HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.hpc.19940223H~stor~c Preserv&2ion Co~t2ee
~nute$ o~ Febz'uar¥ 23, Z994
107 JUAN STREET - RELOCATION, PUBLIC HEARING
HOLDEN-MAROLT MUSEUM - MINOR DEVELOPMENT
130 S. GALENA ( CITY HALL) - MINOR DEVELOPMENT
ALLEYS & COMMERCIAL SCAPE ·
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ASPEN HISTORIC PRESEHVi%TION COMMITTEE
Minutes of Februar~ Z3, 1994
Meeting was called to order by Joe Krabacher with Les Holst, Roger
Moyer, Karen Day, Scott Samborski, Tom Williams, Martha Madsen and
Linda Smisek present. Excused were Donnelley Erdman and Jake
Vickery.
MOTION~ Roger made the motion to approve the minutes of January
26, 1994; second by Karen. All in favor, motion carries.
COMMISSIONER COMMENTS
Roger: I had a call from a woman in Rifle with regards to
restoring a building as Rifle has no preservation committee. They
may come to one of our meetings.
The Board welcomes our two new members Tom Williams and Scott
Samborski.
Karen: I would suggest using the Angler Room at the Hotel Jerome
for the awards ceremony. It is a very warm room rather than the
larger one we used last year.
Amy: We need to reassign Bill Poss's projects.
Karen: I'll do Saint Mary's church windows.
Les: I'll do the elevator for Pitkin County Court house.
107 JUP~N STREET - RELOCATIONt PUBLIC HEARING
Joe Krabacher opened the public hearing.
Amy: The applicant is coming back for final approval for the
relocation of the historic structure towards the west and I have
found that it has met all of the relocation standards and recommend
that the HPC approve the application with the conditions that they
submit a structural report from a licensed engineer, that a
relocation plan be submitted and that they limit the width of the
underground garage to one lane and that they not construct a front
porch on the historic resource. I brought up the issue of the
porch before and since then I have found that it was never on the
building and from a pure preservation standpoint you don't want to
introduce elements that were never there historically.
Dave Tollin: Housing Authority office representative: The site was
purchased by the city of Aspen and the housing office a few years
ago for affordable permanent resident housing. We are working with
a design development team. The proposal is for six units, five
new and the existing miners cottage which will be relocated
Historic Preservation Committee
Minutes of February 23, 1994
slightly on the site. The two units in the back each are duplexes
with a total of four units and will house basically families. They
have small but useful yard spaces incorporated within them. In the
front will be the single family home. This unit will be
rehabilitated and become a two bedroom unit. There will also be
common yard space. The parking associated with the project is two
spaces per unit in an underground parking structure under the site.
We are hoping to price the units as low as $130,000 to $150,000
each. In the last worksession we had talked about the concept of
reducing the parking impact entrance. There is a problem with
safety and we would not be able to narrow the entrance due to
engineering concerns. We can alter the front elements which will
soften it. The second issue is the porch on the corner unit. It
serves two functions: protects the front entry from ice, snow and
rain. The second thing it does is provide a connection between
the unit and the street. There are small cottages throughout town
with porches like this. From a pure preservation review this had
not had a porch but I feel we can design it in such a way that it
enhances rather than detracts. The other issue from the site visit
is the proposed height. The existing is four feet lower than what
we are showing on the elevation. We were asked to leave the
building at the present elevation. The reason for the elevation
is the position of the transition behind it. To have the building
at a lower elevation creates a deep canyon or well in relationship
to the retaining wall making the yard space less usable.
What is the height of the retaining wall?
six feet at the front level and also six feet at the back
Roger:
David:
level.
David: I also believe the front porch is within the ten foot
setback and that was addressed in the application.
David: I would like the HPC to consider a setback variance to give
us the opportunity to move the unit forward. We need to look at
technical issues.
Roger: Can the front porch be added so that it is not as prominent
addition to the historic cottage and that it look like an addition
rather than part of the addition.
Karen: I had a question concerning the stairs as we had to have
ours redone because they were so dangerous.
David: We have a cost estimate currently for concrete stairs
throughout the site.
Les: Regarding the entrance I have seen several complexes in
Historlo Preservation Committee
M~nutes o~ Februa~ 23, ~994
Denver, Park city that have single entrances to underground
parking. We can get information on them.
David: The standards are loosely defined but 18 feet for a two car
access is probably the minimum you would want to go.
Roger: You don't need a two car access, have a one car access and
then that standard is met.
David: You could do that but in terms of safety for a structure
of this size that is what they recommend.
Roger: The building I stay at in Georgetown is new and has 25
parking spaces, single car garage door and when you pull up there
is a light that comes on and it is green and you go through. If
cars are coming out it turns red and you wait until they come
through. It is real simple.
David: The city engineer told us you can only do it under this
circumstance.
Les: Very interesting, that is one of the reasons we loose these
great spaces. The building code has exceptions for historic
buildings so that we don't have to meet the standard codes. We
could have a worksession and explain the situation that it will
work.
Joe: Get a subcommittee and meet with the Engineering Dept.
David: We are not asked to meet a function standard we are asked
to meet an Engineering standard.
Roger: Concerning the corner to the left of the parking garage
possibly have a landscape person study the area to soften it up.
David: At this point we have not had any detailed work done on
that area.
COMMITTEE MEMBER COMMENTS
Tom: I feel the opening
clearance were lowered.
would be less of an impact if the
David: The ramp will slope down over a foot so it will drop down
a little. We are also facing the entire area with stone.
Les: I feel the porch is necessary with that roof on the cottage.
If there is a way of dropping down the corner unit that would be
appropriate. Regarding the opening we need to make sure a van with
Historlo Preservation Committee
Minutes of February 23, 1994
a ski rack will fit.
Karen:
Roger: In the motion we
door opening.
David: P&Z and Council
issues.
I also agree with Les's comments.
should state that they look at a single
has the ability to look at these two
Amy: I can discuss the opening with the city Engineer.
Joe: I would also like to see the parking garage door opening
lowered or restudied. I am willing to recommend the front yard
setback variance but it might be a planning issue in exchange in
bringing the height of the building down. It seems there is no
objection to the porch. The stairs into the historic cottage I
would personally see those done in wood rather than concrete. I
also agree with Roger that landscaping needs looked at on the
corner of the parking area.
Chairman Joe Krabacher closed the public hearing.
MOTION: Roger made the motion that HPC recommend approval of the
relocation of 107 Juan Street with the following conditions:
1) Before applying for a building permit, the applicant will
submit a structural report from a licensed engineer, demonstrating
the soundness of the structure and describing any structural
bracing that will be necessary during the relocation.
2) Before applying for a building permit, the applicant will
provide a relocation plan which shows how the receiving site will
be prepared and will secure a bond (value to be set by HPC) to
insure safe relocation of the building.
3) The applicant should limit the width of the underground garage
opening to one lane, if this is found to meet safety standards.
4) Condition four would be to study the lowering of the height of
the historic building and deal with the setbacks as need be.
5) Study the softening of the north east corner landscaping;
second by Les. All in favor, motion carries.
Historio Preservation Comm%ttee
Minutes of February 23, 1994
DISCUSSION
Tom: In regards to the opening a regular overhead door is 6x8.
Joe: Maybe we should amend the motion that the applicant should
limit the width and height of the underground garage to one lane
and the appropriate height regarding safety standards. It may stay
the way it is presented.
Les: A ski rack and windsurfer should fit. I try and watch people
at the Little Nell and they cannot get in due to the height
problems.
MENDED MOTION= Roger amended the motion to limit the width and
height of the underground garage to one lane and the appropriate
height regarding safety standards; second by Les. Ail in favor,
motion carries.
HOLDEN-M~ROLT MUSEUM - MINOR DEVELOPMENT
Amy: The master plan was reviewed several years ago and the
applicants have found that they cannot locate the bathrooms inside
the barn and they are proposing to do it on the exterior. They
propose setting them under an existing lean-too on the south side
of the barn. I recommend approval but they can limit the overall
size of the bathroom.
Graeme Means, architect: Amy talked to me concerning the
recommendation of having the bathrooms detached from the main
structure. Our PUD approval states specifically that there be no
new construction on the property and one of the main reasons is
that this was city purchased for open space. Secondly we talked
about this and there is very little visual impact and will work
better than putting a new structure on the grounds. We do not like
the idea of introducing a new element into this plan. Originally
we received approval from the building department to put our
bathrooms inside the building but the museum consultant that we are
working with stated there would be a circulation problem etc. and
suggested the bathroom to be outside of the building. They also
felt that the building was small and any exhibit space is precious.
It would also alter the character inside. We then looked at the
alternative of where to put them either in a new structure or in
the salt shed. The salt shed is an original historic building that
we are going to turn into a shop to restore old equipment and
display materials and this would be part of the museum for people
to watch and see how things are done. Introducing the bathrooms
in the salt shed would take away valuable space so we decided to
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Historic Preservation Committee
~inutes of FebruaL-~ 23, 1994
propose that they be put underneath the overhang. It is a more
recent addition but is historic. The front wall of the bathrooms
is ten feet back from the eave of the overhang so they are really
set well back in. We also could display materials in front of them
to screen them. The overhang will be used to display materials.
Our original approval was for two toilet facilities one for
handicapped and one not. We were allowed to do that by the
building department based upon the fact that this is a very crowded
area. When we moved the bathrooms to the outside we felt that
there would be room for the two handicapped and two regular. Amy
is suggesting that we go back to the original proposal so that we
can take about three feet off the width of the bathroom. Now that
we have a little more room I am not sure that the building
department will not require the four stalls.
Amy: I spoke to the building department and they will allow just
the handicapped bathroom and the one regular.
Graeme: We would like to provide two handicapped bathrooms as it
services everyone better and the one regular. We also feel they
are located far under the overhang. The other issue is the work
sinks. They are for a number of projects, food done outside to
help feed different groups of people. We feel that the work sinks
being out in the open would be a lot more accessible. We intend
to get old historic work sinks or else put in something that looks
like a rancher put it in. We would be happy to work with a monitor
to get their approval. The configuration that it is in now has
less impact visually and would work a lot better for us.
Roger: There are two buildings, the barn and the salt shed. Do
you have a long range plan for that building.
Graeme: Short range and we are going to do the construction this
spring and turn it into a work shop/ display year round.
Roger: Are the bathrooms meant to be year round?
Graeme: No they are not and will only be open in the summer.
Roger: If you have a year round workshop you won't have a
bathroom.
Graeme: We have one small bathroom located in the salt shed.
Roger: Is there enough room in the salt shed for the bathrooms?
Graeme: No, it would take up too much of a chunk of space.
Joe: Is it possible to get by with one sink rather than two?
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Historic Preservation Committee
Minutes of February 23, 1994
Graeme:
Martha:
Graeme:
urinal.
Graeme: Yes, I think so.
COMMITTEE MEMBER COMMENTS
Linda: For the outside view into this could their be a partition
along the sink so that they are not showing to the outside?
We could consider that.
What is the configuration of the bathrooms?
They are a little unequal as we are required to put in a
Les: I an live with an old tub outside
smaller bathroom. It is such a wonderful
have no problem with unisex bathrooms.
and would approve the
looking building and I
Scott: I would approve the smaller bathrooms also for the same
reasons that Les has and also the one sink.
Martha: Will there be a maintenance problem with that sink since
it will be in the open and exposed?
Graeme: It is way underneath the overhang so it is protected.
Roger: I would suggest on the size of the bathroom that you not
exceed three to four inches from the trim of the window and that
may give you a little more room. You won't have a true sink, it
will be more of a horse troft that could be divided into two parts.
Karen:
Graeme:
shed.
Karen:
Where will your cleaning compounds be kept?
We will store a lot of the mops and stuff in the salt
I am in favor of having it attached from the wall.
Tom: Would it be possible to make the bathrooms flush?
Graeme: I could do either but I would prefer to have it broken up.
Amy: What kind of signs will be on the door to show the unisex
bathroom?
Graema: I don't know exactly what that will be.
Amy: A fiberglass blue handicapped sign would not be appropriate.
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Historic Preservation Conittee
l~inutes of Februa~ 23, 1994
Graeme: We will try to be as sensitive as we can.
Joe: I would agree with Roger about bringing the bathroom back so
that it is a few inches away from the trim of the window and the
sink should be something old in a ranch style and should not be
shielded. Any signage I would like to see it similar to the
materials that are existing.
Les: What is the framing of this going to be?
Graeme: Two by four.
MO?IOH: Roger made the motion to approve the Holden-Marolt Museum
bathroom with the following condition: That the bathroom dimension
be reduced so as to not cover the bathroom windows. Details and
dimensions to be worked out with Staff and monitor; second by
Martha.
Discussion:
.~ ..... Amy: The new construction should not attach to the historic
building.
MENDED HOTION~ Roger added that the new addition not permanently
attach to the existing historic structure; second by Martha. All
in favor, motion carries.
DISCUSSION
Graeme: Would the roof of the overhang apply to that statement.
Amy: You have the post going down into the ground to give it
stability.
Graeme: We need to put a ceiling on the bathrooms. We could put
it one inch away from the old.
Amy: It is historic and that is what I am recommending. I don't
feel it less important than the barn.
Graeme: We love this building and we can work with that.
Les: Roger and I are the monitors.
130 S. GALENA ( CITY ~ALL) - MINOR DEV~LOPME~F~
Amy: We looked at this in a worksession at the last meeting and
because of office space construction a second egress will be
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Historic Preserv&t~on Committee
Minutes of Februar~ 2S, 1994
req]/ired and the applicant has presented to me that it is not
possible to do that on the interior of the building so they are
proposing to construct a staircase on the east side of the building
and I have recommended that we table the application asking the
applicant to reduce the size of the staircase and the lightwells
and that we will need to samples of building materials.
Cris, Engineering Department: Raul Gawry will be the architect on
this project. We originally had a large scale entry setup
partially requested by council. Since then we have scaled back a
portion of that to try and make less of an impact to the historic
structure itself.
Raul Gawry, architect for Gibson & Reno: We are looking for
direction from the HPC on how the park should be utilized. We need
egress on opposite sides in the basement and that is a building
code due to the size of the occupancy. We will have an internal
staircase buy the present information station. We wanted to
achieve another internal staircase but due to structural problems
it would not become feasible to connect it. We could do the
minimal four foot light stairwell at the back of the building but
I do not feel that is what we want. One plan would be a physical
doorway parallel to the building that would be integrated with a
planter box. We need to discuss the railing also.
QUESTIONS:
Karen: What is the history of the park?
RaUl: We have saved every tree and the bench would have to be
moved. Nothing has ever been in the park.
Karen: If that is the case the park would be historical and that
would give us a reason historically why we should be able to open
up the stairway.
Roger: Why can't the city council stay where it is?
Raul: They can.
Cris: Having the council chambers moved will be more space and it
will be laid out with a lot of light. Either way we will need
egress out of the basement and have to put a stairway in out of the
basement. The north east corner has numerous complications due to
pointing, the rise and run of the design and snow. There is also
a clearance problem. We are trying to comply with the master plan.
Council is in agreement having the council chambers downstairs.
Joe: You are proposing colored concrete for the retaining walls.
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Historic Preservation Co~$ttee
Minutes of February 23, 1994
Raul: We will need to put steel columns underneath five feet on
center and double hung windows at a later date. Our goal is to
get a lot of light.
Joe: If we go with an entrance I need to see the detailing of what
is happening.
Raul: The light well will extend four feet from the building.
Les: I would like the minimum stairway going down in there.
Raul: You want to make it as simple as possible.
Karen: I totally disagree with Les and we have encouraged people
to terrace light wells that go into houses so that it enhances the
quality of life of someone living in a basement. It is below
grade.
Tom: I would like to see more of a celebration of a hole.
Martha: We have come full circle on this and we started feeling
very firm about not altering the historic building. I personally
like the idea of incorporating the park with the addition. I do
not think we want to go too far with that concept.
Roger: The real issue is that we have a landmark building and our
job is to not mess with the building period. If the Board feels
that is not our job then we have a lot to discuss. The entire
situation of this building doesn't make sense. The public voted
it down because they wouldn't allow the monies to renovate the
entire building at one time. The point is that it is costing the
taxpayers five times as much and it is totally absurd. I totally
concur with Les and I cannot approve the addition to a landmark.
I also feel the city did not plan this out when they took it to
the vote.
Scott: I agree with Roger and if this is to be approved it should
be minimal.
Roger: You can add onto and that is allowed.
Tom: You have to have egress and I feel this should be landscaped
and should be much bigger than it is.
Les: In seven years I have not seen that park used. There are
patterns here that we are trying to break and it isn't going to
happen.
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Historic Preservation corm%tree
Minutes of February 23, 1994
Raul: The relationship to the exiting park and the council
chambers is very uninviting as you basically have a solid wall and
no perception of visual contact between the two. If you introduce
a visual contact it will be better conditions than you have now.
Joe: Typically when a project goes through HPC we get a consensus
and it doesn't seem like we have one on this project today. My
view of it is that the property is on the national register which
is the highest level of an historic structure that you can have.
There are a lot of Aspen landmarks that could never make it on the
national register. I feel we should preserve the building as it
is (an historic structure). If you put this on the back side of
the building east L it will change the character of the building
especially in the way you have the stair coming down at an angle.
It seems like a large feature that you are introducing into the
building. I would prefer to utilize the existing exit that we have
available and rethink the program in terms as to whether you want
to put the council chambers downstairs. I would rather see them
on the first floor but that is personal. If it were used for
offices you wouldn't need a grand entrance. As for the lightwell
in the sister city room I would encourage keeping the opening as
small as possible. If the committee decides to go with an entrance
on the back I would like to see the materials that are proposed.
We have a master plan that plans out the next seven or eight years
as to what we are going to do for improvements to this building to
get it back in shape. There are structural improvements and a
new roof. As far as where the window wells go I would not want to
work in the basement without light. I am trying to get as much
light as I can. Our design hinges on the HPC and I would
encourage everyone to think this out and get the best design
possible.
Amy: I don't have a problem with a stairway going into the back
of this building. This building has to be used. I heard comments
about people having lunch on the steps. Those steps will be wide
open and I wouldn't want to eat on the steps. This is a minimal
stairway.
Roger: Could an annex be proposed for the park area?
Amy: That was proposed several years ago and never got approved
due to neighboring property owners.
Les: Light wells are good.
Joe: The Board feels light wells are appropriate. As for the exit
entryway this proposal or something that is minimal as possible
would be appropriate, how does the Board feel about that. (no
comments except Martha who favored the east)
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Historic Preservation committee
Minutes of February 23, 1994
Cris: Without clear direction this is costing us time and money.
Roger: You have a five year plan and I would suggest that the City
look at the long term of where the city is going.
Cris: Hopefully the grant that Amy has applied for will help us
along. The 250 thousand is for the basement and the 100,000 is for
the roof.
Cris: I guess we can come up with another plan or a few. If the
Board says do a window well and a small stairway I can go with
that. If I have some direction I can come back with further plans.
Cris: Would a window well be acceptable on the outside of the
building on the park side (EL) , as big as the proposal?
Les: My answer is no and I would not like to see one long window
well. Broken up is better.
Joe: I would rather see them broken up with some historic content.
We don't want to see competition between where is the front and
where is the back entrance. Smaller lighwells and egress and the
exit out to the parking.
Roger: My preference is stairway inside if all possible and
minimal on the outside.
Cris: We can come back March 9th with a revision.
MOTION: Roger made the motion to table 130 S. Galena to the March
9, 1994 meeting; second by Martha. All in favor, motion carries.
ALLEYS & COMMERCIAL SCAPE
Amy: We are looking at ways to enhance the commercial and
residential alley scape. I met with the engineering department
and they see numerous encroachments such as trash, utilities lines
and things piled up in the alleys that make it difficult to
navigate. From our point of view they could be improved and I have
taken photographs. We might want to consider in the future design
projects that include alcove buildings. Planet Hollywood has
filled the alley with garbage. I need to know what your vision is
in what you would want the alleys to look like.
Les: I have mentioned alley cafe's where you walk up a few steps.
Amy: The Sardy House has a little bridge which is also an
encroachment into the air space and it would have to be up high
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H~stor~c Preservation Comm~t2ee
~nutes o£ Fe~ruar~ 23~ 2994
enough so that a truck could get underneath.
Scott: I was on the Commercial Core & Lodging Commission and at
one point we addressed the alleys because they were loaded with
trash enclosures, delivery problems. All the businesses and truck
owners came to the meeting and I can talk with Jon Busch as to what
was resolved.
Roger: Most buildings have basements and why couldn't you come out
into the alley and you could have a steel door and raise the trash
up.
Amy: Aspen Drug has the same design for their deliveries but the
trash could be incorporated.
Amy: The CCLC has talked about a central large compactor for each
area but the mechanical equipment would be very large and it does
not resolve recycling.
Scott: There are other problems that need to be resolved before
doing the infill of the alleys.
Roger: A lot of the huge walls could be painted and you could walk
down the alley that would create a great visual impact.
Les: In New York they have restorations that have high visibility
in the front and toward the back it is cheaper.
Amy: The City is considering revising the entire quota system and
as one of our incentives for preservation we have a lot of ways
that landmarked buildings can get exemptions. Next week they are
going to discuss historic landmarks as to what can and can not be
exempted. I need a few members to come to that meeting.
Les volunteered.
MOTION: Roger made the motion to adjourn; second by Les. Ail in
favor, motion carries.
Meeting adjourned at 7:30 p.m.
Kathleen J. Strickland, Chief Deputy Clerk
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