HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.hpc.19880614HPC. MINUTES June 14, 1988
MAROLT BARN/RANCHING MUSEUM
FINAL DEVELOPMENT REVIEW 113 E. HOPKINS AVE. .
FINAL DEVELOPMENT REVIEW-334 W. HALLAM AVE.
FINAL DEVELOPMENT REVIEW-212 W. HOPKINS
FINAL DEVELOPMENT REVIEW-516 E. HYMAN AVE.
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HISTORIC PRESERVATION CO~ITTEE
MINUTES
City Council Chambers
1st Floor City Hall
June 14, 1988 2:30 pm
Meeting was called to order by
Pasquarella, Augie Reno, Charles
present. Zoe Compton was absent.
Charlie Knight and Joe Krabacher.
chairman Bill Poss with Nick
Cunniffe and Georgeann Waggaman
Excused were Patricia O'Bryan,
NOTION: Nick made the motion to approve the minutes of April
26th and May 24, 1988. Charles second. Motion carries.
STAFF CO~ENTS
Roxanne: We have been receiving a lot of public inquiries from
California, New Zealand and New Mexico requesting copies of our
guidelines. I am working on developing a bike route through the
west end and both the districts. I have reviewed the mechanical
equipment on the roof at 520 E. Hyman. There is one shiny
aluminum stove pipe that projects only visible from across the
street. I talked to the Bldg. Dept. and they never granted a
permit.
Augie: To clear up the retraction, Madelyn said that the Amato
residence was an unanimous vote in favor of the project and I
wanted to clarify that there was one person against the project.
PUBLIC
Mary Martin: I have to make a comment about moving any 4 or 5's
out of the historic center. I worked hard for an overlay and one
of the reasons was to protect those houses in the City's
district. Even though you go by State guidelines, National
guidelines they are not mandatory and they cannot be made
mandatory to anyone historic preservation citizens group. This
is a small town and the historic part of it in which you are to
take charge is very precious and it is slowly eroding. That
doesn't mean to me that you can move an historic structure 4 and
5 out of its site; it relates to that site to make the whole
historic district. You are charged to preserve not just the
house but the district. We have seen houses and buildings
changed and it is slowly eroding. It is time for us to say no.
I would fight for the Berko building moving it up if that helps
for the alignment of the street and it helps the builder to
realize its potential out of his investment. I feel these big
victorians right in the heart of the City are what make Aspen and
give it its distinctive flavor vs. any other town in Colorado. I
also feel you have fallen back on your tolerance of an addition,
of a victorian style addition and I don't think that is fair
either and I'll come back and talk with you every time you have a
meeting if that is what you are going to do because this Board is
over staffed with business people right now and not the people
HPC. MINUTES June 14, 1988
who live in the victorians. I think it should be put in your
code that a portion of this Board should be a layman who lives in
the historic district or an historic house.
I also would like you to put in your demolition standards
a strong rule on demolition of 4 and 5's in the historic
districts. The houses belong where they were built. You could
pass an ordinance that deals with the historic commercial
district that would preserve more. Also in the demolition
standards the wording needs changed to include the historic
district.
Bill: Roxanne would you look into that.
Bill: The Berko project has not come before us yet.
Charles: When we came before HPC there were several
suggestions and one of them was to move it. We have not decided
what we are going to do. Each situation has to be reviewed
uniquely.
Mary: You should pass a law that it cannot be moved that it has
to remain on its site.
Roxanne: DO you specifically mean the commercial core site.
Mary: I think Main St. and the commercial core, both districts.
Charles: On the Marolt property you were in favor of having the
City allow victorian houses to be moved to the Marolt property.
Mary:
3.
They were the old miners cottages that were given a 2 and
Charles: A two and three you can just demolish.
Mary: In my opinion no four or five ever should be moved.
Nick: I do agree that in the future there should be a non-
business person added to the Board.
Nick: There is nothing objectionable about Elli's roof as it
blends in quite well and the colors look good. Whatever has
been added for the restaurant is hardly noticeable. I am signing
off as monitor of Elli's as everything is in compliance.
Augie: On the Barnett residence I talked to Welton Anderson and
he looked at the corner in question. He thought there was a
framing there and some cornice trim work below the roof that the
carpenters didn't allow for. When you are looking at the
HPC. MINUTES June 14, 1988
building straight from the street you can't notice it. When you
are looking from the northwest corner it does curve a little bit.
I told Welton the Board would get back with him. Welton would
also like to add a window to the east side of the garage, a
double hung window. He will be doing a sketch and to me it seems
insignificant.
MAROLT BARN/I~ANCHING MUSEUM
Roxanne: The Historical Society is very interested in obtaining
the barn and turning it into a combination ranching/mining museum
with a concentration on farm implements. The project is now
encompassing the 1.9 acres immediately around the barn. The
entire project is open space owned by the City. Our focus is in
support of the Historical Society's efforts with regard to the
barn structure itself. It is not a designated structure
therefore we can't take formal action. I am recommending that we
go through a designation process which we can recommend.
Mark Fowler, Aspen Historical Society: We met with the interns
to see what development had come along with the property. Five
options were given. It is open space vs. the employee housing
vs. a City park vs. the barn. We didn't think there would be so
many other interests. One of the biggest concerns is that Tom
Baker does not feels if we want 1.9 acres that we will get 1.9
acres and it would have to go back to the vote of the people.
If we want to restore the barn fine but as far as anything else
it is questionable. With the acreage people could actually see
the machines. We are looking at $40,000 for restoration of the
barn. Another concern was access parking. Another issue was
moving the bike path as it exists to avoid the congestion that is
there right now. These are ideas that we would like to see. The
barn would have to be moved if the alternative highway straight
shot is taken. We do not want to see the barn moved.
Roxanne: This was the barn that was connected with the
Lixiviation Project that closed down in 1893. It is my
recommendation as preservationist that the barn not be moved and
maintained on site and preserved. I would like to get a support
letter from HPC of what you would like to see happen on that
particular site for next weeks meeting.
Nick: I'm a past vice-president of the Aspen Historical Society
and will attend the meeting Friday also.
FINAL DEVELOPMENT REVIEW 113 E. HOPKINS AVE.
Roxanne: On March 22nd HPC reviewed and approved the conceptual
development plan which included a partial demolition of the 1972
addition plus a plan for the two story addition, a demolition of
HPC. MINUTES June 14, 1988
the rear shed off the alley and its replacement of a new one car
garage. The motion passed granting conceptual development with
the following conditions that the applicant provide alternative
design studies in respect to the dormers, porch and windows of
the front elevation and that the applicant come back with
detailed samples of materials which he has. Also a letter of
structural integrity which is in the packet. Gary will explain
the change and new location of the one story garage. It is moved
slightly to the west and with access off the alley. Staff finds
that this is not a major change and is acceptable. He will
present new garage elevations. Dormers: HPC has required that
he restudy the front elevation dormers. He has presented a
second story dormer that is reduced in size which nearly matches
the adjacent dormer. We find that the reduction is more in scale
with the remaining fenestration. The front elevation porch was
discussed at conceptual and HPC found it to be more of a "mirror
image" of the original historic porch possibly as a conflict.
The applicant restudied that entire front facade going so far as
to remove the porch entirely which they found complete
unacceptable. He prefers the porch design to remain as
submitted. That particular addition does step back about 20 ft.
from the facade of the main house. It is screened by a lot of
trees and vegetation and staff agrees in part with HPC's opinion
about the new porch being too much of a replication however in
restudying we feel that a certain balance in detailing is
necessary. One alternative you may want to do is ask the
applicant to submit a detailed drawing on simplified details
such as the brackets, turned columns. The material structural
analysis letter is included. We find that the application meets
all the criteria of HPC's conceptual development approval and we
would recommend approval along with partial demolition.
Bill Drueding: Are you reducing any bedrooms in the existing
house.
Gary Bucher, owner: No, there are three bedrooms in the house.
Bill D: What parking did you have there before.
Gary: There is a shed behind and we want to put the car in the
garage rather than let it sit in the alley.
Roxanne: You had no on-site parking.
Gary: There is a head in one parking space on the property.
Gary: We are trying to keep the garage a low profile for view
of the mountain. I brought a sample of the metal roof with
stainless steel in the center and the turned coating on the
outside. We are going to use the rabbited siding to curtail any
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HPC. MINUTES June 14, 1988
possible curling. The other concern was shifting the garage over
where it might possibly be seen from the E. Hopkins side of the
street. I took pictures and you probably wouldn't see the garage
at all just the tree on the side of it.
Roxanne:
bedrooms.
You are demolishing the back addition that has two
Gary: Yes.
Bill: You are demolishing the shed entirely.
Gary: Yes.
Nick: On a on site view you can see the definition between the
new building and the addition.
Gary: The addition is masked by the two maple trees in front as
well as the pine tree.
Bill: We have certain issues that need to be looked at: the
front porch, the garage which is being relocated, materials and
the second story dormer on the front facade.
Augie: On the front porch is there any access.
Gary: On the side.
MOTION: Bill made the motion to approve the application that
meets the criterior in the HPC's conceptual development approval
and recommends approval of the partial demolition and final
development application for 113 E. Hopkins Avenue. Nick second.
All approved. Motion carries. Georgeann didn't vote.
FINAL DEVELOPMENT REVIEW-334 W. HALLA~ AVE.
Bill stepped down.
Roxanne: 334 W. Hallam is before us for final development
review for the partial demolition, the alterations, the addition
and the carriage house renovation. On March 8th HPC passed the
conceptual development approval and on April 6th the applicant
returned requesting an amendment to the original plan which HPC
approved. It went last night before City Council and has
received its final designation on second reading and the $2,000
incentive grant was awarded since the property was rated #5.
Primarily the issues we are dealing with are the carriage house.
It becomes very close to being a demolition however in reviewing
it with the state historic preservation officer she agrees that
it is a partial demolition and a reconstruction. The plans
HPC. MINUTES June 14, 1988
remain very similar to those that were already approved. It is a
two bedroom dwelling with a four ft. expansion to the east. It
does have a small west elevation porch, very simple; however, it
does encroach slightly into the setback and that does require HPC
to grant a variation in the motion that such encroachment is more
compatible with the historic structure. The gable peak height
remains identical to the existing height. The lines of the four
foot extension are exactly identical to the carriage house. They
intend to keep the structural members in place and remove all the
exterior fabric and replace. It was my original recommendation
that they try to incorporate as much as they could into the new.
I am not sure they can do that at all as it is in sad shape. The
materials will match what is there. With regard to parking it is
required in code that for each new bedroom that is created that
one new parking space must be provided on site. The current site
contains two spaces that have served the existing four bedroom
home, those are fine. We need to make sure two additional spaces
are provided for the two new parking spaces. The applicant
submitted a revised site plan option B in your packet which shows
the two spaces are encroaching into the City's right-of-way.
This is a touchy issue with regard to the Engineering Dept. in
that they are not OK with just signing off on that even finding
that the preservation issues connected with the carriage house
make it OK for that to happen and 3rd street is sited for
sidewalk and gutter because it is a major route into the music
tent area. Therefore any development that goes on along 3rd
street is required to have that upgrade going on. There are
several site issues that the applicant is dealing with separate
from us and they are going to be taking it through an
encroachment license through Council and that is recommended
through the Eng. Dept. That is not in our preview to review.
The alignment of the carriage house does not change and neither
does the garage that connects the two. It is a matter of whether
they go before P&Z, pay a fee and go through an application and
request a reduction in parking or whether they provide the
parking which is certainly our recommendation on site but
encroach into the right-of-way. They are dealing with that right
now. The main structure and the addition, no changes from the
conceptual development approval and the amendment have been
proposed. The main house restoration facades are considered
phase #2. The owners plan to occupy the carriage house while the
renovation of the new structure is taking place which includes a
basement which they will be excavating under the new addition,
the demolition of the 1960's addition and then adding on. We
have received the structural letter that states that the main
building is very sound and that in their opinion there will be no
undermining of the structures stability with regard to the
addition. The allowable floor area is another issue. The
calculations of the entire project have been recalculated by the
applicant. It shows that it is exactly 500 sq. ft. over the
HPC. MINUTES June 14, 1988
allowed limit of FAR which HPC may approve a variation finding
that the FAR is more compatible with the historic structure due
to the renovation of the carriage house into a dwelling unit. We
are trying to preserve carriage houses as much as we possibly can
and therefore by increasing the square footage it throws us over
the FAR. That needs to be included in the motion. They have a
Phase II restoration. We strongly recommend that every effort be
made to preserve and carefully restore those details that make
this property a true historic Aspen landmark. The materials will
match the new siding and will be painted. The existing siding is
in very good shape and will be repaired and painted as suggested.
The wood windows will also be repaired and repainted. The
roofing materials will be roof shingles on both the carriage
house and the main structure. The windows are wood casement and
double hung. We recommend approval granting the following
variations: the encroachment of the new porch of the carriage
house into the required setback has been found to be more
compatible to the historic structure and that the FAR limit has
been exceeded by 500 sq. ft. due to the adapted renovation of the
carriage house which HPC finds to be more compatible with the
historic structure. We also recommend that the carriage house
not be lifted up for foundation repair or replacement purposes
but remain situated on the site. There was a possibility of that
going on. We are concerned that it will not withstand any kind
of major lifting.
Trish Harris: With regards to the foundation we have talked
with the owners today and they are saying they would prefer that
there be a basement under the carriage house. As long as they
were going to pour a four foot foundation wall they felt they
should just go ahead and do a basement. In order to do that we
would have to move the house and the structural engineer said it
could withstand some movement. You could keep this separate from
the final approvement if you find that necessary.
Roxanne: You are already up to the limit on FAR; how many more
square feet would you be adding.
Trish: A lot of the additional square footage was in the sun
space are and we would try to trim that down that area and put
some storage in there but it would be underground so I don't
think we have to count that as it would be totally subterranean.
Bill D.: The basement would be exempt from floor area ratio as
it is 100% below grade. It adds to the impact and must be used
for storage. The entrance would have to be through an inside
stairway.
Trish: We are adding a basement under the main house.
HPC. MINUTES June 14, 1988
Georgeann: Roxanne is concerned about the moving of the
carriage house.
Trish: As far as moving it the structural engineer thinks it
should be moved anyway. We are digging a four foot trench to put
in the wall and he feels it should be moved because it would be
very hard to dig under the house even the four feet and to pour
the cement. We thought of moving it to the rear yard.
Bill D.: If you can move this house and put in a new foundation
then why shouldn't it be moved out of the setbacks. The reason
for allowing setbacks is because things cannot be moved.
Roxanne: I would have a problem with HPC approving something
like this without a clear site plan and how it works.
Georgeann: The historic designation is on the whole parcel.
Charles: We discussed before adding 4 feet to the carriage
house and HPC approved that. Looking at the site plan I thought
the sun space was to be moved back further.
Roxanne: The applicant argued that the sun space had to be that
way and we approved it.
Charles: Before the sun space was not flexible and now it is?
If it is a trade off between the sunspace and the carriage space
as I understand it, the sun space is flexible so that the
carriage space can work. If they are willing to do that then we
should consider that the sun space is not a dead issue.
Georgeann: We would be more inclined to give them the basement
if they would keep the sun space small. The client said
originally that it would be a major hardship for them without the
sun space.
Trish: I got this dropped on me before the meeting and I do
agree that the sun space is very important to them. I have not
discussed this with the clients. The sun space and the 4 ft.
were already approved.
Georgeann: This issue now is final and the basement under the
carriage house. The concern of Roxanne's is moving the carriage
house.
Roxanne: If we are resetting the carriage house all the issues
change and perhaps we should table this until we know what the
clients want.
Trish: I would rather you not table it.
HPC. MINUTES June 14, 1988
Roxanne: Final means stamped approval.
Georgeann: Then she would have to come back to us completely
for the new basement if they want it.
Roxanne: If in fact they are going to move this structure that
is considered demolition and that goes through a public hearing
process.
Bill D.: They are going for variances because they say this is
where things have to be because they can't be moved. Now they
are saying they can move it. How many considerations should they
get. Should we deal with the fact that it can be moved.
Nick: You are going to move it to put the foundation in then
move it back.
Charles: That was the idea.
Bill D.: The point is if they are going to move it off then
they could put it back somewhere else behind the setbacks.
Georgeann: If you have to put a foundation under a wood
building I have seen them in a lot of cases jack the building up
and pour a foundation beneath. Is that more or less hard on the
building then it would be to move it. Jacking it up has to be
hard on the building also.
Charles: You have to jack it up to move it horizontally.
Georgeann: So the shock to the building is 70% to jack it up
and 30% moving it over.
Augie: You could under pin it.
Trish: There is under pining and
much more costly but is feasible to
to pour the four foot wall.
that is a possibility. It is
under pin one side at a time
Charles: They could take the siding off and jack up the frame.
Trish: We presented it to you before that it was going to be a
skeleton.
Nick: The vertical 2 by 4's can be saved but the siding is in
bad shape.
Augie: If what I hear happens we are going to maybe have a
skeleton, move it, allow them to change the length of the
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HPC. MINUTES June 14, 1988
building, change it by adding dormers etc. so do we really have a
structure that is historically renovated or do we have some new
building?
Roxanne: It is reconstruction.
Georgeann: This sounds like the ramifications are complicated.
Roxanne: If it is moved it is considered demolition.
Georgeann: Possibly we should approve the plans as presented
from conceptual and if they want to alter the carriage house for
whatever reason then they would have to come back to us.
Roxanne: You could approve it as is and if anything is altered
they couldn't get a building permit anyway.
Georgeann: In Roxanne's memo why are we giving then an
encroachment on the new porch.
Trish: Because there is a different entrance, it is an entrance
porch. The way it is now is on the south side next to the
existing car port.
Georgeann: If she didn't extend out beyond the existing
building line why would she need more of an encroachment. Why
wouldn't it be just grandfathered in.
Bill D.: There is a five ft. setback minimum and is probably 7
on this lot. The house is already encroaching into the setbacks,
the carriage house by a couple of feet. You cannot increase an
encroachment without a variance.
Georgeann: We decided that it was more compatible.
Georgeann: We are inclined to give them approval as is without
moving the carriage house. We would also need a motion that
would incorporate the encroachment of the new porch into the
required setback and eliminate the FAR.
~OTIO~: Augie made the motion that HPC approve the partial
demolition and final development of 334 W. Hallam St. granting
the following variations:
1. The encroachment of the new porch of the carriage house into
the required setback is found to be more compatible to the
historic structure.
2. The applicant meets the required parking requirements and
should be reviewed by the Eng. Dept.
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HPC. MINUTES June 14, 1988
3. That the carriage house not be lifted up for foundation
repair or replacement purposes and remain situated on site and if
it is moved or lifted up then the applicant is required to come
back for further approval.
Nick second the motion. Ail favored. Motion carries.
FINAL D~v~LOPNENT IIE'VIE#-212 #. HOPKINS
Charles stepped down.
Roxanne: No changes have been presented from the revised
conceptual. He did reduce the height of the building and it came
up 5 3/4 inches almost to 22 ft. It is still lower and staff
finds that the additional inches are not a negative.
Jan Derrington: The shingles are charcoal gray and match the
shingles that are there. They will be using Marvin windows with
a factory baked on white finish. Windows will be single glazed
with storm panel on the inside. All the others that don't have
true divided lights are 3/4 inch insulating glass.
Bill: I have no problems with anything.
Bill: Roxanne is the application in order and do you feel
comfortable that you have all the back up material.
Roxanne: Yes.
Bill: I will entertain a motion that recommends final
development approval of 212 W. Hopkins finding the setback
variation to be more compatible.
MOTION: Nick, I so move.
carries.
Georgeann second the motion. Motion
FINAL DEVELOPMENT REVIEW-516 E. HY~h%N AVE.
Bill stepped down.
Roxanne: This is for the final development review of 516 E.
Hyman, the mouse house bldg. phase I and phase II. This includes
the entire demolition of the building and includes the
redevelopment of a commercial building, a one story of 2,250 sq.
ft. for the first floor which is considered phase I and Phase II
which is subject to GMP allocation is 2250 sq. ft. It is my
recommendation that if a motion be made that it include an
approval for Phase I and an approval for Phase II which includes
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Phase I so that the applicant does not have to come back before
HPC after they go through competition.
Georgeann: In other words so they can either build the whole
thing or build half of it either way.
Roxanne: At conceptual there were a few concerns: that
detailed representation of materials be made which they have
done. That the second floor central window be studied as to how
the window spacing may better relate to the historic upper story
window pattern and how these windows may give a stronger sense of
verticality. The windows originally presented were more
contemporary and were trying to read as a separate structure but
the revised fenestration shows picking up more of a design in
staffs opinion of the Pitkin Center Building and does address in
our opinion HPC's concern. It is an improved fenestration.
Also further study of how all the materials relate as to whether
it was picking up too much of the adjacent building or that it
wasn't reading enough of a separate structure. Also how the
steps and the railing go up to the Mason Morse bldg. which is
next door. I would like to deal with the triangular parapet
issue.
Kim Weil: The building is 15 ft. back from the property line
and I brought a model for the Board to review. The code says it
would have to sit 5 ft. behind Mason and Morse. Under the final
landuse code we do not have to conform to the open space rules.
We are able to reconstruct up to where the old building was which
was a 3 ft. setback. We need a 15 ft. setback. It is just ahead
of Mason Morse building but behind Pitkin Center. we would start
construction late July and early August. Sept. 15th we submit
for GMP.
Roxanne: As a one story structure it reads as OK. Staffs
concern regarding the parapet is yes they are found throughout
and they are used in new commercial structures to replicate some
victorian detailing. Just as an option maybe it is a little
dominant and needs softened. The parapet above the center floor
window I personally feel is a nice design. You will notice that
there are a double set of doors at the Main entrance into the
center area. The molding was square and rectangular which reads
more historic. The transom windows will be operable above the
doors.
Kim Weil: We will have an awning down below. We had thought
about using two different bricks so it appears that the center
mass comes through another mass. All four of the buildings are
relatively new. We want to keep it brick because it is in-fill
and it is only 60 ft. from Hyman and Galena St. Brick and
sandstone is important in the historic area. There would be
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HPC. MINUTES June 14, 1988
sandstone and brick banding. The back area one color and
part that sticks out a complimentary color. Our thought is
make it an understatement but stately.
Roxanne: The tile has been eliminated from the plan.
the
to
Nick: How will the wall look at Mason and Morse.
Kim: They have a real narrow stairway and we had to put the
wall up as we don't know if the tenants will be compatible. We
will do a planting area to soften the corner of the wall. We
would do a post type of sign in the planting area rather than
attaching something to the building. They have not seen the
design yet (Bob George). Somebody told me when he built the wall
it was to hide the building that was there. They did say they
would take it down when the development happened but I have not
been able to get a copy of their GMP. The side of Pitkin Center
is a finished wall.
Georgeann: I don't mind the parapets but I find the top of the
windows unfinished as most windows are capped.
Kim: I was trying to make it pseudo victorian with a serious
victorian, the double hung windows.
Georgeann: Which would be the light brick and which the darker.
Kim: I go back and forth but the darker brick is in the center.
Charles: We didn't get into the paving but that is part of the
recommendation.
Kim: I am going to do something to break up the concrete other
than just score it. The tinted concrete is not acceptable to
CCLC. We will do gray concrete with divided strips, possibly
turning the brick on edge.
Augie: Since the plaza area is contiguous, the Pitkin Center, I
think that yours should be the same and I would think the CCLC
would be in favor of that. To switch to another material would
be out of place.
Charles: The building would have more strength if the paving
blends in with the surrounding sidewalk.
Nick: Do you plan on snow melt.
Kim: Yes.
MOTION: Charles made a motion to recommend approval of the
demolition and final development at 516 E. Hyman Ave. for Phase I
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HPC. MINUTES June 14, 1988
and also recommend approval of final development for Phase II
which is subject to GMP allocation with the condition that the
applicant further study the plaza area paving issue with
modifications to the approved development plan being submitted
for staff review and approval. Augie second the motion. All
approved. Motion carries.
Adjourned 5:05
Kathleen J. Strickland
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