HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.hpc.19941102HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE NOV. 2, 1994
306 S. MILL STREET - UTE MOUNTAINEER - MINOR DEVELOPMENT
316 E. HOPKINS - HOWLING WOLF - MINOR DEVELOPMENT .
939 E. COOPER AVE. - LANDMARK CONCEPTUAL - SPECIAL
HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE NOV. 2, 1994
Meeting was called to order by vice-chairman Donnelley Erdman with
Les Holst, Jake Vickery, Linda Smisek, Roger Moyer, Martha Madsen
and Tom Williams Present. Excused were Joe Krabacher and Roger
Moyer.
COMMITTEE & STAFF COMMENTS
Donnelley: We have a site visit at noon on 930 King Street
regarding a pre-demolition and how the fabric of the old building
will be saved.
MOTION: Martha made the motion to approve the minutes of September
28, 1994 as revised; second by Tom. All in favor, motion carries.
306 S. MILL STREET - UTE MOUNTAINEER - MINOR DEVELOPMENT
Amy: They are trying to visually connect an existing non-historic
building to the adjacent non-historic building which is Ute
Mountaineer right now. They are doing this by creating a gable
form.
Bob Wade, owner: The designs matches and the sign that will hang
matches the existing. There is not clapboard below the gable and
we are suggesting beadboard as does tie into the beadboard on the
other side. The color would be painted similarly to our other
building. The buildings are 16 inches apart and the other part of
our project is that we are going to build an eight to ten foot
corridor between the two buildings set back in and you wouldn't be
able to see it. Just the gable alone looks stark to me and it is
a big expanse of brick which to me is not good looking.
Donnelley: This is a removable element and you are scabbing over
what is underneath.
Bob Wade: We want to do something tasteful and your input is
welcomed.
Donnelley: I find no problem with it and it is better.
MOTION: Les made the motion to approve the minor development for
306 S. Mill; second by Tom.
Tom: I feel the gable projection ties in with the other one.
Jake: I wish there was something here that could tie in with the
historical commercial area of the town.
Bob Wade: Art-tee gallery rents part of the building.
have already received our sign permit.
Also we
VOTE: Ail in favor, motion carries.
HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE NOV. 2, 1994
316 E. HOPKINS - HOWLING WOLF - MINOR DEVELOPMENT
Amy: This will be a coffee house and a handicapped accessible
bathroom and entrance way are being proposed. They are proposing
to do that in the back of the property so it will not be visible
from the street. The only real issue is the shed that appears on
the maps around 1904. Original windows have been removed. I do
not feel there is a problem approving this as proposed. I want to
be sure where they attach the addition to the back of the house
that they do that as gently as possible and not remove more
original materials and store the existing window if it is indeed
historic.
Stephen Levitt, owner: I do not believe it is historic.
Paul Levine, owner: We will propose an airlock at the next
meeting. Without it, it diminishes are ability to seat people
inside. We are very conscious of the way the building looks. We
are trying to find a door of the same period and the airlock would
just be on the porch and hardly noticeable.
Stephen Levitt: The airlock will be a temporary structure and we
might even try to incorporate the turned posts.
Paul Levine: We have an awning that we would like to change with
a white awning and a logo of the Howling Wolf.
Amy: Main Street Bakery has an airlock that is wood and glass and
totally encloses the porch and in my opinion that is preferable.
Jake: I have concern about the roof line and snow melting off it.
Stephen Levitt: We did many designs and if we changed the roof
then there wouldn't be room to stand in the bathroom.
Linda: Regarding the awning you might want to change to a darker
color due to the dirt factor.
Martha: When you come back with the airlock try and come up with
an alternative to plastic.
Stephen: We do not want to use plastic either.
MOTION: Martha made the motion to approve the request to construct
a new addition to the rear of the structure at 316 E. Hopkins to
be know as the Howling Wolf with the condition that the connection
between the new and older portions of the building are limited and
that the removal of historic materials is minimumized; second by
Tom. All in favor, motion carries.
HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE NOV. 2, 1994
939 E. COOPER AVE. - LANDMARK - CONCEPTUAL SPECIAL
Jake stepped down.
Vice-chairman Donnelley Erdman opened the public hearing.
Donnelley: This is a public hearing, landmark designation,
conceptual development approval including on-site relocation of the
historic resources, partial demolition and special review to exceed
85% of the allowed FAR.
Amy: I am recommending approval of the landmark designation based
on it meeting standard B, architectural importance, standard E,
neighborhood character and standard F, community character. There
is a victorian structure that has been modified on the site and
also a shed barn from the 1930's and both are to be retained in
the proposal. The property is zoned residential multi-family.
Rather than do the typical buildout which would be one large
structure with a number of units the Langley's are proposing to do
five detached buildings. They range from 800 to 1700 sqft. each.
The historic structure will be relocated and it currently is in the
center of the lot and it will be moved to the east. The shed will
move to the west. The concerns I have with cottage A, the existing
building I think there needs to be a little more accuracy in the
changes. They are proposing to move the siding and restore the
clapboard and replace windows and also there is an original
addition on the back that needs to be addressed in terms of how it
is going to be demolished. Cottage B you received revised plans
based on comments forwarded to the applicants and I think this is
a major improvement in its relationship in terms of form to the
historic structure. Some of the victorian detailing really isn't
necessary and it could even be more playful than it is and be
compatible. I am still concerned about the fact that the garage
is the most prominent feature as it is the closest to the street
but I understand the applicants have points to mention that I agree
with. Cottage C is the historical shed that is being converted and
a few other alterations in terms of windows. Cottage D I recommend
not to have the heavy stone. It is not a typical or native form.
Cottage E was fine s proposed. There are a number of setback
variances being requested and those are listed on the supplemental
sheet. Also a number of parking spaces will be asked to be waived
and that will be clarified. The project will exceed 85% of the FAR
and they have to comply with the neighborhood character guidelines.
There is an historic building listed on the inventory directly to
the west of this one. Impacts to that house need to be taken into
HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE NOV. 2, 1994
account.
Bob Langley: The genesis of this project was for us to find an
affordable way to live in town. We are familiar with the Aspen
Area Community Plan and with the Neighborhood Character Guidelines
and we wanted to re-inject into this are a sense of community and
sense of neighborhood. There are not a lot of people living in
the area on a full time basis. Our idea was to have a community
within a community. We have three free market homes. We will be
glad to work with you in anyway we can and we have tried to listen
to everyone that has an interest in this project. We do feel what
we are doing on the conceptual is compatible in character with the
designated historic structures located on the parcel. We want to
make the historic house more livable. With the revised guidelines
we are allowed 7200 sqft. and the project which we are envisioning
has 6900 sqft. We are not trying to squeeze this for every dime
that we can get out of it. It is not as dense as other projects
in the area. To our east is the Villager and to the east of that
is the Chateau Roaring Fork and then on the west Mark Thai's house.
We are trying to recapture the essence of the community of the
town. The Brass Bed In is right behind the property. The
homeowners association will take care of the property. 80% of the
units will be occupied by full-time locals. We are retaining the
historic outbuilding and complimenting it.
Bob Langley: Under partial demolition we would like to not
maintain the back 66 sqft. and we feel it is not that significant
and is not seen from the street. If we keep it one option would
be to move the project forward by four to six feet. The offstreet
parking requirement states that it shall not exceed one space per
bedroom or two spaces per bedroom whichever is less. Most of the
traffic that comes by is pedestrian traffic and there is presently
no sidewalk but we will incorporate one.
Darnell Langley: Visually when you look down Cleveland Street
towards Aspen Mountain you will look into the courtyard and
visually see it.
Sewart Lusk did the art work and Marsha Goshorn pu~ the packet
together.
Donnelley: We should start with cottage A and we need to determine
what is going to be removed from the cottage.
Darnell Langley: It would be a total of three or four feet off the
back.
Donnelley: We can assume that the historic element is the taller
element and you are stripping the garage and the shed in the back
of the historic house and stripping a gable form newer addition off
HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE NOV. 2, 1994
the south which is the back. The demolition of the 66 sqft. is
demolition of the historic resource.
Darnell Langley: With the lot split we either had to get into the
setback or cut part of the historic building off.
Stewart Lusk, architect: The garage shown is on the setback line
and the main part of the house is a few feet back.
Donnelley: Cottage B which is a new structure is misleading. It
is trying to pick up a victorian structure and it is in opposition
as to what we are trying to get at. It is busier and there are a
lot of added on design features which could detract from the
historic resource.
Bob Langley: We could go back to the original cottage B.
Donnelley: You have a wonderful situation here.
Tom: I like the concept of the site plan and all the wonderful
amenities that the sit plan reflects but it concerns me and it has
been the criticism of the~neighborhood guidelines that people are
lead into doing this miners cottage vocabulary and I would rather
see something different. Aspen does not presently have a miners
cottage character. If you walk all over town there is almost every
period since 1900 represented. In Cottage A it seems fussy.
Donnelley: The buildings should be subservient to the historic
cottage and should not cry out. You have wonderful manipulation
of volumes and roof forms and if one took this totally as a
monochromatic project and just looked at the light and shade plate
in these forms you would be well on your way to success. This
project will present a welcoming picture of what can be
accomplished in Aspen and what has been accomplished~i.e, rather
blocky commercial situations.
Darnell: We just want to give you what you want and we just don't
understand where to go now.
Donnelley: We are not looking for replication of past structures.
Stewart Lusk: We started off with the garden court and we feel
strong about that. Then you get the shape of the house.
Donnelley: No one is criticizing the shape of the houses. We are
talking about historic references or non-historic references and
trying to distinguish between the historic resource and the newer
resource and you may be creating more of a problem for yourself
than actually exists.
· HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE NOV. 2, 1994
Les: The process will work for you, us and the neighborhood.
Saving as much of the original building is what I like to see and
you have done that. The neighborhood is the scale and massing.
Linda: I do not know if what I have to say will make it more clear
but the confusion comes when you look at the victorian and you try
and make everything else kind of like it but if you look at the
group of houses and have the historic structure be the most
prominent and the others taken down into a more simple structure
or level.
Bob Langley: We need to make it evolve and show some
transformation through town. We want to set the tone for what is
coming after the miners cottages.
Amy: I feel this is too complex and it imitates a victorian house
and that is not the direction we want you to go. You find a common
line of the things that are important about that historic house,
mass and scale, rhythm and you work from that. We are not asking
you to reproduce a victorian.
Martha: I feel cottage A is appropriate.
Donnelley: In Cottage B it is not clear what is intended. How do
you deal with styling within the site.
Darnell: Also the historic barn, how do you deal with that.
Tom: Why can't you make them all different. The barn is
appropriate.
Marsha Goshorn: We were lead to believe you wanted it to look like
an historic victorian, flashier.
Amy: Compatible does not mean it has to look like something and
it does not have to be victorian.
Donnelley: You also haven't talked about shingles or siding.
Tom: I do not want it flashier.
Donnelley: We are on the wrong dialogue. The quietest building
in the world could be contemporary. You are there in scale and
massing.
Don Crawford: There is only three feet of buffer between the
building and I can reach that far. We need more respect for the
neighbors privacy. My major concern is the people density on the
neighborhood. If this project is not designated and remains in the
zoning that is now you could only have ten bedrooms above grade.
HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE NOV. 2, 1994
In this particular designation there will be 18 bedrooms and only
ten parking spaces. I feel it should not be designated.
Lisa Miller: I live in #8 of the Villager on the alley side right
next to theirs. I would loose my light to the downstairs. I also
feel 8 feet is not much of a variance. Density is a problem. I
see more congestion and noise occurring. I also feel the parking
is a disaster there anyway. I feel the concept is good but the
density is our main concern and what is going to happen when the
parking comes into effect when people already park up there that
work in town.
Donnelley: Does anyone know what the set back is on the Villager
on the west property lie.
Bob: It encroaches and the property is elevated three feet above
our ground level. We have seven bedrooms above ground. Also
everyone has two parking spaces.
Darnell: We are also on the bus route and people will be taking
the bus to get to work and leaving their cars at home.
Marsha.Goshorn: This kind of development discourages the use of
cars.
Donnelley: Cottage D is taking something and trying to make it
different just for the sake of difference.
Darnell: Our concept was because that was between two barns we
wanted to keep the board and batten and on all of our units we
wanted a stone foundation that will have the continuity throughout
all five units. We wanted it to look more like a farm house
because it was sitting between two barns.
Donnelley: The competition comes from detailing. What is hard to
understand is D and B.
Linda: D and B need to be compatible with the historic structure
and that is the challenge.
Donnelley: We are also dealing with other issues such as
designation, setbacks.
Amy: I feel we are near but feel tabling is appropriate. We need
more discussion on how the project effects the neighbors in terms
of the setbacks. One of the reasons we have three foot setbacks
is that the left the historic barn in its existing orientation.
If they twisted it they would have all the room they need but I do
not think we want to see that change. In the front they could move
the buildings close together and not need a variance.
HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE NOV. 2, 1994
Les: One of my considerations is the setbacks which can violate
the flow of the neighborhood.
Donnelley: In this particular case we might want to rotate the
barn in order to provide a better setback.
Darnell: That would cut down on the parking.
Tom: I agree with rotating the historic barn and it might be an
advantage to turn it and get the buildings away from the property
lines.
Martha: I would like to site visit the property before I approve
rotating the barn.
Les: Saving it is my concern and if turning it is a benefit for
the project and neighbors on either side and you can show me that
then I have no problem.
Martha: It is worth exploring.
Amy: I haven't seen a structural report on the barn to see if it
can be moved.
Darnell: I concerned about the exterior finished of B and D, what
can we introduce that will not clash.
Donnelley: Stucco, shingles, corrugated steel are possibilities.
Amy: I feel stucco is not appropriate.
Tom: It is a non-material and is positive because it is not trying
to say something about history.
Donnelley: I agree with the use of stucco.
Les: I also don't mind the use of a few logs.
Martha: Isn't giving approval of the locations on the site for
the buildings enough and he should work from that.
Sewart Lusk: The historic one sets the pace.
Tom: On the three new buildings your architect should use his
imagination. We are not trying to guide you to make a horizontal
siding or anything. Your architect should give you an imaginative
design.
MOTION: Les made the motion to table Landmark Designation,
HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE NOV. 2, 1994
Conceptual Review, Special Review to exceed 85% and on-site
relocation for 939 E. Cooper to a date certain Nov. 9, 1994;
second by Martha. Ail in favor, motion carries.
MOTION: Donnelley made the motion to adjourn; second by Martha.
All in favor, motion carries.
Meeting adjourned at 7:00 p.m.
Kathleen J. Strickland, Chief Deputy Clerk