in spite of what Mr. Eager said about
Aspen's policy of no more traffic, there is more traffic every year and when the 4
lane road gets finished there will even be more traffic. Allen said with all of the
new projects being built there will be an incredible amount of new traffic. Allen
suggested bringing some of this traffic on the west end of this project into that
parking garage on Garmish. Allen said the new lift would exacerbate they whole
thing.
3. Peggy Mizen, public, Shadow Mountain owner, stated that they haVe been in
town for 39 years and have watched South Aspen Street change from a dirt road
4
ASPEN PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION MINUTES JANUARY 20~ 2004
and in the winter when you couldn't get through. Mizen stated that they had
trouble getting up to their unit when there are no cinders on the hill and spoke of
the dangers of the street along with people turning in and out of Juan Street and
sharing the street with another hotel.
4. Alex Beil, public, Shadow Mountain owner, stated that he lived at the top of
South Aspen Street and has problems driving up when it's slippery and also
because of the pedestrians walking up and down the street.
5. Nina Zale, public, Lift One Condos, asked the commission to read all the
letters of opposition. Ms. Zale said the staff memo was for the applicant's purpose
and did not believe the traffic 'study addressed traffic during Wintersk61, New
Year's and during fireworks.
6. Matt Wilson, public, asked the number of vehicles counted on June 30th.
Eager replied they counted for 2 hoUrs but didn't have those exact figures with
him.
7. Scott Stewart, public, Shadow Mountain resident, asked if they have
addressed the traffic issues with the 100 or so employees working at the lodge.
8. Carl Levy, Southpoint Condominium AsSociation president, said that there
were no reported accidents in the report at the comer of Durant and Aspen. Levy
stated that he lived on that comer and every winter there are 3 or 4 vehicles
including RFTA buses that slide through the intersection and have a big problem.
Levy questioned how 18-wheelers would get up that hill to this huge hotel that is 3
times the size of the Little Nell. Levy said there was a conflict of interest because
the applicant hired the traffic consultant; he felt it would have been better if the
city had hired that consultant. Allgaier responded that the City's in house staff
reviews and analyses the traffic report to make sure the study had no fatal flaws.
9. Yasmine DePagter, public, stated her biggest concern was traffic on South
Aspen Street and asked if there were any plans for a winter study and widening
South Aspen Street. Vann replied that there were no plans on widening the street
and the summer generates the highest level of traffic. Vann said that Ms.
DePagter's questions were operational characteristics on the street and the winter
conditions reduce the capacity of the road; the level of traffic generated bv that
hotel is still below that capacity.
10. Michael Mizen, public, Shadow Mountain owner, said it was an operational
issue dealing with a 1 O-wheeler track or garbage track and he wasn't sure where
'the service entrance was for this project.
5
ASPEN PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION MINUTES JANUARY 20, 200a
11. Milton Zale, public, asked the public audience who was in favor of this
project in relation to traffic, as it now exists. No one raised his or her hands.
John Niewoehner said South Aspen Street was at 6-7% slope; the city was working
on better street maintenance so that cars don't slide. Niewoehner said they were
trying to make that intersection safer.
Vann said the porte cochere access or entrance is about where the Skiers Chalet is
located; this is the primary drop-off for the hotel. The facility is designed to have
people move within the building and onto the slope. The cars were valet parked
from that location. The fractional ownership people were deposited at the base of
lA, just above the Lift One Condominiums with a separate entrance and parking
garage. Vann said the large trucks would not be going up to this project.
Haneman asked for the counts over the Castle Creek Bridge for comparison of the
counts for this project from last year on June BOth and July 1st.
Skadron inquired from the study (if it was correct) that if this prOject or any other
project built on this site that the roads could handle the capacity. Niewoehner
replied the study stated and the streets have the capacity to take more cars.
Haneman said that he was comfortable with the number of parking spaces provided
but had concerns about the operational characteristics on South Aspen Street and
what additional cars will do to it.
Tygre said Roger addressed a good point, which the applicant.also addressed
between the operational characteristics and asked for additional information like
how the Top of Mill increased traffic affects the neighborhood. Tygre said the
improvement to Lift lA is attractive to her but this would attract more traffic by
people finding Lift lA more appealing; she wasn't sure who should address that
traffic but it should be part of the overall traffic mitigation plan. Vann responded
that there was no public parking at Lift lA; besides replacing the lift, new
restrooms, ticket areas and patrol shack the SkiCo needs to consider the re-design
for the Lift 1A base. Allgaier said that they could encourage the SkiCo to master
plan the whole area as it relates to this project. Tygre said that she did not feel like
she had enough information because there is something around the corner that is
not seen at this point. Allgaier said that a master planning process was initiated
with the property owners in that area and decided not to do it as one big group.
Haneman reiterated the additional information needed for future meetings (1) dates
and days of the week for the traffic studies in 2003 and 1998 and corresponding
counts on the Castle Creek Bridge; (2) level of service from the Streets
ASPEN PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION MINUTES JANUARY 20, 2004
Department; (3) traffic trip generation from the Little Nell follow-up (4)
consideration of terrain at the Top of Mill; (5) disincentives for increasing vehicles
trips and traffic. (6) Haneman said the code asks for focus on the quantitative level
of service and he said that he was equally concerned with the qualitative level of
service.
Public Comments:
1. Peggi Mizen, public, Shadow Mountain, stated concern for density,
massiveness and height of the project.
2. Doug Allen, pUblic, stated that the concerns were excessive building mass,
volume and square footage at 334,000 square feet of building. The setbacks were
grossly inadequate for all of the neighbors, inadequate parking, an independent
.traffic study should be done, increased traffic and congestion, and impacts of the
new lift. Allen said that there should be a master plan for this street.
3. Alex Beil, public, Shadow Mountain, said the noise from traffic was of
concern on South Aspen Street. Beil said that there will be peaks of traffic when
the hotel has events and those conditions haven't been discussed.
4. Richard Spaulding, public, said the applicant and staff should consider
studying putting heat elements on South Aspen Street.
5. Scott Stewart, public, Shadow Mountain, stated concern for the traffic and
noted the amount of ambulances at the base of Lift lA and didn't know if that was
the point where people were brought off the mountain but there were many
emergency vehicles going up South Aspen Street.
MOTION: Roger Haneman moved to continue the public hearing for the Lodge
at Aspen Mountain Conceptual PUD to Februa~ 03, 2004; seconded by Dylan
Johns seconded. APPROVED 4-0.
Adjourned at 7:00 pm.
~~'ian,~ep~uty City Clerk
7