HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.hpc.19910313HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE
Minutes of March 13, 1991
Meeting was called to order by chairman Bill Poss with Georgeann
Waggaman, Joe Krabacher, Charles Cunniffe, Les Holst, Glenn
Rappaport and Jake Vickery present. Don Erdman and Roger Moyer
were excused.
CONCEI~TUAL DE~rELOPMENT - CONTINUED PUBLIC ~EARING: 620 W. F,t~T,T,AM
Charles stepped down.
Joe stepped down as
neighbor.
one of his partners is representing the
Roxanne presented the overview of the project as attached in
records (see memo March 13, 1991). At the last meeting general
direction was given to the applicant to restudy the newly
proposed tower element and restudy the over-scale chimney and
breaking up the east and west elevations. Also looking at the
curved windows and to provide a correctly revised massing model
at this meeting. There has not been a reduction in the over
scale chimney which was strongly recommended and with regard to
the material they are proposing cedar shake on the chimneys and
the Board might want to consider brick. Our primary concern
focuses on the tower elements. We question whether the stair
could be moved to the north part of the addition. We feel the
tower becomes the focal point of that particular building instead
of the historic resource which is bypassing the goal of
preservation.
Jan Darrington and Richard Klein presented: To accommodate the
neighbor we have moved it over to the east property line and
giving as much space between it and the neighbor.
Richard: In reference to the fenestration we have simplified the
area of the south elevation. Concerning the chimneys the height
and width have been reduced by more than a foot. There are a
number of steep pitched roofs in the neighborhood which are
typical of a victorian building. The use of materials that are
similar in texture and scale to those used historically are
recommended. In the context of the neighborhood there are a
number of areas where shingles are used and a number of different
roof pitches and also metal roofs were used. We feel the tower
element is a good transition element for the little house to the
building behind.
Chairman Bill Poss opened the continued public hearing.
Ann Ware, neighbor who resides at 624 W. Bleeker (adjacent
neighbor). The size of the addition is still an issue but we
appreciate the attempt to mitigate. The tower element still
needs restudied. There should be a commitment to open space in
the City of Aspen. Elimination of the tower would simplify the
south facade. I also have concern with the size and height of
Historic Preservation Committee
Minutes of March 13, 1991
the addition. When I walk out of the front of my house I see the
"Berlin Wall Affect". I was under the impression that the front
of the cottage was going to be moved forward seven feet and from
what I measured it would be in front of our vestibule and in
front of everything else in the block. Possibly put the parking
place on the other side. The variances are allowing them to
maximize their FAR and I don't feel they have proven that that is
necessary.
Steve Arthur, friend of the Ware family: From Hallam Street
looking directly at the house, the rear addition portion
overwhelms the historic cabin with or without the tower. It
needs to be scaled down in size. The house is within 17 feet of
the rear lot line and they are required to have 20 feet. They
are asking for three feet there and a 4 ft. variance on the
garage. The garage will come within one foot of the lot line.
We feel they have not met any requirements for a variance since
they are supposed to present a special need. The only special
need is so that they can maximize their FAR for a speculative
venture and maximize their profit. On the east side of the house
there is more room and possibly they could center the garage to
break up the "Berlin Wall". If the historic cottage is centered
more on their lot that would break up the wall. We are concerned
with the long line.
Jan: The reason for the rear setback is because we were required
to push the house back in order to get the separation link from
the previous meeting. We are asking for these variances in order
to make that work.
COMMITTEE COMMENTS
Les: My feeling is if they don't get the variance you will have
a monolithic block. There needs to be a change in materials and
a lowering of the pitch in order for it to blend.
Steve Arthur: There are indentations but no major breaks.
Glenn: I am concerned about the rear yard setback variance,
possibly slide the garage over. I still feel the tower element
is a good separation element between the old and new addition.
Georgeann: Looking at the plan possibly the garage could be
moved over and I would like to see that addressed. We need to
consider the neighbors needs.
Jake: I like the tower but when you look at it, it is creating a
two story mass and I feel there are other options. The tower is
exasperating the situation with the neighbor.
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Bill: I am in favor of the proposal and the architect has left
the identity of the historic structure. I agree with Staff that
the tower roof needs lowered. Calling attention to different
materials compounds the problem; compatible materials would be
recommended. If the chimneys had more of a horizontal siding
they would be more compatible to the entire project. I have no
problem with them being wood. I would be in favor of the rear
yard variation if we could give more relief to the west side and
redesigning the stair to allow more relief on the west facade.
Richard Klein: We will look at moving the garage. Again we
rather like the shingle but are willing to look at siding.
Jan Darrington: One concern of the Board is the metal roof and
we can look at making it the same pitch as the house and use
shingles.
Bill: Will they be painted or stained.
Jan: Probably stained to be compatible with the original.
Georgeann: I have no problem with the shingles but they should
be painted similar to the color of the boarding. I am also not
unhappy with the shingles on the chimneys because in both cases
this makes a contemporary statement.
MOTION: Jake made the motion to approve the conceptual
development application as revised for 620 W. Hallam finding that
the development review, partial demolition and relocation
standards have all been met, including a finding that the
variations for parking (reduction of two spaces) and rear yard
setback are more compatible in character. All Final Development
application requirements and relocation bond posting as stated in
the Land Use Regulations shall be adhered to. Other conditions:
1) Tower element be lowered
2)
3)
Shingle roof
Restudy of siding material
4) Bond be posted with the Engineering Department as required
in Sec. 7-602 (D) (4) for relocation.
5)
Detailed preservation plan for cottage materials and
architectural features, including all porch details.
Partial demolition shall not include the removal of any
cottage materials on the facade or other areas currently
exposed that are proposed to remain exposed.
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Minutes of March 13, 1991
6) Existing materials shall be salvaged for reuse on the
historic cottage in particular the newly exposed east and
west elevations.
7)
Detailed site and landscape plan indicating existing
vegetation and front (south elevation) plaza treatment.
Fencing shall be detailed and shall be open in nature.
8) Restudy chimneys and surface materials of chimneys.
9) Restudy to move the original house and garage elements to
the east as much as possible.
Motion was second by Georgeann. Ail in favor, motion carries.
CONCEPTUAL DEVELOPMENT - PUBLIC HEARING - PIONEER PARK, LOT 1
Charles reseated.
Joe stepped down.
Proof of publication will be presented to Roxanne, applicant
forgot affidavit.
Roxanne presented the over-view of the project at attached in
records (see memo dated March 13, 1991). Conceptual development
including detached accessory dwelling unit, partial demolition,
rear yard and side yard setback variations, FAR variation, site
coverage variation for Cottage (detached ADU) and demolition of
(non-historic) detached garage. The application did not deal
with the historic fence and that needs to be addressed. An
encroachment is required for this. Overall the detached dwelling
unit is a good design and we are supportive. The roofline
guideline has been met. Cresting is proposed and according to
photographs it was originally on the house. We are also
recommending a restudy of the bricked in ventilation pipes and
possibly that could be addressed. We are recommending that all
the original doors remain and replacement doors be detailed in
the final application. The south elevation door on the carriage
house is inappropriate and appears colonial. We are also
recommending that the original windows stay and storm windows
should be interior. The scale and verticality of the new
proposed windows are excellent. The brick arched lentils should
be eliminated from the addition on the east and west first floor
rear elevation. Representation of porch material is required at
final. The metal railing proposed needs to be restudied,
possibly a simple wood railing. The internal garden wall is
proposed to be brick and metal and we find it incompatible and
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out of place. We are also recommending since this house was
painted that it continue to be painted. A bond and a detailed
engineering report should be included. The demolition standards
have not been addressed and that needs to occur.
Les Kaplan: I intend to be the partner of the present owners of
the existing house. I will go over the problems of the existing
structure and what our rehabilitation objectives are and what the
five fundamental elements are of our design approach are to the
project. What we do not have is a step by step detailed
presentation of everything that we are going to be doing as it is
in the packet. For the record everything that we have in the
application that deals with the specific design elements be
incorporated in the records as being proposed for this conceptual
application even if it doesn't come up.
Roxanne: Your application presented in each packet is part of
the record.
Les Kaplan presented problems association with existing
structures, rehabilitation objectives, fundamental design
elements, as attached in records (page 8 of HPC application for
conceptual review of significant historic development). We do
not need any variation at all on site coverage or Floor area in
order to accomplish this project other than those variations
which could be necessary to include the cottage infill project.
*Slide show of existing elevations and proposed elevations for
all four sides presented at the meeting.
Les Kaplan: There was a cupula on the house.
Les: The mansard roof is the orchestrating feature in this
project that differentiates between the old and new.
Bruce Sutherland, architect: The parapet existed around 1950 and
when it was discussed nobody on the Board liked the rounded shape
and that is why we have what we have here. On the west side of
the house the six basement windows can only be seen in the
courtyard. We would still like to keep the cresting and adds a
level of class to this house. Our goal is to take the metal flu
pipes and build a smaller chimney. On the doors we are proposing
a french type door and plain. We will submit light fixtures for
approval. We are asking for no FAR increase over what is
existing today and no site coverage than what exists today. In
the event we do a cottage infill we are asking some relief on the
site coverage.
Chairman Bill Poss opened the public hearing.
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Mary Martin: I approve of the plan and support keeping the
cresting.
Sally Roach, neighbor: The plan is very excitable and they are
doing an excellent job.
Mr. Stranaberg: I live directly across the street from Pioneer
Park and I heard Mr. Kaplan say this was going to be a meeting
place. Is this going to be sold as a residence.
Les: It will be a residence and not a meeting place.
DISCUSSION OF THE 18 CONDITIONS OF LOT 1 - PRESENTED BY ROXANNE
Roxanne: Regarding condition #1 on the AUDunlt, it should be
tabled until the numbers are figured out. The demolition
standards have not been met for the garage. The Planning Office
is preparing an amendment to the code to allow the demolition of
non-historic structures on parcels within historic districts to
not have to meet all the standards for demolition.
Bruce Sutherland: We can meet the standards.
Bill: The Board feels this issue can be worked out.
#2 Detailed landscape plan.
Bill: The applicant had agreed to submit a detailed landscape
plan at final.
Georgeann: I would like the terraces addressed.
Jake: I would like the landscape treatment in front of the
basement windows to be addressed.
#3 Encroachment license for the wrought iron fence.
Bill: They are required to do an encroachment and the applicant
has agreed to do so.
#4 Cottage: Reduced height and elimination of the bay window.
Roxanne: This issue will be addressed at a later date.
#5 Parapet of carriage house addition remains the same as
existing.
Bruce Sutherland: We will do it as it was.
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Bill: The arch will remain and be restored.
#6 Cresting remain and be restored.
Bruce: We agree on that issue.
#7 Restudy, reduce bricked in ventilation pipes.
Bruce: We will do that and keep them small.
#8 Original doors remain, replacement door detailed in Final.
Bruce: We agree on this issue.
Les Kaplan: The only original door is the front door. In our
renovation of the house we would like to replace the east door.
#9 Restudy/revise south elevation carriage house door.
Bruce: We agree to do.
#10 Representative photos of all lighting fixtures at Final.
Bruce: We agree to do.
#11 Original windows be retained; storms used only on interior.
Research for appropriate manner of window preservation and
deteriorated sills identified in Final plan.
Bruce: We agree.
#12 Eliminate brick arched lintels from rear addition.
Bruce: We like what we designed and do not want to eliminate the
brick arched lintels but are willing to restudy them.
Roxanne: The intent is to simplify the windows so that the
historic element reads through.
Georgeann: We need to discuss whether windows should be exact
copies or slightly different.
Charles: On Crossroads Drug that issue came up and the windows
were very similar but when you got up close they were different.
Bill: If Bruce would restudy and come up with a similar window
that we could look at at Final.
Mary Martin: The Committee needs to restudy what is appropriate
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in reference to windows.
Les Kaplan: The arched windows keep a harmony of design.
#13 Restudy/reduce/eliminate basement level windows and light
wells (light well placement as well).
Glenn: The windows are behind the fencing and low and they are
on the east and west elevation. They will not be perceived from
the street and I am not opposed.
Georgeann: I am not opposed but want to see at Final the exact
details of the window wells.
Jake: Possibly a restudy of the rhythm of the windows or the
lentils.
Bruce: I am willing to restudy but we prefer to keep them.
#14 South elevation carriage house dormer - restore to original
central position (one)
Georgeann: Two dormers are fine.
Roxanne: If two are going to be used they should be different.
#15 Representative sample of porch materials at Final.
Bruce: We will provide that information.
#16 Metal railing on east stoop to be restudied.
Georgeann: We were not clear on the railing as to whether it
should be wood or metal.
Bruce: I think we would like to see wood.
Bill: The concensus of the Board is a wood railing on the east
stoop.
#17 Clarification on break in materials on carriage house and
addition.
Bruce: We will provide that.
#18 Eliminate brick/metal interior garden wall.
Les: What is required due to the swimming pool?
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Bruce: I believe 6 feet.
Georgeann: A simplified cresting would be appropriate. I would
like to see the brick part lower and longer cresting at the top
and keep it as low as legally possible. I don't want it to
become a powerful element.
Bill: I might recommend that we restudy the brick metal interior
garden wall.
Bruce: We are trying to reduce its impact on the outside and on
the inside it is five feet. By the time the landscaping is
complete it will be around 4 feet.
Glenn: Functionally to make it more private due to the pool etc.
the fence is a nice proposal.
Bill: Possibly lower the brick a little.
#19 Bond and detailed Engineering report for excavation
structural work on the main house.
Bruce: We have no problem with providing that.
#20 Detailed preservation plan for materials and architectural
features.
Bruce: We can provide that.
#21 Compliance with Demolition Standards found in Section 7-602 B
#22 Detailed preservation plan for historic materials and
architectural features.
#23 Existing wrought iron fence on the perimeter of the property
would be repaired in place.
#24 Massing model of how the other buildings relate.
#25 Exact material representation be given.
Roxanne: The material for the addition has not be addressed.
They are proposing brick and Staff recommends that in this case
brick is appropriate.
Bill: The existing addition that is going to be taken down is
wood. I feel it is up to the applicant. In the applicants favor
he is trying to create a presence of permanence that this
building has and the brick does do that.
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Glenn: I can go either way.
Bill: Possibly Staff and the
the applicant and work out the
and old.
monitor could work together with
details of compatibility of new
Georgeann: The front of the garage has been pulled out about
three feet but the gap between the carriage house and the garage
is very tiny now and it will not be big enough to read as a
separation. I would like the architects to restudy that a
little. Also the steps in the back of the house seem over
powering for the back of the house. Doesn't seem in keeping.
Bill: What does the committee feel about the steps.
Bruce: We can restudy that issue.
Roxanne: · The Board will have to table the detached accessory
dwelling unit.
Bill: The Committee in general is in favor of this conceptual
design.
Bill entertained a motion:
Georgeann: # 12, 14, 18 of Roxanne's conditions are restudy and
#4 is on hold and #7 is to reduce.
Chairman Bill Poss entertained the motion.
MOTION: Les made the motion to approve the Conceptual
Development application as proposed for 442 W. Bleeker St.
finding that the Development Review Standards have been met,
Demolition and Partial Demolition standards will be met at final.
The applicable Secretary of Interior Standards have been met.
All final development application requirements shall be met per
code. Conditions placed upon this approval as discussed at this
meeting 1 thru #25 as revised with the appropriate re-study for
#12, #14 and #18 be a part of this approval. Additional restudy
of the rear stairs be included as a condition of this approval.
#4 of the conditions is tabled.
Motion second by Georgeann. Ail in favor, motion carries.
Bill: The HPC encourages the cottage infill that is proposed to
take place and the Board recommends whatever method to do that in
the way of site coverage variation. (straw poll taken and passed)
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PIONEER PARK, LOT 2, ADVISORY ONLY
Roxanne: This is regarding the advisory review of Lot 2. Staff
finds that the design is contrary to the goals the applicant told
Staff he was trying to achieve with the new development. Its
exuberant mock Queen Anne styling competes significantly with the
adjacent National Register structure. Due to the tremendous
number of formal decorative elements that these demand attention
and detract from the adjacent historic resource. This is quite a
challenge for the HPC to give advisory review of a victorian
revival structure, one that is compatible in the west end and
takes its que's from the historic resource yet doesn't compete
and doesn't try to be deceptive in age. The Board needs to
carefully consider the perpetual impact this design will have on
Pioneer Park and does this particular level of victorian revival
diminish the integrity of the west end, of the neighborhood
context and of the adjacent historic resource. HPC needs to
work together with the applicant and come up with a solution.
Les Kaplan: We have said the Pioneer Park project should be the
dominant structure on the block. Whatever we do on lot 2 that
will be the case by virtue of the way the trees surround the
property on Lot 2. Lot 2 is much less exposed than Lot 1. The
house on Lot 1 has the capability to stand on its own. On Lot 2
we have set back this house four or five feet and it is set
within the trees. We have maintained as much open space between
the two houses. The style is victorian and we are open to
comments by the HPC even though this is advisory.
Charles: I wonder why we don't have a model as we have had
models for other advisory cases. We are to study scale and
massing relative to the Pioneer Park building and I don't think
we can do that properly without a model to show how the two
buildings relate.
Les Kaplan: What is advisory review. There is a set of
covenants on this property which indicate the HPC is to have
advisory review. I have had this discussion with the City
Attorney in the hope of clarifying what advisory is. He
interprets advisory to mean once I have my plans ready to submit
to the Bldg. Dept. I have to run them by the HPC. Roxanne stated
that advisory means that I have to submit everything as if it was
a mandatory review but the extent of comment that the Board has
is only advisory. So I don't know.
Bill: In past reviews it has always been easier for us to review
with massing models etc. when we are dealing with massing and
siting. That is why we ask for models.
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Les Kaplan: A model is an expense. If the intent of an advisory
meeting is to maximize the amount of committee and public input,
then I would ask why a public hearing isn't necessary for
advisory review and I would request that we conduct this advisory
review the same way you would conduct a mandatory review and have
a public hearing for it. I would also ask that at the conclusion
of the advisory review in the same way you do a mandatory review
you pass a resolution indicating that you have reviewed this on
an advisory basis and what the findings are. Keep it exactly the
same way. If the requirements on me are the same then I ask that
the procedure be the same.
Bill: We don't have a model but we want to review it and Les
Kaplan wants our comments so we should do that. We are here to
work together and work this out.
Les Kaplan: What is expected of me at advisory review and what
do I expect from the Committee as a result of the advisory
review?
Bill: It is not spelled out in our code as to how we do advisory
review.
Jed Caswall, City Attorney: There is no provision under existing
ordinances that #1 provides for advisory review or, #2 defines
what advisory review should be if in fact an application is
submitted for advisory review, so I cannot direct you to any hard
and fast rules and guidelines. In the absence of specific
provisions it would be my judgment that what you should do is do
what you feel is reasonable under the circumstances to conduct
what you believe is advisory review. There were covenants that
were executed on this property pursuant to previous landuse
approval which defines the authority of the Historic Preservation
Committee in regard to development on Lot 2 as follows: Prior to
any new construction on Lot 2 the owner thereof shall submit to
the City of Aspen Historic Preservation Commission sufficient
information (architectural drawings and the like) so that the HPC
can evaluate the proposed construction and make such
recommendations as it deems appropriate. In this respect the HPC
shall however act and shall be seen as acting only in an advisory
capacity and shall not be in any manor obligatory upon the owner
of Lot 2 to incorporate any recommendations of the HPC into the
proposed construction and the disapproval by HPC of any proposed
new construction of Lot 2 shall be without consequence what-so-
ever. Based upon that language and to address specifically, Mr.
Kaplan felt that the expense of putting together a model was not
warranted so he didn't do it. I wouldn't find that that does any
violence to the covenant that I just read. It states that he
shall submit architectural drawings and the like. I hear the HPC
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saying that it would have been nice to have a model
say that you would require it of him.
Roxanne: Unless the HPC considered that to be
information.
but I can't
sufficient
Bill: We are not dead locked on the model.
Jed Caswall: The key is: It says so that the HPC can evaluate
the proposed construction and make such recommendations that it
deems appropriate. If the HPC feels that based upon the
information presented by the applicant is insufficient to make
recommendations it just should note that. I feel the intent was
to have HPC input and help the applicant design and construct a
structure which would be compatible with the historic nature of
the property.
PUBLIC COMMENT
Mary Martin: I agree with Staff this time and it is
architecturally out of place. If HPC needs help on this one the
neighbors should in fact get together and form a committee to
help. This house has to satisfy the community and this is a
very important property. As you know the people did try to
raise money and buy it. As neighbors we would like to come and
talk about it and subdue the design to some extent.
Chester Firestein: I reside at 407 W. Hallam which backs
directly up to the proposing structure. I would have allot of
comments if there is going to be an official public hearing and
obviously this is not one. Also if notice is to be given to all
people within 300 feet of the project so that there will be an
additional opportunity to make comment. As the public we are
caught in the same kind of bind that the committee is caught. We
need to know what the procedure is going to be so I can make my
comments now or wait for the public hearing.
Bill: We are not required to have a public hearing.
Jed Caswall: If the applicant so desired to
understanding with the HPC to go through a formal
so wishes to do so.
enter into an
HPC process if
Representative for the Weavers: I would have to confer with the
Weaver's council, Bob Hughes. By in large Mr. Kaplan is an
option owner on this lot and the option price is variable. I
know that Les Kaplan intends to abide by the recommendations of
the committee and I know he wouldn't mind meeting with the
neighbors. I could not extend, without having Mr. Hughes here to
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Minutes of March 13, 1991
advise, as to whether we should consent to a public hearing. An
informal meeting with the neighbors offered by Mary Martin is a
good idea. We could offer the house as a place for it.
Bill: There was notice regarding lot 1, and most of the
neighbors are here.
Georgeann: We are bogged down with legalism. Lets give Les our
recommendations and suggestions and invite him if he would like
to come back and show it to us again with changes but it is not
incumbent of him.
Les: We have a great opportunity to give you input that would be
very valid and hopefully you will take some of it under
advisement and we will keep it simple.
Les Kaplan: By advisory the review would be approached as one
meeting and if I want to come back for more advice and respond I
have that option to do so or is there a final stage to the
review.
Jed Caswall: The HPC is willing to give you their comments and
if you want to come back and follow up they are willing to do so.
Bill: We are willing and look forward to working with you.
Bill: There are people here who came to speak.
Chester Firestein: I came to speak but it is confusing to me. I
want the opportunity to speak at the correct forum in which to
make my comments. It is unfair to me to be left in this kind of
dilema. At the beginning of the meeting I was encouraged by Les
Kaplan's offer to cooperate with the Committee and work with the
neighbors and to do allot of things. But unless there is a
format for that and for example if you say the committee will
have a public hearing, it is not authorized to do it therefore it
is within your purview to do apparently according to council. If
you will hold a public hearing at the next meeting then in the
interest of time tonight I will not make this presentation and be
very happy to send copies of it to the committee members and Les
etc. It is unfair to leave public comments in this kind of
limbo.
Jed Caswall: I will render an opinion for the HPC that pursuant
to my understanding of the covenant that by appearing here
tonight and presenting the information that he has presented that
the owner of lot #2 has probably complied with his obligations
that have been set forth in the covenant. If he feels satisfied
after tonight then he not need come back and it would be solely
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within his discretion as to whether or not he wishes to come back
for further comment. If people wish to be heard regarding this
they should speak tonight because this may be their only
opportunity.
Jane Ellen Hamilton, representing Chet Firestein: Is it not true
that the HPC has to make a recommendation in order to conclude
this application.
Jed Caswall: No, because it says that HPC can make such
recommendations that it deems appropriate and they could refrain
from making a recommendation. Potentially what I have tried to
say is that after tonight's meeting that it would be my opinion
that the applicant has met the requirements of the covenant and
there need be no further action what-so-ever on his part.
Jane Ellen Hamilton: I would like the HPC to consider the
consequences of that because if the applicant wakes up tomorrow
morning and decides not to sit down with the neighbors or anyone
else to consider their recommendations he does not have to. He
can go out tomorrow and pull a building permit with the plans
that he has submitted without making a single change because that
is what the deed restrictions read. You need to do two things
tonight #1 Consider the consequences of that, this is a very
historical sensitive project. Anything that is done there will
effect not only the Pioneer Park parcel but the entire west end.
If you give final recommendation tonight you may not like what
you see. #2 There may be some opportunities for you to assume
what some people in the room feel you should have and that is the
ability to have a mandatory review over any part of this parcel
that gets developed. There is some questions whether or not it
was included when it was designated in 1983 as an historic site
and so you may wish to petition City Council to designate the
entire parcel as historic or you may wish to table this and re-
visit among yourself what the consequences are.
Mr. Strenberg: The Weavers own the parcel and they aren't here.
What is the situation, is he going to develop it and sell it to
somebody for the Weavers ?
Jed Caswall:
the developer
the property.
It is my understanding that Mr. Kaplan is here as
of the property on behalf of the Weavers who own
Mary Martin: This is a spec house so there is no owner who says
I want to have that specific house. If Mr. Kaplan will set a
date I will call all interested parties and put a notice in the
paper to discuss the application.
15
Les Kaplan:
Mary Martin:
Les Kaplan:
weeks.
Historic Preservation Committee
Minutes of March 13, 1991
Les: All I can do is make a recommendation to you and we need
that to happen tonight. I would like to see another public
hearing with the neighbors.
Bill: I would suggest a work session.
I am very interested in getting input.
I will contact people.
Can we handle a worksession within the next two
Jake:
Bill:
an obligation to keep the meeting on schedule.
Why can't we handle this now?
We are 1 hr. behind and this could take an hour and I have
Georgeann: We are asking Les Kaplan to come back and he has
agreed to do so.
Jane Ellen Hamilton: Is this a proper way to continue this
not terminate the process?
Jed: There is no designated process and this is a
solution.
Bill: Do I have a motion to table?
and
reasonable
Les Kaplan: We simply have agreed that in the spirit of
exchanging ideas we have decided to table this until we have had
the opportunity to do so.
MOTION: Les made the motion to table the advisory review of
Pioneer Park Lot 2 to a worksession to be scheduled within the
next two weeks; second by Jake. All in favor, motion carries.
CONCEPTUAL DEVELOPMENT - PUBLIC }~2~RING - ASPEN MEADOWS
ACADEMIC & MUSIC/~EHEARSAL
Roxanne Eflin presented the over-view of the project as attached
in records (see memo dated March 13, 1991). Materials will have
to be brought in for final review; landscape plan; fencing etc.
There are issues regarding the fox mound and the walk way that
need to be clarified tonight. We are also recommending that the
roadway width into the chalet area for emergency use only be
reduced to as narrow as possible. The bus drop off area by the
parking lot near the tent be detailed. Bike parking needs to be
16
Historic Preservation Committee
Minutes of March 13, 1991
addressed. If the mound is the correct way to go it should be
reduced in height and pulled away to the south east from the tent
to allow for breathing space between the tent and that the
treatment of the walls be restudied. The treatment of the mound
needs to be addressed also. The berming around the tent needs to
be addressed as to whether it is appropriate or not.
Gideon Kaufman, attorney: The institute has always felt that the
HPC's advisory role of the chalets included all the lodge
buildings including the Kresge bldg. There are now seven lodge
buildings instead of six. That change came about after meetings
with the sub-committee. The sub-committee was concerned about
the proximity of the one building to the health club and to move
the building back away from the health club. The second issue
addressed the health club, in the original presentation that was
made we talked about 1800 sq. ft. of addition to the health club.
After further study we decided to bifurcate and will have one
mens and one ladies locker room. There is no change in the square
footage. On #14 diagram we are enclosing the deck. Another
change has to do with the pro shop drawing #18. One issue raised
was to break up the linear quality of the tennis courts by the
road. We were going to do it with the two stone walls and then
the architect came up with putting a bathroom in that vicinity.
Also the size has increased by 200 feet because in the
transportation study they wanted to encourage bicycles so we will
now have bicycle rentals and needed the extra footage. A
question was made about the intrusion of the tennis court into
the race track. The tennis courts are being moved back to a flat
area that is not historic. We will not intrude into the
historical race track. There was a question concerning open
places for bicycles. We are planning for storage of up to 100
bikes in the parking garage in addition to the regular storage
places. The concept has been addressed and the encouragement.
Fred Smith, architect: Roxanne talked about the width of the
roadways. They are shown as 16 feet per the fire marshal and
there is discussion of reducing them. Level of demolition: We
desire to preserve the location of the buildings, scale and image
of the building and much of the structures that could be saved as
possible. Building 1, 2, 4 are in the same location and 6 is the
existing Kresge bldg. #7, #3, #5 are all new. We are looking at
predominantly wood structures with painted steel forming the
lines of the balconies and decks. The next issue is the dirt
mound next to building #6 today. The idea is to reduce the scope
and scale of that mound to a degree that it will still provide a
separation between the highly textured landscape of Anderson
Park, the natural area and the limited amount of manicured
landscape in front of the new building #7. There will be conifer
and aspen trees planted to pick up the same kind of landscape
17
Historic Preservation Committee
Minutes of March 13, 1991
that is on the rest of the site.
2000 sq. ft. to the restaurant
not force individuals at the facility to go down town.
Chairman Bill Poss opened the public hearing.
Committee member comments in response to the seven items in
Roxanne's memo dated March 13, 1991.
Georgeann: In general we worked very comfortably with the
architect and they have responded to our concerns.
1) Remodeling of the existing Kresge building and new Kresge II
building.
2) Expanded building envelope of the health club.
3) Remodeling and expansion of the restaurant.
4) Parking structure and pro shop
5) Expansion of the tent's backstage and remodeling of seating
area to add 400 seats.
6) New Rehearsal facility
7) Landscape alterations ( berm and mounds added, mounds taken
away, ditch rerouting, tree removal and new plantings)
Georgeann: Regarding #7 at Final we would like to see the
contour or shape of the mound.
Fred Smith: Possibly you would like to see a cross section
rather than a model.
On #14 drawing, the addition of
is reflected. The intent is to
Bill: That would be appropriate.
Glenn: My concern is how the transition is dealt with between
the proposed building and Anderson park.
Bill: Lets discuss the rehearsal facility
Harry Teague: We are creating low seating mounds that go around
the tent around 4 feet high.
Herb Klein, representing Evelyn Leonard Lauder who live adjacent
to the proposed rehearsal facility: We think the design is
appropriate given the acoustic needs. Our concern is the site.
At the Dec. 20th Council hearing, Council chose the easterly
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Historic Preservation Committee
Minutes of March 13, 1991
site. Our concern is the visual intrusion of this site of the
music tent. The tent becomes cramped and secondary. If you put
the facility on the westerly side it won't interfere with the
zone of tranquility for the institute. The sage meadow would
remain open. The east is the inferior site especially from an
historical point of view.
Evelyn Lauder: The draw back is the lack of future opportunity
to sit outside in the shade of the tent on the side where you can
hear better and have shade. The other issue is the funneling of
people between the two berms. I ask you today to move the hall
over to the west especially because the Aspen Institute has no
objection and the MAA has no objection.
Bruce Berger: When you walk up the Roaring Fork Road to the tent
and walking along Gilespie this building will intrude on the view
and it is a detriment to the neighborhood in that respect. The
berming will detract from a lot of serious music listeners
because they bring children etc. and the formalization of outdoor
seating will be lost. Most of the people using the parking lot
enter from the west end of the site and would have to cross to
the east to get to the facility. The intrusion on the view has
been lost to the community.
Harry Teague: This is
addressing issues that
trees.
a very delicate situation and we will be
come up. We will be planting numerous
Bill Martin: In view of the fact that the Institute and the MAA
will take either site, the HPC should take the study position and
find out what are the specific objection to the western site.
The western site provides more of a campus atmosphere and
contains the building.
Perry Harvey: During the conceptual review the east side of the
tent was determined to be the appropriate site. City Council
passed a resolution granting approval of the SPA stating that the
rehearsal hall shall be located to the east side of the music
tent and shall be screened along the eastern MAA property
boundary with a vegetated buffer. During a duly noticed public
hearing it was noted that the rehearsal facility would be on the
east side. We would have to go back to Council, P&Z and amend
the SPA if this Board says it should be on the west. I would ask
the Board if that is in the purview tonight.
Herb Klein: It is within your purview to discuss the site. It
states that all master plan elements shall be reviewed by the
HPC. If you select the west site it goes back to Council and P&Z
and they have the authority to over rule your decision.
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Historic Preservation Committee
Minutes of March 13, 1991
George Vicenzi: We are trying to preserve the tent and the
historic views around the tent. Given those facts the design is
too big. We are loosing site of the historical tent. If the
whole structure was moved to the due east of the existing tent
and the berm reduced all around. That way people coming out of
the tent will have the view of Independence. The berms are
creating impediments to visual lines.
Floyd Mann: I am dismayed. I have gone through this process and
I can't understand why these people didn't speak up at the
beginning.
Perry Harvey: With the absence of my legal council and it is not
in the purview of this commission to review a site planning issue
that has been approved through an spa process. I am afraid of
potential legal challenges and you are sending us down the road
of going back through public noticing, conceptual approval of P&Z
and Council and just from a personal fear it is endangering this
process beyond the council elections and the appointments of a
new city council and putting us back into a master plan with a
council that has no authorship in the master plan process.
Harry Teague: The drawings radiate from the center of the tent
and there would have to be numerous alterations, such as
hallways, ceilings etc. There would have to be significant
design changes.
Jake: We need to review this as presented to us and make our
findings.
Bill: There are real issues from an historic nature that have to
be addressed and at this time I do not feel we are going to get
something out of this committee at this time of night. I would
like to entertain a motion. All the HPC have to be there at the
meeting to make this work.
Georgeann: Does the Board feel the concept on the west site
would be acceptable?
Bill: We are all in favor of the design concept on the west
site.
MOTION: Charles made the motion to table the conceptual
development for the Aspen Meadows academic and music sectors to
March 27th and that we organize as many work sessions as
necessary with P&Z, Council, Planning Dept. Second by Les.
Robert Hart: Our architect will be out of the country as of
Historic Preservation Committee
Minutes of March 13, 1991
March 26th for 10 days.
Gideon: I would like to try the 22nd.
Charles: We could do a special HPC meeting Friday March 22nd.
Jed: I would suggest that you continue the hearing to a date
certain.
Bill: The majority of the Board is in favor of the design
concept.
AMENDED MOTION: Charles amended the motion to continue the
public hearing until Friday March 22, 1:00 p.m.; second by Les.
Georgeann: Lets schedule it for March 21 st 9:00 a.m., Thursday
morning and if we have to we can continue it to another time.
AMENDED AMENDED MOTION: Charles amended his motion to continue
the public hearing and conceptual development , academic and
music portions of the Aspen Meadows to Thursday March 21st 9:00
a.m.; second by Les. All in favor, motion carries.
CONCEPTUAL DEVELOPMENT - PUBLIC ~EARING
RUBY PARK TRA~SIT STATION
Roxanne: The applicant would like to expand the north side of
the terminal northward by approximately 9' plus add a stair to a
new loft space which is to expand into the attic space over the
existing office space. This area will be for personnel use only.
Chairman Bill Poss opened the public hearing.
Gibson & Reno representative: The addition on the north side
would increase the window area.
MOTION: Les made the motion to approve the Ruby Park addition as
presented; second by Jake. All in favor, motion carries.
MOTION: Jake made the motion to adjourn.
Meeting adjourned at 10:00 p.m.
Kathy Strickland, Deputy City Clerk
21