HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.hpc.19920708Historic Preservation Committee
Minutes of July 8, 1992
WORKSESSION - WAGNER PARK RITZ SITE ICE RINK
624 E. HOPKINS - PUBLIC HEARING VESTED RIGHTS
100 E. BLEEKER CONCEPTUAL DEVELOPMENT PUBLIC HEARING
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HISTORIC PRESERVATION coMMITTEE Minutes of July 8,1992
Meeting was called to order by Don Erdman with Bill PosS, Jake
vickery, Roger Moyer, Karen Day and Linda Smisek present. Les
Holst, Joe Krabacher and Martha Madsen were excused.
MOTION: Roger made the motion to approve the minutes of May 27,
1992; second by Linda. Ail in favor, motion carries.
WORKSESSION - WAGNER pARK RITZ SITE ICE RINK
· Diane Moore, Planning Director: Presented overview of Wagner Park
& Ritz site ice rink. The actual Ritz ice rink sheet 60 by 100
feet with two structure onsite. One is for maintenance with a
portion below grade and the other is a two story structure which
would be a skate rental building. They also have a concession
i itz site is a landscaped park area. This
area. A portion of the ~ ...... as o~osed to what is being
is a permanent outdoor rlnK.str~cuu£= ~ ' ice rink'ln
proposed for Wagn~r.Par~ which is temporary being converted twi~e
a year. For clarification there will only be one new
the city. What we want to do now is extend the date for i~suance
of the certificate of occupancy for the Ritz from October this year
to October 1993. We will then have an approved rink on the Ritz
site. If the Koch rink is approved'the Ritz site becomes a park
$750,000 will go in escrow for operations of the Koch site. If
Koch is not approved the Ritz rink will go forward and construct
the rink by October 1, 1993.
Diane: The ~och process will be a four ~tep process a~d HPC will
ss. We are trying to determine what is
be involved in ~he ~oce__= ~e ize for an outdoor rink in the
really the best £oca=lon unu m=~ s such as cost, visual
city. We looked at riding, issues
environmental, circulation and dIfferent activities taking place.
Roger: What is the size of an olympic ice sheet?
Diane: 100 by 200.
Craig Hansen, Design Workshop: We studied the use patterns and
looked at the proximity to the mall in relationship to Cooper and
Hyman and entire mall area. During the mining days that parcel had
buildings and was dense. In the fire of 1884 the Claradon burnt
down and rebuilt and burnt down again at the turn of the century.
After that it became a piece of open space in the town. Sometime
between the 20"s and the 40's it was official deemed a park. In
the 1950's it was used as a parking lot. So that was the progress,
it was infill during the mining days, then infill and open space..
Diane: The transfer of Wagner Park to the city has trails involved
and it will occur within the next two months. From an historic
point of view it never really was a park and sort of became one.
Historic Preservation Committee
Minutes of July 8, 1992
Craig: What it is is open space used as a playing field and does
not meet the standards for a park from the National Association of
Parks standards. There are neighborhood parks, community parks and
city parks and regional parks and it doesn't fit any of those
categories and it is too small to be a ball field and too big to
be a vest pocket park and doesn't fit anything traditional.
Michael Erneman, architect: Cooper was attached during the 1920's.
And in the 1940 photographs it still snows people playing ball but
going across the gravel. We ranked all our research with a matrix
and came up with a plan. How does the ice rink make life better
in the community and how does it effect the park in summer. People
go round and round with nothing to draw them. The rink is better
situationed on an axis with Cooper Street. A service structure
would be at the far end.
Jake: How did it come to be an olympic size rink.
Michael: Exhibition hockey if it would ever occur is far more
exciting; the cost from a normal hockey rink which is 85 by 200 to
100 by 200 is not significant in the context of all. If we cover
it up in the summer the impact is the same. Aspen does not have
a full size rink. Having a small open rink was totally
incompatible with covering it back up in the summer and having a
playing field there.
Diane: We are looking at 200 to 300 people a day using the rink.
A typical recreational skater skates for an hour or and hour and
1/2. Peak time is 3:00 p.m. to 7:00 p.m.
Michael: The 85 by 100 isn't big enough for speed skaters, figure
skaters and hockey players. Obviously there has to be a management
of ice time. The space presently is dead in the winter.
Don: Is this cost effective for the city?
Michael: It will throw money back to the city and is cost
effective.
Don: As historic preservationists we need to talk about the
physical implications.
Bill: We had always talked about the "three great ladies, Little
Nell, Hotel Jerome and the Ritz and that people will go to the
different hotels and utilize that circulation.
Karen: Behind McDonalds the traffic is heavy with tourists etc.
It has been my theory that on the Savannah site we should have a
place of quiet and stillness not more confusion, a park.
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Minutes of July 8, 1992
Michael: I couldn't agree more. Ail the buildings around the
Savannah site are three and four story and to have the vest pocket
park would make it a soft urban space. There will be a entrance
to the park and identified.
Roger: Will the roof tops be used for viewing etc.?
Michael: They could be and I would like some shape to this
building.
Diane: We are trying to set this up that it would not be operated
by the city and contract it out.
624 E. HOPKINS - PUBLIC HEARING VESTED RIGHTS
Bill Stepped down
Don chaired
Don Erdman opened the public hearing.
Kim Johnson: Staff recommends adoption
resolution for three years.
of the vested right
MOTION: Roger made the motion to approve the vested rights
resolution; second by Jake. All in favor, motion carries.
100 E. BLEEKER CONCEPTUAL DEVELOPMENT PUBLIC HEARING
Don Erdman opened the public hearing.
Kim: The project consists of adding a second level detached
accessory dwelling unit above an existing garage which is not an
historic structure but is located on an historic parcel. Ed Grosse
is the owner and Sven Alstrom is presenting the project. In
addition to conceptual development for the structure itself you
have to make a finding on setbacks and parking variations. One
parking space is suggested for an ADU however it is not a code
requirement. Four standards are to be considered by the HPC.
There is an encroachment of the existing garage structure into the
rear alley and across the property line on the west side 1.4 feet
on the west and 1.8 feet into the alley. The applicant met with
city Staff Encroachment Committee and site visited and it is the
Encroachment Committee's finding that will be recommended to the
Engineering Department that the encroachment not be granted to
prolong the encroachment to the west. So what that means to the
applicant is that in the course of the redevelopment of the garage
the rear wall would have to be moved to where it is no longer
encroaching into the alley. 1.8 feet would be lost along the
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Minutes of July 8, 1992
alley. The proposed ADU on your sketches shows that the accessory
unit is dropped back to within the setback area so the new
structure will not enlarge the encroachment. The variation
.proposed or requested is part of this accessory unit are only for
zero lot lines.
Roger: Regarding the finding recommended by the Planning office
stating that they recommend approval of conceptual finding that the
setback and parking variations are more compatible should be
disregarding due to the findings of the Encroachment Committee.
Klm: I believe so but you can make a forwarding recommendation to
Engineering but Engineering as of today had composed a letter to
Mr. Grosse describing that the review committee was not willing to
approve the encroachment.
Sven Alstrom: I am trying to present a conceptual development that
I feel is appropriate, small scale and gets us an ADU. We knew
that we were dealing with encroachments because the existing
building is encroaching. I designed it so that it did not increase
any non-conformity, left the existing encroachments there. I guess
HPC cannot be at odds with the engineering. In Roxanne's memo she
was basically asking you to support what we had shown but I guess
HPC doesn't have authority to make judgments on encroachments.
Don: The existing encroachment does not appear to impede any
required city activity in the alley, i.e. snow plowing, trash
collecting. So, the encroachment is not an hindrance to vehicular
access. Does the city have any problem with the present
encroachment?
Kim: No they don't. The opinion of the Eng. Dept. is the fact
that this building is going to have its roof removed and a second
level added which is a major project and now is the time to clear
up the 1 1/2 foot encroachment into the alley.. Once the second
story is put on that encroachment will remain for years and years.
Roger: Would it be possible for the owner to live with a 1.8 foot
reduction?
Sven: It becomes difficult and HPC needs to look at the entire
thing. I understand what they are saying about the encroachments
and we do not feel we will impede any activities on the alley.
Because of the separation between the different buildings which is
currently ten feet we would propose to make that 6.6 feet and if
we have to subtract another 1.8 feet then I do thing we have a
problem because we have a minimum square footage area that we have
to have on the second floor to have an ADU and right now the net
usable is only 392 square feet and it is real hard to slip
Historic Preservation Committee
Minutes of July 8, 1992
everything down.
Roger: Could the lower part of the building be brought in and the
upper come out.
Sven: No.
Kim: Sven is correct in saying that moving the building over would
not be an easy task. I do not feel the city is contemplating
moving the entire building over. The easiest thing to do would be
to build a new wall at the 1.8 feet and the existing wall taken
off. It would end up creating a two story face on the alley up to
the gable which would lessen the detail on that side of the
building. Having made a site visit and seeing the inside of the
garage what occurs on that side of the space on the inside is
shelving and counterspace. We did not see equipment, mechanical
or concrete walls that would be of great difficulty to move or
remove. That would allow the ADU to remain the same size and
layout.
Ed Grosse: Is there not a requirement on parking 'per space? Does
it help to have space inside the garage?
Sven: He has two existing bedrooms and under the ordinance he does
not have to have parking.
Ed Grosse: If you take 1.8 feet off that, the second car will not
fit.
Kim: It shows a one car garage?
Ed Grosse: Yes it does but I can fit two in and always have.
Roger: I was already to approve this until.I read this and tried
to figure out how we are going to make a finding of the
encroachment.
Don: We do have development review standards that need to be met
and what is being suggested now is to move the lower story wall 1.8
feet back from the alley to be on the property line. It does have
implications regarding development review standards as far as
compatibility because it gives us quite a different kind of
elevation. The Board should address that.
Jake: We don't have any preview over an existing condition so we
can't answer to that letter?
Kim: When Roxanne called in I explained the letter and she said
moving the wall in would not have any impact to the historic
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Minutes of July 8, 1992
structure itself and proceed. With this being a conceptual
approval you should be making suggestions to treatment of the
elevation with the understanding that this section of the roof will
not be there.
Don: Sven has already said moving the garage over would further
reduce the separation between buildings and right now a variation
is being asked for that.
Kim: At that point we would have to discuss impacts and
compatibility with the historic structure.
Jake: The minimum separation between buildings needs to be five
feet.
Sven:. We have 6.6.
Jake: We don't have move ability on this so are choices are to
move the entire garage and have less distance between the buildings
or build a smaller building.
Sven: My opinion was to leave the encroachment and where do you
draw the line on building separation. From the balcony you would
have less than two foot separation. If we have to give up the
encroachment our compromise would be to get a variance for the
separation. We would be asking for that variation per the final.
Don closed the public hearing.
Committee Member Comments
Karen: Any rented space under 400 feet is small and close and they
need storage. Storage already exists downstairs in the garage in
the 1.8 feet and we are being asked to take that away. Bicycles
etc. may be added to the alley. The 1.8 feet is not doing damage
to the alley regarding fire trucks, exits and trash pickup. I feel
that it should be kept. I recommend that we make a finding that
the encroachment should be left as it is.
Kim: I will forward the comments to the Engineering Department.
I would make the comment that the garage space should be reserved
for the owner of the house.
Sven: It is not designated for the ADU. This is a cottage infill
ADU.
Roger: Those units are very important. We have an existing
structure since 1950 and not historical and has been used. It was
a ski shop at one time and it would seem to me that we will be
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Minutes of July 8, 1992
presented with more of these in the future.
Jake: We cannot grant a variation for in between the
because it is not a landmark.
buildings
Roger: Since this is an existing building the HPC could find that
in our opinion it is perfectly all right to leave the building as
it is and put the addition on and not have to reduce it.
Kim: The parcel is landmarked but the building is specifically
non-historic.
Sven: I thought since the parcel was landmarked you could grant
variations.
Kim: Yes. Roxanne is saying that she would recommend approval of
this but with this new info from the engineering department it has
to be moved at least to the property line. You could then make the
finding that the extra five feet could be granted and Roxanne is
recommending that you do so.
Roger: The design, mass and scale is compatible.
Don: I will sum up: Ail of the development review standards have
been met and in my opinion if the existing level were moved in from
the alley to move the 1.8 foot encroachment without redesign of the
north elevation to keep the scale would not be historically
compatible. I would recommend that we seek a way to keep the
encroachments as they are and have the newer setback to the
property line.
Kim: Ask the engineering to reconsider.
Don: The engineering department is not taking the individual case
into consideration. This is a corner building and the end of a
block which makes a bit difference in terms of ingress and egress
and the existing encroachment does not interfere with any of the
activities which have to occur.
MOTION: Roger made the motion that HPC grant conceptual
development approval finding that the development review standards
have been met and finding that the setback and parking (one space)
variations are more compatible in character with the designated
landmark than would be in accord with dimensional requirements.
Our finding to the Engineering Dept. is that we would recommend
that the building would remain as situated on the site without any
reduction in size because any reduction in size would make this
building less compatible historically with the existing landmark;
second by Karen. Ail in favor, motion carries.
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Minutes of July 8, 1992
Jake: I also'feel this requires a variation in the height of the
accessory building which is limited to twelve feet and this will
go above that.
Kim: The cottage infill ordinance allows for variations or special
setbacks to be granted and height limitations. It states that the
maximum heights for detached accessory dwelling units in the R-6
zone may be varied on the rear 1/3 of the parcel, maximum height
shall not exceed 16 feet. Sven is very aware of that.
Roger: This is something to bring up at a worksession.
Sven: We need to resolve our application for final approval as to
what has to occur.
Don: We granted conceptual development as far as we can and the
encroachment issue has to be resolved. If you are obliged to move
the entire thing over there might be other alternatives to a
balcony such as french door or french balcony.
Mr. Grosse: The sliders would alter the victorian appearance that
we are trying to achieve.
MOTION: Don made motion to adjourn; second by Karen.
favor, motion carries.
Ail in
Meeting adjourned at 7:00 p.m.
Kathleen J. Strickland, Chief Deputy Clerk
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