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HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.hpc.19940209HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE Minutes of February 9, 1994 CODE AMENDMENT PROPOSED STAINED GLASS WINDOWS ST. MARY'S CHURCH 300 W. MAIN STREET - MCDONALD'S - MINOR DEVELOPMENT CITY MALL - WORKSESSION 706 W. MAIN STREET, KRABACHER - WORKSESSION 309 E. HOPKINS - KATIE REID BUILDING HOLDENMAROLT ELECTION OF CHAIRMAN AND VICE-CHAIRMAN 1 3 3 6 9 15 16 16 HISTORIC PRESERVATION COI~ITTEE ~nutee of Feb~az~, 9~ ~994 Meeting was called to order by chairman Bill Poss with Les Holst, Donnelley Erdman, Joe Krabacher, Karen Day, Linda Smisek, Martha Madsen, Jake Vickery and Roger Moyer present. COMMISSIONER COMMENTS Amy: We need to add Katie Reid to the agenda and the Holden Marolt property. MOTIONs Joe made the motion to add to the agenda the Katie Reid building 308 E. Hopkins and the Holden Marolt Mining Ranch; second by Roger. Ail in favor, motion carries. MOTIONz Don made the motion to approve the minutes of January 12th, second by Linda. Ail in favor, motion carries. CODE AMENDMENT PROPOSED Amy: Regarding the Kraut property Harry Teague and architects are proposing a code amendment which would allow architectural projections to extend a little more into the setbacks. Diane Moore asked HPC to give a comment. Joede Schoeberlin, architect: This is what can project from the building into the setback, the yard as it is known in the zoning code. Balconies can project up to four feet. The two that have come into a debate are the eaves. A roof eave is allowed to project 18 inches and architectural projections which are allowed to project 12 inches. It is our feeling that the distinction is very ambiguous. In this case we wanted to add an architectural element at the base along original and Hyman and in keeping with the guidelines of trying to bring down the scale to meet the street and soften the building. What we are proposing is consistent with the guidelines but we found a code definition problem. In terms of the impact on the public space there is not really a difference between what an architectural projection and what a roof eave does. In this case we wanted to provide things which were made of roofing material like the roofs themselves but zoning wouldn't allow us to call them roofs. There are many fazes in traditional architecture where the roof projects over the building wall and turns around the corner and becomes an architectural projection by the zoning definition and it doesn't protect anybody from rain or anything. In terms of trying to use the 18 inch projection that it was consistent with the means of the character guidelines. We feel it will help this project and not cause harm. Amy: This is the Kraut affordable project and is outside of the historic district so the neighborhood character guidelines come into play. HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE Minutes of February 9, 1994 Committee Member Comments Martha: It states the 18 inch projection into the setback, where is that? Joede: On Original Street the building is setback 10 feet per zoning code and on Hyman the property line is just outside the garden wall (6.8). Roofs may project 18 and architectural projects may only project 12 inches. Our problem with zoning is that they are not comfortable calling it a roof. They were questioning whether it had practical value. Amy: It does fit in with the character guidelines and envisioning that site without the porches is not appropriate. Joede: We would like the architectural projection 18 inches the same as the roof eaves which is 18 inches in the code. Under the definition of architectural projection it states something that is non-functional, decorative etc. Amy: Maybe there could also be a clarification of what an architectural projection is. We don't want to eliminate something like this because it is not creating extra mass and visually is bringing the sides of it down. Donnelley: We need a better definition of what an architectural projection is. Amy: I would like to have a consensus of whether the committee in looking at this project feels this sort of thing should happen. Roger: The issues are is this a benefit and should it happen and we would need a definition of what an architectural projection is. Jake: The only down side would be that it would restrict the width of the yard. Amy: It would depend on how it is defined because this does not restrict the use of the yard. I will forward that on to Diane that we have consensus. Les: I was trying to think of why it was done this way and I can see a huge amount of snow dropping off the roof. We need to look at this carefully because if I had anything that extended out the same distance as my eaves it would all be gone. Joe: I am generally in favor of a code amendment and it will have to go through P&Z and Council anyway. If it helps break up the HISTORIC PRESERV&TION COMMITTEE N~nutss of Fe~:h--ua~, 9~ ~994 massing I would be in favor of it. Jake: It could effect all eaves. Amy: Only architectural. MOTIONs Joe made the motion that the HPC is in favor of the code amendment; second by Donnelley. Passes 6 to 1. STAINED GLASS WINDOWS ST. MARYmS CHURCH Amy: On the north side of the church there are two windows and the church has had a donor offer to buy them two stained glass windows. There are stained glass windows all over the building and they would like to put them in the existing locations. I would like to get approval for the locations and when they are ready to get the windows we could look at the design. Roger: They are not enlarging an existing opening. MOTION~ Roger made the motion that St. Mary's Church be allowed to install stained glass windows as requested; second by Les. All in favor, motion carries. Jake will be monitor on windows. 300 W. MAIN STREET - MCDONALD,8 - MINOR DEVELOPMENT Amy: We had looked at this fence earlier in a worksession and the McDonald's have submitted a photograph for the proposed fence. My feeling due to the large pine trees and the way that you see the McDonald's house that you won't connect this with their house you will think of it more connected with the Smith Elisha carriage house. Caroline McDonald, owner of the log cabin on Main Street: Right now it is a stockade fence and we are ten feet below grade than the Elisha house. We put natural siding on the addition and we want to keep it in the spirit of the cabin which is historically designated. We don't want to use logs or split logs for the fence. We chose stockade or split cedar that would weather with the cabin. Joe: Will the fence just go on Main Street or between the Elisha house also. Caroline: We planted trees between the Elisha house and eventually we will put an old iron fence in the front. The separation will be really clear. H~STOR~C PRESERVATION COMI~TTEE ~nu~es of Febml&~-~ 9, ~994 Joe: How does the fence end when it gets to the Elisha house? Caroline: The trees start right there and go along the Elisha house. The bus stop is on Main Street and the exhaust and fumes are awful. We wanted it four feet from the retaining wall. Donnelley: How is the fence going to be supported? Caroline: I think it is bolted into the retaining wall. Donneley: Normally it would sit behind the wall and be bolted to the back of the retaining wall. The retaining wall is about ten inches wide. Caroline: We will do what the building department wants. It is a code violation not to have something on the retaining wall because it is more than 36 inches on top. Amy: You have a three foot retaining wall and then a four foot fence. I am trying to imagine how high this is. Roger: The retaining wall is not on your property so you would have to get a city easement. Donnelley: You would have to have a steel brace in the back and it would be attached to the fence. I am a little concerned about the fence not returning. Amy: Why don't you put the fence on your property? loose a little yard space. You would Caroline: You would crate a space between the retaining wall and the fence and that wouldn't work. My son broke his arm falling off of it. Jake: I feel we should focus on the appearance of the fence. Caroline: It is split cedar and weathers. Jake: I am worried that it is a little crude for Main Street plus it is this long continuous thing. Possibly do some rhythm to break it up, some posts at each end. I am not opposed to the function of it at all. Donnelley: I agree with Jake and you could get a 1 x 6 rough sawn cedar board standard fencing which usually has a chanford on top and you see them all over town and they are just a little more formal. They do weather the same and the cost is the same. Installing is the same. It gives it a little bigger scale as your 4 HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE Minutes of February 9, 1994 proposal is too small for this huge length. The larger scale is appropriate for Main Street. Caroline: We chose this type to go along with the historical cabin. Donnelley: You don't see the cabin you see the fence first and the trees. Roger: If the fence goes up will the trees have to be trimmed? Caroline; I don't think so and we haven't cut one branch off. Joe: If they hang into the sidewalk you would have to trim them. Les: I could go with either one of them; Either the split cedar or the stockade. The problem is with the long flow and maybe you could put in a fake post to break up the long flow. Linda: Is there a reason for keeping the retaining wall? Caroline: The city put it there to hold the sidewalk. Les: If they didn't have it everything would flow into their property. Karen: I just feel we need to see a drawing. Les: How long is it? Caroline: Approximately 70 feet. We also have siberian pea shrubs that will be above the fence. I feel it is better to have something smooth so that you don't focus on the fence. Hopefully we will get the irrigation ditch in place this spring and do plantings by the bus stop. Les: I sat on the wall for about thirty minutes and it feels like you are in a pit. Joe: Having lived on Main Street I can sympathize with the problem because there is a lot of dust and stuff that is kicked up from the bus. It is a unique situation because there are no other properties on Main Street that are down like that below the surface level. There are other privacy fences on Main Street that meet our guidelines now. I am in favor of the general concept but concerned on how it will look with all those small elements on a 70 foot run. Maybe there is someway to break that up. Putting in post to break it up. HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE Minutes of Fehruar~ 9, 1994 Les: I can live with the fence and feel a few posts should be located every 8 feet just to break it up a little. Donnelley: I think if you are going to leave it up to the monitor that is OK but the committee should determine whether the proposed fence has the appropriate scale. There is a big difference between the stockade pieces which are about 2 to 2 1/2 inches wide and using the one by six cedar fence which gives a different scale and the scale that is a more finished scale for Main Street. I don't think you are relating this fence as strongly with the log cabin as you are with the pedestrian aspects of Main Street. The actual construction details are not as important to me as the scale. Joe: Maybe they should come back with an elevation and show us a drawing of what it is going to look like from the street. Donnelley: The fence needs a structural element at the beginning and at the end. In that 90 feet span even if there were one every ten feet it would definitely make a difference on how your perceive the fence on the street. Joe: I am concerned about the ending. Caroline: One reason we wanted the split cedar was that we wanted to do it on both sides so we were visually looking at something. Also we intend to put lead sheeting in between the two. Using the one by six it would become two inches thick and the cedar shades are much thinner. Les: Pioneer Park has the split cedar on the back. Karen: I just feel that we don't know how this is going to look. MOTION: Roger made the motion that we grant minor development approval for a fence to be installed at 300 W. Main on Lots Q, R, S, block 44 with the following condition: That the fence be constructed of cedar whose width is to be determined by Staff, that posts are inserted at different interims of the fence and that a submission of a drawing of the construction is submitted to the monitor for final approval. Died for lack of a second. Donnelley: This is on City land therefore it cannot be a flimsy little drawing. The city is basically responsible so it will have to be a detailed plan. Les: The City will require that it be a monolift and not fall over. HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE Minutes of February 9, 1994 MOTIONs Donnelley made the motion that the fence as proposed of wood be submitted to the HPC showing the elevation of the street as well as plans and details of how it is going to be constructed; second by Roger. Ail in favor, motion carries. Caroline: require. Including the specks that the building department will Donnelley: We are saying the committee is not against a fence but we need to know more about it to make a decision. Jake: I would encourage you to look at the streetscape and what is going along Main Street and not get focused on a fence for your property but something that contributes to the streetscape and solves your problem. Caroline: I wanted something simple so the trees in the front and the pine trees in the back disappear when you see the Elisha house. The Garden Club of Aspen is interested in doing plantings on Main Street but we cannot get the irrigation ditch. CITY HALL - WORKSESSION Amy: The proposal is to excavate a basement in City Hall and create new council chambers with offices so we need to discuss an exit and lightwells. Cris Caruso, City Engineer: According to the Master Plan we are renovating the basement. We have two different options. There are three reasons why I am here and number one is to get your input towards the design. It is really important that we work together from the start. Number two is to perhaps have a monitor work with the designing and construction teams. Some exiting system and light system for the basement facilities. We want to get as much light into the basement as possible. Amy: Right now we are talking about the staircase coming out the back of the building into the park. We are also discussing window wells. Cris: The Sister City Room will move to the basement. Donnelley: What is the function of the exterior stair, is it required egress or an entrance to the building? Cris: It is required egress and does not need to be that wide. Because this will be the council chambers we thought this would be a good area to congregate into the park while waiting. HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE Minutes of February 9, 1994 Amy: What happened to the issues of the sidewalk and overhangs. Cris: We are not going to do that due to the snow. discuss the lightwells. We need to Martha: You show the stairs on the east side but you favor the south side? Cris: side. Due to overhang on the south side we cannot use the south Roger: Why not have the entrance on the north side? Cris: There is electrical components there and snow sheds a great amount on that side. Bill: If you could get the sister city room over and utilize the smaller windows there would be no need for the sidewalk and if you are doing an entrance to the park it should be very elegant and terraced so that it is part of the park and make the council chambers much nicer. Amy: The Bldg. Dept. might approve a flat grate rather than put up a metal rail. Bill: By code you would have a massive railing and not one that would fit in historically. Cris: What about a grate in the sidewalk grade. Roger: When you put a grate in you cut down on the light so I feel it should be flip flopped and have a larger opening on the north side and have more light on the space. Cris: We also have the plumbing on the north side and it all hangs down from the bathroom and we really don't want to do that. There is not much light on the north side. Donnelley: On the east facade where you are going down to the council chambers you might want to consider a roof over hang similar to the one on the south side that is bracketed off the building. Cris: There are two different plans, one with office space in the basement and the other one is with office space downstair and leave the council chambers where they are. Council has not determined that. H~STOR~C PRESERVaTiON COI, fI~TTEE N~nutes of Febru&r~' 9~ 2994 Jake: If you had the office space down below the egress space would be less but you would still have to use the front door as the entrance. The back stair would become the egress. It could be small and tucked in. Roger: It is important if you decide the council chambers will be in the basement and have a large entrance or you put the offices down stairs and leave council chambers upstairs and make it much less of an impact on the historic building and the garden. I am inclined to favor the latter. It is less of an impact without the garden entrance. Karen: I feel the opposite of Roger because the stairs would give it sort of an anti-room to talk to each other and hang out with numerous people hanging out before the meeting and after the meeting. There is no real place to just sit down and mingle. It would be a nice addition in the summer time to be able to open it up. In the interest of compromise you could do both, make a small entrance downstairs for offices and open up the council chambers out directly to the garden level. Roger: But you are putting in a new opening to an historic structure. We are in charge of having the minimum impact on the historic building. We should not be putting on huge entrances. Maintain the integrity of the structure. Jake: That is true but you also have to look at adaptive reuse and make these old buildings work for current needs. Bill: They could have designed a better working building from within. Roger: The real issue is when the city went to deal with this building and they did it piece meal with no overall master plan, now they want to come back and still do it piece meal. The building should be shut down and totally redone from within. That would alleviate all this. From a tax payers dollars or plain common sense this never has made sense. Cris: There is a master plan and it strictly sets up the schedule for the improvements of the building on a yearly basis. The master plan does call for the chambers to be in the basement. Amy: There has to be a stair case it is just a matter of whether it will be a simple staircase or a garden entrance. Jake: Why can't the stair case just relate to the other existing staircase. There is one over in the corner. H~STOR~C PREBERV~T~ON CO~TTEE N~nutes of Februar~ 9, L994 Cris: It is too narrow and can't continue it down in that area. Too narrow of an area and not enough room to basically continue it down. Structurally we would have to go through and underpin. There is only three foot wall foundation in this building. We don't have the money to around the corner. Jake: You are utilizing an existing entrance and it is just as easy to come in the back door as it is to come in the front. You aren't taking up a lot of park area here. Cris: We looked at that from the start to go down the front stair and down the back stair. Number one why it would not work is the space to do it. Jake: It seems like there should be a way to take off the main level circulation pattern and take it down into the lower level. Bill: As direction there should be minimal impact to the building. Work the existing stairway down on the back. Access all three levels with the stairway. You could use light wells on the street level if they were small. Jake: If you put your council chambers in the basement you really don't need windows. If you open the windows that are existing it just creates a noise problem. 706 W. F,~,IN STREET~ K.~,%BACHER - WORKSESS~ON David Panico, architect for Joe Krabacher presented proposed plans. Joe Krabacher, owner: Susie and I have lived in the house for six years and we had a variety of architects and different plans that we have looked at to try and come up with something. This particular design which has a flat roof on the addition was my idea. I thought about it after Glenn Rappaport presented his plans and partially we had the desire to not overwhelm the historic house. I would like to have a purist type approach in restoring the historic house. It is such a simple design and unusual in that most of the projects that you will see the gable ends are facing the street. I did a post board of the flat structures that are on Main Street. We looked at an addition with a peaked roof but I didn't like how it overwhelmed the historic house. I rather like the Lily Reid project where the house is a showcase and you have something different behind it. All I ask is that you keep an open mind and not just reject it because it has a flat roof. On this end of Main Street there is a question as to whether the four lane is going to come through or stay the way it is. If it comes through there will be a stop light on the corner of Seventh and ~0 H'rBTORTC PRESERVATTON COM~TTTEE M~nutes oE Febru&r¥ 9~ L994 Main Street. Dave Panico, architect: Basically I wanted to describe the problems that we had trying to design around the historic building. The small house or rather the historic str~cture will be restored. No matter what you build behind this small structure it tends to over power it. We have moved the historic structure forward and west and then tried to separate the proposed structure from the historic structure. The historic structure has such a small door even though it is in the center it is really not appropriate to use the historic structure as an entry hall to the structure behind it. I am just describing some of the problems that we had going through the process. Joe felt it very important that the historic building should be very distinct from all four corners to define it, that it be evident as you drive by. To separate the buildings there is the most minimal connection between the old and new and is comprised of a 13 foot wide hallway that enters through the right hand rear corner of the existing structure into the new structure. I kind of see that the existing structure would be a suite of offices distinct from the rear building. To further separate it from the building behind it to satisfy the employee housing part of the approval process we sunk a patio behind the structure. You descent into that by a stair case so that literally there will be a separation, a well. It would be about 26 feet before the new structure starts. The width of the historic structure is 27 and depth is 13. CLARIFICATIONS Roger: The historic part of the house as it exists this moment is only the front portion that has the gable that runs east and west. Joe: There is a new roof but I can't tell how much of it is. Roger: The front portion sits on a rubble foundation. Joe: There is a crawl space and it has wood siding underneath and my intent is to strip that off and restore the original wood that is there. We put a new roof on it this year and there was water damage to the walls but to what extent we don't know yet. Roger: What is historical is the frame, two windows, door opening and maybe the porch and shutters. Joe: The porch is not original. There are three windows that are original, two on the south L and the one that is on the east L. Roger: Would it be possible to not have the building touch so that as you walk up the street and you looked at the entrance which now HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE Minutes of February 9, 1994 touches the historic structure that there actually would be a space there. Dave: It isn't vital that they touch but at the back corner we have expressed the separation by taking it back behind the building and returning. Joe: I feel it has to touch just to have it function as one space. We might be able to move it in and back a little. Roger: The reason for that though is that we have had a lot of discussions about when we add on to an historic structure as a connector rather than one building touching and bearing over the other. Jake: Does your program require any variance or FAR increases. Joe: We are not asking for variances in terms of side yard or rear yard setbacks. We are going to P&Z for a special review to do the one to one FAR. We are putting the employee housing in the basement and we would have two two bedroom units. Amy: I have two clarifications. Do you have to go through growth management. Joe: No it is exempt as it is historic but I do have to go through council for an exemption. Amy: Technically you would need a recommendation from HPC for the one to one FAR. Joe: Regarding parking if it can fit on site you are obligated to put them on the site. If they don't fit the HPC can waive the parking requirement. Jake: They have the ability to waive and traditionally they have. Amy: Outright waiving all of the spaces we have never done. Joe: If you take the Lily Reid project there were 21 spaces that were required and you allowed them to have three surface spaces and waived 18 spaces. Jake: That is the commercial core though. Bill: When you shift the building to the west what happens to the large trees? Dave: There is one tree that will be near the sidewalk where the lZ HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE Minutes of February 9, 1994 ADU will be and could interfere with the foundation/or retaining · wall for the patio. Joe: In the code it states that all parking that cannot fit on site shall be waived. I didn't realize that was the case until I started reading the code on exemption. COMMISSIONER COMMENTS Les: I feel this will work but I do have a concern about the tree. Joe: We do not plan on taking the trees out and will work around it with the plans. Les: I have been looking at the flat roof and it grows on you after awhile. Donnelley: The site analysis and general planning seems to be very rational in placement of the existing historic structure and the relationship to the other building. The other building has an awkward relation in terms of joining the very modest historic structure. Since the historic structure is modest this is an ideal opportunity for a contemporary building in the rear. The one shown has a very heavy and intricate profile on the cornice that really calls a lot of attention. Anything that goes behind the building is going to over shadow the very delicate detailed cottage unless it is a modern contemporary building and it is a tough design problem. It is an ideal situation for it. The linkage is awkward and it requires something that is quiet that can relate in terms of materials and the general feeling of the neighborhood but you don't need an historic building back there and this looks historic. The proposal has strong historic overtones. Dave: We really tried to make a departure from the historic detailing there while the whole massing might be reminiscent with the false front and the detailing was meant to be crisp and modern. It was meant to be historic in massing but contemporary in detail. Joe: Do you have a suggestion as to how we can make that linkage a little less awkward? Donnelley: Probably to the detriment of producing revenues I would make it a one story rather than coming right up to it with two stories or step back with some sort of articulation. It could be one story for six or eight feet and then go to the second story. Karen: Stylistically the stapleton house looked like a big old bungalow and this looks likes a little building with something that HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE Minutes of Februar]f 9, 1994 should be in the core area behind it. It doesn't look like a residential house. Martha: What is the size of the lot? Joe: 50 by 100 so it is non-conforming but the code amendment makes historic landmarks conform now. Martha: Is the historic structure going to be an ADU? Dave: No, it will be an office or retail. Roger: Will the historic structure have a new foundation and basement? Dave: Yes. Linda: In looking at the plans the only thing I see is the back structure. I would like to see something a little more compatible with the historic structure. The style of the proposed building is something that should be downtown. I like the patio area behind. Dave: Initially we had something more residential. Les: Karen's comment about retaining the residential is very important. Roger: The tree needs to be studied and I have given Amy plans on how to save trees. I would like to see a space between the new structure and historic cottage. If that is not possible I would concur with Donnelley that the second floor of the new addition should be set back to create a step approach. I find that the wide band at the mid level is quite over powering as the false front on the front and wide bands. The concept of the court yard works well. Donnelley: One of the problems I see with this building is that a two story structure with a hat on it, be it a cornice or a roof, is not appropriate. One can make a two story but make the second story buried in the roof. Incorporate windows or dormers into the roof form so that you are making a cottage expression in the rear that does not compete with the historic yet it is two story and the scale would be kept down and you would get the required square footage. It may be that some of the office walls are sloping. Jake: I like the strategy and moving the cottage over to the west and sneaking along the side to the building in the rear. I echo Donnelley's concerns and thoughts about single story linkage into 14 HISTORIC PRESERV/%TION COMMITTEE Minutes of February 9, 1994 the old cottage and holding back the wall of the new structure maybe six or eight feet. If there are some elements of the little house that could be taken and played with and keyed off of in the addition I think that is appropriate. I do like the staggered approach. The courtyard works well but it will be dark. In relationship to the cottage the court yard works well. On the stapleton house I am still uncomfortable with it and with my vote on it. I am worried that the entire thing on Main St. is effected and we didn't have things in place to defend the historic structures. The fact that it was a corner lot put it in a special condition. Reducing the vertical scale so that it is not so towering would be appropriate. I would prefer the stepping scheme. The idea that the house in the back should be contemporary works. It distinguishes itself from the old and new. If it is a little victorian in a way I can live with that. It doesn't have to be dramatically contemporary as that might go to the extreme. Karen: For you consideration there should be a relationship between the house and addition similar to the Elisha house and its relationship to the barn. Roger: I feel the structure behind could almost be a duplicate of the little house. Joe: If you look at the south elevation to get the head height on the second floor if you put on a gable or any kind of pitched roof all of a sudden you are five feet higher. Jake: The building that my office is in is the Neil Ross bldg. and it is a building that is built to the rear. The front part of the building is an historical piece. It staggers up in the back. That massing concept is something you might want to look at. Bill: As chairman you summarize what is said and try to pull it all together of the applicant. When I first looked at the presentation I was quite startled but the more I heard the approach is exciting. There is a lot that can happen with this and it is all there. Being an architect that checks others work in the office I often find that I have to catch myself and I offer this caution to the Board. You have to be careful when looking at the drawings as each architect is trying to highlight certain things. It is important that we think three dimensional and think of what is going to happen in the future. That is why models and photographs are so important. It is important to look at the streetscape here and I am convinced that the character should remain residential on Main Street because there are more residential buildings than there are lodges. Even the lodges have a residential feel. I like the modernist approach similar to Queen Street is probably a better back drop for this building. If it has 15 HISTORIC PRESERVATION COI~TTEE Ninu~as of Fabru&r~ 9, 2994 a modernistic approach it means it really doesn't have too much detail that relates to anything and it becomes a quiet back drop. What is important we always ask clients to relate to the structure and we have never had a successful solution. If this building did not have a pitched roof and had a different quieter top it one allows the applicant to bring it down and it becomes a quieter back drop for this structure. This structure then reads stronger and you see it in their true elevation. When you have a massing model you would see how quiet the massing would become. There are two approaches get cottage like and replicate the residential feeling or go to the modernistic approach which is a nondescript building such as 17 Queen street as it enhanced the older structure and made you look at the older structure. I think they are really onto something here and I like the way the building is stepped back because it enhances the historic structure and allows the building to be received. The other thing that it allows is in the streetscape who knows what will happen next door and it gives the opportunity for these buildings to read up front and the back be a quiet building. I think if you study how the connection works you might be able to make it a minimal connection so that the building does read as a second building in the back. Being its own statement but quiet. Joe you were right on, by not having to replicate the shape to get the head room you could probably keep it quieter. If it were lower it would almost go away. Joe: What about 134 East Bleeker, that approach is successful. Bill: I think it is the reverse, here you have a much smaller structure on the front and you have the problem of going from a smaller to a bigger structure. Those were more compatible and more equal. One was a little bit bigger but it was OK. You have an incentive here because there can be so much built on the back. If you get it quieter, it can work. I feel this will be more successful than the Lily Reid if the back gets quieter. The Lily Reid is too big on the back and causes too much attention but it is successful because it highlights the little cottage on the front. Donnelley: I mentioned mansard and there is the possibility of having a simple building with slab sides that don't step back but on the second floor use the roofing material. The second story would have a different kind of siding than the ground floor. Jake: Possible do a composition of three or more forms on the same parcel that break down and have their own identity. David: The structure in the foreground is its own structure with its own entrance. We are not wedded to the hat design. HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE Minutes of February 9, 1994 Joe: We are definitely looking at wood as the material. 309 E. HOPKINS - KATIE REID BUILDINO Amy: The corner space on the new part of the building is going to be a restaurant and they want to change the layout of the windows and doors. This is ground level. There are changes to the north side, windows and one door and change it all to all windows and on the other side, west L exists all windows and two doors and they want to have all windows and only one of the doors and they are talking about bricking in one of the windows for a closet space. The reason they are doing this is because it is a restaurant and they want wall space. It would be the same material. Bill: The only problem I have is the bricking up. One of the things we talked about is keeping the historic fronts. Blocking that up takes away from the historic fronts. Roger: They don't have to brick the window they can paint the inside of it and put in the closet. The paint is removable. Then you aren't changing the look. They could also use an opaque glass. Amy: I will recommend the painting and opaque glass. HOLDEN M~ROLT Amy: The Holden Marolt can no longer put the bathrooms inside the barn due to environmental conditions etc. so they want to put them on the outside of the building. There is already a shed and they want to do two stalls. The shed is on the south side. Les: It shouldn't have any difference and they have to do it some place. Roger: There is another building behind that building, the salt shed, why can't they go in there? I am not in favor of putting the bathrooms next to the building. It takes away from the integrity of the structure. Amy: There is no reason why they couldn't do a separate structure. Roger: I would much rather see a separate structure built or use the other building that is on the space. We have put a lot of time in the building and how it is handled. If the building were in use in the mining area they would have built an outhouse. HISTORIC PRESERVATION COI~TTEE Minutes of February 9, 1994 ELECTION OF CHAIRMAN AND VICE-CHAIRMAN Bill: I would like to pass on my gavel as I am getting off the Board soon. I would like to see the guidelines go on. I only have one things to say is that I hope you all keep your sense of humor and that we retain a reputation on the Board that is fun. We are controversial but humor is important. I got on this board at least ten years ago because it was too serious and out of control. I feel this Board has done a good job in the past. Amy: Being the chairman you must be available for phone calls and keep on top of the projects and keep good records. Right now Donnelley and Joe are your vice chairs. Bill: Calls come in from applicants to inquire about insight on projects and presentation procedures. Roger: Donnelley are you ready to assume chairmanship? Donnelley: I would like that but I will be out of town during the winter. Roger nominated Joe Krabacher as chairman. Joe: I am out of town occasionally but feel I can serve as chairman. I would suggest that we rotate the chairman like the BOCC does. Roger: One of the strongest points has been Bill's ability to summarize at the end and that is a difficult thing to do and my personal view is either Joe or Donnelley can do that well. I also feel if someone is away we should all step in at some point and get the experience of chairing a meeting. Bill: After a meeting I always found applicants calling and asking for a summary of the meeting so i decided to do it at the end of each meeting. Nobody wants to repeat what someone else said but it is important to state if you agree or disagree then the chairman knows how many are in favor or not in favor of an issue. MOTION~ Roger made the motion to nominate Joseph Krabacher as chairman of the Historic Preservation Committee; second by Donnelley. Ail in favor, motion carries. MOTION: Roger made the motion to nominate Donnelley as first vice- chairman and Les Holst and second vice-chairman; second by Linda. Ail in favor, motion carries. H~STOR~C PRESERVaTiON COI. fl~ITTEE ~nu2e$ of Fe~uar~ 9~ ~994 Donnelley: My feeling is that it is a mistake that you have to live in the City. We have lost numerous good members who had to get off because they no longer lived in the city. Possibly the code should be changed. Roger: A lot of talent is lost. Bill: Mona Frost gave me a rule book which was given to Georgeann Waggaman and I will bring that in for Joe. ~OT~ON~ Roger made the motion to adjourn; in favor, motion carries. Meeting adjourned at 7:45 P.M. Kathleen J. St~ckland, Chief Deputy Clerk second by Linda. Ail