HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.hpc.19921209HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE
Minutes of December 9, 1992
Meeting was called to order by Don Erdman with Les Holst, Jake
vickery, Roger Moyer, Martha Madsen, Bill Poss and Linda Smisek
present. Excused were Karen Day and Joe Krabacher.
Roxanne: Nicklaus's Kunes would like to add an addition onto the
structure. This is on the national register and he would like to
be added to the agenda.
MOTION= Roger made the motion to add 303 E. Main to the agenda;
second by Linda. Ail in favor, motion carries.
308 S. HUNTER - SILVER CITY ORILL - AIRLOCKS
Roxanne: An airlock is a windshield.
Applicant: When we open the door we have a pressure problem and
get an incredible draft into the restaurant. It would also change
the appearance of the building.
Roxanne: What they want to do is a clear plastic window that comes
over the railing and snaps.
Roger: The real issue is that more airlocks presentations will be
coming to the Board for review. I would allow them presently and
then have a worksession to get guidelines as to what we want on
historic building and in the historic district.
Les: I feel it is important that we look at airlocks and that we
also do a study on this. The architect should take this into
consideration when he is designing a building. Maybe we should
talk to the building department and factor this in when they talk
about windows etc. and R factors.
Don: The Silver City existing looks like 36 inches square. Is the
new proposal a new airlock that people will be eating within that
area?
Applicant: The airlock is larger and the increased space is for
energy efficiency.
Don: It appears quite wide.
Roger: Our recommendation for this season would be to approve it
as a temporary measure and that we would like to have a worksession
with the P & Z in the future.
Jake: We have no criteria.
Roxanne: Your development review standards are your criteria.
H£storic Preservation Committee
M~nutes oE December 9, ~99~
Don: The only traffic is what is generated by the establishment
because it is not on the sidewalk.
MOTIONs Les made the motion that HPC approve the airlock located
at 308 S. Hunter, Silver City Grill and that it meets one of our
four guidelines. This approval is on a temporary basis to be
reviewed after we have had a study session; second by Linda.
Don: We would want to see it down by April 15th and that it can
be used for another season starting in Oct. and that they would
have to reapply.
Martha: We definitely need a worksession.
Applicant: I would like to know that it could be longer than four
months. All the awnings are being changed but they are also going
to fit the airlock. I would like not to have another additional
expense. If the Board changes its specifications I need to change
the frame.
Martha: You will be able to take this down in the summer?
Applicant: The airlock system will snap on and come off.
support system will stay.
The
Linda: Is there a double door that could be utilized as an
airlock?
Applicant: No.
Don: The motion needs some amending with having to do with the
explicit time limits regarding the renewal.
Jake: What about an option where we table this for two weeks and
within that two week period we find a solution. I am real
uncomfortable with this and we do not have criteria to make
evaluations. If this is a minor development should we use that
criteria to evaluate this.
Roger: I have no problem with this.
Les: I do not either. We do need to establish criteria.
Roxanne: April 15th is the date the Planning office recommends.
In reviewing this you would use the development standards.
Les: I would like to still give two winters to the applicant.
MOTION WITHDRAWN: I will withdraw the motion.
H~sto~io P~eservation C~mmittee
Minutes of December 9~ 1993
MOTIONs Roger made the motion to allow the proposal for 308 S.
Hunter to be installed as presented. This is applicable with our
historic guidelines; second by Les. Question was called; Carried
5-1. In favor, Don, Les, Roger, Martha and Linda. Jake was
opposed.
Don: The planning office has established April 15th as the removal
date so we do not have to mention that in the motion.
609 E. COOPER - POPPYCOCKS
Applicant: We want to use clear plastic strips. It would be a
hoped overhead with canvas and clear plastic strips hanging down.
The sidewalk and door are indented.
Linda: Similar to a box.
MOTION: Les made the motion to approve the airlock for 609 E.
Cooper finding that it meets the development review standards one
and two and that the applicant complies with the time frame
mandated by the City; second by Roger. Question was called by Don
Erdman; Carries 5-1. In favor, Don, Les, Roger , Martha and Linda.
Jake was opposed.
Bill Poss seated.
303 E. MAIN - NIKLAUS KUNEB - WORKSESSION
Niklaus's son presented: I really would like to have my own
business and that would be the only way I could stay here in Aspen
after graduating from CU. I would like to have a collectable store
along with antiques. I looked around town to see if there were
vacancies. There are numerous franchises coming to town. I then
approached my father. He is presently renting out the victoria and
the shack in back of the house. My father wants to keep the people
in there. I want to keep the historic dominance to the front.
Niklaus Kunes: The house exists right now on 1 1/2 lots. The
proposal is to build something to the back but away from the
property line.
Roxanne: I told Niklaus that the addition would have to be very
small to the side to the back part of the facade to meet the
standards. I recommended that he come to HPC and get feedback.
Les: My concern is the streetscape so that the addition doesn't
take away what we have there.
Don: The proposal is a porch addition which is not enclosed. They
Historic Preservation committee
Minutes of December 9, 1993
have an original structure on the west.
side which is not appropriate because
important as what is existing.
It is duplicating the west
it then becomes just as
Niklaus: We need to know what the Board would prefer.
Linda: The addition should be subservient
so that you can visually see the historic
addition.
to the main structure
building and see the
Roger: You now know that you do not want to copy the main
structure and it should appear to be an addition. The roof as it
attaches to the main structure will be the hardest element to deal
with. Possibly it should be lower or a flat roof.
Les: The applicant needs to get a copy of the development
standards.
Jake: Don't forget the technical side and calculate your FAR etc.
Martha: I recommend that they continue with their idea and I
support them regarding the addition and that they come back to the
Board with plans based on the research that they will be doing so
that the Board can be very clear.
MINOR DEVELOPMENT - PIONEER PARK
Roxanne: Arthur Stromberg is the new owner of the house. The
overall changes do not constitute a character change. There are
a few problems with the rear addition and how the stairway is
working.
Kevin MacLeod, Cunniffe & Associates representing new owner Arthur
Stromberg: We are adding a privacy fence near the pool and
cleaning it up from what is there now. The other two additions we
are doing would be one small mudroom area behind the house which
is under an existing roof and also the addition of a rear stair to
the back of the house. We tried to keep this to a minimum due to
FAR considerations. On the carriage house the upstairs bedroom has
no egress windows and without disturbing the other windows that are
visible to the public we have decided to change the fixed window
to two casement windows.
Roger: Why would you want to have a deck rather than the historic
patio design?
Kevin MacLeod: The steps tend to remove the patio from the living
space. The deck would be at the same level as the living space.
It will be behind the privacy fence.
Historic Preservation committee
Minutes of December 9, 1993
Roger:
Kevin:
Roger:
fence?
What is the material?
Wood on the deck.
Could there be a break between the carriage house and the
Kevin MacLeod: Our last pier will be away from the carriage house
and not attached but we have to attach the fence to it due to the
pool.
Don: The piers seem to rise above the height of the fence. We are
getting close to seven feet. The new deck is an element that is
virtually the whole width of the facade.
Martha: I also have a question about the deck and possibly some
more thought should go into the design.
Les: I just built a fence and nothing can go over six feet.
Bill: What is the height of the deck?
Kevin MacLeod: Whatever the existing floor is.
Bill: If it is over 30 inches it would require a railing and if
that occurs the cumulative impact of this deck will be more of an
impact.
Roger: Have you had the opportunity to look at the model and past
plans that were approved?
Kevin MacLeod: I have not and have been instructed by the owner
to not get involved with anything in the past.
Roger: The reason why I asked that is because there is a lot of
valuable information that you might want to review.
Arthur Stromberg: I am the owner and it was clearly stated to me
by Kaplan that if any idea that we generate appears to be an idea
that his architect did he would sue us. I then instructed my
architect to not look at any past plans and have letters stating
SO.
Jake: I do not think this is a minor development application.
There are too many things going on.
Kevin MacLeod: If the deck will be a problem in the approval
process we will remove it. It seems that numerous questions and
Historic Preservation Committee
Minutes of December 9, 1993
concerns are about the deck.
Don: If the deck is being deleted from the proposal it helps a
great deal regarding the approval. We have discussed the fence
height and that is being dealt with. The third issue is the
addition to the rear. Historically when buildings of this nature
were added on too the rear addition being an extension of profiles
were quite common. I have no problem with the stylistic extension
of something which is not a principal facade. I feel in this case
it is more appropriate than branching into another type of
expression.
Roger: In the past, this board spent a lot of time on the fence
which was a design that came from a rendering of the original
architecture. That is how we worked with it. I ask the board if
it is Ok with them that the fence now is not a brick fence and that
it is brick and wood? Secondly, that the fence was not a
predominant feature to the landmark so that when people walked down
the street it was not a barrier. There were openings in the fence
where you could see through allowing a minor view of the carriage
house and pool area but closed enough so that you could sunbathe.
How does the Board feel?
Kevin MacLeod: Regarding the height between the main house and the
mansard our proposal is to continue the plane of our addition to
the mansard.
Bill: It is at the same height.
Linda: Roxanne is indicating that this plane should be lower and
not an extension of the original roof. I would like to comment on
the fence and giving a minor view to the public. Historically
people did not sunbathe in their back yards in large estates. I
would go with the feeling of having some kind of view instead of
having people wondering what is over that fence.
Les: I have no problem with the addition on the back because it
does not effect the massing and it meets the design criteria. I
think the separate elements in the fence might be an asset because
it softens to go from brick to wood. I have walked down that block
numerous times and there might be a step that they could take to
make it even softer.
Don: We are looking at the hard elements without landscaping or
shrubbery and things that will happen as part of the landscaping
plan. With that in mind I feel Roger's recommendation that there
be some articulation, some voids that do not necessarily have to
be large but an articulation between each pier in the wood elements
which also helps when you come to the termination of the fence.
Historic Preservation Committee
Minutes of December 9, 1993
It will be easier to create articulation between the fence and the
carriage house. While they may appear like large visual slots in
the drawings, in reality you see things at an angle and also I
trust that there will be plantings to help this. It would be a
good recommendation for the Board to direct greater articulation
between the piers in terms of real voids which may only be three
inches.
Bill: I agree with all of the committee member comments and they
are additions to meeting our guidelines. I would specifically like
a little transparency between the piers and the fence as Donnelley
stated to give you privacy but a little transparency while walking
by. I am concerned about the height of the deck because if you
go over 30 inches it forces you to have a railing and an additional
impact. I am concerned about the cumulative effect of adding on.
I am in favor of the additional stair on the back but find it a
duplication of the stair that is in there and I am not familiar
with the clients needs nor need to be but if other additions come
on I have a concern.
Kevin MacLeod: There are no plans for another addition.
Bill: I do agree that if the deck would be taken away it would be
a minor addition and we might be able to review this as a minor
review.
Roxanne: Did the committee decide
addition should just extend from
the plane?
that the roof line of the new
the rear without any break in
Donnelley: If you look at it in three dimensional it would be
quite awkward because Kevin's suggestion here is that the mansard
roof not break in plane. If it does not break, it makes it very
difficult to break the top plane of it. If it broke back in plane
it would be easier but right now it would make it awkward I think
to change the height of the top of the roof in this case. That is
the way I read it.
Bill: I would tend to agree with Donnelley, and architecturally
Kevin has taken the right approach, although the Committee might
be concerned that additions should be identified, I feel it would
be quite difficult to drop that roof, make the windows work, it is
a small enough addition that it should go along with the historic
nature of the structure and it would tend to complicate the issue
by making it more busy, different height effects and I feel that
since this is a minor addition to this historic element it should
attempt to replicate what is there. There is enough history to
show that it was added onto.
H~stor~c Preservation Committee
~nu2e$ of December 9~ ~993
Jake: I agree and agree with the comments. The Board will treat
this as a minor development in the interest of allowing the
applicant to proceed with his plans and knowing that these changes
are less than the previous application. If we had a two step
process we would have final and that would have more details in it.
I would suggest that you do a similar process with a monitor and
Staff so that any points raised here can be followed through on.
Bill: I
monitor
that.
feel that is a good point to work the process out with the
and Staff. The recommendation or motion should reflect
Roger: It seems that everyone is comfortable with a wood rather
than brick fence so my question is whether the wood fence would be
painted or leave it natural.
Kevin MacLeod: We would probably paint it.
Roger: If the fence were brick with cedar and could patina out over
time it would be much more attractive than a painted fence because
a painted fence would give you heaviness.
Kevin MacLeod: We are open to those suggestions.
Donnelley: It is inevitable that this fence is going to be a back
drop for landscaping and when you have landscaping materials
against a fence that is painted it is very hard to maintain the
fence without destroying some of the landscaping materials and also
you have a lot of watering going on which breaks down paint
surfaces quickly.
Roxanne: I did not review the carriage house dormer which was
brought up today on the second floor, south elevation. On the
Kaplan plan they were doing a good restoration of the Schweitzer
cottage. They were getting rid of an inappropriate shed/dormer
that was on that elevation that the Board fully supported.
Unfortunately that is not taking place and I would recommend that
the whole end of the mansard be restored. I am disappointed that
it is not being restored and also disappointed to see that they are
going to have to put in casement windows. I have a real concern
about that and the Board should look at it more closely before
making a motion.
Kevin MacLeod:
hung window.
There is an egress problem and we need a double
Roxanne: The Building Dept, Planning Dept. and the applicant have
not sat down to talk about this issue.
H~stor~c Preservation Committee
N~nutes of December 9~ L993
Roger: The dialogue has to take place between the three entities.
Is this a structure which someone is living in; it has existed for
over 100 years. That is an important item in an historic
structure.
Roxanne: It is a condominiumized separate unit.
Roger: Can we restore it with integrity and still have egress?
Roxanne: We need to discuss the options.
Bill: This is not part of the application to restore it, it is for
egress.
Jake: But it is a replacement.
Roger: Is the replacement the same size as the existing opening?
Kevin MacLeod: Yes.
Don: Since the opening is not being changed, the addition of two
vertical elements somewhat helps the appearance. At some point the
carriage house may be restored.
Roger: I concur but would ask for a little restudy.
~OTION~ Donnelley made the motion that HPC grant minor development
approval based on the drawings presented to us subject to specific
conditions as follows: These conditions to be met prior to the
issuance of a building permit 1) Fence be restudied and the new
proposal be approved by monitor and Staff. No elements in the
fence be greater than six feet high and greater transparency be
achieved which was discussed among the Committee. 2) No deck be
built at this time and any deck above grade be subject to separate
review 3) The Carriage house dormer be approved subject to further
study of the fenestration keeping in mind that egress is required.
4) Materials be consistent with those that exist on the original
structure and be approved by monitor and Staff; second by Jake.
All in favor, motion carries.
Bill: How many committee members would agree with Jake's point of
differentiating the addition to the existing structure as opposed
to following along and replicating this minor addition to the
historic structure.
Jake: I am talking about subtle things that are very compatible.
Kevin MacLeod: I understand what Jake is saying and I could
discuss that with the monitor and Staff when we discuss materials.
Historic Preservation Comm~22ee
Hinu2es of December 9, ~993
We are willing to look at ways that there would be some difference.
Roxanne: When the working drawings come in we can all sit down and
go over them.
Roxanne: The vested rights process needs to be started also.
COMMUNICATION
MOTION: Don made the motion to approve the minutes of November 11,
1992; second by Linda. All in favor, motion carries.
MOTION: Don made the motion to approve the minutes of November 25,
1992; second by Martha. All in favor, motion carries.
MOTION: Linda made the motion to adjourn; second by Roger. Ail
in favor, motion carries.
Meeting adjourned at 6:00 p.m.
Kathleen J. Strickland, Chief Deputy Clerk
R~stor~c Preserva2~on Committee
~inu2es o~ Decen~e~ 9, L993
308 S. HUNTER - SILVER CITY GRILL - AIRLOCKS
609 E. COOPER - POPPYCOCKS
303 E. MAIN - NIKLAUS KUNES - WORKSESSION .
MINOR DEVELOPMENT - PIONEER PARK
COMMUNICATION .
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