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HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.hpc.19881108HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE MINUTES City Council Chambers 1st Floor City Hall November 8, 1988 2:30 p.m. Meeting was called to order by chairman Bill Poss with Nick Pasquarella, Chris Darakis and Georgeann Waggaman present. Zoe Compton, Charlie Knight, Charles Cunniffe, Donnelley Erdman and Joe Krabacher were excused. MOTION: Bill made the motion to approve the minutes of Oct. 25, 1988. Second by Georgeann. All approved. Motion carries. COMMITTEE MEMBER AND STAFF COMMENTS Roxanne: There is a new document out called the U.C.B.C. which is the uniform code for building conservation which compliments the U.B.C. I will be working with the Building Dept. on this particularly in the area of the minimum maintenance requirements for buildings to see if we can adopt something. Roxanne: Jan. 6th is a seminar in Denver sponsored by the National Trust, Colo. Historical Society and Colo. Preservation Inc. It is a workshop that will brief everyone on the new state wide preservation tax incentive bill that is going to be presented to the floor. There are only three other states in the country that have a state wide incentive, a rehabilitation tax incentive. Colorado may be the fourth; 25% tax credits for rehab. Bill: That would only go against the Colo. State Income Tax. Bill: What is the status on the incentive program. Roxanne: I have been working with Alan Richman and we are looking at the entire landuse code for revision including incentives. Gideon Kaufman and Joe Wells are interested in writing some language for an incentive to amend the code that might happen prior to the adoption of the change ordinance. I might be specifically looking at employee housing and City exactions. Bill: Has the hearing on the Berko Bldg. been suspended. Roxanne: It has been tabled indefinitely, basically they have withdrawn their GMP application. Jack King owner of the Berko/Lily Reed has put the house back on the market. They still have to go through GMP and go through final before the house can be moved. HPC.MINUTES.November 8, 1988 424 E. HYtqAN Roxanne: The applicant is requesting to replace her 6 yr. old awning. The new awning would be one color, charcoal gray. The awning is a very visible element right in the middle of the mall and will include the business name on it. We find that the general application is within keeping of the guidelines and a very positive addition to the otherwise simple non-historic store front. We can address any questions regarding an encroachment license to the Zoning Officer, Bill Drueding. The awning does encroach but six years ago they didn't have encroachment licenses. The process was not in place to do so but for any kind of replacement or new awning that is being put up an encroachment license is required. In the past HPC has required a letter of agreement from the building owner to basically make sure that all the awnings are consistent on the building. Another business located in the building, Takah Sushi has an awning that is not like Sandy's. It is bright blue with white piping and a round barrel shape. Sandy's awning exceeds the width of the store front approximately one foot on each side. The replacement awning should match the width of the store front and it is not similar in design to Takah Sushi's awning. My recommendation is that HPC grant the development approval subject to the conditions stated in the memo: 1) To show proof of an encroachment license or apply for one. 2) That the awning be slightly redesigned to compliment with Takah Sushi's. 3) That the awning meet the Development guidelines with regard to matching the width of the opening. 4) That Sandy meet with Bill Drueding regarding signage because she is adding in "jewelry" on her sign. 5) I have also recommended that the applicant submit to the Planning Office prior to a permit being granted a letter of agreement from the building owner requiring awning conformity. Sandy Francis, owner: I have no problem with any of the recommendations except that I was going to ask the council to waive the application for the encroachment license for several reasons: a) We did this six years ago and it has been up six years and it has enhanced the front of the building, b) It is expense to apply for a license also. I can certainly get a letter from George Vicenzi, owner of the building and he has already seen the material selected. The old awning was light gray with a maroon valance and the new awning is a charcoal gray and will blend in better. The valance will disappear. The new awning will enhance the store. The awning goes exactly to the edge of the store front and doesn't encroach on either side. Six years ago we had to comply with the exact width of the store front. Roxanne: Your drawings show it extended beyond. 2 HPC.MINUTES.November 8, 1988 Sandy: My drawing is wrong and it goes exactly to the store front line so I don't think that is applicable. Takah Sushi's awning has a rod iron umbrella shape awning the same kind of structure that I do. Takah Sushi's entrance is very confined and they really couldn't have done anything else as their doorway is recessed. They couldn't have complied with my awning design which I am sure they were asked to do. My awning went up first. The frame is a rod iron frame very similar to mine. If I make my awning smaller it will look strange and that would mean preparing a new rod iron frame and it would be funny to have a barrel shaped awning over the entrance. I am asking that that recommendation be taken out. Takah Sushi's awning is not due to be replaced as it is in good shape and I looked at it today. Casey Coffman, owner of Takah Sushi's and I are good friends and when she is ready to replace her awning we can bring material samples that are similar and maybe she can pick a color that would be closer to mine or at least in the same color tones. Nick: Regards to us having to say anything about encroachment licenses I wouldn't even want to recommending that you don't get an encroachment because that would setting a precedence. It is completely out of our hands. Sandy: I spoke to Elyse in the Eng. Dept. and she said she would recommend to you that the encroachment license application be waived and grandfathered in. Roxanne: That is done by Council. I spoke to Elyse about that and Bill and I are not comfortable in beginning to waive encroachment licenses. There is a $300. fee involved and I mentioned to Elyse that possibly the Eng. Dept. might want to waive the fee and that was just my recommendation. Bill Drueding: The Zoning Dept. got together with the Eng. Dept. regarding encroachments over city property and we decided not to go around telling people they are encroaching and have to come in for a license. As awnings etc. need replaced we notify them that an encroachment license is needed and that is a written policy procedure. Council can waive the fee but not this Board or Engineering. Georgeann: I think the applicant has gone to a lot of effort in trying to answer the questions and solve them. I don't want to see a bright blue awning on the mall and I think gray is a good solution. I have not been disturbed in the past by the blue awning on Takah Sushi's around the corner. This isn't a building that is going to have a bunch of different awnings as there are no other places for awnings so this might be one of the places that is not as critical as in other locations. I would be inclined to go along with approving the charcoal gray awning. HPC.MINUTES.November 8, 1988 Chris: I walked over there today and walking from east to west the Takah Sushi awning isn't that prevalent, you almost have to get buy and turn around and look back for the two to come together. I don't think it would be that noticeable. Bill Drueding: As the awning is now I think it is too low and could not go back in the same space. The distance should be 8 feet and another 1/2 ft. for the valance. Sandy: That is one of the reasons we eliminated the valance and I can do that. Chris: I looked at it and don't know if it can it be moved up with the windows above. Sandy: I forgot about that and possibly there is four inches there. Possibly that is why the awning is down lower. Bill Drueding: We enforce the 8 ft. because at one time the city equipment went by and got caught on an awning because it was put up too low. The City is concerned about their liability and you have skiers and ski's also. Sandy: It has to be 8ft. from ground level. Bill Drueding: The metal piece. 8 ft. minimum. Sandy: I'll make sure that happens. Bill: Since this is an existing frame and it had been reviewed by the HPC before I would be willing to waive the condition on the approval to be consistent with Takah Sushi's awning. I do agree that we want to get compatibility on existing buildings. Bill: We need to get a clear motion and I would like to keep conditions 1, 3, 4 and five of the recommendation in Staff's memo dated November 8, 1988 and delete recommendation 2. MO?ION: Bill: I will entertain a motion to grant minor development approval for the application for 424 E. Hyman Avenue subject to the following conditions as re-numbered 1, 2, 3, 4 as outlined in the memo from the Planning staff dated Nov. 8, 1988 at this time. Nick: I so move. Georgeann: I second the motion. Ail favored. Motion carries. 4 HPC.MINUTES.November 8, 1988 Nick: The memos that Staff has been putting out since her arrival has made it a whole lot easier for me to be on this Board. I can read the recommendations and see what the direction is being given. 6~5 W. MAIN ST. Roxanne: This situation is unique. Some of you were here back in Dec. of 1986 when this project know as the Wesson Dental Building came before HPC and received final approval for this particular project. They received GMP allotment in 1987, this was the only project for the office GMP allotment in that particular zone district. Dr. Wesson is not going to carry through with this and Mac Cunningham and Stan Mathis have an option on the ground. In going back through this file I found that nobody liked this building that was approved. Stan and Mac are amending the entire facade and not changing the FAR, not changing the footprint. We have a situation where a building has received final approval from HPC and when it was approved it was before ordinance #11 was passed which required an 18 month time frame in which to pull a building permit. In other words they have approval for this design for the next three years under their GMP approval. The 18 month time frame "evaporated" when ordinance #11 became codified. This could be build within the next three years or we could amend the final to something similar or what they are presenting today. We could also say that this is an entirely new building. They are going to be amending the floor plan inside from a huge two bedroom apartment and divide it inside and make more closely affordable one bedroom apartments up above. Mac: The basement has an employee housing unit and we want to go to P&Z with an amendment to use the entire basement. Roxanne: There is going to be a process and some time involved in getting their GMP allotment amended. They are under a time frame and are seeking as much information from HPC as possible and some direction as to where to go with this and I am seeking information from the Board also. As I see this we are looking at a whole new building, we can either amend the final which I don't think really suffices for the public. I think the public needs to be involved again in this process. I see this as significant development because of the major exterior changes that are going on. I would like to see a conceptual and a final process with a public hearing involved. It will not delay them in their overall because they have to go through this other process. I wanted to bring to HPC the full picture. Mac: I put this property under contract a week ago today and Wesson has the right to build this. The City in its "present" HPC.MINUTES.November 8, 1988 looking at Main St. and the facades and the general character of the street and with Roxanne's professional input is not at all going to be happy with this. Wesson recognizes this but on the other hand he has the right to build it and he said to me if you can get the changes in the character that you want, great otherwise I am going to sell it to somebody else and they are going to build it. The reason is he designed a building that HPC told him to build and he wanted to do originally a victorian building and the past HPC board came back and said they didn't want a pseudo victorian. If we are making progress I hope to persuade him to give us additional time. This is an unusual situation. Stan and I feel these plans are grossly inappropriate for Main Street. We are not changing the foot print at all but we did move the building forward 15 ft. at Roxanne's request. Apparently they were originally asked to pull it back 15 ft. and not have it line up with the other buildings on Main St. The landscaping on the footprint is a reflection of what was previously approved. I happen to agree with Roxanne and Stan and I can talk with you about it but we just literally copied it off the other and you will see that the ditch was moved. It is the classic problem with so many regulations in Aspen now that the trees can't be moved so then you have to move the sidewalk and when you move the sidewalk it is over the ditch. Those are just minor comments. Our main objective is to do a building that has the character of the other Main St. buildings. Frankly I am not interested in doing the original plans. Stan Mathis: We have revised the plans and have taken the access to the building off Main St. and put it off 5th Street. The footprint is modified somewhat. Bill: You are trying to get feedback from us to see if your plans are worth pursuing. Give us a brief overview of your design. Stan Mathis: The concept is pitched roofs, ten and 12 pitch. By the site plan I am suggesting some flat roofs and that is an attempt to keep the roofs low. Shake or asphalt shingles, painted lap siding down to a band just below the double hung windows. Below that we are looking at a sandstone or a material that looks like that to give us a nice base. We have aerial wells at each end of the building. We will try to put a guard rail around the wells. I have reduced the size of the decks in the rear for parking. Roxanne: I understand the logistics for need to enter off of 5th and even from the rear and the important orientation to Main Street. This is a pre-application to enter into a casual dialogue to offer Stan and Mac feedback. I am not convinced that HPC.MINUTES.November 8, 1988 we are there yet on the facade. The side orientation is nice. Other than the irrigation ditch I feel this plan is drastically better than what was originally approved. I am interested in working with them to come up with something compatible as this is a very sensitive site and the wonderful Shaw house is next door. Nick: What is going to be in the building. Stan Mathis: On the second floor there will be two condominium units one bedroom each and on the first floor there will be 2400 sq. feet of space for office which would include 1,000 sq. ft. for my office. In the basement, lower level there will be the two bedroom employee housing units. Nick: In seeing the direction they are going I am very comfortable with the plan. Mac: We have tried to incorporate a lot of Roxanne's technical background into the plan and we want to work together. Georgeann: You say you have an option on the property until Dec. 1st, does that mean you have to have all the approvals, if so that is not realistic. Mac: We just need to have a time frame and direction from the HPC. Georgeann: So we need to give you can close your deal with Wesson comfortable. a positive direction so you or else he won't feel Stan: We can't get public notice and be on an agenda until Dec. 6th or 13th and what we would like to do is come back in two weeks and address any comment we hear today. Georgeann: I feel encouraged by what you have here and I am definitely in your favor but I think technically it should go to a public hearing. I am comfortable with both entrances but I think the entrance on the front needs to be more beefed up. I am concerned about the pits because you are not that far from the sidewalk and the street. I would like to see more study on the design. I'm in favor of saving the cotton woods. If you move the irrigation ditch back and put the sidewalk on top of the roots of the cottonwood trees, I'm concerned that it might be a real shock to the cottonwoods. So I would like more study on that. Mac: The sidewalk on the 5th St. side is on the property line nOW. 7 HPC.MINUTES.November 8, 1988 Georgeann: The 5th Street side looks fine and works well. Roxanne: The irrigation ditches are very rectangular throughout town and they should remain that way. Georgeann: I'm not sure I agree with you that the ditches should absolutely have to remain rectangular however, I am convinced that they have to be kept where the cottonwoods are used to them so the cottonwoods can't be harmed. Stan: We were going to hold off on the sidewalk issue until there is an improvement district there. All the cottonwoods are on the outside of the property line except two and only one would be impacted. Chris: I agree with Georgeann on the entrance way as far as bringing it out a little bit more. On the stone work I am wondering if the stonework would detract from the building since the other victorians around it don't have it. Roxanne: The more substantial victorians had stone work around them but I am not convinced the height of the foundation would be in keeping but we don't want a replication either and that is something to think about. When we looked at 200 E. Main was that too much of a solid horizontal base and did it need to be more delicate. Those are fine details we can get into. Bill: I like the approach and the Board wants to help you move forward. The process will have to be outlined by Staff and in concept we are all in favor of what you have presented here. I tend to agree with Georgeann about the irrigation ditch and sidewalks and saving the cottonwoods and that will have to be studied. I also agree with your approach of probably waiting until an improvement district is put in place before doing the sidewalk. I agree with Chris that stone may not be appropriate on this building and I think you should look at other buildings around. Mac: The building next door to the Hickory House has sandstone banding. Bill: But they didn't come that high usually only to the floor elevation. It should look like a large scale residence that has been adapted into an office/residence mixed use. This is a pre- application and we are only giving you comments and anything we say here might change when we get a full set of drawings to review. 8 HPC.MINUTES.November 8, 1988 COMMUNICATIONS Roxanne: Due to the XMAS holiday possibly we could move our meetings to the 6th and the 20th. All approved of the change. Bill: We are trying to put out literature that will be informative to people about historic preservation and how it is handled in town, what designation is and what the process is. We are trying to get better public relations and let the public know what we are doing. The Mayor also recommended that a pamphlet would be a good idea. Roxanne: I need an monitor for the Elisha house. Georgeann: Is there going to be a lot of construction details that might be good for Chris since that is his line of work. Chris: I will monitor the Elisha house. Roxanne: Welton Anderson is the architect for the Elisha project at 320 W. Main. The main house will be repaired and restored in bits and pieces and the carriage house will sit. The owner is Alan Sheda from California and president of Vista California Historical Society. He has a real sense of preservation. Welton has requested an exemption from HPC which he could in fact get with all this work because all of the work is restoration and repair and staff does have the ability to sign off on all of the work. I wasn't comfortable in doing that because there is a lot of work to be done. I feel the monitor should go out to the project with the plan and look at everything that is involved. It is including an entirely new roof and a massive amount of detail. Georgeann: I looked at it and it seems that every piece of wood needs something done to it. Roxanne: It has not been maintained very well at all. Their goal is to turn it into offices with a dwelling unit that will be for Alan Sheda and his family. They are also coming before us for designation and it is eligible for listing on the National Register and Alan does want to pursue that. Georgeann: We need to be aware that they did cut down every tree and bush around the Elisha house but that makes sense with the kind of renovation they have to do. They are talking about taking the lower level and raising it up to the carriage house level and putting a retaining wall along the property line with the McDonalds. They are considering putting up a gazebo also. We now have to be aware of the neighbors considerations, the 9 HPC.MINUTES.November 8, 1988 McDonald's. We need to show the McDonald's that HPC works in both ways for people. Bill: If Staff requests from Welton a master plan you will be able to address issues like Georgeann said. The project should be monitored whether it is exempt from our review or not. We have to try and preserve what is there. Roxanne: Bill and I attended the CCLC meeting and I was surprised to find out they were almost ready to take an ordinance to Council for streetscape guidelines for the commercial core district and I had several concerns. Maybe there is some wording that we can recommend that they incorporate in the ordinance that ties them into us in some method. Kathy: A copy of the guidelines and ordinance will be presented to HPC before going to Council to resolve issues. Possibly we could have a joint mtg. Georgeann: The McDonald's at 300 W. Main called me regarding a small brick fireplace that is in the existing building. One of the pieces of equipment hit the top of the fireplace and they asked if they could be allowed to remove that brick fireplace. Roxanne was concerned about keeping it because it added character and interest. In the old building there is also an aluminum colored stove pipe which is going to be removed. Roxanne, did they ever indicate where their new smoke stack was going to be. Roxanne: No. Georgeann: To some extend this is a case where an applicant did not give us all the information, lets presume good will and never even thought about it. They have a smoke stack in the livingroom of their new building and an iron stove which turns out to be about two feet away from the little brick fireplace, chimney. The fireplace to the brick chimney is sealed up and it is not used and was for the old stove in the old building. One, they should have come before us with the smoke stack and we could have dealt with it then, they didn't and they have already bought it and they intend to put in a plain smoke stack, paint it black which is architecturally in keeping with a log cabin as built in the 1940's that is there. I felt that the two smoke stacks side by side was inappropriate. I felt that the brick fireplace even though it had a certain charm did not add or detract from the architectural integrity of the old building. The primary fireplace is the stone one which is out in front which is the significant fireplace. Roxanne had mention they could have brought the smoke stack from the new stove over and put it up the other chimney but they would have to go through the old wood walls and up into the old chimney and the chimney at that point 10 HPC.MINUTES.November 8, 1988 would probably crumble etc. etc. and I felt that a better solution and a quieter solution would be to remove that brick chimney down to the roof level and let the black smokestack be on the new addition. That is what they are going to do. Bill: Georgeann, do you feel comfortable with your decision. Georgeann: I felt this was a very clear cut decision. I took a tour and I feel they are doing things appropriately. I was concerned about one thing: the old building has a window and the new building comes right up to the window which we had not addressed before. I asked Caroline how this was going to be handled and what they have done is build the new wall right up to it and when they get to the point that they have extra pieces of wood from the back corners etc. they will fill in with the appropriate material over where the window is. The window will always be there and will be easily findable which is our requirement under putting a new addition onto an old building. They are going to cover it up with similar material and it will be a very quiet connection. Nick: I'll give you a thorough monitoring report at the next mtg. Bill: I have to report on 222 E. Hallam and the foundations are going in. I am pleased with the size of the foundation, it is a lot smaller than I thought the drawings represented and they are protecting the tree. I think there is some dirt around the roots of it but it is probably dormant now. The dirt should really be pulled back from the root system. I have not been by 715 W. Smuggler and they are starting to frame as of last week. Adjourned 4:30 Kathy Strickland Deputy City Clerk 11