HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.hpc.19890228HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE
MINUTES
City Council Chambers
1st Floor City Hall
February 28, 1989 - 2:30 p.m.
Meeting was called to order by chairman Bill Poss with Georgeann
Waggaman, Nick Pasquarella, Charlie Knight, Joe Krabacher,
Donnelley Erdman, Charles Cunniffe and Zoe Compton present.
Chris Darakis was absent.
MOTION: Nick made the motion to approve the minutes of February
14, 1989. Second by Charles. All approved.
COMMITTEE MEMBER AND STAFF CONNENT-~
Letter presented to Board from Bill Martin and entered into
records.
Joe: I did not make a comment in regards to the Aspen Hardware
store at the pre-application meeting. My feeling is, I am not
in favor of a third floor on that building or even putting a
parapet up there.
Bill: I have changed my mind on the third floor of the hardware
store. We need to be "stronger" on the older buildings and the
third floor is some what of a detriment of our charge of
preserving these buildings. I called the applicant and the news
paper following the pre-application meeting and informed them
that I had changed my opinion on the third floor.
Charlie: I also feel a third floor would be inappropriate on
that building and the roof lines should remain as they are
presently.
Georgeann: We need to "hold the line" on these older buildings.
Donnelley: I looked at the building from various~'~lines
and I could not find any location from which an addition with
more than five or six feet of head room on that roof would not be
visually a prominent element.
435 E. MAIN-KENTUCKY FRIED CHICKEN
MINOR DI~/ELOPNEI~T REVIEW
Roxanne: The applicant has presented revised plans that are
more in keeping with what HPC wanted, a simplification of the
entire facade (see attached memo dated February 28, 1989 in
records). One issue that was not brought up was roof top
equipment and venting.
Robert Arian Ocean, architect made presentation (attached in
records). We are dealing with a building that has gone through a
change of prior use. It was a garage/car wash two years ago.
Historic Preservation Commission
Minutes of February 28, 1989
The building has gone through a major face lift quite recently.
We have tried to follow your recommendations and have reduced the
number of windows. We will not have a central vestibule because
we have pulled back the store front. I have talked to the owners
of Cleaners Express in terms of covering the windows and
upgrading that area. We propose to clean the brick and add
planters at the wing wall. We are proposing that the lighting
conduit be brought out from inside the building to minimize the
amount of conduit that is actually on the outside of the
building and improve the quality of the lighting. The site plan
was presented in the packet to show how the walkway and traffic
pattern flows.
Bill: Is there going to be a parapet on the roof top.
Robert Ocean: The kitchen will be located toward the back of
the building and we can use screening to cover the vent ducts.
Rick Duffy, owner: Traditionally Kentucky Fried Chicken has a
parapet wall which hides the equipment. Scrubbers will be put on
the roof to prevent odor and the parapet will cover that.
Nick: How high will the parapet be.
Rick Duffy: 2 1/2 ft.
Clarifications:
Roxanne: You are including a half moon shape cutout of that
wing wall.
Robert Ocean: That is an option which we would like to keep.
Charles: If you get the half moon what will the brick
treatment be.
Robert: There would be a steel element that would blend in
with the brick.
Nick: Are you going to put the exhaust to the alley or roof.
Robert: Through the roof at the rear of the building.
Georgeann: I am concerned about the cleaning of the brick, that
it does not become two-toned.
Robert: If there is a difference in color when the brick is
cleaned we will continue to do the entire area so that it
matches.
Historic Preservation Commission
Minutes of February 28, 1989
Commissioner comments
Donnelley: I would prefer option #1 that you presented.
also concerned about the brick matching.
I am
Robert: The brick was obtained from Arkansas and is available.
Donnelley: To be in favor of the planters there would have to
be a condition that the brick would be the exact same size,
color and material.
Rick Duffy: Scrubbers are available for $12,000 and I have
committed to that.
Charles: I prefer option #1 over the cut out. I feel the cut
out is disturbing to the building being out by the street.
Exterior light fixtures should be addressed and the material of
the letters on the sign. In the motion the new brick should
match the existing and there should be a contingency that the
proposed lighting be presented to Roxanne or Staff and the
parapet wall so we avoid what happened to Elli's.
Rick Duffy: We will have letters the same size
Western Spirit had with lighting focusing on them.
could be brass or bronze, whatever is appropriate.
that Great
The letters
Zoe: There should be contingencies that the new brick should
match the old and that the style of light fixtures blend. Wooden
painted letters are available in all dimensions.
Robert: We were intending to do the interior similar to
Paradise Bakery.
MOTION: Charles made the motion to approve the minor
development on 435 E. Main as submitted going with option %1 for
the exterior (attached in records) at the corner of the building
with the conditions that all the following elements are signed
off by Staff: All exterior light fixtures, the sign intentions
and elements, final layout of parapet screen wall and roof top
equipment. The new brick should match the existing wherever it
is used such as the planters. Anything else that is not shown
should be brought to the attention of Staff. Charlie second.
All approved.
Charles clarification:
option %1.
If they change the wall they have to use
Historic Preservation Commission
Minutes of February 28, 1989
Roxanne clarification: Option %1 is the removal of a large
portion of that wing wall, so the wing wall is changing.
Charles: For further clarification if they choose to change
this corner of the building then they have to go with option %1.
PRE-APPLICATION 430 E. HYMAN, WOODS BLDG, CARNEVALE RESTAURANT
Roxanne: This is a pre-application conference for comments
only. The whole idea is to remodel the old Toro's space into an
Italian Restaurant and upgrade the entire courtyard area. The
applicant is proposing to add an awning to the entrance and a
rigid wood canopy that will cover the stairway and lead people
down into the courtyard. It will be an L shape. The idea is to
construct a traditional store front entrance in the lower area
similar to an 1890 store front.
Bob Walker: I proposed to the client that something be done to
the entrance and the facade that faces onto the courtyard. We
are proposing basically generic storefronts. On the facade I
suggested sandblasting the windows as opposed to curtains. We
have a problem with lower level restaurants getting people down.
When you walk into Carnevale you enter beside Wax and Wicks and
walk down the stairway which is open to the courtyard. It is
used as an outdoor area but it is not that pleasant as the sun
doesn't reach it. We propose to eliminate the stair that goes
down in and enclose the area. The thought was to take the facade
of the building and turn it and run it down and make a cover over
the stairs with indirect lighting. The tree will remain. Our
concern is the courtyard floor itself, the canopy and the awning
and the two facades.
Donnelley: That wall reflects a lot of light and if a nice
stucco finish were done in a warm color you could effect the
quality of the light and character of that space tremendously.
Nick: Is the proposed stairway going to go down the center of
that courtyard.
Bob Walker: Yes. Right now you go down the side. We will also
light the stairs from underneath.
Bill: Although this is a well done solution I don't know if it
is the only option. The Woods bldg. burnt down in 1913 and the
courtyard was an approach to allow more commercial space
downstairs and I would like to see the courtyard work better and
retain it. Possibly a canvas awning or a temporary awning for
the winter to cover the stair but allow the courtyard to exist in
the summer because it is quite pleasant. Although you may not
Historic Preservation Commission
Minutes of February 28, 1989
be able to afford to fix the courtyard up all at once if there
was a master plan that set the stages little by little and reuse
the courtyard as a better element.
Bob Walker: The long term solution may be the awning. The
applicants request to enclose that 150 sq. ft. and put new
facades on makes sense to the him. The present side entrance
needs a lot of refurbishing. The entrance on the access off the
courtyard makes the most sense but then the question is how do
you protect that area in the winter.
Bill: I like the idea of using the stair and courtyard as an
entry feature. I think snow melting, plantings and keeping it
open might give the owner better exposure then the canopy.
Zoe: Could you close the area with glass.
Bob Walker: If we do that we are into a GMP problem. The
budget we are dealing with, that is not a consideration.
Bill: Most of the downstairs restaurants entrances are poor and
this is one of the better courtyards that could be a dramatic
feature to the entrance of his restaurant.
Charles: A suggestion would be to take the same approach to the
entry and allow it to be a steel frame and have an awning and
integral lighting system similar to the Smuggler Land office.
You would have a covered entry and covered walkway down into the
entrance and that would give you the sense of being part of the
whole courtyard.
Donnelley: A skeletal structural out of steel with detailed
bracket work that could be a "gesture" within a space but keep
the space as its own entity.
Bob Walker: If the Board agrees
kind of a structure going down the
can pursue a "lighter" approach.
that the idea of having some
stairs is within reason then I
Charlie: What is unique is that you are bringing the mall and
sidewalk on that level and bringing the pedestrian traffic right
in. If you could create the signage you need in the entrance and
bring the stairs off the vacant wall and leave the courtyard
open. You come in the center entrance and drop down three steps
and go to the right.
Bob Walker: I thought of that but wanted to utilize what we
already have.
Historic Preservation Commission
Minutes of February 28, 1989
Georgeann: My thought also was to push the stair over on the
right hand wall and clean up the left facades and let the people
come down the right hand side of the open space. I am also
concerned about people coming out the back door of the Aspen Drug
store as this is a heavy visible structure. The design seems too
heavy to me. Perhaps the way to do it would be to keep your
focus on your facade walls of the bar and entrance. Attempt to
attract people as they are on the street and let the courtyard be
"light" and don't make them feel closed in.
Bob Walker: The idea that appeals to me is some sort of light
framework and going back to the canvas approach and light it in
some way.
Donnelley: It is clear what you are trying to do in taking the
detailing of the facade and applying glass panels in a wood frame
and it all becomes a strong statement of another building. A
building within a building and thought out well.
Bill: This is a building that has a courtyard and we shouldn't
close off that courtyard.
Charles: The storefront is done in context of materials and
panels and is comfortable with the building. My only objection
is to lighten up the structure of the covering to make the whole
courtyard read as a courtyard.
Zoe: The store front approach is a good idea and upgrades the
whole building. The inside needs to be "lighter".
Charles: There are two issues the storefront and the walkway.
Bill: The Board is in consensus on the storefront and it will
upgrade that area. With regards to the courtyard and canopy
your plan is elegant and you might be able to start with the
center stair and I think it works because it allows you to take
service to one side and provides the entrance to the restaurant
on the other side. I tend to be not in favor of having the
canopy but I am willing to look at a lighter canopy if there is
going to be one.
Georgeann: I like the idea of the elegant entrance which
carries people down to the restaurant.
Donnelley: The quality of the drawing is very clear to us.
6
Historic Preservation Commission
Minutes of February 28, 1989
COMMUNICAT IONS
Overlay district
Roxanne: There will be a worksession on the Historic Overlay
District March 6th. There are a variety of options: Expansion
of the Main St. and CC district; mandatory landmark designation.
The Board should be thinking about 1. criteria at a National and
State level for districts which includes compatible v.s. non-
compatible. 2. To overlay the entire town. 3. An architectural
review committee which would handle other than the historic
districts. I recommended last year that the West End districts
do get formalized such as the Community Church district, Hallam
Lake district. We only have 38 historic structures that are not
district protected from Main St. to the mountain. None of these
have landmark designation. We need to look at an alternative on
how to protect those structures in their current condition. They
are all in C1 and RMF Zones. These structures are pre-1910. Ord
#47 is including a condition use requirement for demolition of
any residential structure in the C1 and CC district which means
they will have to go through P&Z to be approved for demolition.
Bill: We need to review and evaluate the areas.
Joe: My initial thought is that it will be difficult to do an
overlay district over the whole town. We have the consensus that
we want to preserve these but what is our best approach.
Possibly mandatory designation as opposed to doing the whole
district.
Nick: I don't want to by-pass the complete overlay because it
does make a master control and nobody is let out or let in or
released from a certain situation. We don't function solidly if
we just pick a certain areas to protect.
Charlie: I had suggested the west end for quite some time and
perhaps that element of the community will be in favor of it.
Charles: Possibly we could solicit support from the community
and get the community to support this.
Roxanne: Council will have to direct it.
Bill: They have by approving the comprehensive plan.
Donnelley: If we would have had some hand in the review process
of new structures such as in the west end we could have helped
immeasurably in regards to the suburban character and heavy
7
Historic Preservation Commission
Minutes of February 28, 1989
detailing of the structures.
more broadly defined.
I feel the district should be much
Zoe: I have always been in favor of the overlay and we will be
more cautious as to what goes on in the west end.
Georgeann: I believe if we try for an overall district again we
will end up with nothing. We need a lot of publicity and get
this to come from the community and invite the west end people to
a meeting and tell them we can protect them and explain how. We
also need to protect the environment of the Community Church
district with regard to the schools. The community needs to come
to us asking to be a part of it and if that happens other areas
will come forward.
Charles: What about an advocacy group from the community to
work with HPC and explore the viability of this.
Donnelley: West Side Improvement Assoc. can canvas all the
homeowners in the west end.
Charles: If we approached City Council to approve the overall
district and they were opposed we could have the option of the
Community Church district and Hallam Lake district, something to
fall back on.
Joe: I'm not against having an overall district assuming it is
workable from a time point of view. But as a political matter if
we approach this wrong it will not happen and people will not
want their property designated.
Charles: An idea would be to send out a questionnaire to find
out what the public wants.
Roxanne: I think it is very reasonable that we should do an
overlay over Hallam Lake and the Community Church district. I
think there are other avenues for architectural design review
that do not include the HPC but this committee could serve as
liaison. I feel this is a very political issue and we need to be
extremely careful about how we go about doing this. Our goal is
to preserve the integrity of the City.
Field Study
Roxanne: The field study was very informative and all the
members should site review each project and make comments.
Bill: We should discuss this at the next meeting as an agenda
8
Historic Preservation Commission
Minutes of February 28, 1989
item to determine where we made our mistakes and get a consensus
from the Board on where we are going.
Nonitoring Projects
Roxanne: There are projects that need to be site visited,
McDonalds and the Elisha House.
Roxanne: I had a concern from a citizen in regards to the house
at 717 Queen st. Apparently it is for sale on the market and
his concern was that the house will be demolished. The house was
missed on the inventory.
Bill: We should start the process and any activity coming
through the Building Dept. you should be notified.
Special Co--.ittee Reports
Roxanne: Code amendment revision application from Joe Wells and
Gideon Kaufman will be presented to P&Z March 7th.
Meeting adjourned 4:30 p.m.
Kathy Strickland, Deputy City Clerk