HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.hpc.19911113HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE
Minutes of November 13, 1991
Meeting was called to order by chairman Bill Poss with Joe
Krabacher, Don Erdman, Les Holst, Glenn Rappaport, Jake Vickery,
Roger Moyer, Karen Day and Martha Madsen present. Karen and Martha
refrained from voting but entered into the discussions.
MOTION: Don made the motion to approve the minutes of October 23,
1991 as amended; second by Roger. All in favor, motion carries.
17 QUEEN STREET MINOR DEVELOPMENT - SITE PLAN AMENDMENT
Roxanne: There is no one here to present the project and the
applicant knew that the item was scheduled.
MOTION: Don made the motion to table 17 Queen to new business item
D; second by Roger. Ail in favor, motion carries.
Les: I have a statement. The trees that they told us they would
be cutting down for the driveway are not on their land. I feel
this should be tabled.
533 E. COOPERt MINOR DEVELOPMENT - WINDOW MODIFICATION
Roxanne: This is a minor development for window modifications on
the south and east elevation of the national registered Bowman
Block. Staff is recommending approval with the condition that the
applicant revise the drawings to indicate that the large east
elevation replacement window design be compatible with the vertical
proportion of the historic windows.
Vinnie Partika, contractor of project: After I received the
comments from Roxanne I did some additional drawings. I scaled
the window on the east elevation down to line up with the mullion
down below. Alternate #1 is a large pane of glass and alternate
#2 would be divided with a mullion. The window will not open.
Dividing it up would give a more vertical appearance to match what
is on the existing structure. On the south side, the alley side
I tried to match the windows on the side which were long and tall.
I ended up putting in two operable casement windows. The one on
the left has to provide egress.
Roger: Staff had no problems with these windows.
addition put on?
When was the
Vinnie: Probably sometime in the late 50'so
Karen: Is there a reason why you wouldn't do a victorian style on
the addition to match the existing?
Vinnie: You are referring to the double hung. I tried to make the
changes minimal to what was already existing.
Historic Preservation Committee
Minutes of November 13, 1991
Karen: On the south side, the alley side of the building the end
of almost every apartment was glass. What prompted you to make
those windows smaller?
Vinnie: For aesthetic reasons. The pattern in the glass did not
fit with anything in the interior and exterior of the building.
The windows right now run from floor to ceiling single pane glass
and there is an energy efficiecy to consideration. There is also
a safety consideration. This was an apartment and office space and
it is being turned into two apartments.
Jake: I would like to make the comment of possibly raising the
head of the window on the existing brick portion of the building,
east elevation. Also setting up a window motif on the east side
and taking it around to the back side trying to keep a rhythm
going.
Glenn: I would also support raising the head of the window up as
Jake suggested.
Donnelley: I tend to agree. Raising the head so that it is
consistent with the head of the windows around the corner and also
that would make the whole window bay vertical rather than
horizontal.
Roger: In this case I do not think the windows need to be more
vertical because it is an addition and was not meant to copy. And
if you walk in the alley the apartment on the right has windows
that do not match.
Karen: Is this our opportunity to start making this building
better on the back side and the east side just because it is an
important building and one of the few remaining victorians
downtown?
Jake: I think it is and it is easy to make the finding that the
existing addition is very much a detraction from the historical
resource. There is the owners opportunity to create something that
is more thoughtful and more organized visually. Making it visually
quieter and have its own identity and not replicate.
Karen: The worst part about the addition is the windows. The
windows suggested detract from the architecture of the building.
MOTION: Roger made the motion that HPC grant minor development
approval for 533 E. Cooper Street based on submitted drawings
alternate #1 and alternate #3. Alternate #1 shows the east window
single fixed pane of glass to extend up to the head height of the
original victorian windows. Both drawings must be submitted to
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Minutes of November 13, 1991
Staff prior to the issuance of a Building permit; second by Les.
All in favor, motion carries.
Glenn: We should advise Vinnie that he has a choice on the east
window regarding the mullion.
Glenn will be monitor.
201 E. MAIN STREET - MAIN STREET BAKERY - FRONT ENTRY AIR LOCK
Roxanne: Main Street Bakery is loosing heat and the owners do not
wish to go another winter. People line up and keep the door open.
They need some kind of airlock system. Two proposals have been
presented for consideration: one is a clear vinyl and fabric
system and the other is wood and glass. This is the only terrace
style structure found in Aspen. Staff is concerned that the more
permanent solution does not respect necessarily the architecture
and that the architecture cannot read through the transparency.
If it is blocked off it is changing the visual character that the
building projects to the street. The Planning office ended up
recommending either the vinyl and fabric airlock proposal due to
its reversibility or a fully transparent glass enclosure. Both
must be utilized only in the winter months.
Bill Dinsmore and Sally Barnett, owners: We also added another
design which is the wainscot and glazing which would be temporary
in the winter as well.
Roxanne: Glenn an I talked with Bill and the thought was brought
up of relocating the front entrance in the winter months to the
east door. The applicant decided that wouldn't be conducive. The
porch encroaches into the public right away.
Bill Dinsmore: The Bldg. Dept. had a problem with the door opening
onto a step. An air lock only works properly if you can close the
one door before opening the next.
Roger: They would loose the space where the cookies are displayed.
Jake: What about utilizing a fixed door.
Roxanne: The Main Street bakery contributes vitality to the street
edge and moving the entrance doesn't really work and it takes away
from the front entrance and would also look like the bakery was
closed. According to the guidelines if you are going to do a porch
enclosure it has to be transparent.
MOTION: Joe made the motion that HPC grant minor development
approval for 201 E. Main in accordance with the recommendation in
Historic Preservation Committee
Minutes of November 13, 1991
the memo for the vinyl and fabric airlock or fully transparent
glass enclosure. Either must be fully reversible and utilized only
during the winter months. Revised plans to be submitted to Staff
and approved prior to the issuance of a building permit; second by
Roger.
Sally Barnett: That means to me no wainscotting in the front and
I feel we should talk about that because I feel nervous about the
safety if it is glass floor to ceiling.
Roxanne: Could it be tempered glass above and plexie glass below.
Jake: The entire thing could be tempered.
Roger: Has Staff checked with the Bldg. Dept. to see if this is
allowed and if the wainscotting is removable?
Roxanne: The Bldg. Dept. has not responded yet and the wainscotting
is removable.
Glenn: It would be to their benefit to take it down when the
weather gets better. I find that the wainscotting is compatible
with the building. I would vote for it even if it was permanent
due to the necessity. If the scale of the wainscotting is kept to
a couple of feet the doors would be visible and you would know what
is going on.
Bill: I think the wainscotting is a stronger solution and would
be in favor of the motion if it included the wainscotting and a
definition of the winter months November through April.
AMENDED MOTION: Joe amended his motion to allow for the
wainscotting as presented on the sketch A2 and that the winter
months would be defined as November through April or less; second
by Roger.
AMENDED MOTION: Bill: I would also be in favor of relocating the
door to a north south orientation that would swing back against the
fixed door that is there now so that it is not seen. It would be
in alignment with the last mullion and open against the back and
would have the flow that is necessary for egress. Joe amended his
motion; second by Roger. All in favor except Jake. Motion
carries.
Roxanne: No new door is visible from the street edge.
Bill: That is correct.
Bill Dinsmore: What about another door of canvas floppy where the
Historic Preservation Committee
Minutes of November 13, 1991
door is shown down just in case the Bldg. Dept has a problem with
the door. I am not going to be able to put a door there because
it doesn't come onto a landing but they may consider a fabric.
Bill: Even if that is so I feel it should be aligned and not
visible from the street. That would give a more transparent look
to it.
Roxanne:
sheet.
He is saying in addition to that have a clear vinyl
Glenn: They make a light weight metal frame with a clear plastic
window. I would be willing to allow flexibility to work out with
the monitor.
Jake: I felt that
historical resource.
it is a hardship.
the work on the porch detracted from the
I do not support enclosing of porches unless
533 E. MAIN - ST. MARY'S CHURCH - ELEVATOR TOWER
CONCEPTUAL DEVELOPMENT - PUBLIC HEARING
Chairman Bill Poss opened the public hearing.
Roxanne: Certificate of mailing was received. A site visit was
held today at 4:00 in which most of the members of HPC were
present. The first design standard deals with character
compatibility and Staff's concern is the location of the elevator
tower, it is highly visual. It is in a prominent elevation of St.
Mary's church which is eligible for the state register of historic
places. The only reason it is not eligible for the national
register is due to the 1966 front porch addition which is
considered to be incompatible architecture. A massing model is to
be presented. The tower is large and detailing somewhat elaborate
to be considered compatible in character to the landmark. We feel
that the proposal has not met the first development standard. The
second standard deals with the proposed development reflection on
the character of the neighborhood. We considered the neighborhood
to be the commercial core historic district and we have looked at
elevator towers in the past on the Elks bldg. and the Wheeler opera
house. Both those towers are smaller and they are not as
elaborate. The third standard deals with the cultural value. It
is our opinion that this particular proposal does not enhance the
cultural value due to visual impacts and change in character. The
final standard deals with the architectural integrity and we feel
the proposal does not meet this standard due to the issues
regarding standard #1, its size and the competing architectural
detail to the rest of the structure. We feel it should be much
more sympathetic and quieter to the landmark. Partial demolition
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Minutes of November 13, 1991
standards need to be met at final. We are recommending tabling to
a date certain and continue the public hearing to allow the
applicant time to restudy all issues that Staff has brought up.
Bracken Raleigh - representing Ted Guy and Associates for St.
Mary's Church: We feel the design as presented is compatible, it
has a flat roof and following the character of the building. In
relationship to the other buildings with towers I measured the
Elk's tower and it is 16 x 21 and this tower is 14 x 22. The
Wheeler Opera House is smaller in size but taller. The church
feels that they need handicapped access and a way to get coffins
up to the upper level. They also have a donor. Due to the view
planes, the north east and south east side of the building were
felt to be inappropriate for the tower, it would also impede onto
the sidewalk. The alter is in the back of the church with the
sacristy. The detailing is proposed to be the same detailing in
the corbaling of the window brick relief as the existing building.
Ted Guy: We did investigate alternate locations inside the
building before we came to the conclusion that there was no place
in the structure that would allow this size of an elevator. The
roof is flat and there was concern whether the tower should be more
subdued than is proposed at the pre-application meeting.
Bracken: Elevators, in order to meet UBC have to have 12 feet
minimum inside clear dimension of the shaft of a two hour
noncombustible material.
Donnelley: Why does the vestibule have to be so big?
Ted Guy: The vestibule on the upper level has to be the same size
as the vestibule on the lower level. You could come straight out
of the elevator on the upper level but it can't be done on the
lower. We do not know the cost of a custom elevator but could
check prices. We picked the standard size.
Les: Massing is my concern.
Church representative: The elevator cannot go to the back of the
building on the alley because the sacristy is there. You can't
have someone go out onto the altar.
Roger: On the new structure added to the church are you proposing
to use the same bricks that are currently there or a different
brick to show that the structure was built at a different time?
Ted Guy: At this time our intent is to use the same brick or get
as close as we can to it. It is our feeling that it should not be
a different color or different material. Look like it belongs with
Historic Preservation committee
Minutes of November 13, 1991
the church.
Roger: There is a philosophy that an addition to an historic
structure should indicate that it is an addition.
Ted Guy: I feel it is important that the addition should look like
it is part of the structure and compatible.
Roger: The detail seems a little too involved as the church is
not.
Ted: We only used the detailing that is found elsewhere in the
church. If the feeling is that there is too much we can subdue it.
Donnelley: The tower is four square and with the reduction it
might be rectangular and slightly reduced in one dimension to
reduce the impact of the element. I can think of numerous ways in
which the brick and same mortar can be used but perhaps use blind
windows that are rectangular and do not replicate in any way the
detailing of the existing building. That might be very important.
Replication of the window bays and detailing is definitely the
wrong way to go.
Les: I can accept this location but I also feel very strongly that
the brick should be the same or as close to the original as
possible. My problem is the verticality and massing. It is too
strong. Possibly soften it up a little.
Glenn: There are ways to subtly manipulate the details. You could
change the elements to wood although I realize I would be in the
minority regarding that issue. Regarding the vestibule if there
was a front to back door opening situation so that possibly you
could enter on the west side. There needs to be some break between
the two structures.
Joe: I am concerned at this point with the massing as opposed to
the detailing. The location is a given by default. Maybe there
is a more profile elevator. In terms of the vestibule that is what
the church needs, handicapped access and the ability to bring the
coffins up. I would like to see it a little smaller but if not I
would find that that standard has been met. Consistent with
character of neighborhood I would find has been met but the final
detailing would determine that. I also feel it does not detract
from the cultural value, it doesn't enhance it but on the other
hand we are helping the church stay there as a church. Regarding
the architecture integrity it doesn't diminish or detract.
Glenn: The ideal would be to have the entry off of the north
Historic Preservation Committee
Minutes of November 13, 1991
elevation.
Jake: The location seems to be where it needs to be. I don't have
trouble with the size due to the size of the existing church. The
architecture needs to be quieter and simpler and possibly smaller
openings. The walls might work better as a connecting link if they
were brought in narrower so that there is a recess between the
tower.
Roger: The front entry meets the standards. I don't have a
problem with the size of the elevator tower but also agree that it
needs simplified.
Bill: I agree this is the correct location for the function that
the church has. Possibly the connector would look better if it
didn't have the upper level window. I have a different approach
to this, the thought that it should be a little larger than
smaller. If it had more presence on the side by moving it another
bay along the west face it would take on the character of being an
addition to the building instead of being a small addition. I
would prefer the brick also and detailing should be more simplified
and not attempt to replicate the arches. A blind window motif or
detailing of the brick would be much more compatible and simplify
the corbaling. If you landscape around with trees it would soften
it up.
Jake: One option would be to move the elevator against the
existing church. That would reduce the intrusion on the open
space.
Ted: The negative to the two bays is that you loose the natural
light coming in the windows. There is a consistency that the
location is right and the use of similar brick is preferred but the
details should be simplified.
Donnelley: One concern is that there is much more detailing in
this addition than in the church. It makes it look busier than
the original building and therefore is not subservant to it.
Ted: Does everyone feel that the structure needs a flat roof or
the use of possibly a sloping roof to calm it down a little. You
would end up with a simple form.
Bracken: The reason why the door is on the south side was for
security and visibility from the rectory. Also if people used the
elevator they would come out onto the court yard and be a part of
the activities.
Glenn: I would support a different roof shape to indicate that it
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Minutes of November 13, 1991
is an addition.
Roxanne: There has been a lot of discussion about massing and the
size of the vestibule. That needs to be addressed in the motion
for restudy.
Bill: I like the front entry cover and it is compatible.
Roxanne: It is an encroachment to the public right-of-way so they
would have to apply for an encroachment license.
Jake: I am uncomfortable for the entrance.
tough design problem. It is the main entrance
should be a statement.
I realize it is a
to the church and
Ted: We need the gables to get people under swiftly due to the
snow. We have two choices, gabled or flat.
Donnelley: There needs to be a correlation between the front and
the addition to indicate they are new.
Ted: It would be nice if the front entry would cover the sidewalk
and if HPC would support that we would request that of the City.
Bill: It is a dangerous corner with those trees and cars. I would
be in support of the safety factor but also without the cars parked
there it would improve the entrance visually to this prominent
building.
MOTION: Donnelley made the motion that HPC table action on the
elevator and entry addition as well as the revised front entrance
to a date certain and continue the public hearing to allow the
applicant time to restudy the proposal and meet the development
review standards with particular emphasis on simplification of the
elevator and vestibule element keeping in mind the materials both
brick and other materials used in the original church but not
necessarily having to follow the strict historical detail that is
exemplified in the building. Also exploring the possibility of
making the front entrance to the church a more significant element
with the possibility of actually increasing the encroachment and
providing a stronger entrance than it is right now. Revised
application must be submitted to the Planning office no later than
two weeks prior to the continued public hearing date, December 11,
1991; second by Roger. All in favor, motion carries.
DISCUSSION:
Glenn: If the Board would find support in pulling the whole
sidewalk out whatever that is.
Historic Preservation Committee
Minutes of November 13, 1991
Roger: The question would be involving the State Highway and City
Council.
Glenn: That sidewalk is what is squeezing the entire front of the
church.
Roxanne: The Pedestrian Plan has looked at neckdowns.
Ted: When we did the neckdowns in Basalt the State did a
compromise to allow it to happen but the city had to take over the
plowing.
17 QUEEN STREET
MOTION: Bill: Since the applicant is not present I would
entertain a motion to remove Item a from old business.
All in favor, motion
Roger: I so move; second by Donnelley.
carries.
210 S. GALENAt ELKS BUILDING, TEMPORARY BUNTING INSTALLATION
Bill: Everyone has read the memo relating to this.
MOTION: Joe made the motion that HPC grant approval of the
temporary bunting for 210 S. Galena; second by Donnelley. All in
favor, motion carries.
SIGNS ATTACHED TO LAMP POSTS, INQUIRY BY PARKS ASSOCIATION
Roxanne: The Parks Association is concerned about the extensive
use of signs on the lamp posts in the city. They wanted to know
if the city had any guidelines regarding placement etc. There is
no real policy and the reason signs are attached to the lamps posts
is to reduce the clutter of posts. The CCLC has looked at this and
has photos of designs they have chosen.
Joe: The signs have to go somewhere.
Roger: The solution is simplification...eliminate the number of
posts.
Bill: I like the idea of having them uniform on the posts and no
having additional posts. As you come down the street it is
cluttered. Having frames around the signs would at least make it
neat.
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Historic Preservation committee
Minutes of November 13, 1991
Donnelley: How many people have complained, he has never bothered
me.
Martha: Now that I see it, it bothers me. There should be a limit
as to what and how much goes on the lamp poles.
Glenn: I would suggest doing the street signs first because if you
start doing every little thing it will look like overkill. I would
recommend street signs only.
MOTION: Glenn made the motion to give direction to the CCLC to
encourage the street signs only to be framed in the manner
presented and that the other signs roam free. Kathy to relay the
message back to CCLC; second by Martha. All in favor, motion
carries.
PROJECT MONITORING
Bill: I would like to recommend that all our meetings be out by
8:00 p.m.
Don: The utilities work is going on at the Meadows.
MOTION: Bill made the motion to adjourn; second by Don. Ail in
favor, motion carries.
Meeting adjourned at 8:30 p.m.
Kathy Strickland, Chief Deputy Clerk
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