HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.hpc.19930908H~stor~c Preservation Co~ittee
Xinutes oE September 8, 2993
702 W. MAIN - CONCEPTUAL DEVELOPMENT - CONT'D PH
312 S. GALENA - MINOR DEVELOPMENT - PLANET
HOLLYWOOD
835 W. MAIN - LANDMARK DESIGNATION - PUBLIC HEARING
DISCUSSION 107 JUAN STREET AUSTIN PROPERTY.
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HZSTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE
Minutes of September 8, 1993
Meeting was called to order by chairman Bill Poss with Joe
Krabacher, Donnelley Erdman, Les Holst, Jake Vickery, Roger Moyer,
Karen Day, Martha Madsen and Linda Smisek present.
MOTION~ Les made the motion to approve the minutes of July 28,
1993, second by Roger. All in favor, motion carries.
COMMITTEE ~ ST~FF COMMENTS
Amy: Please site visit 334 W. Hallam as they are coming in for a
worksesison.
Les: Numerous contractors are not aware of the materials we have
for repairing old wood, so if anyone talks to somebody please give
them the materials.
PUBLIC COMMENT
Michael Hull, owner of Poppies Biestro, 834 W. Hallam: We are
looking at putting an employee housing unit on the back of the
restaurant. The model shows the proposed addition.
Jake: I am doing the architectural work on this building and we
will be coming in on the Sept. 22 nd. agenda.
Mike: It is 950 square feet to qualify as a three or four category
housing unit.
Karen: Is it one unit?
Mike: One unit two bedroom.
Don: This is an added-on second story addition to the rear.
Roger: The back roof is 2 1/2 feet higher than the front.
Mike: There is a lot of landscaping and I would like to know how
you feel about that amount of volume.
Roger: Maybe the roof height should be lower on the east/west
gable.
Les: Our guidelines state that any addition should not take
dominance over the historic building and should not detract from
it. I am concerned about additional height over the historic
building as it may take dominance over the historic building which
is our primary concern. The design is ok but it is too large in
the back.
Don: There are atlernatives with the north cross gable and it
could be chanfered back and have a partial flat roof on top. The
Historic Preservation Committee
Minutes of September 8, 1993
pitch of the roof that is parallel with the house, that gable if
you change the pitch too much it may call your attention to it
which we don't want. Better to leave it the same pitch.
Bill: I have a comment to the differences in height. You can
balance the prominance of one part of a structure to another by
using materials or fenestration of the windows.
PUBLIC COMMENT
Wayne Stryker: The old Glidden house above the post office, the
owners desire to have something less expensive than the design
approved. The last approach had a carriage house on the back of
the house echoing the existing historic structure. Would you
consider reducing this to a more flat roof blending in with the
existing contemporary addition rather than echoing the mansard.
Is that something too .drastic?
Don: It is more than an insignificant change and you may have to
go through the process again.
Roger: Would it be a one story continuation of the garage?
Wayne: Yes, but we would desire to have the roof a couple feet
higher than the garage only to get south light into that space.
Amy: Probably one of the things the committee liked about this
addition is that it reflected the original house and they would be
sorry to see that go,
Karen: My feeling would be if it
garage and somehow related to the
house it would tie it together.
could be kept higher than the
large window on the original
Amy: Our design guidelines state that flat roofs are not
appropriate and you should review those guidelines.
Roger: PosSibly you could work it out with the monitor and submit
drawings.
702 W. M~IN - CONCEPTUAL DEVELOPMENT - CONTWD PH
Chairman Bill Poss opened the public hearing.
Joe Krabacher stepped down.
Amy: This is a proposal for a new office building in the Main
Street historic district and also involves the demolition of a
building that has been determined non-contributing to the district.
The applicant has submitted a third rendition of the proposal here
Historic Preservation Committee
Minutes of September 8, 1993
tonight.
Dick Fallin, architect: We tried to increase the south sun on the
Krabacher side. We changed the drawings on the windows to double
hung with one vertical mullion. We took the column off the back.
On the rear on the north elevation shows what the dormers are
doing. Along the west elevation we have modified the window
arrangement. We were trying to protect the privacy. Materials
will stay the same and we have eliminated the metal roofing.
CLARIFICATIONS:
Karen: What is the position of the mullions?
Dick Fallin: Two fifths from the top on the east and south.
On the west elevation we tried to have the mullion horizontal.
Don: Are the cross gables blind?
Dick: Yes. On the porch you will see a little relief on the small
gables.
Linda: Is the dormer on the east elevation missing?
Dick: It is there but missing on the model.
Bill: Are the dormers on the rear for headroom or decorative and
do you want those as the architect.
Karen: We talked about increasing the setback to the west, does
this model reflect that setback?
Dick: It does not but I do think there is 15 feet between the
buildings.
Amy: Where is the front door?
Joe Krabacher, adjacent neighbor: I would reiterate the comment
that I made at the worksesison. I think the concern is the height
ahd massing and the committee should understand that they are
setting a precedent for this block because on the cbrner you have
the Christian Science building, apartment building and I am
realistically considering what I am doing with my property.
Karen: How do you feel about the setback between your building?
Joe: It is what is allowed and is the minimum setback. If I was
going to live there as a residence I would want more of a setback,
but frankly at this point I am probably not going to live there.
H~storlc Preserv&t~on Co~mi22ee
M~nutes of September 8~ L99~
Chairman Bill Poss closed the public hearing.
COMMISSIONER COMMENTS
Karen: I feel there is room on the corner to move the larger
building over and would hope that it would not effect your growth
management application.
Don: Dealing with the blind dormers I could see removing them
since they do not let light in. I also agree that we should persue
that the setbacks be reversed which would give Joe Krabacher's lot
18 more inches of incrased yard space between the two structures.
Martha: I like the window changes to a certain extent but wasn't
opposed to the first design except for the number of windows. I
am uncomfortable with the mass. I would be in favor of moving the
setback if that would give relief to the landmark. I feel the
landmark is in critical danger of this project. I am not
comfortable as a result of that.
Les: My feeling is that the massing on the front is inappropriate
for the neighborhood and sets a dagnerous precedent and I wish
there could have been a way that it was structured further back or
staggered. It is inappropriate having this kind of massing on the
sidewalk. It is not compatible with the historic block.
Jake: I will not vote on this project as it has been pointed out
to me that I cannot sit on two boards and so until I figure that
out I will not vote. At the worksession the issue that Joe raised
was brought up which was what we are doing here is setting up a
precedent for these basically two blocks. There are several well
preserved little buildings in those two blocks and we are
determining here the fate of those two blocks. On the one hand
someone decided this should be office zone which puts pressure on
these lots. I don't know if they decided Main Street would be
noisy or what. That is adapative reuse. I do not know if their
intention was to sacrifice these blocks for growth so that other
areas in town could be left more preserved. I do not know what
their thinking was when they decided to do this. In a situation
when they maximumize the parcel they really do have to go to a
higher level of design because they are in an historical overlay
zone. It is a more demanding zone than office zone. You either
take a stand and defend the little houses or you don't. If you
take a stand on the little.house then this proposed design does not
work, it is an over load. My only concern which was raised before
is relative to the rear portion and it should be secondary and
simple. I still would like to see something more playful.
Something else should be done to the windows.
H~storlc Preservation Committee
Roger: I would be in favor of changing the setback and if the
dormers on the back are not going to be used for light to enhance
the interior space then they should be taken off. Also when you
come in again we would like to see a strong landscaping plan. The
windows on the south and east need restudied.
Bill: I feel the project has responded to comments from the
worksession. The committee likes to hear from the architects and
if you do not like the dormers we would like to hear that. I feel
those dormers add business to them. I also feel the guidelines
should be changed if we want to change Main Street and I do not
feel we can expect an applicant to bear the grunt of our
committee's indecision on the guidelines.
Amy: It is not identified as a contribution structure in the
district and you need to determine according to the code certain
findings that have to be made including that demolition is
necessary to the redevelopment and it meets the condition that it
is not identified on the inventory.
MOTION: Don made the motion that the HPC grant conceptual
development to the proposed office building at 702 W. Main St. with
the following conditions:
1) That the blind dormers on the northern portion of the building
be either restud~ or removed to simplify the architectural
scheme.
2) As an additional ~ecommendation we recommend to the Board of
Adjustment that demolition of the non contribution structure
on the side be allowed to fasciliate redevelopment of the
site. Also that the Board of Adjustment grant a reversing of
the side yard setbacks that the easterly side yard be reduced
five feet and the west side yard increased 6.66 feet.
The variance be granted for the use in the office zone is
appropriate.
Variance for the reversal of the side yard setback is appropriate.
Second by Roger.
Don amended the mo~ion to restudy of the
rather than east; second amended by Roger.
Don amended the motion to add findings:
entrance facing south
Findings:
Historic Preservation committee
Minutes of September 8, 1993
1. That the structure is not identified in the inventory of
historic sites and structures.
2. structure is no contributing to the historic district.
3. Structure does not contribute to the overall character of the
historic district and its demolition does not impact the
character of the historic district and demolition is necessary
for the redevelopment of the parcel which I already mentioned
before.
4 Proposed redevelopment is included in this application by
HPC.
Motion second by Roger. Ail in favor, motion carries 6-0.
312 S. GALENA - MINOR DEVELOPMENT - PLANET HOLLYWOOD
Joe seated.
Amy: The applicants is requesting approval for exterior elements
windows, doors, signs lighting and awning. There is not a
significant impact on the exterior of the building.
Rod Dyer, architect: The changes are to the front entry and the
front display windows. Addition of awnings and blocking out of
existing windows on the north wall which is the alley and one
window on the east wall. The addition of lighting also. The
existing storefront was built in 1978 and 1979. In 1978 I
presented a photo when it was the Eagles Club. The storefront
display windows are not historic elements. Changing the door will
work better for the client. We want to change the entryway doors
and the transom above the doors with aluminum glass storefront.
This would be strictly infill and no change to the actual
structure. Also we want to change the single pane store front
window to two fixed glass insulating tempered units. We won't need
them for ventilation because we are adding a considerable amount
of lighting and airconditioning. We wish to install three awnings.
The stripes on the awning would be 12 inches wide. There are
approximately the same number of windows already bricked over on
the building. We would like the bricked windows flush and will
match the existing color. We also want to move one entry door at
the east end of the north facade which is presently an service
entry door. We plan to repaint the building the same colors. We
wish to replace some of the roof top mechanical equipment because
what is there is not adequate. The structure of the elevator will
not come above the existing roof line. The applicant wishes to do
logo signs painted on wood, one on the alley facade close to the
streetscale and one above the transome at the entry way. We wish
to light them from the front not behind.
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Historic Preservation Committee
H~nu2es of 8ep2ember 8, ~993
CLARIFICATIONS
Les: Is the mechanical on the roof to scale?
Rod: Yes.
Les: Is there any reason you could not use wood jams in the front?
Rod: From a maintenance point we do not want to use wood.
Don: Explain the lighting of the signs.
Rod: Underneath the awning we would have a small
off the alley side also.
spot light and
Don: On the drawings the lighting is mislabeled.
Roger: You are recommending the windows be stored,
where?
Rod: There is
windows there.
alley side.
Jake:
on site or
a large attic site and we can store the historic
We would only be removing the four windows on the
Is there any options for leaving them in place.
Rod: Not to get insulation.
Jake: Why are you sealing them up?
Rod: For usage of the interior space.
John McCann: We have a substantial lighting package inside.
Rod: We have a back bar also and the windows are set to the
inside.
John McCann: Half of the original windows are already bricked.
Roger: Since the windows are in the alley do they in fact have to
be taken out and are there other alternatives. There is another
window that was put in in the 70's. Maybe one of the historic
windows could be placed in the newer windows spot. Do you feel a
pink and green awning is conducive to the character of Aspen.
Rod: I do not feel it detracts and the building next door has a
two tone awning and there are other two tone awnings in Aspen.
These particular colors are part of their trade mark.
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Historic Preservation Commi2tee
Hinutes of September 8~ ~993
Roger: With weather considerations do you intend to paint the
building this fall?
Rod: We decided not to change the colors so that we could paint
it this winter.
Roger: You are dealing with a very important landmark, do you
intend to use paint or a protective coating?
Rod: That I cannot answer.
John McCann: Epoxy paint.
Roger: That is totally inappropriate. We are not so concerned
with the color but with the protection of the existing structure.
The material on the existing building is paint. We would ask that
any problems in the masonry be repaired and there are very specific
guidelines to that. Once that is done it can be coated. Standard
paints we would object to. We would ask that a protective coating
be done which would last for seven years. This also protects your
investment.
John McCann: We would not have a specific preference over the type
of paint. The contractor would be happy not to use epoxy paint.
Newstrom-Davis will be the general contractor on the interior. I
understand that he is familiar with the requirements of working in
the city.
Roger: You basically have two weeks of adequate weather and
anything after that is not advised. All exterior work should be
put off until spring as it is a too of an important building.
Bill: The applicant should contact Staff regarding the morter and
brick work.
John McCann: The awning colors are our trademark colors.
Karen: What other historic buildings in town have changed out to
aluminum windows and doors?
Jake: Esprit but some of the others have cast iron with wood
framed infill.
Mary: I was on the Board when Esprit was approved and we wanted
wooden framing and they stated they wouldn't come if they couldn't
have metal. They also wanted the windows way to the ground.
Roger: Whereas the Independence Building windows were kept and
reconstituted. But this building does not have original windows
H~stor~c Preserva2~on Committee
~inu2es of September 8, ~993
on the front except up high.
Karen: Once the windows are out or bricked up do future tenants
ever go back to the original or is it too expensive?
Bill: On the hardware store some of them were replaced and also
on the Lily Reid building. You want the windows to remain as a
product of time.
Karen: The dining space will be gone.
Jake: I feel there are options regarding the windows if the Board
feels they should be saved. Would this building qualify on the
national register?
Amy: Possibly under architectural significance.
Karen: Are their details as to what the front door will look like?
Rod: Standard aluminum store front door, close to the drawing.
COMMITEE MEMBER COMMENTS
Les: You are sticking to the basic historic building. On the roof
historically all changed need to remain to scale and check with the
monitor. I do not think the trade mark awning is appropriate in
the historic district. I also do not feel the aluminum is
appropriate even though it is easier to do. This is a wonderful
building and there is a lot of wood up above. The wood is more
appropriate. I would like to see the windows stay in the alley and
frame and drywall behind them so you will not loose your interior
space. If windows are stored etc. they seem to wonder.
Linda: As an historic building I see the bottom half this new
modern element not in keeping with the historic building. I do not
feel the metal is appropriate and would rather see wood. The
windows and door are not in keeping with the the historic feeling,
too big and too modern. The awning is a harsh treatment to the
facade.
Karen: I would like to ask if a restudy of the windows is done
that you maintain the bifold existing of the window that exists.
Opened to the street is a very friendly atmosphere. The details
as they are presented right now do not meet all four of our
guidelines which they are required to do. I would recommend
tabling for a restudy.
Donnelley: Ail four development review standards need to be met.
We cannot repeat errors in the past and if the windows have to be
Historic Preservation Committee
Hinutes of September 8, ~993
closed I would recommend leaving them in place and insulating in
behind them. We do not need to follow the precedent of the past
on this building. Aspen is in a continual state of change. The
awning is not appropriate and I would not accept any two tone
awning when you place a third color on for the sign. Steel or wood
for the door and storefront is appropriate.
Roger: I would ask that any roof systems be scaled down in height
if ppossible. The stripe awning are totally unacceptable,
although the color scheme is not. Regarding the store front
windows aluminum is out. In 1978 the windows were redone and fixed
and then taken out. In regards to the windows in the alleys I feel
they should stay. Possibly you could do something on the interior
to show they indeed were windows. I would ask that a condition be
made that materials etc. be seriously looked at by Staff. Also no
outside work done after September.
Jake: I would like to see research done on this building as to
what it used to look like. If we can move the architecture in the
direction of restoration I might be willing to give up a few
issues.
Amy: Regarding Jake's statement concerning the Secretary of
Interior's standards we might put a condition that any exterior
work should be reversible.
Joe: I concur and this is a large vertical building and with the
large windows on the first floor and large opening you have made
the first floor squattie and it is not consistent with the historic
building. Possibly a center mullion to give it a veartical feel.
Aluminum is not consistent with the historic structure. Also I am
not sure if all the roof top materials are shown on the plan. We
have had numerous problems in the past with roof top equipment.
Windows on the north should be preserved and am against replacing
those with bricked in. If they go they will never be replaced.
On the display window it is an existing window and I am not sure
of that solution.
Roger: If this was tabled does it prevent you from doing work
inside?
Rod: To some extent. The existing windows are sigle pane double
hung wood framed windows. They are not in good shape or weather
proofed.
Bill: I concur with the statements and feel this is a good
landmark structure. This is an opportunity to restore this
building. I might be able to forgo the awnings if the storefront
is restored with wood and single pane glass on the Galena Street
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Historic Preservation Committee
Minutes of September 8, X993
facade. The windows on the alley or north facade I would like to
see them retained and work with monitor and Staff. It would be the
owners obligation to store the windows not the tenant. Also
windows should be photographed and put in files.
Rod: The text book storefront has a recessed center flaged by
large display windows and kick plates. I have seen pictures of
this building and it originally had a central entrance and stoop
that sticks out into the sidewalk area. I have been told by
Engineering that that is not acceptable to them. My thought is
that the large windows do meet the guidelines, not necessarily the
aluminum frame but the size of them. As far as retaining the
windows on the alley I feel it is possible to do it. The tenant
will have to relay to me whether they are willing to go to the
additional expense of retaining those windows. In their present
location it would be inpossible but they might be able to move them
to the outside. We also have to provide for this building an
elevator.
Roger: If the owner asked for national historic designation, there
are a lot of incentives for that. Suppose they restore the
building as close as possible to the central entrance and that
entrance is recessed which is what was done in that erra, would
that not work?
Rod: Not interior wise.
John McCann: I would have to check on the lease regarding putting
the building back to its original state. I do not anticipate a
problem with the roof top mechanicals. The alley is narrow and you
cannot see anything. We can address the windows but half of them
have been bricked up. Leaving some of the windows to me is not
attractive and would encourage the Board to look at that. I am
willing to store the windows. We are proposing an aluminum clad
dark bronze and possibly we could change the degree of color. When
you clad in copper or bronze it is a softer look. We have music
inside the restaurant.
Bill: I feel the committee meant that the larger glass is fine,
but it is how you trim out the window. Wood detailing would be
more sympathetic.
John McCann: Painting the building to me is maintenance and could
that not be done now so we can get it protected while the rest of
this si being sorted out and allowing our interior removation to
proceed?
Bill: As long as the proper materials and pointing and done
correctly.
Historic Preservation Committee
Hinutes of September 8, ~993
MOTION: Les made the motion that the minor development for 312 S.
Galena Street be approved with the following conditions:
a)
b)
c)
d)
e)
f)
e)
f)
No historic windows be removed unless agreed to by
Staffand monitor. Ail attemps be made to save the
historic windows.
No aluminum be used on the building for stops or
additional construction.
All stops to be wood with attention to historic
detailing.
Awning to be restudied and approved by monitor and Staff.
Ail roof top additions to comply with plans as submitted,
Any variables to be submitted to Staff and monitor.
HPC would like to suggest that the owner looks at
bringing the building as close to its historical state
as possible.
Ail materials being used are approved by Staff and
monitor and if exterior work is to be done and the
weather changes that it be wrapped.
Front door be restudied to be wood.
second by Roger. Ail in favor of the motion, motion carries.
Discussion:
Donnelley: Painted steel has also been used on historic buildings.
Roger: I would encourage you to add wood and or steel.
Les: I didn't add it because that is giving them another hassle
and I do not like steel.
Donnelley: Wood doors that have high frequency use present
significant design problems and it will be a different expression
than what the architects have presented to us at this time. The
thin detailing of an aluminum store door is quite different in
appearance from wood.
Roger: Independence Building doors are cast with wood.
Joe and Les monitors.
835 W. MAIN - LANDMAREK DESIGNATION - PUBLIC HEARING
Amy: This is an application to consider landmark designation of
835 W. Main Street also known as the Berger parcel which was just
officially annexed into the city as of July 1993. I found that the
parcel meets 5 of the 6 historic standards and is only required to
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H~stor~c Preservation Committee
H~nu2es of September 8, ~993
meet one. Because this is associated with Fritz Benedict who is
an important local architect exhibits interesting design styles
which we do not have many examples of. It also contributes to
neighborhood and community character.
Scott Harper, representing Mr. Berger the applicant: This building
was built in 1947 is a prime example of the beginning of the
renaissance era the beginning of Aspen due to the ski industry and
related cultural aspects which exist today. It was designed by
Fritz Benedicte and one of his very first designs in Aspen. It was
one of the designs after he studied with Frank Lloyd Wright for
five years that exhibits a number of Wright infulences in the
design aspects of the building. It is significent also because we
are loosing other buildings from that era. It was one of the most
important architaects of that era and his buildings are
disappearing and we need to try and preserve the few that are left.
The buildilng is the western most structure within the city limits
on Main Street in Aspen. It was built with local materials and
lenado logs and sandstone from the frying pan river valley. With
the exception of the fact that there has been a small addition to
the house which is a music room done in 1964 and was done precisely
in the same design and style of the original structure. The
building exists today as when it was built in 1947. Mr. Berger has
no intention of changing the structure at all. Mr. Berger has
owned this since 1969.
Mr. Berger: The corner windows are mitered windows which means the
glass meets glass at a 45 degree angle. The interior ceiling is
called lapstreak ceiling which means the board overlap in the way
ship building was done and is unusual. The fireplace has
cantilever which projects over the logs and has recessed lighting
which is a Wrightian feature.
CLARIFICATIONS (NONE)
Chairman Bill Poss opened the public hearing.
Scott Harper presented the affidavit of mailing.
Amy: We are here to discuss whether this parcel meets landmark
designation criteria. But you all are aware that there are impacts
to the entrance to Aspen discussion. When the city addresses the
four lane or rail into Aspen they are required to go through an
environmental impact study partly because there are air quality
issues. Possibly this will not effect the Berger property but we
do not know where the line will occur. We need to consider that
there are several (8) resources involved if there is a realignment
of the highway. If we find that there is historical significance
in this structure there is every reason that the environmental
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Historic Preservation Committee
Minutes of September 8, 1993
impact statement should address how it would effect that property.
That does not mean it will stop the initiative it just means that
it needs addressed because it is part of our community.
Fred Pierce, Aspen Villas representative, attorney: It is the
immediately adjacent project to the north of Bergers. I am here
to oppose our oposition to this designation which evolved around
the five or six criteria that are set forth in the application.
The question is, is this truly an effort to take a piece of
historicaly signifcant property and designate it or is it an
attempt to put a road block in front of a vote that said the
straight shot to Aspen is where the transportation corridor should
be in terms for four laning and the Berger parcel was identified
as one of the buildings that would probably have to be moved if
they put the four lane in along the shot that the voters approved.
I want you to recall that vote and it wasn't the first and it
probablyi will not be the last but it was to the entrance of Aspen
and I remember it well. When you designate a piece of property
that clearly is in the way of that vote or alignment that you are
saying to the voters we don't care what you think, we think we have
an important consideration here irrespective of that. If you look
at the criateria to designate I would like to point out a few
things. I have heard that this is not eligible to be on the
national register because it is not old enough. Therefore, you are
looking for other kind of significances to make it fit in with the
criteria. The only thing that I have heard is that it is designed
by Fritz Benedict and he trained under Frank Lloyd Wright. I pose
the question that that is of historical significance? Is this a
significant structure that represents all of his work and is he a
significant architecte for that purpose. Historical importance is
the first criteria and Staff states that that is not met.
Architectural criterial in the memo states that the structure
represents architectural style that is unique, distinct or
traditional Aspen character. In the memo I reviewed I do not see
any discussion that states that it is unique, distinct and do not
see what makes it traditional Aspen character. Is the infulence
of Frank Lloyd Wright unique or distinct in this area or is it a
traditional Aspen character? My interpretation is the
victorian/mining era. I am not convinced that this building is
anything within these particular criteria. The structure and
distinguishing characteristics of a significant or unique
architectural type or specimen. Basically it is a log cabin and
is it significant. Have you had an experte that has told you it
is? Is Staff's opinion sufficient to make this kind of finding.
The second or third criteria is that the structure is a significant
work of an architect's individual work that has infulenced the
character of Aspen. Number one you are asked to find that Fritz
Benedict is an individual whose work has influenced the character
of Aspen, I do not know fi that is true or not. Is this structure
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H~sto~ic Preserv&tion Committee
M~nu~es of September 8~ L993
a significant work of his? You have heard that it is one of the
first. Does that make it significant, maybe it makes it
insignificant, I have not seen testimony to that. The next item
was neighborhood character and the way it is worded in the code is
that it is a significant component of an historically significant
neighborhood and the preservation is important for maintaining that
neighborhood character. The neighborhood out there is the Villas
of Aspen, the Aspen Villas, the Bavarian Inn and the three houses
on west Main Street and a very large new modern home just to the
south of those three houses. That to me is not a neighborhood
character that is significant historically, or in terms of this
partaicular building. I suggest that Staff's comments regarding
several houses do not apply in that area. I am not sure that is
a finding that you have the ability to make here tonight. With
respecft to community character the criteria says that the
structure is critical for the preservation of the Aspen communitiy
because its relations in terms of size, location and architectural
similarity to other structures of historical significance. You are
being told that this is the first of many, potential future ski
renaissance historical structures, I do not see it. That
particular statement does not provide you with the basis to make
that finding. There is nothing unique or special or significant
about this. A letter from Kim Johnson states that designation will
not impact the alignment of the highway. Upon direct discussion
wtih the Dept of Transportation they state clearely otherwise and
significantly delay the attempts to put the alignment there. The
letter regarding annexation states that the Bergers "desire to
obtain the right of franchise and not impede or prevent or therwise
interfere with the proposal of the State HWY 82 in the City of
Aspen and that the city "accepts and relies on the representation
from Mr. Berger that the annexation is not being sought to
influence the proposal of the highway 82. I would suggest that you
include in your resolution language to the effect of: This historic
designation is not intended to impede in any manor the straight
shot approach to Aspen for a 4 lane highway as approved by the
voters and if it is necessary to move the Berger house to
accomodate the straight shot such move is consistent with this
approval and should allowed without any additional review."
Dottie Murray: I live at 814 W. Bleeker, formerly Aspen Villas.
We are a condo complex of 26 homeowners and my husband is on the
board. I am the spokesman of the people and Fred is the legal
representative. I wish to repeat and reinforce those statements
that Fred has already said. We are not here to battle the highway
issue. The first issue is whether this home should be historically
designated. I have a general contractor that builds homes in the
style of Frank Lloyd Wright for 20 years and don't expect any of
them to be given landmark status being Minnesotta or here. In 1990
we were active in the entrance of Aspen and were informed that a
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H~stor~c Preservation Committee
N~nutes of September 8, L993
few homes would have to be removed or relocated and the Berger home
was mentioned. This is one more roadblock to the process, we do
not know what we are going to get as a highway. We should keep our
options open and this is one more stumbling block to the means to
our end. Therefore I am violently opposed to the designation of
this property.
Jeffery Evans: In 1990 there were 42% of the people who chose the
S curve as the preferred alignment. If those people had a problem
the proper recourse is to take their case to the voters and not try
to use the HPC as a way of creating a political problem. If you
approve this request I would suggest that you are in fact being
used for a larger political battle that has nothing to do with
historic designation. I called Fritz and he didn't know anything
about this meeting. These people want to preserve Fritz's work but
never called him about it. I explained the situation and he asked
if the house could be moved if the highway was to come through.
I asked Fritz if this building had any significance to you and does
it mean anything special to you personally. He said he would think
about it but it didn't raise any sapecial recollection. I wanted
him to know that his name was being used in a larger political
battle over the highway and that if he was interested the mtg. was
today. He never called me back to state his comment and obviously
he has no strong interest in it. Your time and effort is being
manipulated.
Jerry Felds, 111 S. Seventh: I think that this has become a
political football. The question that comes before this group is
this an historical designated unit. I know Bruce's house and I am
a sculpture artist by profession and I know I have not gone to
sculpturers if they thought this was a premium piece of my work.
The important thing is that this is a house that was built in 1947
that represents the part of the beautiful growth of Aspen. I have
never sat in on the historical meeting before and I am terribly
impressed with the way all of you are so concerned with details
that what you have done going over the last building and worrying
about each detail is remarkable. The Berger house is a beautiful
example of Fritz Benedict work and one of Aspen's national
treasures and it should be preserved. It is an important part of
Aspen.
Bruce Berger: I have seen Fritz during the summer and everytime
he asks me what the status of the house is. He does have interest.
As far as Wrightian architecture there are only two others in town
that have studied under him, Charlie Patterson, Robin Molney. A
list of buildings that belonged to his tradition one way or another
are Frsitz's Bank of Aspen, Meadows, Boomerang Lodge, the Hearth
Stone house. This was architecture that was practiced in Aspen.
The issue of the highway I would like to remind you of the
His2oric Preservation Committee
Minutes of Septen~er 8, X993
transportation meeting held at the Institute for two days in August
which was conviened by Jeff Tynas and said put all the cards on the
table and discuss everything when it comes to transprotation. One
of the cards is that we are talking about an historic house and we
cannot pretend that it is anything other than what it is. The idea
to sweep it under the table because it is inconvenient for a
transportation route, I think to pretend something that does exist,
does not. This should be decided on its merits.
Mary Martin: I was on HPC after a log building was allowed to be
turn down and then the lot was split. HPC does improve along the
way. I believe in saving historic building and do not believe this
is historic. Fritz Benedict has had enough patrons supporting his
work by the Meadows and Herbert Bayer. Fritz built Snowmass. He
has a lot to honor in this city. Whether you voted for the
straight shot or not it won. If government doesn't respect the
vote of the people then there is something wrong with governemnt.
That straight shot maybe changed a dozen times. I wouldn't want
a train by my house either, I would ask to have it moved. I am all
for designation. Move it to the Marolt property. If you do allow
this to be preserved you might come up with a class action suite
unless you put this one article that he mentioned: that if in the
event the highway or the alignment of a train or whatever comes
this man can deed restrict his house to never be changed.
Bill Martin: Our house was 1890
historical I can't understand why.
of historica designation.
and to clasify this house as
It does not fit into the class
Scott Harper, attorney: The majority of people here speak in
opposition and unfortunately did not follow the 1 1/2 year long
progression of annexation petition. It took that long because it
became a political issue and should not haves been a political
issue. Clearly this property has five or the six criteria met for
historical designation and only one has to be met. The unique
character of the neighborhood is disappearing because of
comdominium projects and this property is one of the few left that
does preserve it unique character. This is not the appropriate
form to address political issues of the 4-lane which may or may not
happen in my life time. I have had direct discussions with CDOT
also. There was no indication that a local historic designation
will impete a four lane if the State so chooses to do so. Lets
look at whether this building meets the criteria of designation or
not here tonight.
Dottie Murray: We had reps at all those annexation meetings and
letters have been entered here today to Amy. There are quotes from
Mayor Bennett promising us this very thing would not happen. I
thought it had to be 50 yrs. old. I see the Martin's home as
Historic Preservation Committee
Minutes of September 8, 1993
historic but Marvin is currently making a corner window also and
puttin git in every third thing that is built. If Fritz work are
so significant why was the water fall house tourn down. Am I
missing the point here?
Bill: That was not protected by designation and was not in the
city and in the county.
Mary: Why did Mr. Berger have to move into the city when Amy's
precdecesor was trying to designate houses in the county?
Scott Harper: Mr. Berger has never tryied to hide the fact that
he was trying to get desgnation. We filed the petition for
designation at the same time we filed for annexation.
Francis Uhler, Aspen Villas 814 W. Bleeker: I was in touch with
an out of state architect in this matter and was told that one of
the original homes of Wright called the Loren Pope house was moved
two years ago because a highway had to go through and that that was
a definate possibility. If you are seeking to make the
relationship of designation with Mr. Wright you are grabbing at
straws.
Bruce Berger: Brenden Gill has written a biography of Wright and
pointed out certain figtures immediately when he came into the
house.
Chairman Bill Poss closed the public hearing.
Bill Poss entered a letter into the records from Harry Farb who
owns property at 814 W. Bleeker. He states his opposition.
Amy: County has a preservation program and have identified certain
areas. The water fall was determined eligible for the register
because of Fritz Benedicts importance to this town. With a living
architect it is difficult to judge. This is an early stage of
Fritz career. HPC has the authority to make the decision even if
it isn't 50 years old. We do not know what the outcome of the
highway will be. I fwe don't address home we will start to loose
it all.
COMMITTEE COMMENTS
Les: I made two calls to Legal Council and even a national
designated site will not stop a federal mandated road. The City
Attorneys office said this in no way will effect the highway coming
in here. This building is historic designation. Over the last
several years we have had worksession$ on how to preserve or
ecclectic mix here in Aspen. This is all the transition materials
18
Historic Preservation Committee
Minutes of September 8, 1993
also. I am here for preservation of historic structures.
meets the criterial of B,CA,D,F.
This
Donnelley: I have know this house long before it became an issue.
I am better briefed in architectural history and am incensed that
it is an political issue. I mentioned to Bruce several years ago
that this was extraordinary house. I am an architect and have done
work in architectural history and should be saved. It is obviously
a political issue and I am incensed that there are so many people
here totally uneducated in terms of what is or what is not
historic.
Jeff Evans: That is a pretentious remark.
Donnelley: I have not heard anything but prejudicial comment. It
is our mandate to determine what is historically important or not
on the basis of the criteria presented. Standard B has been met
long ago and it is an archaitectural style that is unique and
distinct to Aspen. The importance of the small building must be
saved.
Karen: I agree with everything that has been said and we are not
here to encourage or impede highways. We are here to protect
buildings that we 'feel are historically significant. I feel it
meets category D. This is one of Fritz's first buildings in Aspen.
It represents the beginnings of the new Aspen that came into being
after WWII. I would recommend designation of the this house.
Roger: In part of being a proactive board in the last two years
we have discussions about buildings that have been constructed
since 1910 and what to do with them. We have lost many. Our job
is to preserve as much as we can of the uniqueness of Aspen. That
would be like the house of Mr. Bergers. At some point we will be
dealing with the Swiss Chalet on Aspen. It is in fact historic.
In five years the Berger house will be 50 years old. We need to
look at bldg. that will be historic in the future. History does
not stop. It is our mandate to designate this house.
Joe: We have been discussion the two eras in Aspen's history the
mining era 1910 and a separate era the Ski industry era which
started after WW 2. The Log Cabin was built in the 40's and it has
a landmark designation. It is unique because it is a log cabin on
Main Street. Looking at the standards I think it meets standard
B because it is of traditional Aspen character. Small in scale and
built from local materials. It could stand on that alone. It also
meets E and F. It is important to maintain our smaller buildings.
HPC recommended at its last meeting designation of a rock.
Mary: I am all for preservation and no one has a quam about
19
Historic Preservation Committee
N~nutes of Bep~ember 8~ ~993
preserving that house, the only thing that came out was the fact
that it should have a clause in it to make it easier if the hwy or
train comes through that your hands have written this off and
making your job easier.
Martha: I feel we have a responsibility of course to recognize
properties that we feel are significent and I agree even though it
isnot 50 years old that it is emerging into the era that we should
be recognizing as historic. I also think we as a committee are
looking at neighborhoods and doing an historic overlay of those
neighborhoods and this is the kind of neighborhood that we need to
look at with the large trees and space. I do not feel as strongly
architecturally as others but it does represent a era that we need
to look at and preserve.
Jake: I do not know too many log cabins that got to colide with
Frank LLoyd Wright. I feel it is a small scale and the
architecture is interesting. We extend our infulence in other
areas and the way to do that is landmarking houses to look a
redevelopment of sites and demolitions.
Linda: Early Aspen is seen as mining and skiing which are large
areas that we are looking at. The skiing area maybe needs more
emphasis and this is one of those houses that should be part of
that. We need to give more concern to that and people will look
back at that era. Nothing stops a federal highway, I lost my
family home to a highway when I was growing up and you always have
the right to move it. We need to keep the highway issued tempered.
Bill: I feel there is enough reason to find that this structure
meets B, D, and F. and we are charged with preserving structures.
The structure can be moved and we have done so to others.
Fred: When the water fall house was deemed to be eligible but the
state it was not becasue it was a Benedict house it was because of
the uniqueness of the waterfall.
Amy: That is not what the letter states.
Joe: Your firm represented the people that tore it down.
Jeff Evans: Regarding B, uniqueness every single home in town
would satisfy that criteria. See what become historic and category
B, I get the sense that everything should be historic.
Don: This building can stand on its own without Fritz Benedict.
Jeff Evans: This is a political issue and possibly will slow down
the process to the entrance of Aspen.
2O
Historic Preservation Commitkee
Minutes of September $, X993
Fred: I still feel you should include the paragraph in your motion
to take the political issue out.
Amy: Including that in the motion we are stating that it is a
political '
issue.
~OTION: Les made the motion that HPC recommend to City Council
designation of 835 W. Main, know as the Berger Annexation, City of
Aspen finding that it meets criteria B,C,D, E, and F; second by
Roger.
Joe: Adopt a resolution recommending landmark designation for 835
W. Main Berger Annexation finding that it meets one or more of the
criteria B, C,D,E.and F.
AMy: The site and structure are designated.
Fred: I feel you should designate the site only,.
Bill: We leave it open to the benefit of the applicatn to be able
to move the structure on the site by giving incentives such as
setbacks, parking etc.
Fred: If you designate the site you will find that when the HWY
come in the city will be waving its red flags saying I'm sorry it
is an historic site. We cannot move the site.
AMENDED MOTION: HPC recommends approval of landmark designation
of 835 W. Main Berger Annexation, City of Aspen finding that it
meets one or more of the criteria B,C,D,E, and F; second by Roger.
All in favor, motion carries.
Mary Martin: You cannot dsignate annexation.
Amy: That is the address that is used as metes and bounds.
DISCUSSION 107 JUAN STREET AUSTIN PROPERTY
Amy: We had a site visit and this house is on the inventory and
is a miners cottage. We are looking at doing an affordable housing
project.
Dave Tolen: We are trying to identify programs to present for
conceptual. Considering the historical resource on site we
recommended two programs C & D. This is GMQS exempt as it is 100
percent affordable housing. It is a six step process. The project
incorporates underground parking. One scheme would be studio one
bedroom and the other is family oriented.
Zl
Historic Preservation Committee
Minutes of September 8, 1993
Joe: I like C better than D as it is a little tall.
Amy: The building is being shifted to the right because there is
another residential structure at the bend of the road. I like the
courtyard configuration which is represented in C.
Karen: Which is needed the most in employee housing, three
bedrooms or studio.
Tom Baker: We need both. Ail of the needs can be met on the site.
Karen: I feel to make the historic residence dominent would be to
do the one bedroom/ studio which would be D.
Les: I like the smaller scale. Units along the street front would
be smaller.
Donnelley: Both schemes would work.
definate program come out.
I would like to have a
Roger: Will the historic residence have a basement?
Dave: Potentially.
Roger: I would have the entrance to the underground parking moved
further up to the east. The front of the project is Juan street
and why have the underground parking th dominent item. The
historic house will be moved.
Dave: You mean move the entrance as far away as possible.
Roger: In D.C. the entrance is only one car wide and they had a
light to control it. That will work with either plan.
Jake: Possibly intergrade a porch.
Martha: I am for the less square footage and like the spaciouness
around the historic structure photo D.
Jake: Regarding the program I feel there is a need for family
housing. When you have family housing that involves kids and
issues of safety and where they play. You need to adequately
provide for their needs. I like C because the height is lower and
the historic building is more visual. I also like the articulation
of D fragmented and broken down. Maybe you could do something
creative with the bank.
Bill: The smaller structures are more compatible.
Historic Preservation Committee
M~nutes of September 8, 1993
Roger: What about a porch on the historic structure.
Don: We had talked about that and it is appropriate.
Don: What incentives will there be for the design team to make it
economically viable to do a good job.
Dave: There is a preference for the three bedroom option.
Roger: Most people have a bike and car and there should be
sufficient storage. At west hopkins that is a major storage
problem. Possibly provide for a path etc. to the Koch Park.
Les: Probably why we like C over due is due to scale and massing.
MOTIONs Jake made the motion to adjourn; second by Les. Ail in
favor, motion carries.
Meeting adjourned at 9:30 p.m.
Kathleen J. Strickland Chief Deputy Clerk
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