HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.hpc.19991117ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION MINUTES OF~
NOVEMBER 17~ 1999
Chair-person Suzannah Reid called the meeting to order at 5:00 p.m.
Member in attendance were Roger Moyer, Mary Hirsch, Jeffrey Halferty,
Susan Dodington, Lisa Markalunas and Christie Kienast. Heidi Friedland
was excused. Staff in attendance was Assistant City Attorney David Hoefer
and Historic Preservation Officer Amy Guthrie.
MOTION: Roger moved to approve the minutes of October 27, 1999;
second by Mary. All in favor, motion carried.
400 W. SMUGGLER
Sworn in were Steve Weaver and Ernie Delto.
Amy informed the board that a stop work order was issued on the project
because the dormers that were approved were not what was being
constructed.
Emie explained that they were provided as built drawings from the client but
the drawings actually showed the main floor level of the carriage house to be
two feet three inches wider than what it really is. He had three different
drawings and they all actually showed the same thing. He was asked not to
spend excessive amounts of time producing drawings so he used the drawings
as they were provided to him. The fact that the building is 6 feet wide not
18"3 lowers the existing roof by about 13 or 14 inches. In addition to that in
order to get a permit they had to present some kind of drawings to HPC and
to the Building Dept. In order to do that they had to make some assumptions
regarding rafter depth because they could not do demolition without permit to
determine what the real rafter depth is. He made the assumption that it was
2x8 and it is not, it is 2x4. That lowers the existing roof ridge another six
inches. They lost a foot seven in the actual height of the roof over what was
the original as built drawings indicated. In order to accomplish the head
height they had to flatten out the shed roof dormers on the 3 x 12 to a little
less than 1 x12.
In order to maintain the head height they had to forgo the 3 by 12 pitch. That
has a dramatic impact on what the building looks like.
ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION MINUTES OF~
NOVEMBER 17~ 1999
The proposed scheme shows the dormer walls being pulled back 12 inches on
either side which gives the same relationship as what was originally submitted
but it still doesn't gain them anything in head height.
Roger asked if it was the architects responsibility to verify existing conditions
for drawing plans and Suzannah clarified generally yes but it also depends on
the relationship to the client.
Jeffrey said even at a minimal you would want to check your spans on width
and height and verify it. That is a typical process for architects.
Emie said the owner was given the drawings by a previous owner that were
done by a previous architect.
Jeffrey asked for clarification if all the windows had to be rated for egress?
Only one needs rated for egress.
Emie relayed that the head height as is does not meet the building code and
they are aware of that. Even if it was at the lower pitch that was approved it
would not work. You have less than six feet head height.
Mary reminded the board that this proposal wasn't a possibility to begin with.
This is an historic structure on a comer and the design does not work.
Lisa said visually from the street it is not pleasing. The flatness of the roof
and lack of pitch on the dormer are not appropriate. The shed dormer on the
south elevation is extremely heavy.
Jeffrey relayed that measuring is essential. Roughly 450 feet should have
been measured to verify some dimensions. Design changes should not be
happening while you are framing. Code issues about clearances, egress
should have been addressed. The visual impact on the historic structure is
great, essentially you are taking the gabled structure and creating a square flat
box.
Susan's concern is that the addition is not compatible with the historic
structure and it diminishes the historic look of the structure. If it was not
workable in the beginning it should not have started.
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ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION MINUTES OF~
NOVEMBER 17~ 1999
Roger and Suzannah suggested that they go back and look at the original
historic house and start the design over. The revised plan presented is not
compatible.
Emie said he is not clear what a reasonable solution is and is not sure there is
one. He will have to discuss the situation with the owners, the Dodges.
Suggestions:
Jeffrey's suggestion was to eliminate one of the dormers to make the design
work.
MOTION: Mary made the motion that the application for 400 W. Smuggler
cannot go forward with the current or the revised plan; second by Susan.
YES FOTE: Roger, Mary, Suzannah, Susan, Jeffhey, Lisa. Passes 6-0.
Mary and Susan are monitors.
419 E. HYMAN AVE. PARAGON BLDG. - MINOR DEVELOPMENT
Sworn in were Holly Hamilton, Dennis Wedlick and Jack Wheeler.
Amy relayed that the application entails alternations to the sides and back of
the building. The upper floors are being converted to larger condominiums.
Staff' s concern is distinguishing old from new. On the west faCade where the
mural is located the mechanical chases will be removed and toward the back
of the building a pair of double hung windows are proposed. Staff is
proposing that the new windows be broken apart and that they have arches or
some detailing that is slighting different than the historic windows.
On the east faCade toward the front of the building there are small windows
with an arch over them and they appear to be the original openings. Currently
they have double hung windows which are not historic and the application is
to replace those with new casement windows. Staff suggested that casements
not be used. The existing type windows should be used. Paired double hung
windows are also being proposed on the facade and staff has the same
concern of changing the pattern.
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ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION MINUTES OF~
NOVEMBER 17~ 1999
On the alley side of the building the proposal is to add new double hung
windows and add an arch to each pair. Staff is proposing that the new
windows be spaced in between the existing windows. Staff has no problem
with the garage door but should be treated similar to the existing door.
Dennis stated that they are comfortable with taking the recommendations on
the best way to add windows and preserve the original building. Changing to
double hung windows where staff proposed is also acceptable.
Dennis suggested that the arch be flat but still have the brick pattern. The
only facade that they request flexibility on is the side with the corrugated
metal. They need some flexibility with the windows in regard to light issues.
Staff commended the architect for removing the extrusions to the back of the
building.
The board inquired about the mechanical equipment and Jack Wheeler
indicated that there will be as little impact to the outside as possible. Two
flues are currently going on the outside of the building in the east bay
between the neighboring building. Some equipment will be on the roof.
There is significant "cleansing" of the exterior of the building.
COMMENTS
East elevation metal should be kept. Drawings should indicate any
mechanical equipment on the wall. The window pattern should be replicated,
single window, double window. Identify any equipment that will be on the
roof. Keep the arch flat as opposed to curved. West elevation windows
should be separated. The restoration should be specifically identified such as
mortar and what bricks are being removed etc. The restoration plan needs
walked through with staff and monitor. South side windows should be
spaced as recommended by monitor. Retaining as many of the historic rough
openings is preferred. Differenciation in the arched detail of the header is
appropriate to distinguish new from old.
Lisa felt that the single windows on the south elevation have an historic look
and would be lost if they were doubled. The amount of additional glass from
4
ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION MINUTES OF~
NOVEMBER 17~ 1999
the double hung windows changes the historic nature of that significant
building in the commercial core. Restoration of the mural is commendable.
Christie stated the spacing of the windows on the east, west and south sides
should be left as is because it is the signature of that building.
Suzannah stated that she agreed with Lisa on the south side that it will be
very difficult to add double hung windows in between those existing double
hungs and have a significant amount of wall left.
Susan stated that she also agrees with Suzannah and Lisa regarding the south
wall.
Roger informed the applicant that the HPC needs to see how the parapet wall
will be preserved.
MOTION: Roger moved to continue 419 E. Hyman Ave. to December 15,
1999; second by Susan. All in favor, motion carried 7-0.
735 W. BLEEKER STREET
Randall Bone was sworn in.
Amy informed the board that a change order came in that altered the
approved plans and they had already been started. A stop work order was
issued.
Randall said the changes were not what was built. He took the permit set and
walked around in order to determine what was different from the permit set.
1. On the street elevation the window is shown with a mullion to give it a
double hung effect. The mullion came in but it was very thin and made
wrong. He requested a new one.
2. The knee braces in the set of plans that are subsequent all show this as a
post.
3. On the chimney it is set back eight inches on the inside of the eave and
this is a change in the plans. The chimney was set back as a structural
need. The fire box was built as planned but the chimney is set back.
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ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION MINUTES OF~
NOVEMBER 17~ 1999
4. On the north elevation, Bleeker Street the window was eliminated
because it looked into the bathroom window of the other house which is
only eight feet away. The siding which was drawn vertically was actually
put in horizontally.
5. On the alley side horizontal siding was installed and the plans indicate
vertical.
6. Where the side lights are both windows are double wide which expanded
the gable and it is not drawn the way it was built. The plan shows siding
as opposed to shingles.
The intention was to do a great project but the plans contradict what was
done and the owner desires to work with the board to accomplish what is
needed to make the project work.
Amy explained to the board that a number of the items indicated would not
necessarily require a change order from the Building Dept. but they do need
HPC approval.
Mary inquired about the green trim around the window which was installed
and is not what was approved. The plans indicated a cap and the trim
installed is not compatible.
Consensus:
Roger relayed his only concern was the type of bay window and the thickness
of the trim which ruins the entire facade. The bay window is the most visible
part of the house.
Susan also agreed that the bay window needs addressed.
Jeffrey relayed his concern was the overhang off the northern side of the new
house.
Lisa had no objection to most of the changes but would like the bay window
represented as a double hung window and agreed with Roger that the trim
needs addressed.
Christie also agreed with Lisa's comment on the bay window with double
hung window and trim.
Suzannah stated the changes have made the house simpler which is better in
the long run and her recommendation would be that the two double hung
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ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION MINUTES OF~
NOVEMBER 17~ 1999
windows on the alley side should have crown molding. With the window
getting shorter on the east side the vertical siding becomes more important
and that should go back on with a little cap detail. It would make that piece
look a little more grounded. She also suggested adding to the guidelines
that imitation of a double hung window has to be a true divided light, it
cannot be a snap on mullion. It is done because it is inexpensive.
MOTION: Roger moved to approve and accept the bztilding as is today with
the following conditions:
1. That the two double hung windows in the kitchen on the alley side need
crown molding.
2. ,4 return piece on the vertical siding near the bathroom nee& a trim
piece added to the top.
3. Something be done to address the ceil under the bay window.
4. The back doors have to be half lights and the side lights' should have
some kind of mzdlion.
5. The trim would apply to any of the larger double hung windows that do
not have it.
6. Crown molding to be added to the double hung windows on the alley.
Motion second by Christie. YES FOTE: Lisa, Christie, Jeffkey, Susan,
Mary, Roger, Sztzannah. Motion carried 7-0.
Roger relayed that the problem with the bay window is the mass. Moldling
should be applied. A recommendation was made to change the green trim
and Randall agreed.
MOTION: Roger moved to adjourn; second by Mary. ,411 in favor, motion
carried.
Meeting adjourned at 6:30 p.m.
Kathleen J. Strickland, Chief Deputy City Clerk
400 W. SMUGGLER .................................................................................................. 1
419 E. HYMAN AVE. PARAGON BLDG. - MINOR DEVELOPMENT ................................. 3
7
ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION MINUTES OF~
NOVEMBER 17~ 1999
735 W. BLEEKER STREET ......................................................................................... 5
ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION MINUTES OF,
NOVEMBER 17, 1999
Chair-person Suzannah Reid called the meeting to order at 5:00 p.m.
Member in attendance were Roger Moyer, Mary Mirsch, Jeffrey Halferty,
Susan Dodington, Lisa Markalunas and Christie Kienast. Heidi Friedland
was excused. Staff in attendance was Assistant City Attorney David Hoefer
and Historic Preservation Officer Amy Guthrie.
MOTION: Roger moved to approve the minutes of October 27, 1999;
second by Mary. All in favor, motion carried.
400 W. SMUGGLER
Sworn in were Steve Weaver and Ernie Delto.
Amy informed the board that a stop work order was issued on the project
because the dormers that were approved were not what was being
constructed.
Ernie explained that they were provided as built drawings from the client but
the drawings actually showed the main floor level of the carriage house to be
two feet three inches wider than what it really is. He had three different
drawings and they all actually showed the same thing. He was asked not to
spend excessive amounts of time producing as builts so he used the drawings
as they were provided to him. The fact that the building is 6 feet wide not
18”3 lowers the existing roof by about 13 or 14 inches. In addition to that in
order to get a permit they had to present some kind of drawings to HPC and
to the Building Dept. In order to do that they had to make some assumptions
regarding rafter depth because they could not do demolition without permit to
determine what the real rafter depth is. He made the assumption that it was
2x8 and it is not, it is 2x4. That lowers the existing roof ridge another six
inches. They lost a foot seven in the actual height of the roof over what was
the original as built drawings indicated. In order to accomplish the head
height they had to flatten out the shed roof dormers on the 3 x 12 to a little
less than 1 x12.
In order to maintain the head height they had to forgo the 3 by 12 pitch. That
has a dramatic impact on what the building looks like.
1
ASPEN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION MINUTES OF,
NOVEMBER 17, 1999
The proposed scheme shows the dormer walls being pulled back 12 inches on
either side which gives the same relationship as what was originally submitted
but it still doesn’t gain them anything in head height.
Roger asked if it was the architects responsibility to verify existing conditions
for drawing plans and Suzannah clarified generally yes but it also depends on
the relationship to the client.
Jeffrey said even at a minimal you would want to check your spans on width
and height and verify it. That is a typical process for architects.
Ernie said the owner was given the drawings by a previous owner that were
done by a previous architect.
Jeffrey asked for clarification if all the windows had to be rated for egress?
Only one needs rated for egress.
Ernie relayed that the head height as is does not meet the building code and
they are aware of that. Even if it was at the lower pitch that was approved it
would not work. You have less than six feet head height.
Mary reminded the board that this proposal wasn’t a possibility to begin with.
This is an historic structure on a corner and the design does not work.
Lisa said visually from the street it is not pleasing. The flatness of the roof
and lack of pitch on the dormer are not appropriate. The shed dormer on the
south elevation is extremely heavy.
Jeffrey relayed that measuring is essential. Design changes should not be
happening while you are framing.
2