HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.hpc.19901024HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE
Minutes of October 24, 1990
Meeting was called to order by Senior Vice-chairman Charles
Cunniffe with Don Erdman, Les Holst, Glenn Rappaport and Roger
Moyer present. Bill Poss, Jake Vickery, Joe Krabacher and
Georgeann Waggaman were excused.
MOTION: Glenn made the motion to approve the minutes of
September 12, 1990. Second by Roger with all in favor, motion
carries.
MOTION: Don made the motion to add
Avenue, Conceptual Development and
Second by Glenn with all in favor.
to Old Business 210 Lake
continued public hearing.
824 E. COOPER - CONCEPTUAL DEVELOPMENT - PUBLIC HEARING
Charles opened the public hearing.
Roxanne: At the last meeting conceptual approval was tabled with
conditions: A study of massing, look at the link between the old
and new to provide greater relief and provide a massing model.
Also direction was given to simplify the transoms and to restudy
the alley structure with the intent to preserve it. I still have
concerns, this lot is very hard to work with and the cottage is
tiny in scale and it has a couple of older additions in the rear
that are probably expendable but adding on an addition that does
not totally overwhelm this cottage is very difficult. I am not
convinced that the design solution is quite compatible yet.
Barbara Long and Ken Moore, architects presented.
Barbara: The model shows the scale problem that we are already
facing which is, it is totally overshadowed as it is right now.
We took your concerns of trying to preserve the little cottage in
its entirety and keep it separate from the building behind it.
In doing so we tried to create a shadow line between the new and
the old building. We have also decided to add a fence which
creates its on little yard which we feel helps hold this cottage
away from the other building. Roof changes were done on the
dormer and some of the transom windows. We also changed from a
one car garage and flipped it to the other side so we could keep
the shed if that is allowed in the back.
Ken Moore: The cottage is so small and if we could take and
bring the cottage up one foot and drop the level of the house
down one foot so basically the cottage would look like it was two
feet higher giving a little mast to the cottage. We would have
to re-foundation anyway as it is on six by twelve's and rotten.
Roxanne: The idea is to relocate the cottage up on the site,
plus raise it up and lower the additions, so you are doing three
different things.
Historic Preservation Committee
Minutes of October 24, 1990
Ken: We were trying to work with a stepped roof design but it
just didn't work. By bringing it up higher it does give emphasis
to the cottage.
Roger: This proposal shows a distinction between the new and
old.
Roxanne: My concern is the abrupt change between the very small
cottage and a two story addition. I have always favored the
addition not integrated into the roof form of the historic
cottage.
Ken: We have been trying to work with a cascading roof where you
don't see that front gable but our lot is too small.
Don: The south exposure is to the street and presently you have
in a cross gable almost at the south end of the structure and
rather busy angle corners to get whatever view you can. That
calls a lot of attention to the corners and possibly that needs
simplified in moving the cross gable back.
Barbara: Our thoughts were by angling, it softened the impact.
Don: If I were to do this I would do a major cross gable or at
least a dormer on the west side and change the fenestration that
is on the stairs because as you walk up the stairs I would not
want to look right at a building that is ten feet away, I would
rather look at the sky. In the same breath I would tend to put
more of a major gable facing east so that you can look over the
building. There is only ten feet between the buildings.
Barbara: 10 feet between with a five foot setback.
Roxanne: Both buildings are non-conforming.
Glenn: The feeling that I had was to simplify the front. If it
would read as a single gable and moved back it would visually be
downplayed. Raising and lowering does help.
Don: The cross gable is where it is because it has to do a lot
with the plan of the master suite. You could have a dormant
gable end. The building on the east is a horrendous presence.
I do think there are ways of reducing the business of the
southern portion of the addition, the roof. You could have a
chimney and a cricket to balance.
Roger: I think Donnelley's idea of the fireplace, and bring the
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Historic Preservation Committee
Minutes of October 24, 1990
roof back on that side might alleviate a lot of people's concerns
about the mass.
Charles: If you held everything back it would provide enough
relief.
Barbara: I like Glenn's idea of simplifying and you get the same
amount of light.
Roger: When you raise the small cottage what are you going to
set it on.
Ken: We will put in a small foundation wall.
Roger: Sandstone was traditionally used in small cottages so
that the red stone was a the bottom to conseal the concrete from
visually showing. This will come up at final.
Charles: You could possibly use something simpler.
Ken: River rock would work and show a break around it.
MOTION: Don made the motion that the conceptual approval for 824
E. Cooper be tabled until Nov. 14th and that the applicant
restudy the south facade of the addition to simplify and also
increase the difference between its detailing and the historic
building through the addition of more glass perhaps and also
consider a symmetrical scheme that would feature the fireplace
stack and a cricket on the east side of the south facade. Glenn
second with all in favor of motion, motion carries.
DISCUSSION
Glenn: Do we want to mention the raising up and lowering down
version.
Charles: That is in their application.
Roxanne: Will you include heights also.
210 LAKE AVENUE - CONCEPTUAL DEVELOPMENT
Roxanne: At the last meeting 210 Lake Ave. was tabled with the
direction that a massing model be created and that a restudy of
the location of the addition as well as the scale of the addition
be accomplished and that a field study happen, which did.
Bracken Raleigh: Further study of relocation of addition proved
pointless. There was concern of privacy at the last meeting.
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Historic Preservation Committee
Minutes of October 24, 1990
The model demonstrates the addition. At the last meeting
everyone had problems with the symmetry and in that building the
only thing that is symmetrical is the center window due to the
fact that the roof lines are strong enough to carry an element.
When we get back to this point we need the head room for the
stairs coming up. The ceiling right now is less than 6 ft. and
in the center of Nancy's bedroom a six foot person can't even
stand up. Low head room problem. I tried to continue the
existing hip line of the roof up and make the pitch the same on
both sides so that we did have a continuation in the sense of
flow from one existing building to the new part. We are only
adding 537 sq. ft. and most of the square footage is happening on
the upper level. Making a 100 sq. ft. bedroom into approximately
400 sq. ft. At the last meeting the green house was discussed as
not being CO'd but Nancy has brought the permit and the CO for
the greenhouse/hot tub.
Glenn: I went on the site visit and to address the issue of the
neighbors coming in and saying the area needed cleaned up I
didn't find any of that to be true. The area is quite charming
and the only lived in looking place. That issue is not an issue
to me.
Don: The Hallam Lake ESA ordinance will be enacted prior to this
being submitted for a building permit so I trust the applicant is
aware of the provisions.
Roxanne: I don't think the ESA effects this.
Don: Looking at the house they are trying to solve the basic
circulation problems. The way the master bedroom is right now is
like camping in the attic. I don't feel they are asking for too
much. Unfortunately the roofs get complicated.
Bracken: We increased the dining room space and made it a little
larger and made the bathroom larger. We are trying to take out
the washer/dryer out of the diningroom.
Roxanne: I remain concerned about the expanse of metal roofing.
Bracken: The house next door has twice as much roof.
Roxanne: And it is twice as bad.
Charles: We need to know how the addition gets distinguished
from the general house and the effect that it has on the overall
balance of the original house as an historic house.
Historic Preservation Committee
Minutes of October 24, 1990
Roger: What they are doing is well within their right and I have
no trouble with the massing. Changes over the years often happen
and should happen in a community where not everything is planned.
I am not opposed to a metal roof and originally the house had a
metal roof. There is also an economic factor in roof choices.
Don: From a technical standpoint wood roof requires so much
flashing in relation to the amount of wood with all these changes
that a metal roof might be quieter in the long run. The more
complex the roof gets the more flashing you will need.
Roger: It would be nice if the roof could be a darker color.
Nancy Oliphant: That is a good idea and I dislike that color.
Charles: We always have a problem on how you let an historic
property grow.
MOTION: Glenn made the motion to grant conceptual development
approval for 210 Lake Avenue as proposed with the condition that
you continue to study the complications in the roof treatment and
that they are resolved in the simplest way possible. Second by
Roger with all in favor, motion carries.
DISCUSSION
Bracken: We had talked about taking the green house sloped roof
area and flattening it off on the back wall so that we could
eliminate the 60 or 70's green house addition. Just square that
area which is identified in the model.
The drawings should represent what is in the model at final.
208 1/2 E. MAIN STREET - MINOR DEVELOPMENT
Les present for 208 1/2 E. Main St.
Roxanne: This is a little out building of 273 sq. ft. and is
right now used for storage right behind Gracy's. Glenn has
always been very interested in adapting these little alley
buildings for special uses. Glenn has a lease on the building.
The applicant would like to turn this into an office. None of
the foot print has changed.
Roger: Does this sit on the ground.
Glenn Rappaport, applicant: Yes, it is on the ground.
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Historic Preservation Committee
Minutes of October 24, 1990
Roxanne: The applicant wa~ts to change around the entrance and
add windows onto the alley. My concern is the corrugated
translucent material that Glenn is proposing to use to screen at
the alley. It is used, Graeme Means used it at his alley on the
back of his wall and it does look like alley material.
Roger: What is the purpose of the material in the alley.
Roxanne: To let light in but to screen from dust, noise, snow
etc. This is a minor development but the reason it is a public
hearing is because Glenn needs to have HPC's approval for a
variation of one parking space due to net leasable on the parcel.
Glenn: The floor plan will clear up what you are asking. I am
going to cut off about seven feet of the shed addition so that it
is a gable shed addition and cut a section back to make a court
yard and an entry to the office there. The fiberglass wall would
be that portion of the courtyard that fronts the alley. By
cutting the piece of the shed roof back I can get more light from
that side. What is bordering this wall is the neighbors yard.
Don: You are not increasing leasable.
Roxanne: Yes, because right now storage is not considered net
leasable, just FAR. He is increasing net leasable on the entire
parcel 273 sq. ft.
Glenn: The reason for the fiberglass is to get light. It is
only 6 1/2 feet deep. It is translucent not transparent.
Don: I have no problem.
Charles: What we would be doing is allowing the owner of Gracy's
to not have an additional parking space by the addition of this
as leasable space to their property.
Don: How are you going to insulate it.
Glenn: It has horizontal 2 by 4's and I will put 4 inches of
fiberglass batt and two inches of tongue and groove over
everything and exterior plywood and screw through the entire
thing.
Roger: Check the Blow N' Blanket that you spray in.
Roxanne: The motion would be to grant minor development approval
and a parking variation for one space.
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Historic Preservation Committee
Minutes of October 24, 1990
MOTION: Don made the motion that minor development approval and
a parking variation for one parking space be granted for the
proposed improvements at 208 1/2 E. Main Street. Roger second
with all in favor. Motion carries.
MOTION: Roger made the motion to adjourn, second by Don with all
in favor. Meeting adjourned at 7:00 p.m.
Kathy Strickland, Deputy city Clerk
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