HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.hpc.19900523Historic Preservation Committee
Minutes of May 23, 1990
430 W. MAIN - FINAL DEVELOPMENT
HOTEL JEROME TERRACE - MINOR DEVELOPMENT
222 W. HOPKINS - PRE-APPLICATION .
204 S. GALENA, THE SPORT STALKER - PRE-APPLICATION .
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HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE
Minutes of May 23, 1990
Meeting was called to order by chairman Bill Poss with Georgeann
Waggaman, Les Holst, Glenn Rappaport, Don Erdman and Jake Vickery
present. Joe Krabacher and Charles Cunniffe were absent.
MOTION: Don made the motion to approve the minute of April 11,
1990 as amended (dryvit). Second by Glenn with all in favor.
430 W. MAIN - FINAL DEVELOPMENT
Roxanne: The applicant has made revisions that are an
appropriate redesign of the front porch and the elimination of
the handicapped ramp from the street edge to the side and the
handicapped ramp will access from the alley. The most
significant issue is the request to replace all of the windows.
I am recommending that the windows be maintained in place. They
are painted shut and they can be re-worked. I am willing to pass
on information that I have on window reconstruction.
Ted Mularz: Setting costs aside I think it would be foolish to
rebuild them. In the process of rebuilding them I think many of
the parts and pieces would be replaced anyway which would destroy
their historic integrity. All the windows were replaced in the
Hotel Jerome building for energy purposes, convenience of the
guest etc. This building isn't as near as important as the Hotel
Jerome. The windows are painted shut and it is costly to replace
them. I ask that you consider letting the windows be replaced in
this particular building.
Don: If you replace a sash with a contemporary sash nine over
one you will have thicker mutton bars. I would like to see an
efficient way to make these windows work concerning the energy.
Ted: The owner has decided to leave the house exactly where it
is. The shed was built in the 50's.
Roxanne: My question is since the structure is not going to be
relocated why does it need to go. Is it needed for parking.
Ted: It is needed for parking but there is nothing historic.
Roxanne: Is parking more important than preservation.
Don: There are window kits that replace the entire frame but not
the sash, that gives you a seal. There are different levels of
modification to achieve your goal.
Ted: Maybe we could come up with a compromise.
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Minutes of May 23, 1990
Georgeann:
restored.
I would want all the windows on the front/south side
Roxanne: The windows and the porch are the primary elements that
set it apart from detail.
Jake: The horizontal window on the east elevation, is that an
existing window.
Ted: I have no history on that window. We are leaving that
window as is and putting in new glass.
Jake: I support leaving the front elevation as is and restore
the windows.
Glenn: I would like to see the top two windows in the front
elevation reconditioned. Possibly there would be a way to work
around saving the trees in back. I would also like the shed to
remain and used in some capacity as a bike shop.
Ted: The two trees fall in where two parking spaces are located
but we can look at both issues and my client would be willing to
look at that.
Les: I also like the idea of retaining the shed and retaining
the windows on the south elevation.
Don: I would suggest that the monitor work with the owner and
architect in finding a replacement for any sash that has to be
replaced, I don't mean fixed glass, operable sash that both the
sash and the frame produce a final profile that is no greater
than what exists in the old sash that is in place. It is
important that the profile remain consistent as to what is there
presently.
Georgeann: There is one window on the side that has impact,
front window on the east elevation.
Les: I agree that it needs restored. Also the detail is not on
the plans.
Roxanne: Ted needs clear direction as to what you want in the
reworking of that window.
Georgeann: As far as the shed is concerned because it is on a
designated parcel HPC has to give you permission to demolish it.
Jake: I have a problem with the sidewalk. The sidewalk
approaching directly into the porch is an historical relation
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that gives significance to the main entry and having another
sidewalk going around to the side is definitely saying this is a
secondary access and is real clear. Introducing a curved element
and a sidewalk in such a way that is split is not clear to me
which is primary and which is secondary. My encouragement would
be to maintain the primary sidewalk in a straight fashion.
Ted: At conceptual Georgeann had concern with all the straight
sidewalks and we made fast improvement by eliminating the
existing sidewalk along side the house. The side entrance
becomes the main entrance.
Roxanne: And that is what we don't want.
Glenn: Would it be possible to have two separate straight walks
one that went into the side of the building and one into the
front of the building.
Ted Mularz, architect: There are very few people that will come
through that front entrance anyway. Just tell us what to do.
Georgeann: The main access in a traditional place is Jake's
concern.
Ted: With all due respect to the HPC and me sitting on the other
side of the table it seems like we are bringing up issues either
all over again or issues that should have been brought up at the
last meeting and we are not focusing on those issues that we were
supposed to bring back and re-review today.
Roxanne: That happens and that is why this is a two step
process.
MOTION: Don made the motion that Final Development approval be
granted to 430 W. Main Street with the following conditions:
A. That the two windows involving nine lights over one be
restored in such a manner that the operable sash is retained.
Other operable sash in the house be replaced if necessary by sash
that is consistent in terms of profiles.
B. Landscaping: That the applicant work with staff and project
monitor to determine what landscape elements can be retained,
those landscaping elements that are affected by the parking off
the alley and which ones can be retained with slight adjustments
in parking.
C. A recommendation be made that the existing shed be studied as
to the possibility of being retained on site and employed in some
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Minutes of May 23, 1990
manner that is consistent with a rental philosophy of the owner.
HPC does give approval for its demolition.
D. Sidewalk altered slightly to recognize traditional axis of
the front porch. That the alternation as suggested by Ted Mularz
is acceptable.
Glenn second.
Discussion:
Glenn: I feel strongly we are not going in the right direction
with this. This building has had a change of use and if you look
at historically how people did things when they built, the
sidewalk would never have been an answer. It would be a very
direct path and clear. The clearest answer would be to make two
separate walks into this building, one on the side and one on the
front.
Ted: An example is the Floridora building which has two separate
straight walks.
Christie Kienast: Isn't the idea of this Board to keep things
historic. Never historically would there be two sidewalks that
close together. This is not your business how people get into
offices. It is to keep it looking historic.
Georgeann: This entrance as submitted is not historic either.
Jake: I don't like the curves but could live with either of the
options. I would support Glen's position. The front door should
be the way to enter the building. It is our business because it
is the Main Street historical corridor.
Les: Historically you would have a walk into the front door and
you would have a walk coming off and into the back. The problem
is the change of use. Straight to the house, over to the side
and then to the back.
Georgeann: I would suggest that we let the applicant put the
walks either way. Walks are a reversible element. Two straight
shots or the amended proposal made by Ted.
AMENDED MOTION: Don made the amended motion that the client
restudy the entrance as proposed and choose one of the two
alternatives: Two separate paths or one which then diverges off
at right angles, no curves. Glenn second.
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Jake: I would like the applicant to take the latitude and see if
there is something more historical in the windows.
Ted: I would suggest that if in fact the windows are replaced
that they be replaced in character with the existing structure.
Don: The motion was not to replace all sash, operable sash only.
Georgeann: We would be interested in having them replaced as
vertical double hung.
Ted: We are in agreement.
AMENDED MOTION: Don amended the motion to say that the
replacement of fixed glass that is predominantly horizontal can
be substituted with one or more operable units that would be
double hung that would emphasize the verticality of the
structure. Glenn second. All approved of the motion and the
amended motions.
Ted: If the owner replaces the windows he probably would be
amenable to double hung.
Georgeann: We are giving you that option in the motion.
Bill Poss monitor on the project.
HOTEL JEROME TERRACE - MINOR DEVELOPMENT
Roxanne: They are proposing in the west garden area to remove
the lawn and they are in the process of installing 1900 sq. ft.
of red wood decking at ground level. We have received a number
of phone calls from the public. We are proposing that they
incorporate more natural vegetation within the garden area and
use less red wood. That would be more compatible with the
historic Hotel Jerome. We understand the dilemma that the lawn
is hard to maintain due to the amount of pedestrians using the
area.
Dave Gibson, architect: Right now the wearing surface is
kentucky blue grass and the people and spilling out into the
courtyard area. We have extended the red wood decking of the two
slightly raised terraces onto the flush terrace. We thought it
important to maintain the 18 foot buffer along Main Street. The
existing flowers and Aspen's are proposed to stay. New Junipers
are proposed to be added.
Don: What are the projected uses for this area.
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Minutes of May 23, 1990
Mark, manager of Hotel Jerome: In the past the grass area has
been used at this time of the year with tables and chairs. It is
intended to be used as such this time around also we have to go
through a PUD if we get a favorable recommendation here.
Don: It will be a fair weather use. Could a natural element be
incorporated upon which a deciduous tree could be planted and
would shield some of the red wood and provide shade.
Mark: Planter boxes and trees have been suggested.
Dave: The additional tables is subject to special review request
as you know restaurants are conditional use in that area. This
would be used for Friday Afternoon club up to 200 people,
weddings and other special events.
Les: I don't think the red wood in this expanse is appropriate
at all.
Georgeann: I would like to see a larger buffer between the
street and the red wood and numerous trees.
Glenn: Allot of designers and builders are not using redwood
they are using fir. I have no problem it being a hard surface
and am in favor of the trees. I don't think it should be
separated from the walk and should come right up to the street.
Georgeann: Then it wouldn't be historic.
Jake: I am supportive of all the landscaping. The benches
define the edge and protect the flower beds. They also offer a
secondary screen of the area. When the area is empty of people
it should have something pleasing visually.
Bill: The question is the use of this space. From a historic
compatibility issue I think it should be more of a pocket park
with more trees. High canopy trees when not used at dining would
soften it between the Jerome and the building beside it. I could
encourage the use of that space if it was much smaller.
David: I wonder if the Board might consider a motion to give an
intern type approval for the red wood surface with the
understanding that landscaping and seating plans would be brought
back in. The deck is of such construction that you could cut a
hole and the dirt is right there. It would adapt very easily and
we would like to see a motion.
MOTION: Georgeann made the motion to grant Minor Development
approval for the red wood decking of the Hotel Jerome Terrace on
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Minutes of May 23, 1990
the condition that the approval of the redwood as it is now is
temporary and that seating and planting plan will come back
before HPC for approval within the next two meetings. Upon the
approval of HPC the planting and seating plan will be implemented
as soon as possible. Glenn second.
Les: My opinion is that it should be set back further or go to
the street so it is not so visually obtrusive. You are talking
about putting trees in and we are referring to different
dimensions.
Dave: We would be amenable to a solution that would allow us to
put the deck in but let you come back and let you say its too big
pull it back six feet or whatever in addition to the trees.
Obviously the applicant would not like that but that would be
preferable.
Roxanne: This is the time to change the proposal.
Bill: I personally feel it is too large and needs strong
direction.
Don: You are proposing two rectangles a very large one and a
very.small one. The small one will not be a usable place and I
would like to discuss an alternative.
Mark: The small rectangle area was used for a bar area to serve
people outside.
MOTION DIES-ATJ. VOTED NO
Mark: The redwood is put in at least 50%.
Roxanne: They need to finish up as Memorial Day is approaching
and there will be allot of people coming into town. If you could
give them a percentage of appropriate redwood.
Georgeann: The framework is already down.
Les: Possibly a staggered front coming back five feet with
landscaping work and trees.
Georgeann: If they put in the deck how are we going to get them
to change it before next summer comes along.
Dave: It looks like heck as it is.
Bill: If we let them finish it up for Memorial Day weekend on a
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Minutes of May 23, 1990
temporary approval, how do you control or police that as the next
time will be the fourth of July.
Dave: My first impulse would be to give it a wavy edge, not
along the sidewalk but along the Main St. and the interface with
the spruce trees and tulips at the pool. Then insert some
islands into the redwood surface with big deciduous canopy trees.
Bill: What about a Sub-committee and Staff to work with the
applicant to get a design finalized in the next two or three
days. It could be worked out before Memorial Day.
MOTION: Bill made the motion to empower a subcommittee made up
of Les Holst, Georgeann Waggaman and Glenn Rappaport to meet with
the applicant and empower them to work out a solution and a
design for the applicant 'to be completed by May 30th. The sub-
committee has the ability to extend the deadline. Glenn second
with all in favor.
Glenn: I would like to see some benches on the street.
Roxanne: I am opposed to that as this is a very strong street
edge.
COMMITTEE MOTION
MOTION: Don made the motion that we move C,D to the end of the
meeting. Les second with all in favor.
222 W. HOPKINS - PRE-APPLICATION
Welton: I don't have an overall picture of the outside of the
house. I am hoping that you can visualize it and I have
photographs of the detailed area. The apartment is down the
stairs in a well.
Georgeann: She wants to flip the stairs on themselves and cover
the other area.
Welton: There is an existing retaining wall and we would widen
the well about 4 1/2 feet. We are 100 percent below grade and
depending on the reading interpretation there probably won't be
any kind of FAR variation requested. It would not be visible at
all from the street.
Georgeann: If this is facing to the south would we get a flash
of light that might be strange.
Welton: It is facing to the east.
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Georgeann: People from the street are only going to see the end
of it. How far back is the step.
Welton: 35 feet back from the street as there is no sidewalk.
I will have survey, site plan and photographic overalls of the
house for next meeting.
Bill: I need to see the entire context in relation to the house.
Glenn: I have no problem with it.
Georgeann: I also don't have a problem.
Don: If the context could be worked out a little better, detail
shots.
Les: I drove by but couldn't get what the end result would be
and am in favor as long as it is minimal.
204 S. GALENA, THE SPORT STAI/(ER - PRE-APPLICATION
Roxanne: They are proposing the addition of a two story to the
structure. The materials are horizontal clapboard. Massing
needs discussed, scale, fenestration and storefront. The east
elevation has been improved. This is dialogue only and no action
will be taken.
Welton: The owner came to me and asked about raising the
employee housing up a floor and have office space in the middle
and retail on the first floor. The existing building is a little
over 6,000 sq. ft. on a 9,000 sq. ft. lot. In playing with it
the element on the west elevation on the corners looked good when
.I pushed them back in, breaking the mass on the corners. A
setback kind of arrangement. I was pleased with the evolution
from the first plan to this Plan. The difference between the
height that was originally approved and the height with another
story is not a significant difference. I wanted to create a
different color, texture, material treatment on the recessed
areas in the corner and also on the east elevation.
Welton: One of Roxanne's comments was that the building looked
like a motel 6, hanging a balcony on the back of a building.
This elevation with the stairway going up and going into the
building and back out, the secondary, the tertiary elevation
will give it allot more interest. Vertical wood with tight
joints and stained in a gray. Possibly a mirrored glass or
spandrell glass that would take an outer solid wood skin and an
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inner solid wood skin and connect them with something that is
almost transparent and reflects on itself.
Georgeann: So the side surfaces would almost disappear.
Welton: I have always visualized the ground floor as being a
ground floor that didn't have a top. The ground floor was
updated four years ago. If anything we could loose the brick
wainescoating and put a wooden kickplate. Those are subjects for
further discussion.
Bill: You stated that the alley was the highest point.
Welton: I have worked at it and it all falls in the height
limitations.
Don: On the east elevation, rear facade you have a void
underneath the window seal because you pop in.
Welton: Leepsite, a mater that can expand any distance and take
any shape, color or texture. It probably would be a deep window
seat with two by six or two by eight frame.
Georgeann: Starting with the back the little punches for
entrances bother me, possibly they need doors on them. I like
the look of the overall building and like a wood building
downtown, the opportunity of getting different color than we get
with masonry buildings. The first floor works well with the
second and third floor. I like the detail above the gable end on
the alley elevation. I'm not comfortable with the perception of
mirrored glass or with the windows in the back. They seem to
loose the verticality that we are creating in other places.
Les: Explain the back elevation.
Welton: The office floor has an internal corridor that connects
the two stairways so the office floor goes all the way to the
outside face.
Georgeann: Is this something you are trying to search for a
different look.
Welton: Yes, and I am excited about it. The balconies will
enable the employee units to have morning sun. They are deed
restricted.
Les: I have no problem with the wood building.
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Georgeann: In effect you are trying to create alley.architecture
in a contemporary fashion.
Glenn: Large clapboard buildings are very traditional. I'm a
fan of the massing because its honest and is on the street and it
doesn't step back. I like the little punch outs. I don't think
the building needs to look as if it has two fronts. I don't know
why the guidelines suggest that a renovation of the ground floor
would be appropriate. Your suggesting that the ground floor is
not compatible historically with what should be there.
Roxanne: The guidelines are specific as to what a storefront
should be.
Glenn: You are suggesting that the guidelines state that it
needs more verticality. The diagram should be encouraged.
Don: There are good ideas but they haven't resolved themselves
yet. I don't mind the clapboard structure rising one more story
as it can handle it.
Bill: What is the purpose of the model, so you can get a feeling
for the massing.
Georgeann: Get a better handle on the massing.
Glenn: It doesn't have to be a professionally made model.
Welton: We can produce a simple cardboard model and this is an
important corner.
Bill: I am having trouble with a three story wood building
downtown but I don't think we want to do a replicated victorian
hotel either. That is one of my concerns in the massing. I like
the way Elli's goes up and down and that is one of the reasons
why I would support the corner detail. On the north elevation it
tends to have a real high look. I don't like the mirrored or
spandrel glass. That is inappropriate in this town. In regards
to the windows'and fenestration in the guidelines it states the
rhythm should be compatible and it doesn't have to be replication
of those historic windows. You might look at getting some
historical compatibility of the vertical alignment between the
storefronts and the upper windows which is an historic rhythm
that you see downtown. The brick lines do destroy that. When I
look at this building I still see too much of a three story
replication.
Don: Possibly this building doesn't have to have all this
victorian flavor.
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Welton: In recessing elements and getting a different kind of
window treatment, having a transition between that outer surface
and inner surface it becomes almost something that doesn't exist
one way or another.
Georgsann: I like the game that is going on with traditional
elements and to go very far out with contemporary elements. It
creates a direction in which we can go in this community where we
can get buildings that relate to our old buildings but are
clearly of their own time and contemporary. I like the
clapboard.
Bill: On the Galena Street elevation by cutting it back I am
intrigued. In downtown you see a strong vertical alignment of
the windows. You get horizontal balance and vertical and they
all work together. That is what needs to happen.
Welton: I want to have one large corner building in town.
Georgeann: I like the possibility that you can get more color in
downtown.
MOTION: Les made the motion to adjourn, second by Glenn.
Meeting adjourned at 8:00 p.m.
Kathy Strickland, Deputy City Clerk
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