HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.hpc.19960612 ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION JUNE 12, 1996
Meeting was called to order by Chairman Jake Vickery with Roger Moyer,
Martha Madsen, Melanie Roschko, Susan Dodington, Sven Alstrom,
Suzannah Reid, Mark Onorofski and Donnelley Erdman present.
MOTION: Jake moved to add the Howling Wolf to the agenda; second by
Mark. All in favor, motion carried.
RED HEAD TOUR BOOTH
Amy stated that this company owned by Susan Thomas offers tours around
town and they are proposing to put up a booth on the Popcorn Wagon site
and she is proposing a desk with some sort of an awning. The signage needs
to meet the sign code and Staff will review that. Staff recommended approval
with the condition that signs permits are obtained and that the desk will be in
use between June 1 st and Oct. 1 st of each year which is consistent with what
the Planning & Zoning Commission approved.
Susan Thomas, sole proprietor of Aspen Red Head Tours stated that she
started the business a year ago in July. She also has had a public relations
and marketing business which is primarily nationally based for 17 years and
this is her way to get into the hospitality business in Aspen. The tours include
the history of Aspen and the west end Victorians. She had restored 8
Victorian homes in her past as the general contractor in Pensacolla, Fla.
Susan T. stated that the booth would be custom made out of oak and hickory
and she desires a canopy but the design cannot be done until she sees where
the sun hits.
Jake stated that the location would be off the patio into the mall.
Susan asked if the booth would have to be attached to the bricks?
Susan T. stated no as it would take five people to move it.
MOTION: Roger moved to approve the minor development application for
Redhead tours at the Popcorn Wagon to be in use June 1 to October 15th of
each year with the following conditions:
1) Permits for signage are obtained.
ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION JUNE 12~ 1996
2) Review of awning will be handled with monitor and stafJ~ second by
Martha. All in favor, motion carried.
712 W. FRANCIS - PARTIAL DEMOLITION
Amy stated that the applicant would like another addition to the house as the
house is under construction presently. They want to do a garage with an
ADU above it I the back. In order to do that they need to demolish a shed.
Lawrence Orbe, owner stated that they came before the HPC last fall to get
the shed removed for safety reasons and the HPC stated that a justification for
the removal needed to occur and that in the meantime the shed should be
stabilized. He stated that the shed was stabled before the heavy snows. The
shed is in the way of the proposed garage addition. The shed is not an
historic structure and is not on the inventory. It is a non conforming structure
and encroaches on the property next door.
Amy stated that the comment in the minutes referred to the other shed that
was on the property along the side of the house that was not historic. This
shed is not a Victorian building and the age has not been determined. The
shed on the Sanborn map shows a shed but in a different orientation. Inside
there are a lot of wire nails which suggest that it is not 19th century.
Lawrence Orbe stated from his research the building is from the 1950's. The
building was shored up on the inside and stabilized.
Jake stated that the stabilization was to make the building safe and ensure that
there is no further deterioration of the structure. He also stated that the HPC
should address whether or not the structure is historical and the enforcement
aspect.
Roger asked Staff if HPC requested that the siding on the house be kept?
Amy stated that on the condition of approval drawings were submitted for
staff and monitor approval indicating how the building materials will be
preserved. She also stated that there is a notation on the building permit that
says salvage existing siding. Amy stated that she felt is was a violation of the
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agreement and of the permit. The applicant stated that there were numerous
problems with retaining the siding.
Jake asked if the owner contacted Staff.
Amy stated that she went to the site and met with the project manager and
discussed the problem and when they were doing the interior demo the siding
was falling off the studs. She explained different ways to remove the
clapboard etc. and then the next thing occurred, they were all gone and taken
to the dump.
Roger asked if the applicant could explain about the siding and address the
design of the garage and some kind of ~human scale" on the alley.
Dennis Cyrus, architect stated that his recollection is that applicants are
encouraged to put the massing to the back of the lot to preserve the human
scale of the street elevation.
Lawrence Orbe addressed the siding and stated that he has tried to preserve
everything on the house, keeping the studs, floor joists and preserving the
interior structure. He also stated that he wanted to pull the siding out and lay
it on the ground and save what he could and put it back. He had a man lined
up for seven months and when they jacked the house up to straighten it the
siding fell off. Nothing went to the dump until after HPC was told about it.
Kurt Lantz, superintendent for Alpine Construction stated that when they
attempted to remove the siding the nails were rusted and would not extract
from the studding which caused the siding to be pulled over the head of the
nail which caused it to split. When you didn't have that problem the nails
were rusted off which is what caused the siding to splinter or fall off when the
house was wrapped. It is 1/4 inch thick and brittle and rotten. The house
was six inches out of rack in one direction and the back was three inches in
the other direction. The outside walls from front to back were bowed out
three inches and out of rack as well from front to back. When we racked the
house portions of it exploded. Other parts splintered all the way down the
nail lines. He also stated that he contacted Staff and photographed before and
after.
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Mark stated that on the site visit on the street side the siding was intact and
still remains from the first floor line up. Mark asked why that siding was not
reinforced behind the siding?
Kirt stated that after racking it was reinforced from the interior.
Martha asked if the ADU would be attached.
Dennis stated that it was attached by the stairway.
Susan stated the windows on the old and new are at the same level but the
roof on the new addition is much higher.
Dennis stated that it is standard 6'8" head height. The addition is built with 8
foot walls and is slightly higher than the dormers that were added to the
existing house. The ADU is functionally a two story building where the
existing is a story and a half.
Amy stated that there is no significant historical material being demolished.
New construction is abutting new construction. The only standard of
importance is the standard that states new construction is compatible in mass
and scale with the old building. That is what HPC should focus on.
PUBLIC COMMENTS
Ann Miller, 715 W. Smuggler stated her house is directly in back of the shed
and the shed has sunk over the years and is dangerous and an eye sore. She
stated that the shed should come down and in the winter the snow builds up in
front of it and makes the width of the alley less.
Doug McPhearson who lives directly east of the house 700 W. Francis stated
that the shed creates a problem with plowing. He believes it encroaches to
the property to the west and would like to see the shed come down. He also
stated that he has reviewed the Lawrence' s plans and they are not out of scale
with the existing neighborhood. The advantage of the garage in the back is
that they have had problems with parking.
Kathleen Albert stated that she is amazed that the shed stood as long as it has
and she heard it was used as an outhouse and believes it is hazardous.
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Joe and Dee Belina stated that they are in favor of the shed being removed.
COMMITTEE COMMENTS
Susan stated she is in favor of sheds in town and she likes to walk down the
alley and the alley scapes. The sheds are part of the character of the
historicness of the town.
Roger stated that the shed should be demolished.
Roger stated that before we asked for stabilization that all buildings should be
evaluated initially. If stabilization occurs it should be done in a proper
manner and done in some sort of enforcement and that if they don't do it
some recourse should be issued.
Roger stated that this particular shed is not historic and it is board and batten.
His only concern was that the boards were taken to the dump.
Jake stated that the HPC is always looking for communication from the
applicants.
Martha stated that members of the board have gone through the process and it
would be appropriate for the applicant to contact those members for
guidance.
Sven stated that the shed is not a big issue but he would like to see a more
vernacular context to the design of the garage. He feels the plate heights to
reduce the scale should be addressed and table the design and approve the
demolition.
Roger echoed Sven's statement to table the garage. Roger also suggested
that maybe a balcony could be incorporated with a sliding glass door so the
occupant of the structure would get the feeling of the outside and it would
enhance the starkness.
Donnelley stated that he would vote for demolition of the shed and table the
garage issue. The garage needs restudied as it creates a large mass of shade
and will effect the site lines across the alley.
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Melanie asked if this is an ADU why does it have to be attached to the
house?
Jake stated that the ADU issue will be addressed at P&Z.
MOTION: Donnelley moved that the demolition of the shed at 712 W.
Francis be approved and the approval of the garage and dwelling above the
garage be tabled until a date certain, dune 26, 1996; second by Roger.
Motion carries 6-1. Susan opposed.
303 E. MAIN - VESTED RIGHTS
Donnelley moved to table 303 E. Main until duly lOth; second by Suzannah.
All in favor, motion carried.
706 W. MAIN - CONCEPTUAL
Amy stated that the applicant did not have the proof of publication.
David Hoefer, Assistant City Attorney suggested that the Board proceed o the
condition that proof of publication be provided within a week and if not the
meeting is technically void.
John Muir, designer for the project.
Chairman dake l?ickery opened the public hearing.
Amy stated that the building is in the office zone district and they got
approval for that. What is before us now is to retain the building as a
residence. The historic cabin has a large one story addition behind it and
most of that is being retained. There are a few setback variances that are
being requested and one is a rear yard setback variance of five feet and ten is
required. In addition on the west they are requesting a variance of three foot
eight for a light well on the ADU. A window on the south facade violates
Ord #30 no window zone. There is a concern that the dormers create a large
dormer behind the historic house and possibly reconsider the way the shed
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dormers are designed. On the street elevation there are a large variety of
window types and more consistency should occur with those windows.
Differentiation of materials needs addressed.
John Muir stated that they created an addition that has minimal impact on the
miners cabin which pushed the addition to the alley. They have reduced the
vertical scale from the alley side by creating the impression of a one story
structure with dormers. They are requested a variance on the alley and a
larger window for the ADU. They restudied the roof lines of the shed
dormers which were on the street elevation. Some of the earlier design
elements considered the creation of a gable element that would run the width
of the sitting area on the second floor and they could re-visit that option. It
would lower the fascia and shorter it as well.
John also commented on the variety of windows on the south elevation and
how they correspond to the street. The windows are at different distances
and they will look at the proportions to see if there is a way to address the
issue. With regard to differentiation of materials old and new portions they
will provide a color board concurrent with final approval. John stated that
with the volume standard they cannot have a window between 9 & 12 or 9 &
15 fl. depending on the window type, that distance from the floor line. The
intent of that ordinance is discourage the use of too tall or two story window
elements. The window that does not comply is in an isolated plane and set
far back from the street. They are requesting that the HPC waive the volume
requirement on that particular elevation.
Roger stated that the shutters on the front of the house are probably not
original and there are 1960 ski elements on the original house and will those
elements be brought back to the original.
Amy stated that the representation in the application was that they intended in
doing no work to the historic house.
Melanie asked why a five foot variance was needed on the back/alley.
John stated that the intent was to not impact the one story existing structure.
Chairman dake Fickery closed the public hearing.
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COMMITTEE MEMBER COMMENTS
Melanie stated that she appreciated that the applicant did not want to impact
the existing structure by adding anything on top of it but she feels the very
large structure added to the back is out of scale. She stated that it looks like
two totally independent structures stuck together. The mass and scale does
not work. She stated that a site plan should be presented and possibly a
model to understand what is going on.
Susan stated that she agreed with Melanie and would like to see a model as
well. It is out of scale with the historic house (overwhelming).
Donnelley stated that there is an issue here that is more complex. The owners
have a programmatic requirement and right to add a certain number of square
feet above grade. His main objection is that the cabin is joined so closely to
the new work and the new work grows out of it. There is no differentiation in
materials and detailing. On the exterior this is the time to create an
expression to differentiate it from the historic resource. All the siding and
roofing is the same. The roof forms are also the same as existing. He stated
that he is sympathetic with the massing to the rear but not sympathetic to the
solution.
Suzannah stated that she agreed with Donnelley and the Board has pushed
themselves in a comer by allowing everything to the back as in previously
approved projects and that is something they need to grapple with. The board
needs to be consistent. She also stated when dealing with Ord. #30 issues the
board should look at the materials that are required for an Ord. #30 review,
adjacent buildings, site plan and street elevation.
Donnelley stated that if a model would be provided he feels the massing
wouldn't seem so significant.
Sven stated that a streetscape plan is necessary and he feels the design has
morphed a cabin into a cape cod and the transition needs restudied.
Stylistically nothing is objectionable. He stated he has a problem with the
siding.
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Roger stated that he has no problem with granting the variances and would
encourage a model, streetscape and site plan. Possibly a gable would be a
better solution than the dormer.
Amy stated for clarification the cabin and first part of the addition are existing
and the addition is behind that.
Sven stated that the west wall of the addition needs to be looked at. The
issue is differentiation between the historic resource.
Jake stated that there are design tools to accomplish programmatic goals and
do it in a way that is more sympathetic to the historic structure by maintaining
a small scale in the formalistic massing elements.
John Muir stated that he is hearing a number of things and some conflict.
Objection to mass and scale but yet it was pointed out that the property has a
right to a certain amount of square feet. He also stated that he is willing to
put together a mass model if that will help the committee but he needs more
focus on the concerns.
Amy stated that the office building was approved and has vested rights.
Suzannah stated that the Board likes the idea of differentiation between old
and new.
Donnelley stated that breaking up of the surfaces can be done by changing
materials, changing shadow lines and scale of the elements used to create the
surface. Ord. #30 deals with that long west wall.
John Muir asked if the committee wanted him to look at what was previously
approved regarding mass and bulk.
Melanie, Roger, Sven all stated ignore it because it was a commercial project.
Jake stated that the applicant needs to come in and state what they have
proposed is of a lesser impact than what was previously approved.
Jake stated that the applicant has requested impute from the HPC on mass
and scale, differentiation, and reference from what was previously approved.
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Jake stated that in terms of what was previously approved is there and it
would be helpful if what is being proposed is less of an impact. The HPC
feels this program presented today should be finessed and refine the
compatibility with the historic resource. On the previous drawings the
hyphen element punctuates between the old and new. Also the roof form
from the street is brought down dramatically to be in sympathy with the low
one story miners cottage. From the front there is a substantial off-set that is
back in so there were techniques used in the massing. Staff can share with
you some successful projects to view. Jake also stated that a metal roof
could be used on the addition and a shingle on the existing. Changing
materials in an intelligent way will differentiate old from new.
MOTION: Roger moved to table 706 W. Main and continue the public
hearing until June 26, 1996; second by Donnelley. All in favor, motion
carried. Suzannah abstained from voting.
Jake stated that the application was not complete as there was no Ord. #30
documentation and a streetscape elevation needs to be provided. He also
stated that the supplemental data sheet was missing.
935 E. HYMAN - CONCEPTUAL
Amy stated that at the last meeting HPC indicated that the buildings should be
obviously different or combined into one building. They have remained
detached buildings but shifted north south so that there is a little more a view
between them. Major areas of concern are the material palate, placement of
materials i.e. stucco placement and there are still windows in the no window
zone.
Klm Raymond stated that they are going to continue with the two buildings
and the shape of the roof has been changed. The buildings have been
staggered. A hip shape faces the street and stone has been incorporated.
Klm also stated that timbers have been incorporated. Variances have been
requested.
Sven stated that a roof plan is missing.
Chairman dake l?ickery opened the continued public hearing.
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Stephen Kanipe, neighbor stated that he liked the direction the new plans
were going rather than what he saw before. The concerns were addressed.
He stated he liked the separation between the two buildings.
David Gutherie stated that he was the construction manager.
Melanie stated that houses five feet from the lot line are close enough and
when you build two story house ten feet apart they are still close due to the
height. She still has problems with the two foot and three foot variances.
Martha stated conceptually it is pleasing and they used imagination to allow
the rock to be landmarked.
Roger asked if one of the buildings could be brought forward.
Klm Raymond, architect stated that they are requesting variances already.
Ron Kanan, contractor for the project stated that if they eliminated the deck
on the back of the house they could push the house back further but it would
be getting into the alley.
Kim stated that if that occurred they would be beyond the setback.
Susan stated that the applicant did a good job of incorporating the ideas from
the last meeting. She still feels the site is crowded and what is built on the
next lot will make it even more crowded.
Ron Kanan stated that one thing that would help the situation is planting more
trees but then it would interfere with the view of the rock.
Kim stated that a lot of the block has numerous plantings already.
Sven stated that it has been previously determined to get setbacks or
variances we need to find that the proposed development is more compatible
with the neighborhood than would otherwise be. He stated that even with the
modifications he does not find the project pleasing and it does not have the
elements that when we review projects, have to be found compatible,
elements of the neighborhood design review. Some concerns of ordinance
#30 are not presented either. He stated that the proposal missed the
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opportunity to embrace the rock and make some kind of cultural expression
or link. He also stated that he sees this as a building design and not
architecture. He is opposed to the 500 sqft. bonus. He stated that he doesn't
oppose the rear or sideyard setback variances and he doesn't oppose the
distance between the buildings. He recommended tabling and stated a plan of
the roof decks is missing and he is concerned about a lot of the materials
taking on a vertical emphasis. He is also concerned about the fire access
between the two buildings and possibly the lightwells will not be allowed.
He said he is looking for an architectural expression toward HPC guidelines
of both vernacular and historic links and some kind of cultural expression that
links the rock.
Donnelley stated that he was not present at the first meeting and can only
base his comments on what he sees on the present drawings. He said that the
designs are not stylistically cohesive. He cannot find stylistic references or
anything in a vocabulary that is appropriate of common elements of Aspen.
For that reason he does not recommend the FAR bonus. It is a difficult
project but stylistically it has not been resolved yet. A lot of the massing has
been resolved.
Suzannah stated that she would have to agree with the comments on the
setbacks and they are acceptable with terms of the new layout and she agrees
with the recommendation on the bonus. Her only concern is the stone facing,
it competes with the rock rather than compliments it, regardless of what color
it would be.
Roger stated that he agreed with all the comments from the other members.
He also stated that a roof plan is necessary and we need a strong clarification
of materials. A good landscape plan is also necessary. He said he had no
problem with the setbacks and would not grant the bonus. He also
encouraged keeping the back deck. He stated that a stone foundation would
be appropriate as a practical matter rather than the use of stucco.
Mark stated that he finds the project an improvement and in particular the
features of the roof on both units. You can't see the rock from the street due
to the foliage.
Jake stated that he concurred with what has been said and the FAR bonus is
reserved for very few projects of exceptional merit. He supports the notion of
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creating two separate houses but pragmatically that might not be feasible. He
would encourage increasing the side yard setbacks and using the side yards to
develop the lightwells and get the light into the basement from the perimeter
of the property as opposed to internally between the two houses but this is
just a suggestion. He also stated that he didn't consider this site particularly
sensitive in terms of the surroundings and neighborhood character and doesn't
consider this a pristine Victorian neighborhood so he is not, personally too
concerned about the details of the design. He would have a problem with the
variances but favors the front and rear variances due to the impacts of the
rock.
Ron Kanan stated that they looked at one building but the scale did not work.
He stated that they were offering the two buildings but the FAR that is eaten
up is in the courtyard lightwells.
Ron asked if the Board wanted a wood sided house.
Roger stated that he thought the rock and rock wall competed with each
other. There is a lot of verticality in the design.
Ron stated that he did not know what to do to honor the rock, it is a difficult
challenge. He stated that if wood siding is used it might look like a clapboard
Victorian and he is not sure if that is what HPC wants.
Sven stated that he had a few questions for the applicant to think about:
1) What style is it?
2) Is it compatible with HPC goals and defining the character of Aspen?
3) What is the rational or idea behind the design that has been presented and
how is it linked to the rock and HPC goals.
Sven stated that he sees two simple buildings that do not contribute to or
enhance the character of Aspen. He stated that these are basic design issues.
The building envelopes are OK and he doesn't have a problem except for the
FAR bonus but it all goes back to compatibility. He stated as a suggestion
that the rock is a piece of the mining era or industrial era and then went
through Aspen Paepcke era of great corporate wealth and now we are in a
kind of post-technocratic end of the millennium so there could be some kind
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of expression of that period of evolution from the time the rock was on the
site.
Donnelley stated to make it simple he did not see any passion or commitment
in the design. When people walk by all they see is a facade, we are talking
about it from a pedestrian standpoint. There are lots of window types with
different heights and different materials put together.
Kim stated that at the first meeting the two buildings were very similar and it
was suggested that we make them two different buildings.
Donnelley said from a pedestrian standpoint all people see is the facade and
that is what we are talking about.
Roger said maybe the 90's vernacular timbers/stucco isn't the way to
approach it. Maybe a mixture of historical materials and new materials would
be better.
MOTION: Roger moved to table 935 E. Hyman to a date certain June
26th; second by Susan. Motion carried 5 -2. Opposed were Martha and
Sven.
Martha asked what was missing for the approval.
Roger stated this is not enough information, we need a deck plan a
landscaping plan, and answers to ordinance #30.
Ron Kanan said that he thought the landscape plan was submitted at final.
Jake stated typically a landscape plan is a requirement that is put on at
conceptual to be provided at final unless it is integral to some aspect of the
conceptual design. Also the emphasis of materials is at final.
Ron Kanan stated that he might bring in materials at the next meeting.
Jake said Ron should focus on the massing, setback and FAR issues because
those are the conceptual level issues that need to be addressed. We feel that
materials are integral with the conceptual design and are very important to the
success of the conceptual design.
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414 N. FIRST -WORKSESSION
NO MINUTES - PAEPCKE HOUSE
Jake stated that the board should focus on what is historical on the house and
what are the flexible areas. Herbert Bayer did some of the design. There is
67,000 sqfl, left that over look the lake.
HOWLING WOLF
Sven stated that a change order was submitted to the Building Dept. and
during the site visit it was determined that we are submitting a light well to
the basement but because of exposing a perimeter wall area it does generate
additional FAR which would be over the limit of a minor development
application. We would like to add the square footage that the window well
generates as a minor development which is 120 sqfl. There is a dimensional
error on the existing building of 48 fl. so we really only have a net gain of 72
sqfl. There is a new concrete wall and basement under the historic house.
Roger asked if there will be a railing around the lightwell or could it be
grated.
Sven stated that a grate could be incorporated.
MOTION: Roger recommended approval with a grate or a solid cover the
lightwell; second by Martha. All in favor, motion carried.
MOTION: Donnelley moved to adjourn; second by Roger. All in favor,
motion carried.
Meeting adjourned at 8:15 p.m.
Kathleen J. Strickland, Chief Deputy Clerk
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RED HEAD TOUR BOOTH ......................................................................................... 1
712 W. FRANCIS - PARTIAL DEMOLITION .................................................................. 2
303 E. MAIN - VESTED RIGHTS .................................................................................. 6
706 W. MAIN - CONCEPTUAL .................................................................................... 6
935 E. HYMAN - CONCEPTUAL ................................................................................. 10
414 N. FIRST -WORKSESSION ................................................................................... 15
HOWLING WOLF ................................................................................................... 15
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