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HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.hpc.19881122HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE MINUTES City Council Chambers 1st Floor City Hall November 22, 1988 2:30 p.m. Meeting was called to order by chairman Bill Poss with Nick Pasquarella, Charles Cunniffe, Charlie Knight and Georgeann Waggaman present. Joe Krabacher, Chris Darakis and Donnelley Erdman were excused. Zoe Compton was absent. MOTION: Nick made the motion to approve the minutes of Nov. 8, 1988. Second by Georgeann. All approved. Motion carries. COMMI'i~i'EE MEMBER COMMENTS Bill: I did notice that they are doing some work on the Elisha house. PUBLIC COM~I~NT King Woodward: I'm from the Wheeler Opera House Association and we have gone before City Council and they approved two banners 20 ft. high that sit out on the curb that will rotate 360o in a circle and we hope to put them up in December. They will be painted green. The banners will be 5 ft. long by 3 ft. with the candle logo on. They will pivot. They will be 15 ft. from the walkway. The CCLC is also interested in putting banners up on Main St. with the Wheeler logo on one side and the MAA on the other. Charlie: What was done to the Wheeler. King: The stone had to be fixed and woodwork painted etc. at a cost of around $70,000. Joseph Titia's manager Dan: I am requesting to be added onto the agenda. I represent Lizzy Young's formerly Aspen Fresh Fish Co. We would like to have an awning put up above our door and have signage advertizing Lizzy Young and Made in Aspen. It would be light pink. MOTION: Nick made request to the agenda. carries. the motion to add Lizzy Young's awning Georgeann second. Ail approved. Motion 334 W. BALLAM - SKYLIGHT ADDITION TO CARRIAGE HOUSE Bill stepped down and turned meeting over to Georgeann Waggaman. Roxanne: The applicant is requesting to add a roof skylight to the carriage house to the south elevation which is the Hallam Street side. The development guidelines are specific and state that development should avoid inappropriate features such as new HPC.MINUTES. NOVEMBER, 22, 1988 skylights unless their appearance is concealed from principal views. They should avoid being placed on any portion of the roof that faces the street. Staff finds that the application is not in keeping with the guidelines and that the skylight will be visible from the principal view of the property, however, it is tucked a little bit behind the chimney but it is still visible from Hallam Street. The carriage house in Staff's opinion has received multiple detail additions which has altered its original visual status as a secondary support structure to the main house. Staff feels with the addition of a skylight, visible from the main street (Hallam St.) the sense of the historic use of the carriage house would be further diminished. The Planning Office recommends that HPC deny the application for the addition of the skylight to the carriage house where proposed, possibly offering an alternative placement for the skylight. Marta Chaikovska: There used to be a skylight on the north side of the building but where we have our internal staircase going up it becomes "dungeon like" going up to the second floor. If you are looking from the Hallam St. side at the house you really won't see where the skylight is because the main house will hit where it will begin and it would be behind it. It all depends on where you stand. If you stand where the stop sign is, yes you will see it. The more you get over to the Third St. side you might see it. It is a small skylight and the glass is only 18 inches wide and it is flat. There is only a small area where the main house won't block it and where the actual chimney and dormer won't block it. Either way there is only a small corridor where you would be able to see it, if you would even notice it because it is very high up and the way the roof is pitched an 18 inch skylight is hard to see. Georgeann: In our guidelines it talks about not having skylights which are a modern applications on what are supposed to appear as old buildings but then the question is how much of this building is really old. Roxanne: This carriage house is a reconstruction and we need to keep that in mind but what is important the carriage house is beginning to look less and less like a carriage house and more like a two story victorian cottage. Charlie: We allowed that to happen. Nick: It still carries the name carriage house. Charles: Would it be possible to put a skylight on the other side of the roof. HPC.MINUTES. NOVEMBER, 22, 1988 Marta: No because this is the side with the stairway and we don't need it on the other side as we have light. Charles: Is this a two bedroom. Marta: It is a one bedroom carriage house. We tried interior openings but that is even difficult to do in a small space. Nick: Skylights are not part of carriage houses and over the years we have objected strongly to putting any kind of a skylight on an historical building. Marta: The carriage house wasn't historical to begin with, it was the main house. Charlie: I am somewhat ambivalent about the skylight in this building. In my opinion it doesn't really reflect much to the carriage house. I feel like we have given the carriage house enough variations and treatments as we have done with the main house. I stated that I thought the carriage house would be great as a residential unit but I thought it should have stayed very much in character like a carriage house and figure out someway to increase the light. Charles: I am prone to think let them just have the skylight because so many other things have changed on the house but at what point do you say that is enough. Georgeann: In a way you are getting the cavern effect because of all the things that have happened to the carriage house. What about a skylight about half that size where the lighted area would be 18 inches square which could hide more completely behind the chimney. A 22" by 56" skylight gets to be a pretty dramatic statement even though it is fairly hidden. Marta: It is 18 inches wide. Roxanne: We have 22 inches wide. Kim Well: The dimensions that Georgeann gave are the rough opening. Georgeann: If it is that much smaller would it be that much less visible. Marta: Which view are you more concerned about. The way you are stating it you are concerned about the view from 3rd St. rather than what Roxanne is concerned about (Hallam). Which is your principle view. From Third St. you don't see it at all. 3 HPC.MINUTES. NOVEMBER, 22, 1988 Nick: My principle view is an over view I don't like skylights on carriage houses, they are not fitting for carriage houses. Georgeann: I am trying to come up with a compromise because it doesn't look like you are going to get a vote here. We are interested in the view from both streets. Charlie: Does the Board want to see a skylight on the roof. Georgeann: If this building is to be considered historic, and that is why we kept the old original frame inside it etc. then as I see it our guidelines are pretty clear, that it should not have a skylight if it is visible from a principle view. Charles: That is our guidelines. MOTION: Nick carriage house. Motion carries. made the motion to deny the skylight on the Charlie second. Ail approved except Georgeann. Georgeann: We feel that this is too much of a departure from the historical character that you are trying to achieve. Charlie: It was once a building with low density with maybe one apartment in it and now has someone in it on a year long basis and looks down into peoples yards. It is a large dwelling unit and impacts that area and it also impacts the visual element of the neighborhood. That is a great historic house for Aspen. I can see the applicant wanting to get all the square footage that they can but we have gone ahead a let them recreate a house out of what was basically a simple barn. By denying the skylight we are not saying anything to the effect that we don't want to keep carriage houses. W~nat we have allowed them to do encourages people to use those structures. Georgeann: I just caution us to not be too obstructive when people come in with things like this because we know three or four situations that have come before us for instance the Mary Babbock bldg. which came before us with a possible way of saving it and we were harder to deal with than they expected us to be so they didn't come back to HPC and we ended up with modern building there. Charlie: By reconstructing there is a third floor and they optimized all their space and that is important to all these buildings. City Council has come back around in saying get all that square footage underground that you can. That is a good plan from an architects view and from our point of view. HPC.MINUTES. NOVEMBER, 22, 1988 Charles: I'm not so sure I agree bad thing but our guidelines state the way I did. that a skylight on a roof is a it now and that is why I voted Roxanne: If we need to amend the guidelines this is the time to make comments. Charles: From the street level skylights are probably one of the least offensive places to add to a house. LIZZY YOUNG-ASPEN FRESH FISH CO. Roxanne: I do not have a completed application and the owner of the business is out of town therefore you have nothing to see. It is totally appropriate for you to refer this back to another meeting if in fact you want to do that, however, from what I have seen it is straight forward. They are asking for one awning and the building is across the street from the Lilly Reed/Berko house at 304 E. Hopkins. The awning will be a retractable awning and the valance will have the name Lizzy Young and also the name of the upstairs business, Made in Aspen. Manager, Dan: I have been with the restaurant for 1 1/2 yrs. and there is nothing to come under to get the snow off when its snowing before customers come in. It will make the facade look a lot nicer and upgrade. Charles: The awning would curve out. Dan: Yes, it will curve with the flow of the building. Roxanne: I don't have a picture of the building or awning to see how it fits within it. Charlie: Dan, what size is the awning. Dan: 106" wide 24" high. Georgeann: The material should be natural canvas material not the shiny material. Charles: Doesn't he have to take it to Zoning. Roxanne: I would recommend approval subject to a completed application and review by the Zoning officer. Charles: I think it is behind its setback so they wouldn't need an encroachment license. Georgeann: On a retractable it wouldn't matter. 5 HPC.MINUTES. NOVEMBER, 22, 1988 MOTION: Charles made the motion to approve the awning at 304 E. Hopkins with the conditions that it be a bailable retractable type awning and that the material samples are presented to Roxanne for final approval. This will also need to be reviewed by the Zoning Dept. Georgeann second. All approved. Motion carries. HISTORIC PRESERVATION INCENTIVES Roxanne: The memo I prepared for you is information to get you all thinking about what it is we currently have, how we got to this point and where we are going. You all have done well in bringing to the Planning Office's attention all of the problems that we have had with this. I have listed all that we have currently existing as incentives which I go over with applicants when they call. Alan is still interested in seeing the PDR program, the purchase development rights program come about. In January a very large change ordinance will be brought to Council that will look at the code. In that, there will be a variety of changes such as overhauling our demolition section and clarifying the standards. All the information will be brought to HPC prior to it going to Council. We might pursue the PDR in conjunction with the Aspen Trust as a non-profit. I have not found another community that has used PDR's in an historic preservation application. PDR's are generally used in open space where TDR's are used in historic preservation more in an urban setting. We may be the first communities in the country to apply a PDR program to an historic preservation. I don't have any examples to show you how that is going to work. As a recommending body HPC should let me know and as Staff I will let Alan know the proposed changes that HPC might think will work. The recommendation I have made in the memo might be too strong. In talking with Alan which was after this memo was prepared and he doesn't feel that a resolution is appropriate from this group but he does feel it is appropriate for HPC to continue to do what you have been doing in alerting the Planning Office of the problems and stating as an HPC we can't function very well because we are stuck in this way and then letting the P&Z and Council work out all the wording. Georgeann: Roxanne has covered everything. Roxanne: Aspen is very advanced than other cities in historic preservation. Charlie: On #8 facade easements it states that we to more fully understanding these tools. Will you them and what is left on the state and local level. should commit tell us about 6 HPC.MINUTES. NOVEMBER, 22, 1988 Roxanne: I don't think we have a single facade easement in Aspen. It is a new program and the first program was in Durango. Manatou Springs has one that I am familiar with. What happens is that an historic building, the owner will actually put on an easement and it is donated to a non-profit who gives them a tax credit for their donation to the non-profit. The non-profit could be the Aspen Historic Trust or Aspen Historical Society. There is a state wide non-profit organization set up specifically for facade easements. We never had an application for that so I don't know much about them. What happens is that the property owner is still required to maintain the facade of that building but basically what that is saying is that no changes can take place without review from this particular non-profit that the facade easement has been donated to. It is another way to make sure that the facade is protected. What is going on with RITC, I have been asking the state preservation planner Chris Pfaff to come to Aspen and give us a seminar on that. We have only had two projects in Aspen that have utilized RITC, Jerome and the Brand Bldg and that is a federal tax credit. What that means is that on a building that is on the national register or a certified building within a national register district can obtain a tax credit for any rehabilitation materials and labor that they are putting into their project. There are a lot of criteria that goes along with that including review through the State Historic Architect and the National Parks Service. It is not an easy process to go through. We are looking at taking the Elisha project through that process. The State of Colo. may become the fourth state in the country to have state income tax credits very similar to the federal tax except that it will be 25% instead of the federal 20% and it will be on your state income tax instead of federal income tax. It will apply to income producing and also residential properties as well. A Senator and a Representative will introduce this on the Floor the first week in Jan. On Jan. 6th there will be an all day worksession on this. I will keep you informed. Nick: On #2 it says the funding source is the main question, with a possibility of 1/4 penny sales tax with the City as the conduit funded through the non-profit organization. As treasures does this mean we might put money in the bank. Roxanne: I don't know how that will work yet. I'm not sure if it will be actual appraised value of actual dollars. Charlie: On this facade easement, it is my understanding that the Marolt property was purchased with open space money and now they want to impact it with housing. Perhaps there is real dollars there that the community would say we want to see this building stay as it is and that the community buys that facade easement as open space and consider that a purchase of 7 HPC.MINUTES. NOVEMBER, 22, 1988 development rights and "nipping in the bud" with real dollars that are in place. People may argue that no we want another 50 acres etc. or something in town. Roxanne: It wouldn't fall under facade easement but it is an interesting application. Charlie: Ail these ideas etc. have to have money. Charles: The open space funds are justified as being necessary to preserve the character of Aspen. Charlie: We might want to present it as one of the alternatives to say in lieu of having some other funding source or in lieu of having a trust that we present this to the council to say that this is a viable alternative, the community was up in arms, they wanted to try and purchase the "cookie munchers" bldg. and 600 people signed the petition for the Berko bldg. why not begin to put that in place because at least there is money there. To say if it becomes important prior to something else being put in place we think this is an alternative that the community should have and look into the options and see if the wording is not there particularly if they are about to turn open space into a housing unit. Bill: I would like to see that the HPC stay involved and it may mean that the HPC should take a more active role by having a committee that works with the other committees. It is kind of a slap in the face to be asked to sit around and read what is going on here. Roxanne: Maybe this Committee wants to start looking at itself more as a policy making committee instead of what you are right now, a recommending body. My recommendation guides you more into the policy making role. You all as a committee should think about your role in the Community and whether or not you want to elevate yourself from a recommending body to a policy making body. I personally think the historic incentives should be decided in this group and that they should be brought forward to the P&Z and then through the other levels. Georgeann: I am concerned about our time factor of our ability to manage to do that much more. Bill: We could have a committee from our board. If we want to be a working board we must get involved in this important issue; incentives on what we have to rule on. What are they going to do, write it up then they enact and we start to work on it and find out that it doesn't work and it take another year! 8 HPC.MINUTES. NOVEMBER, 22, 1988 Georgeann: That is very valid. Roxanne: You could give me feedback today to take to the Planning Director. Georgeann: Do we think we can come up with more positive directions and suggestions. Bill: We have a good list here to work on but be actively involved as a unified voice so that it works with what we have to do on this board. I don't want to get something that doesn't work right. Georgeann: Even if we go along with the list here you are saying it makes better sense that we have a hand in it. Bill: Yes especially when we are trying to create an image here and be a working body, otherwise we are just a review board. Nick: I like the Committee idea. Roxanne: You might not need a sub-committee but relay your thoughts through me and I can bring you into that arena. I have been attempting to do that and relaying your thoughts to the Planning Office. Preservation is a critical aspect of the overall planning process. Georgeann: It must be working because when they put the last thing together without any input from HPC it ended up being worthless. Bill: I will give you on waiving cash in lieu they are all good but I to the code as they are relate together and how to relate our experience We are going to be asked be asked to rule on the to be asked to be are valid. direction and I don't see anything here of the park dedication fees. I think don't know how they are going to relate summaries. How does it all work and we work with it. We should be involved of how we are going to work with these. to work on the designation grants and to variations, exclusions and we are going involved and make recommendations that we feel Charlie: To know what they are and how they were formulated. Bill: If we don't get involved somebody else will be doing it and it won't relate to the preservation element and it won't be a working document. Charles: Do we want a motion that it be a requirement for the development of any resolutions that we be involved in that. 9 HPC.MINUTES. NOVEMBER, 22, 1988 Bill: Yes. Roxanne: The Historical Preservation Committee wants to be actively involved in the historic preservation code amendments and require that the Planning Office brings the amendments to you for approval prior to adoption by Council. Bill: We don't need a motion just tell Alan it isn't fair. Georgeann: The city exactions would not have come up if it weren't for the Berko bldg. and our needing them. Bill: I see it that the City Council is saying "the HPC screwed up on the last one and let them sit on the side" and we will do all the work. Roxanne: What I am getting from City Council is that they are seeking information from wherever they can get it. Bill: We want to be involved! When they didn't they screwed it up. I didn't get on this board to and I think we should be more involved in this. listen to us just sit here Georgeann: What Bill says makes good sense and I think we need a motion because it is more permanent than a phone call. We think this is a good direction to go in but we want to be involved in it from here on in, a policy making not policy following position! Bill: Roxanne you can relay to Alan that we want to be involved and I will contact him also. Charles: We have to make sure we are involved from the conception of the issues as we are involved with the issues every day. MONITORING PROJECTS Charles: I have 113 E. Hopkins and nothing is going on yet. Bill: I have 222 E. Hallam and I haven't been by for a week but last week the foundations were in. I will go by 715 W. Smuggler this week. Nick: I have 134 W. Hopkins, and the new building is firmly set and it proves that you can move a building from one place in town to another in town. The beam improved the interior of the house. Gary Bucher's house: The tree is leaning but is living. 10 HPC.MINUTES. NOVEMBER, 22, 1988 Charles: 212 E. Hopkins with the addition in the back and the enclosed porch is done. Charlie: 212 E. Hopkins is a bit tall and crowded and no room for vegetation between them. I know we scaled it down also. Charles: I had a problem with that also but the way the roof worked on the existing house with the contemporary addition in between I couldn't find any better way to connect the roofs so it would work. Roxanne: I'm not pleased with that project either. Charlie: Sometimes applicants come in and say they have dropped the height 4 ft. When that is not enough we have to tell them to take it down another four feet or whatever. Bill: If it doesn't work it doesn't work. Charlie: Go underground instead. Dl~%l~f LETTER FOR HISTORIC PROPERTY OWNERS Roxanne: Charlie has been working on that with me and it is step one of the public relations process that we are working on. The Public Relations Committee will be putting out a brochure that will be very specific as to what we are all about and what the historic preservation program is all about. We will mass mail this letter out. Georgeann: I felt the letter was a difficult thing to read even when I already know what is in it. It is long and heavy duty. Charlie: We were attempting to keep the letter to two pages. We wanted to put people on notice that they have to have prior approval and should talk to Roxanne for information. Georgeann: things. The first three sentences should tell the important Roxanne: We will revamp the letter. MEETING DATES Roxanne: Meeting dates in Dec. have and the 20th. After the meeting of the for a social hour. been changed to the 6th 20th we all get together 11 HPC.MINUTES. NOVEMBER, 22, 1988 Roxanne: The Preservations Briefs are in your packet and if anybody wants the entire briefs they are available. Roxanne: In Denver at the Heritage Museum there is a ski history exhibit and Aspen is in it. Roxanne: Our historic districts are going to be featured in John Denver's XMAS special. Roxanne: The next meeting we have two public hearings, one designation of the Elisha house and one for conceptual of 605 W. Main which is the amended Wesson Bldg. The meeting of the 20th is the public hearing on the conceptual for the Elisha carriage house. Adjourned 4:30 p.m. Kathy Strickland Deputy City Clerk 12