Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.hpc.201710111 ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION MINUTES OF OCTOBER 11, 2017 Vice-Chairperson Greenwood called the meeting to order at 4:38 p.m. Commissioners in attendance: Bob Blaich, Gretchen Greenwood, Roger Moyer, Willis Pember, Scott Kendrick. Absent were Jeffrey Halferty, Richard Lai and Nora Berko. Staff present: Andrea Bryan, Assistant City Attorney Nicole Henning, Deputy City Clerk Amy Simon, Historic Preservation Planner APPROVAL OF MINUTES: September 27, 2017 Mr. Blaich moved to approve, Mr. Moyer seconded. All in favor, motion carried. PUBLIC COMMENT: Chris Bendon Mr. Bendon said he is in attendance representing the applicant, Timberline Bank, from the meeting two weeks prior. He is requesting reconsideration of the resolution that was approved last time regarding consternation over the wording as this has been re-worked with staff since that meeting. Staff has provided a revised set of conditions for the board to vote on, but he does not want the whole project reconsidered, if possible. Ms. Simon said she did pass out copies of what was emailed yesterday with the revised language shown on the second page along with a copy of the original resolution. Mr. Moyer motioned to reconsider, Mr. Blaich seconded. All in favor, motion carried. Mr. Moyer moved to approve the new resolution as it is written, Mr. Blaich seconded. All in favor, motion carried. COMMISSIONER COMMENTS: Mr. Moyer mentioned that over the years, there have been pretty definite rules about historic buildings and windows, etc. Isn’t the architectural community aware of what we want? He asked if the architectural community needs to be educated about the rules because it’s a waste of time and we just don’t replace historic windows. Ms. Simon said that he should wait to hear the presentation tonight before making a judgement as we do our best to communicate the policies, but it’s not the same with every building and people are allowed to ask for any changes they want and it’s HPC’s job to find what is appropriate. DISCLOSURE OF CONFLICT: None. PROJECT MONITORING: None. STAFF COMMENTS: Ms. Simon introduced Sarah Yoon, the new Historic Preservation Planner. PUBLIC NOTICE: Ms. Bryan hadn’t seen the posting yet so she is looking it over. CALL UP REPORTS: None. 2 ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION MINUTES OF OCTOBER 11, 2017 Ms. Bryan brought up an issue from the applicant that she would like them to state for the record. Jamie Brewster addressed the board with a conflict of interest with Ms. Greenwood due to some personal things that have transpired between the two women so Ms. Brewster felt as though Ms. Greenwood should have recused herself. Ms. Greenwood said that the altercation was over a year ago and she feels that she can be a fair judge on this project. Ms. Bryan stated that she also notified the applicant that it is HPC’s rule that an applicant should provide written notice seven days prior to a hearing to discuss a conflict of interest, which was not done in this case. As long as the chairperson says that she will be impartial to this application, she feels they are fine moving forward. NEW BUSINESS: 128 E. MAIN ST. SARDY HOUSE Amy Simon Tonight’s application effects the Sardy House, which was built in 1891. This is locally landmarked and located in the historic district. It is one of only four remaining Victorian era brick mansions in Aspen and was built by JW Atkinson. In 1945, it was purchased by Tom and Alice Rachel Sardy who owned and operated a lumber yard and mortuary. It was sold in 1985 and turned into the Sardy House hotel and more recently, the building has changed hands a couple of times. There is a boarding house and lodging for the general public in the back and the main building is a single-family home. In the proposal before HPC tonight, is the idea of replacing glass in 30 historic windows. There are some stained-glass windows, some windows called “glue chip”. They will be replacing the glass in the front most part of the building to improve energy efficiency and they will also discuss re-configuration of a few windows and doors on the non-historic part of the structure. Staff is supportive of the changes to the non-historic structure and mostly supportive of replacing the other windows, but want to discuss the stained glass and repairing the windows with weather stripping instead of replacing. Ms. Greenwood said that in the application it says there was the replacement of non-historic glass and she asked if there is a record of when the glazing was redone and asked how they know that it is in fact, non-historic glass. Ms. Simon said she had that same question and spoke with Frank Peters who had done the conversion of the building to the Sardy House Hotel and he stated that he did not replace any glass. Rolled glass was available in the late 1800’s and is more consistent with what we have now, but she has that same question which is part of the resistance to replace it. There is no record of that with the Building Department so we do not know for sure. Mr. Pember asked Ms. Simon what the function of the bridge is today and Ms. Simon said when you cross the bridge, you will run into a pair of fire doors and that is the separation point to the boarding house so everything south of the bridge, is a single-family home. The building use has changed over time and we don’t know the future of the building so we should not make a decision based on it always being a single-family home as it could become something else someday. 3 ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION MINUTES OF OCTOBER 11, 2017 APPLICANT PRESENTATION: Jaime Brewster McLeod and Teraissa McGovern of Brewster McLeod Architects. Ms. McLeod has brought along her glass expert, Alyssa Taylor and her historic renovation wood worker, Chul Lee of RL Woodworks and Design. Ms. McLeod said they are very excited for this project and to be working on this historic gem of Aspen. The ownership recently changed and the clients are very excited to own it. The intent is to refurbish the exterior and interior as there are some energy concerns and sound mitigation concerns on Main St. These are 50 -100 year updates we are doing. Regarding the scope of request, we are not replacing any historic glass and will be taking pane staking elements to review each window and each piece of glass. Ms. Taylor has recommended that all of the glass is more of a 1960’s glass because of the putty that was added and has been altered at some point with the glazing. Regarding the glue chip, we want to make sure this is historic. There are two areas of the windows we believe are historic, but we want to make sure. There is one glue chip that is not historic at all that we would like to do a frosted window on. In regard to the historic leaded stained glass, we would like to preserve this and want to protect it and add an outer thermal layer. There are major concerns with the historic disrepair and are looking at the front entry porch due to the amount of water damage and deterioration that has taken place. Overall, there was not a lot of maintenance done to this building. There are significant plumbing issues and leaks in the historic part. We have fixed a few with the building dept., but really, this project is in complete disrepair and we are finding a lot of rotten wood sashes. A majority of the windows do not open and close and 98% of the windows are inoperable because they are warped in a vertical and horizontal direction and bowed. There is extensive water damage on the inside of the windows so we are finding a lot of rot within the walls. Ms. McLeod brought samples of historic vs new windows that they are looking at using. There is a lot of mold and rot in the windows themselves and we are not looking into taking out historic glass itself, but the frame is completely rotting out so we do need to replace that. We have looked at replacing with single pane new glass, but this doesn’t work because the wood already has a memory to it, so it’s going to bow again. We next looked at interior storm windows and there is a huge visual effect for the clients on the inside and there is a condensation issue, so it is no longer an option, but they are looking at exterior storm windows. Double paned thermal glass is now what they are looking at, which means there will be no change to the exterior of the window. If we mill out 3/8 of an inch from the inside, these can be fixed and will add some structural integrity so there is no future bowing. We looked at a half inch and a three-quarter inch with V shape weather stripping. None of the locks currently are working and it’s very drafty so the clients have taped up insulating fabric due to the bowing and sashes. Mr. Kendrick asked how they plan to get the bowing out of the windows and Mr. Lee said that they are cracked on all four joints with traditional joinery. To fix this, it will be a combination of putting in a piece of thermal paned glass, which is structural and will help retain to straighten out the frame. They will seal it off, and pressure fit it and clamp everything together straight. Mr. Kendrick asked how long will this last and Mr. Lee said that with proper sealing, it shouldn’t allow any further moisture to get in and should last well beyond our lifetime providing that the building is maintained. 4 ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION MINUTES OF OCTOBER 11, 2017 Mr. Moyer asked if all the interior windows are still oak and Ms. McLeod said no, there are two types: painted pine and oak. Mr. Lee said that over the years, the windows have bowed and broken from people trying to open them. He said it’s a shame because the woodworking is amazing and all made from the same piece of wood and is very high quality. Ms. McLeod also mentioned that Mr. Lee did the interior of the wood replacement at the Wheeler and that Ms. Taylor is currently working with St. Mary’s to restore and replace their glass on Main St. as well. Ms. Simon asked if the samples can be recessed more and Ms. McLeod said that yes, we would like to have Mr. Lee recess them more. Ms. McLeod said that all of the historic sashes are slightly different and is not the same window to window. You have to look at each one individually with each window being roughly 5000 dollars so this was not our first go to option, but it really became about keeping the intent of the interior and exterior the same. Ms. McGovern mentioned that the front of the Hotel Jerome is double paned. Ms. Taylor explained to the board what to look for when examining historic glass and said this is not the original glass that was installed in the late 1800’s. Ms. Simon asked if is there a clear spacer and Mr. Lee said no, it will be bronze, black or aluminum. Ms. McLeod said they are looking at bronze for the oak and aluminum for the white because it’s the least amount of contrast. Ms. Greenwood asked what color the windows are on the outside and Ms. McLeod said the frame is green and the sashes are black. Mr. Pember asked what a glue chip is. Ms. McLeod said the red in the photo on the screen is the glue chip. Ms. Taylor said you can glue chip any type of glass. The example they have is a red glue chip stained glass. You would take a sheet of glass with either clear or color and the same technique was used in 1890 as today. You take the sheet of glass and use a horse hide glue and mix with water and apply the pasty glue at the top of the glass and then put heat and fans on it and the glue will pull off the top layer of glass so you get the ferning pattern. The glue is literally chipping the glass as it pops off. The windows that are in question are a clear glue chip so those will still need to be determined. Ms. McLeod said that it is not on the street façade, just the back courtyard that the glue chip is showing. Mr. Pember asked if the 50’s and 60’s glass was replaced throughout the whole house or just intermittently and Ms. Taylor said she did not see any old glass in this home. There is a mix of newer glass as well and replaced over time as they have broken. Most of the glass could be a couple of decades old, which has a little bit of a wave, but those are the ones from the 50’s 60’s. She says she’s still uncomfortable with them replacing the glass and would like one more final walk around. If it’s historic or not, the window needs to be stabilized. 5 ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION MINUTES OF OCTOBER 11, 2017 Mr. Pember asked Ms. Simon if she has corroborated all of the information being presented and she said she is still uncomfortable regarding the age of the glass and admitted there is a lot of expertise here, but there are more windows in town that have their historic glass and may not have as many seeds, but she said the applicant is arguing that whether historic or not, the window needs to be stabilized. Mr. Blaich asked Ms. Simon if she has had a chance to check the windows herself and Ms. Simon said yes, she did a walkthrough, but it wasn’t a window by window study. Mr. Kendrick asked if staff’s biggest concern is regarding whether the windows are historic or not and Ms. Simon said yes, there is some concern with that, as well as, the amount of intrusion and with what it’s going to look like. Mr. Pember asked for a drawing of the proposed egress window and Ms. McLeod said there is not a blow-up detail available. Mr. Pember asked if they are keeping the same frame opening and Ms. McLeod said yes, but we can’t use the existing sash. Mr. Pember clarified that it will be a code minimum opening. Mr. Moyer asked Mr. Lee if he could make storm windows and he said he could do that and the openings do allow for it, but he is only doing what he has been asked to do. PUBLIC COMMENT: None. Ms. Greenwood said she he doesn’t feel that the staff recommendations are detailed enough in the resolution and they need to be clarified. If we continue to study this, it’s a big undertaking what they are doing here. She knows from experience what happens with single paned glass as it rains on the inside. Comfort isn’t an issue, but the constant ongoing maintenance with the condensation. She thinks it’s important to replace the glass for the longevity of the residence, but perhaps recessing the frame back in further would be better because screams, “I’m a new window”. In her opinion, that definitely needs more study. Mr. Moyer said there will still be interior condensation after replacing the glass, but Ms. Greenwood said it was eliminated completely on one of her projects. She is in favor of approving the method, but with more work in hiding the spacer bar. Mr. Moyer said a little more research might be helpful as far as the glass. It’s a tough one and he would prefer to accept staff recommendation, but it’s seems the glass may not be historic. He said he is ok with staff and monitor. Ms. Greenwood said she feels that the longevity of the house is more important than allowing the erosion and rot to take over. Mr. Blaich said his house is 121 years old and was modified before he bought it. We do have problems with the interior storm windows put in with metal frames and there is still a lot of maintenance and evaporation and all of the problems that come along with that. He said he is trying to look at this wonderful building we have in town and would like to see it put back in good condition and last for another 100 years. He is happy someone is going to live in it for a change and is thinking of the function and comfort and we should go as far as we can to ensure we have a long-term solution. It will solve the functional problem. 6 ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION MINUTES OF OCTOBER 11, 2017 Mr. Moyer asked Mr. Lee if there is a better way to do this and Mr. Lee likes the ¾ inch glass better, but he doesn’t know of another way to preserve the window, the frame, the integrity and craftmanship, etc. The spacer between the glass is Mr. Kendrick’s biggest concern. Overall, the replacement retains the visual aspect and doesn’t think storm windows are needed. If the problem with the spacer can be addressed, he’s in favor of that. Mr. Pember said he tends to agree with the resolution as it’s written and he supports that. Ms. Simon said #1 needs to be modified to include the insulated glass if that is what you all want. Mr. Kendrick said the memo is clear and the resolution is not. Discussion amongst Ms. Greenwood and Mr. Pember took place about the wording of the resolution and what is expected. Mr. Moyer asked if they are all in favor of replacing the glass and Mr. Pember said no, he feels that the 50’s and 60’s glass is historic. Mr. Pember said he is uncomfortable and thinks the board is taking a huge leap ahead and he supports exactly what staff is recommending, which is to not allow the insulated glass, but to do repair work. Ms. Greenwood disagrees with him and says the resolution is very vague. Ms. McLeod said they do have a plan in place with her experts on each window, analyzed each window and do have a window schedule for exterior and interior. We believe we can save all of the sashes and can be repaired and some will have more repair than others. We are asking for ½ inch for all of these windows for structural integrity. The experts on hand have reviewed every single window. Mr. Pember said the schedule should have been submitted with their presentation. Ms. Garrow said they could add conditions for #1 by adding to the end of that sentence, “Victorian era specific glass stipulations. If there is original glass, it must be restored in a different manner and if it is not Victorian era glass, then they can repair as presented.” Ms. Greenwood said this sounds reasonable. Mr. Pember said he disagrees thinks this does not need to be added. Ms. Greenwood and Mr. Moyer said if it is non-historic glass, there should be no issue. Mr. Blaich said he would go with half inch all the way through the house. Mr. Pember said he feels that consistency is best and agrees with using half inch glass everywhere. Ms. Greenwood suggested that they eliminate the suggested condition #3, which the others agreed with. The final HPC conditions decided upon by the board are as follows: #1. Approval to install half inch double paned glass in all windows that are identified in the historic structure detailed to conceal the spacer from the exterior and the face of glass should be in the same plane as it is now. #2. There will be further review by staff and monitor regarding any storm window or glue chip and stained-glass windows. #3. A cut-sheet provided for the egress window being installed in the bedroom on the west façade. 7 ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION MINUTES OF OCTOBER 11, 2017 Mr. Pember asked to add in, “repair frames and sashes rather than replace them, to the greatest extent possible”. Ms. Greenwood agreed to add that in. Mr. Moyer motioned to approved the above listed conditions as stated, Mr. Kendrick seconded. Roll call vote: Mr. Blaich, aye; Ms. Greenwood, aye; Mr. Moyer, aye; Mr. Pember, yes; Mr. Kendrick, aye. 5-0 all in favor, motion carried. Mr. Blaich will be the project monitor. Ms. Greenwood motioned to adjourn 6:57 p.m. ______________________________________ Nicole Henning, Deputy City Clerk