HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.hpc.19880712HPC.MINUTES.July 12, 1988
PRESENTATION ON "DEVELOPING A LOCAL TRUST"
ARA KIOSK
200 E. Main Pre-Application for Significant Development
715 W. SMUGGLER-APPLICANT: JENNIE LANG
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~IS~ORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE
MINUTES
City Council Chambers
1st Floor City Hall
July 12, 1988 2:30 p.m.
Meeting was called to order by chairman Bill Poss with Nick
Pasquarella, Georgeann Waggaman, Augie Reno, Joe Krabacher,
Charles Cunniffe, Charlie Knight and Zoe Compton present.
MO~ION: Charles made the motion to approve the minutes of June
28, 1988. Nick second. All approved. Motion carries.
COMMISSIONER COMMENTS
Roxanne:
meeting.
CLG funding will be presented at next Council and HPC
Joe: I'm requesting the final plans of 334. W. Eallam.
Carl Bergman: We are having an antique engine show in
conjunction with the ice cream social on July 17th 12:00 to 4:00
pm.
Nick: The preview display of the engine show at the Court House
is excellent.
MONITORING PROJECTS
Georgeann: The Stallard house windows are in and are very
satisfactory. Bill Lipsey's sculpture garden is just about
finished and it seems to be functioning and working well. There
have been a good response of people around it. I haven't
contacted McDonalds yet.
Nick: 113 E. Hopkins where we are going to move the house from
Spring St. to E. Hopkins there is a little bit of excavating
where they moved the pine tree and it is drying rapidly and needs
irrigated and the tree has picked up another 2 degree list to the
east. There are wires on it and possibly we should contact the
Parks Dept.
Roxanne: The existing home on lot K at 134 W. Hopkins will
receive the renovation of the plans that we approved. The other
home that was supposed to be moved right away apparently there is
some stalling going on and I don't know what the situation is. I
contacted Roger Kerr but have not gotten a response back yet.
They do know they are under a time constraint. I will have more
information later.
Bill: They did represent that as one project but is it in fact
two separate projects.
HPC.MINUTES.July 12, 1988
Roxanne: The Bldg. Dept. is allowing a separate building permit
to be let on the one existing property so she can begin doing
what we already approved. There would be another building permit
for the other site.
Bill: Do we need to inform the applicant that it was approved
for that one particular house and that if another house was to be
moved it might have to be re-approved.
Roxanne: We have already done that at the meeting when we gave
them final approval.
Augie: The garage at 513 W. Bleeker is framed up.
Zoe: Someone told me that McDonald's sidewalk has red dye in
the concrete.
Roxanne: We didn't address tint in the sidewalk.
Charlie: They were going to paint the bottom
the same color. They talked about repainting it
native sandstone.
of the building
the color of the
Zoe: We had been talking about sidewalks for that project and I
was wondering if that shouldn't have been mentioned.
Bill: We didn't review it and we have no purview over color.
Georgeann: I will look into it and report back.
Charlie: Possibly we need discussion about Main St. and an
inventory of what is there as we have a lot of residential style
buildings, box type office buildings and to me there is a
dichotomy of what perhaps is not to be a disneyland and what
perhaps is appropriate for the ambience of Main St. Perhaps we
need another district in the west end.
Roxanne: I just sent a report into the State regarding the
feasibility of districting some of the west end and we do need to
discuss the Comprehensive Plan and Guidelines regarding Main St.
Bill: I would recommend that we put time on the next agenda to
discuss this issue.
HPC.MINUTES.July 12, 1988
PRESENTATION ON "DEVELOPING A LOCAL TRUST"
Roxanne: One of the activities that is required in our 1987 CLG
grant contract is the feasibility study of the possibility of
developing a Local Historic Trust. I have invited Rebecca Waugh
to come speak to us on this topic to begin the dialogue process
among ourselves and the Historical Society and any interested
people. Many cities across the country have found a need to
create a nonprofit organization that can fill a void between
museum oriented historical society and a public oriented HPC. An
local historic trust can be invaluable in a number of ways, in
political advocacy revolving loan funds, realestate acquisitions
and a variety of issues that we right now do not have set up in
place. Rebecca Waugh is the Administrative Director of the
Summit County Historical Society primarily dealing in
Breckenridge.
Rebecca Waugh: My background is in design, education and Colo.
history. We are not political and a non-profit organization set
up similar to your Aspen Historical Society. We are partially
funded by the County and towns of Summit County. We have been
working hard on preserving the Breckenridge Historic District and
we consider that town an artifact. The Historical Society works
very close with the town of Breckenridge to preserve the town.
We do a lot of public relations work in the town. We have all
the information, photographs etc. that can turn a project around
and in the end preserve a building after they realize the
importance of the building to the town itself and that is our
role. The town of Breckenridge is on the national register of
historic places and there are over 350 structures and it is the
oldest community on Colorado's western slope. There are a lot of
mining phase and settlement phase architecture and it is
basically an all clapboard environment. We are at 9,600 ft. and
have been thru a series of booms and busts. It is a wonderful
example of a Colo. boom town. We have everything from the false
front buildings to delivery stables, miners cabins, and
victorian cottages. We have a whole residential district full of
these cottages with hand gig saw work. Many of the houses date
back to the 1970's with a lot of log work, clapboard etc.
Breckenridge is probably most famous for its Main Street, very
wide and it is one of the few towns that you can still drive
into in the state of Colo and actually see the town develop in
the three distinct phases that a Colo. boom town develop in.
There is early settlement phase architecture, log work done early
in the 1860's. The settlers were finding a lot of gold in the
Blue River around 1859. After the sawmill was developed the
settlers began to use false fronts on the buildings which is
visible as you move up Main St. The false front buildings were a
HPC.MINUTES.July 12, 1988
very quick type building where they threw up a few vertical
struts and put on vertical clapboard and that was your building.
So when you see them leaning to the left and to the right its not
because they are old its because they looked like that from day
one. Breckenridge with its economic ups and downs has been able
to preserve these examples of old architecture which in the
richer boom times they didn't want to preserve these buildings.
They wanted to put up more substantial architecture. At the south
end of Main St. you see a lot of the building environment that
happened after 1896 an introduction to the towns architecture.
We have an Irish, Swedish, German and Swiss districts, you can
see the european influence coming into the architecture. H.L.
Hilliard, one of the towns assayers weighed and cleaned "Tom's
Baby" Colorado's largest gold nugget in 1887. Edwin Carter was a
famous naturalist who collected over 3,000 species of animals and
donated them to the City of Denver to start the Museum of Natural
History. All the boom town churches are intact, Episcopal,
Father Dyer church, catholic church St. Mary's all are the style
of carpenter gothic. We have Italianate but instead of having
pressed tin and ironwork bolted up to the front of the building
we have wooden Italianate buildings. We have one piece of
colonial revival in the whole town, The Summit County Court House
which was built in 1908 after the town was done booming. We have
Roman and Queen work on the sister building to the court house,
the school. Only the most important buildings in town are built
out of brick and masonry; court house, school and the mining
supply store. We encourage the businesses to use the old houses
for their shops. We work directly with the Planning staff in
trying to preserve the old structures. To keep some of the
density out of the historic district we have two sides of town,
west Breckenridge where the red light district was and we have
the Breckenridge historic district. The historical society keeps
a file of people coming into town interested in purchasing the
old cottages when they come up for sale. We work with Northwest
COG to obtain low interest loans. We also have an adopted barn
program.
Zoe: Does Breckenridge have an historical commission.
Rebecca: They have a Planning Commission, Town Board and
myself.
Zoe: Where do you get your maintenance money.
Rebecca: Individuals leave wills; grants;
membership program; County Commissioners etc.
"bolt tax" for the purpose of marketing. My
cultural survey of the property.
fund raisers;
We also have a
job is to do a
HPC.MINUTES.July 12, 1988
Augie: How do you deal with the desire of the developer to
replicate buildings within the historic district.
Rebecca: We discourage it in Breckenridge and we have formal
guidelines that say we discourage replication of the past because
it was confusing our history. People were driving into town and
they didn't know if the houses were old or new. We decided to
keep the houses etc. that were special to us.
Bill: How do you deal with infil projects in the historic
district.
Rebecca: We encourage them to look at the whole block and take
from that block patterns, scale, shapes, etc. to try to make it
blend but not to try and replicate.
Charlie: How is the community reaction and legally how do you
deal with the trade offs for changing the density as we have such
strict zoning. In our community there is a pressure and expense
on each piece of realestate. Who makes that decision and have
you had black lashes.
Rebecca: We never had any black lash and also we down zoned the
historical district twice in seven years.
Charlie: We are finding that scale and massing to be the most
difficult thing for us to address due to the zoning laws that
allow for large buildings in relation to the size and average
historical building.
Rebecca: That has always been a problem and we down zone.
Zoe: On additions to historical structures that want to be
either replicated or have a contrast what do you favor.
Rebecca: We favor the contrast. We want them to be able to
make a distinction from the new and the old. We would want the
shapes and general scaling to be secondary to the original
building but we want people to be able to look at that building
in 100 years and be able to tell the original house from the
addition.
Zoe: What if someone wants a 2000 ft. addition to an old house
and says if you won't give it to me I'll tear the house down.
How do you deal with that.
Rebecca: We try to avoid that. That is my role to do the PR
and when we see that coming before that person even gets to the
planner that person has already seen me to at least consider
another alternative to demolition. Any press or media see me as
HPC.MINUTES.July 12, 1988
we are always selling the town and the history. We might even go
so far to pick that building up and put it up for adoption and
relocate it to another lot. Usually the developer pays to have
the building moved and in return we will give him some allowances
on his landscaping or something like that.
Georgeann: Do you have a design review board.
Rebecca: We have a planning commission that can say yes or no
to a design. The town of Breckenridge has a very stiff
development code and we have a guideline printed.
Bill: I would recommend that we set up a sub-committee of three
members from our Committee and three members from the Historic
Society to work with Roxanne to research setting up an historic
trust in town whether that be land, transfer density rights or
facade easements etc. Also set up an exchange program between
other historic societies and possibly meet a couple of times a
year to change information. Charles, Nick and Zoe volunteered.
ARA KIOSK
Roxanne: At the June 28th HPC meeting the recent installation
of the ARA kiosk was discussed with respect of the need for
design review. The design was considered inappropriate and the
entire structure appeared to list to the west. The purpose of
this meeting is to assist the ARA and give them direction for
kiosk development. HPC is very supportive of the activity
however we have concerns regarding the design and construction
quality of the structure. Staff concurs with HPC that the
design and construction quality of the particular structure does
not meet the standards of development that we are striving to
achieve in the community. We have developed a few alternatives
in the memo and we feel that a quality design kiosk would serve
the community well and could be used at other times of the year
serving a variety of functions and purposes. Our recommendation
is that the ARA apply for minor development review for a new
kiosk to be situated in the district. Scale drawings should be
required in the application and the Planning office also
recommends that HPC members offer whatever design ideas that you
feel are appropriate.
Tom Hines: It is appropriate that the Committee understand the
process. ARA did go to Council in Sept. 1987 and Council passed
and funded the kiosk with an approximately $5,600 budget of which
$1200 was to be used for construction. You aren't going to build
much for $1200. As far as permits I contacted Ron Mitchell and
he assured me that no permits were required as long as the
structure as temporary and did not contain any electrical or
HPC.MINUTES.July 12, 1988
plumbing and now I am hearing otherwise and I appreciate the
opportunity to be here and work together. We totally concur with
the assessment. Last week the kiosk was literally destroyed and
since has been rebuilt at almost the original construction costs.
It no longer lists to the west and now has a roof that doesn't
leak. One of the main reasons the kiosk was approved was to
relieve the impact at the Wheeler visitor center. We are seeing
in excess of 1,400 people a day which indicates that the kiosk is
working.
Bill: Our purview is over the aesthetic value and there is the
CCLC that would have to be informed of its location and what is
happening. It appears that it will get enough use and will
probably become a structure that is used quite often. We are
getting inquires from people on how this got approved in the
historic district.
Roxanne: I am recommending that we request a design and go a
little further and give him some direction of what we would like
to see.
Georgeann: I have looked at the structure and philosophically I
am not sure that it needs to be changed. We don't need
everything in this town to be "disneyland". If serves the
function of a temporary structure do we necessarily want
everything to be "designed up". Maybe having this that aren't
overly designed is part of what makes the town have a reality.
Zoe: I agree but if you would take that same little box and put
a better quality roof and wood on it would automatically become
more attractive.
Augie: I initiated this at the last meeting as it is not so
much the design that I have a problem with, it is the quality and
that reflects what has happened to that structure. It is a poor
quality structure that people aren't going to respect and I
anticipate that it will be there all summer and next summer and
will become a permanent fixture. I was not on HPC when you
reviewed the bus shelters but to me this particular structure is
very similar to what you put RFTA through and I would think that
you should have some continuity in the design for that structure
and the way it is going to be looked at.
Bill: As a method of compromise we could have a monitor on the
project to work with Tom and report back to us.
Augie: I feel due to the quality of the kiosk that in three
weeks you will have the same problem.
HPC.MINUTES.July 12, 1988
Bill: If the kiosk does come down again can we be of help Tom
to you.
Tom: The number of request for usage has become strong and I
don't want to see a lot of kiosks on the mall. I feel we will
want to continue the project next summer but I don't think it
should be this structure. Hopefully we can work on coming up
with a structure where other groups could actually work and use
it. The structure is due to come down around Aug. 25th and
hopefully we can live with that structure for a month. I would
rather see us work together to create a structure that is
acceptable to all of us for the future.
Roxanne: Maybe we can live with it at this point and possibly
the ARA could trade services with a member for some design and
that it come through us. I feel there is a great community
interest for a kiosk.
Bill: I feel the Committee would be willing to live with what
is there until Aug. 25th and then next year it would have to come
before us.
Roxanne:
design.
Our issue is quality of construction not necessarily
Georgeann: It has been proven that it does need to be made of a
more quality material; possibly get a larger budget from City
Council and help from other people.
Tom: I doubt if you will see this individual booth resurfacing
during the winter.
200 E. Main Pre-Application for Significant Development
Roxanne: The applicant is requesting preliminary information
from us as they wish to construct a 2250 sq. ft. two story
structure for office use on this site. It is a 3,000 sq. ft. lot
on lot K. The 1904 Sanborn map shows only a small one story out
building on this site. No other research in the Planning Office
has determined that there was any other building ever at that
site. I would recommend that the applicant research the
Historical Society's archives. The intent of the research was to
discover the size of the siting of any previous building that
might help direct new development actigify. In our opinion this
is an extremely aesthetic-sensitive site right in the Main St.
district, highly visible located across from the Sardy House and
diagonal from Paepcke Park. The 200 bock of East Main contains a
heavy concentration of historic residential structures primarily
vernacular miner's cottages. Ail the issues in the memo are
critical and must be thoroughly examined to make sure we are
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HPC.MINUTES.July 12, 1988
guiding him in the best possible development for this site. It
should be noted that although it is commercial and office zoned
the guidelines for residential should be reviewed. In examining
architectural compatibility , massing and styling for this site
staff draws HPC attention to the variety of historic structures
found in the immediate area specifically the Sardy House which is
a very elaborate Queen Ann and then you have Gracy's cottages
which are very modest one story miner's cottages with decorative
porches. The sketches reflect a two story structure, narrow
with steeply pitched, at least a 12/12 roof. The proposed
footprint does not encroach into required setbacks, however HPC
may wish to consider optional siting if the new development is
found to visually encroach into Gracy's buildings. The site plan
sketch reflects a 10' setback which is the required setback in
this zone district and the 5' side yard and the 15' rear yard
setbacks have been addressed on this. You may want to consider
the following questions at this particular meeting:
1. Does the design as presented reflect all the critical
compatibility issues as outline in the Guidelines, Comprehensive
Plan.
2. Is the height to dominant for the particular site.
3. Are the details, such as roof pitch, front entry and
fenestration appropriate and do these details relate to the
character of the Main St. Historic District.
4. Is the massing and alignment too severe for the site.
5. Would additional undulations on the west and east elevations
add more architectural interest to the structure.
6. Could increased depth of undulations soften the extreme
verticality and is the front yard setback appropriate to the
adjacent historic structures.
7. Specifically what materials might be utilized to set this
building off, allowing it to read as a new structure yet still
blend in compatibility.
Our recommendation is: We are very sensitive to the economic
needs of the applicant as stated to develop the site to its
maximum FAR potential, however, we feel the sensitivity of this
site in relation to the adjacent and neighboring historic
structures warrants further study to reduce the size of the
proposed building. It appears dominant for the site and slightly
incompatible in fenestration, which is a critical design issue.
Staff recommends that the applicant submit their full conceptual
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HPC.MINUTES.July 12, 1988
development application based on the direction given to them by
HPC at this meeting.
Bruce Sutherland, architect: The process that we have taken in
siting the building is we have set back more on the rear then
required as we plan to park at the rear of the building. We
intend to keep the side yard setback however we believe there is
an opportunity if we could encroach over into the side setback we
could open up the space between Gracy's or give a little more
detail on the fascia of the building. We are trying to create
an appearance that has a balance. We want to keep the building
simple and we do not want to be the dominant building on the
block. We also agree that this is one of the most important
corners in Aspen. At this time we aren't suggesting the
materials we are into however we are leaning towards masonry,
some stone and aggregate. So far we are leaning away from the
red type metal roof and anything that is wood so we are looking
toward something in the range of some type of asphalt shingle,
slate etc. that will not give the strong lines of the standing
rib roof or something of that nature. Those of you who are
designed oriented will realize the difficulty of doing a building
that is 17 ft. wide and 70 feet long and that is why we have
tried to break it up so it will read well coming around the
corner. We do not agree with staff on the reduction of the size
of the building in that this is a 3,000 ft. lot and we are only
suggesting putting 2250 sq. ft. We don't like the idea of
reducing the size of the building at all. We tried to stay along
in height with the balance of the adjacent buildings.
Bill: The setbacks you have shown for this district; are these
the minimum setbacks shown and do you know that in the code you
can offset those by the minimum going to one side as long as the
total is met.
Bruce: We have drawn this within the footprint of 5 ft. on this
side, 6'7" on this side and the dotted line indicates the 15'
rear and the front is 10' and we understand that we have some
freedom on the setbacks which we would probably do on the side
towards Aspen St. We would like to open this area between
Gracy's upon further study as we don't want to get too close to
the building.
Bill: What does the code say is the minimum setback.
Bruce: 10' on the front, 6'7" on the corner side, 5' on the
interior. The total 11'7
Bill: In the code only for historic reason does it allow us to
vary the setback.
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HPC.MINUTES.July 12, 1988
Bruce: Since we do have quite a distance between the street and
the building we would like to consider moving the building.
There is no sidewalk and we might want to look at having it come
along the curb in lieu of having the strip. We really haven't
addressed these things on the site plan yet.
Roxanne: This particular lot is designated.
Bruce: We have one site with three buildings on it.
Bill: Do we have a "vehicle" to help them vary the setbacks.
Roxanne: From my understanding, yes but Cindy Houben from the
Planning Office is looking into this for a variety of other
issues such as can a free standing building be built on this
3,000 sq. ft. lot in the way that it is particularly done right
now. There are a lot of questions connected with this.
Charles: We need to look into whether the variability of
setbacks is just for the R-6.
Roxanne: We did that with 300 W. Main St.
Bill: When we did rewrite that section of the code the intent
was for the historic overlay district and historic landmarks.
That the proposed development is compatible in character with
designated historic structures located on the parcel and with
development on adjacent parcels. We can vary the setbacks.
Don Fleisher, applicant: When we acquired this property we
looked at possibilities of extending onto Gracy's building as
being our development and I personally felt that if Gracy's was
an important historic structure that to modify it was demeaning
to it. I asked the architects to do something that was
compatible but quiet in terms of architectural style and in
particular stay away from Gracy's as much as possible.
Mary Martin: It is too far in front of Gracy's and shouldn't be
so tall. It should align in the front on the setback with
Gracy's because the building next to Gracy's will probably go
next and that whole block should be aligned up to the gas station
ultimately, I think.
Charlie: As one of the owners could you give us background: It
was my understanding that there were the two houses on the lot.
Do you have a master plan for us to look at so we can anticipate
what perhaps might happen as you had brought up that you would
like to see the integrity of the two existing victorians stays
and this be a third building.
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HPC.MINUTES.July 12, 1988
Don Fleisher: There are no plans for any changes to Gracy's.
After the building is built the improvements will be
condominiumized and two people will own the corner building and
two other people will own Gracy's building and the land on all
three lots will remain merged as three lots on one parcel with
condominium ownership.
Bill: So it will always come back to us as one project and we
would review each individual building. Are you going to ask for
FAR for each individual building as an individual lot or would we
see the building to the east ask for all the FAR on that one lot.
Don: When this building is finished the three lots total will
have unused FAR. The people who own Gracy's building could come
back and ask for something.
Bill: So we are setting a design standard for those three
buildings. My thought is how are we going to accept those
buildings. If the committee is going to say we wish to see that
those buildings stay on that site and would not allow them to
move then we can make valued judgments on this one parcel.
Don: The ownership of Gracy's could change.
Zoe: I was assuming that those little buildings would stay
there. At some point a model would be appropriate. All masonry
might be too severe because of what is around you, possibly stone
and wood. The height is too dominant and the building should
align with Gracy's on Main St and the design of it is not
offensive but it doesn't add any character to its surroundings.
The massing is a little severe and further study is necessary.
Charles: I think it should align with Gracy's and less high.
Perhaps there is a way to work with the setbacks to allow it to
get a little wider so that in the street alignment facades it
looks more compatible with the other two buildings in massing so
it is not as high but it is a little wider.
Zoe: Possibly on the Aspen St. elevation maybe that could be
split into two buildings and not so long.
Georgeann: The alignment with the other stores is critical and
the reason for that is people drive into town you don't want that
blocking the Gracy's building. I feel clapboard or wood siding
would be more appropriate and the reason is we want to keep a
residential look on Main St. The height could be articulated in
a way; perhaps it looks so high because there is that tall
narrow element and possibly you could modify the design. I am
not unhappy with pulling that one section out to the side but I
would like to narrow up the back a little bit by a few feet so
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HPC.MINUTES.July 12, 1988
you de-emphasized that in relationship to the front part of the
building. It is very severe now and looks too commercial but I
presume that will be taken care of with further work on the
design. I don't think we want a commercial look on the buildings
along Main St. when they get this far out of town. The
fenestration is very harsh and very large for this part of town.
Nick: I agree with the fenestration criticism that Georgeann
made and I don't find the building too high. I look at the scale
and it is a little higher than the other buildings but if that
is what will put that corner into something that it isn't right
now I'm not against it. The long high windows do give me a
feeling that they don't fit with the small or narrow tall
building. As far as setback is concerned it is not that much out
of alignment. How necessary is it that it align up on Main St.!
Joe: As far as the siting goes I would prefer to see the line
or even setback a little further from Gracy's buildings. As far
as varying the side yard setbacks maybe it would be more
appropriate to have a little more spacing between the Gracy's
building. On the elevations I find it a little high. From the
Aspen St. side it seems very massive from that elevation.
Augie: Setbacks should relate to Gracy's. I would be in favor
of allowing the setback on the west side to go out a little more.
The building is a bit too tall. I'd favor some kind of
pedestrian walkway on the west side going north. I think the
materials of the building should relate more to Gracy's and the
other building. I'd prefer the lower drawing, alternate with the
fenestration of the more vertical windows but the rear half of
the building needs to be broken up a little bit more as it is too
massive.
Bill: I concur and I would also be in favor of varying the
setbacks to allow you to get more variation in the building. I
don't find the very long tall building to be compatible with the
other structures not only adjacent to your site but across the
street. The Explorer Booksellers is a renovated residence, Sardy
House is a residence and you have small commercial which we
allowed, Little Cliff's Bakery. They are all in a very similar
scale so to be in support of varying the setbacks to get a rhythm
to the street which is more compatible in width and height of
your adjacent buildings I would be very much in favor and I think
the Committee is also supporting that. I would be in favor of
some height allowing you to go two stories but I don't think it
should be to the whole building so by varying it I would like to
see some roof lines that would be a transition between single
story buildings on your site and the Sardy House which is two
story and longer. There is some compromise within the Committee.
Since that is a main street and we are addressing sidewalks I
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HPC.MINUTES.July 12, 1988
think Aspen St. is a collector street for the elementary school
below but we don't know if the elementary school is going to stay
there. To get the sidewalks and ask them to go down is going to
be tough to do but if you are going to bring in offices etc. you
might need to do that.
Bruce: I think we would like to have a sidewalk on the Aspen
St. side probably at the curb in lie of having that little strip
Georgeann: Perhaps we have to look at sidewalks as sidewalks
were something in the victorian eras but they wandered and did
different things and they weren't pieces of concrete. Maybe
what we need to look at in sidewalks is when it becomes off the
main street the sidewalks that move, turn, undulate, different
materials, something that softens it and it becomes part of the
landscape. I would like to compliment you on saying you don't
feel you need to make a landmark everywhere that this can be a
quiet building.
Don: What you see there is what zoning allows, you do your
setbacks, height you end up with a long pullman car type
building. From our point of view we also have to look at
function and be able to operate out of it. This will be an
office building and each room will have a series of windows.
Bill: I think you will come up with a whole new building after
our comments from today.
Charlie: When they come back I'd like to see a little more of
the master plan on what they anticipate happening with the rest
of the lot and what the FAR is on the existing buildings and
potentially what would be there so we have an idea of what we
would be facing if there were additions put on the back of the
Gracy's.
Don: When we went into partnership with the Carters they made
it clear to me that they were not going to do anything to
Gracy's.
Charlie: I feel the continuity of this building should be a
little more aligned to Gracy's block then the other historic
building and the personality of that building right now is not
addressing that.
Georgeann: Since I asked you to kind of make this skinnier a
thought to consider: perhaps the entrance could be separate
entrances or something to the offices so you don't have to worry
about corridors and that might change the character of the look.
Don: You have a series of rooms that are 10' by 11' in size and
a four foot corridor for all offices.
14
HPC.MINUTES.July 12, 1988
Bill: What you are doing here you could have the potential to
set how the development develops with the other buildings where
if you make it look like two separate buildings. What we are see
are a lot of victorians that have two story additions added onto
the back. We have not found a successful solution that allows
the small victorian miner cottages to keep their own identity
without "big brother" peering up out of the back. That is what
Charlie is alluding to.
Charlie: What about below grade.
Don: We are not putting in a basement as we want to keep the
building down as far as possible.
Bruce: We could add another 750 sq. ft. to the zoning ordinance
by putting on-site housing but we are not going to put housing on
the site.
Bill: I feel the commission has given you some leeway in
setting the setbacks and we are looking forward to seeing you in
a couple of weeks.
715 W. SMUGGLER-APPLICANT: JENNIE LANG
Bill: This is a public hearing for the conceptual development
review of 715 W. Smuggler. Jennie Lang is representing the
applicant.
Roxanne: The applicant is requesting significant development
review and it involves a partial demolition of three 8' by 10'
walls that are not original to the rear of the structure and the
attachment of a two story addition with a new single carport
freestanding and a mostly-restored front porch with repositioned
front entry and an added gable. All the required setbacks have
been met and no additional bedrooms are proposed, creating the
need for additional parking spaces. This structure was relocated
to this lot approximately 20 years ago. The applicant and staff
has attempted to research its original siting and we have not
uncovered the mystery as of yet. By determining its original
location the possibility of finding archive photos for the
structure is more likely therefore aiding in the actual
restoration. The 1904 Sanborn Ins. Map do not even include
Block 15, so I can't tell you what was there originally. No
footprint information is available. When the structure was
relocated to this particular site a new foundation was built
which is quite a bit higher then he original foundation
therefore the front is accessed by five steps. The front
entrance as it exists right now is not historic as it currently
stands and it comes in thru the side and the porch is enclosed
right now. It is the opinion of the Planning Office that the
15
HPC.MINUTES.July 12, 1988
proposed development is mostly compatible in character for the
designated structure. The addition will be located well to the
rear of the property with only minor demolition going on of those
three walls as proposed. Compatible and matching materials will
be utilized and the details of the original home will be
preserved. The verticality theme is carried through with the
new addition and the existing roof pitch is replicated. The new
addition appears compatible with the original structure and does
not compete with the historic facade of the original house in our
opinion however the lot does slope up to the north and the new
additions completed height will be 26.6 ft. at the roof ridge and
22. ft. at the median point. A reduction in addition height
would be more compatible and less dominant to the historic
building in staffs opinion. The proposed south elevation of the
new addition consists of a two-story six sided mud room.balcony
which is about 8 ft. in diameter. It is mostly hidden from the
front of the existing house. The remainder of the south
elevation is 16' wide and includes a 7' oriel window on the
second floor. The proposed car port which is a free standing car
port are ten' by 15' will be open on three sides. I believe that
Jennie brought along design and the materials will match the new
addition. A 12 x 12 roof pitch is proposed with some decorative
shingles and that needs to be addressed. Interestingly on this
site two historic outbuildings are encroaching just a few feet
on the east rear portion of this site. These outbuildings are
primarily situated on Lot G, apparently owned by an out-of-state
property owner who owns the property at 700 W. Francis.
Neighbors have filed complaints with the City Manager's office
regarding the poor state of the vacant lots immediately to the
east of this particular parcel. The complaints focus on the
weeds and dilapidated outbuildings. The applicant has stated to
us that she is very concerned about them and wishes those
outbuildings to be preserved and possibly by having them moved
slightly off of the Lot F they encroach move back and be totally
encompassed onto the other owners property therefore that carport
will be able to be addressed without encroaching. The owners
will begin dialogue necessary to accomplish that task. Historic
neighborhood character is greatly influenced by front facades in
the west end and front porches are very important to that and
staff agrees with the applicants desire to re-orient the front
porch entry to align directly from Smuggler into the house
however feels that accurate porch restorations is an important
element of the development of this site. An accurately restored
front porch is necessary to balance out the development activity
in the rear in our opinion and the proposal reflects that a new
gable addition to the front porch will be added projecting nearly
four feet from the original facade. From standard ~4 regarding
architectural integrity we find that the proposed porch and the
height of the addition does diminish to some degree the
architectural integrity of the structure. We refer to the
16
HPC.MINUTES.July 12, 1988
Guidelines; specifically to maintain front porches as an
important facade element; to preserve original porch materials
with decorative elements not know to have been used on the
residence, that should be avoided. The applicant has an
opportunity to restore the front facade of the miners cottage
while adding to the new addition to the rear and porch
restoration is strongly encouraged and will help increase the
integrity of the original structure.
Height; Staff feels that the general design is good however
reduction in height is warranted; the compatibility issue with
the original home. Regarding partial demolition we find that the
review standards for demolition 4 through 6 have been met. It is
a minor demolition and will clean up that rear south elevation.
I have included a variety of alternatives which HPC may wish to
take at this meeting and our recommendation is that the HPC
approve conceptual development for this particular project
subject to the following conditions:
1. That the applicant further study the front porch design to
restore the original and return to the HPC with revised plans and
that the height of the addition be reduced to be more compatible
with the original historic structure. That accurate major
building materials representation be made at Final Development
Review and that a structural response letter be submitted with
the Final Development. We also recommend that the property owner
assist in preserving the two outbuildings that presently encroach
and if moving the structures is found, to do so they could be
moved slightly over to lot F and if that is found to be the best
possible action then staff would support such activity.
Jennie Lang: I have done research and we have not been able to
locate any pictures of the house. We do know where it was
located. It was moved from the 600 block of E. Hopkins.
Bill: Welton Anderson was involved with that and may be able to
help you.
Jennie Long: I have no idea what that porch looked like
originally. Ann Miller is the owner of the house noted that the
previous owner of the house did enclose the porch.
Charlie: On your FAR review I assume this house when it was
moved a new foundation and basement were put underneath it. Will
all the additional footage be added to this number the way the
basement is set up under the current regulations.
Jennie: It is counted, the percentage of the basement is
included in the FAR.
17
HPC.MINUTES.July 12, 1988
Zoe: Is this designated.
Roxanne: It is designated and I will find out the rating.
Georgeann: Is the porch going to be moved out further.
Jennie: We are proposing to build out a little cover over top
of the stairs. The stairs will come directly out of the porch
and the pediment will come out as there is a bad snow situation
that being the north side of the house.
Bill: This is a public hearing and I will take comments from
the public.
Bill: Heather Tharp who lives at 712 W. Francis St. which is
right behind the building presented letter to commission.
Letter attached in records.
Heather: Is the apartment in that building still going to be
existing.
Bill: That would be a zoning issue that would have to be
addressed when you go to the Bldg. Dept.
Bill: Public Hearing is closed.
Joe: I would like to see the ultimate design differentiate
from what is the new addition and what is the existing structure.
I would like to see the porch retained as much as possible but
without photographs it might be difficult to do. On the entry
way of the back it may be a little too much for what is supposed
to be a miners cottage. The height of the addition concern me,
it sort of overpowers the original structure.
Georgeann: I feel it is valid to have a cover over the porch
steps and the porch in the front should be kept simple and
materials should match. I would say that materials should match
in the back also because this is so minor. I don't see that it
is encroaching all that much on the open space because the length
of the building until you get to the hexagonal tower is what is
already there. I do think with strong neighborhood comments that
the addition in the back should be kept as small as possible.
Most of the addition is over the open deck in the back.
Jennie: The reason we decided to go up was because we didn't
want to destroy the yard and the client wants a garden and
intends to replace the railings.
18
HPC.MINUTES.July 12, 1988
Georgeann: I do think it is too high and I don't understand why
it has to be that high when it is already a two story building.
I think the hexagonal tower is inappropriately too elaborate for
the design of the front of the building.
Charles: My comment is in regards
height be reduced by the addition of
allow you to have the head room.
to the height. Could the
a dormer on either side to
Jennie: I could but I feel the impact of the dormer from the
front of the house would be more severe then the height that you
see going back because you are seeing a sloping roof.
Charles: If the gable is still where it is but dropped down and
two small dormers one on either side to give you the space that
you need for a room.
Jennie: The pavement is considerably lower in elevation and you
are looking up at the house when you are standing on the
pavement. It is a sloping site plus the house was put on a
foundation which raised it out of the ground.
Charles: What is the purpose of the tower.
Jennie: There is a hot tub up there.
Zoe: The compatibility with the original structure is excellent
and your neighbors comments are very valuable. The basic idea is
excellent and I feel the front porch should be restored to where
you think it was originally. The turret is the only thing that
bothers me as it is a little too over powering for the area
itself. The addition is beautiful but could be slightly shorter
and not quite so tall. You should be sensitive to your neighbors
and your neighbors should be sensitive to your need also to
acquire a compromise. The outbuilding should be moved and
preserved.
Charles: In looking at this it seems to me that it slopes to
the south, the back of the house is towards the mountain. Is
there anyway to step down so that on the inside you walk a few
steps down and then go up two stories so it wouldn't be so high.
Jennie: There is a full basement.
Charlie: I think the original house should be restored as close
as possible to what it was and that the addition be compatible.
I agree with staff that because this building was set on a
foundation and is about three feet higher then it normally would
be that the two story addition is overwhelming. I would like to
see a scale of the neighboring house to the west. The scale in
19
HPC.MINUTES.July 12, 1988
relationship to the neighborhood is important to us and we can't
see it from the drawings.
Augie: I agree with everything
porch should be reconstructed
possible.
Charlie just said. I think the
to as close the original as
Jennie: How do we determine that.
Augie: If you can't find anything in the Historical Society's
Records look at buildings of that era and that type.
Jennie: Open porches into the livingroom these days are not
practical to the occupant of the house in terms of heat loss. We
were trying to create only a section of the porch open. One
section that you walk into, that is open and the other one we put
a railing across and glass enclosure.
Augie: I won't argue that but I think because we have a
structure that has some value the integrity of the building is
very important more so than energy at least from this Boards
standpoint. The addition seems a little too high; the shape of
the turret does not relate to the original building, possibly
rectangular or something else more compatible.
Bill: I tend to agree with the Committee that although I
sympathize with the applicant for snow shedding maybe there is
another solution. Most of the miners cabins I am not that aware
of a gabled pediment, they intended to be more on the larger
houses. In the past the Committee has debated the openness of
the porches and we haven't come to resolution on the airlock
entries. We have been promoting open porches and the airlock
entry should happen on the inner side of the house. I tend to
agree with Augie on the back that the addition seems to be not
compatible with the addition although they have similar roof
shapes I think maybe you could reduce the height almost by the
front window on a smaller or the existing house you can see it
penetrates the eave line and go up into that space so maybe that
roof can come lower and we could have more of an attic space. I
also would like to see the octagon more compatible historically.
Maybe if you reduced the height the neighbors would be more in
favor of it.
Ann Miller, Owner: I am very sensitive to my neighbors. We
want to keep the victorian feeling of the house. If you feel the
turret is too big I'm sure we can see if it can be changed.
There is a lot of garden and I have dogs. There are two houses
on Francis, three or four house in back of me and not one has a
garden. I am the only one with a garden. The architects were
2O
HPC.MINUTES.July 12, 1988
very sensitive to keeping the feeling of the neighborhood and the
feeling of the house.
MOTION: Charles made the motion to recommend that we approve
conceptual review for this house with the following conditions:
1. Applicant further study the front porch design to restore the
original and return to HPC with revised plans.
2. That the height of the addition be reduced to be more
compatible with the original historic structure, at least that
should be studied.
3. Accurate major building materials representation be made at
Final Development Review.
4. A structural response letter be submitted with the Final
Development Application and the turret element be studied
further.
Nick second the motion.
Charlie: Should we include the plans that show the car port
etc. and relationships of the other buildings, footprint.
Charles: Many times we ask for fenestration study or
neighboring context in relation to the lot etc.
Georgeann: Then we want three things it: more readable plan,
elevations of the buildings which include the garage, context of
the neighborhood elevation.
AMEI~)ED~ Charles amended the motion
made by Georgeann. (marked in Bold).
Motion carries.
to include the three points
Nick second. Ail approved.
Bill closed the public hearing.
Roxanne: Do we want to address the outbuildings.
Meeting adjourned at 5:00 p.m.
Kathy Strickland, Deputy City Clerk
21
July 12, 1988
Mr. Bill Poss, Chairman
Members
Historic Preservation Committee
City of Aspen
130 S. Galena Street
Aspen, Colorado 81611
Dear Mr. Poss and Members:
I wish to register my protest at the demolition and significant
development being applied for at 715 W. Smuggler Street in Aspen.
I support the concept which resulted in the formation of the
Historic Preservation Committee. This concept reflects the
feeling of Aspenites that there is value in keeping and preserving
the flavor of old Aspen. The West End epitomized this flavor
with its porches, pretty yards and above all, its open space -
which distinguishes country from city - where one could walk
around the neighborhood, see people that you knew, communicate
with them and feel as though you were a part of a small town
filled with friendliness.
I feel that this development being applied for at 715 W. Smuggler
will be destructive to our environment. A two-storied, 837 square
foot addition would take up most of the ground in back of this
housee
This is a residential area that was designed
for a certain size house and when people buy a house and lot in
the West End, any changes should maintain the scale of the
original house. If someone wants a large house, let them purchase
a large lot with a large house. Why should the HPC make an
exemption for those persons who buy a house in Aspen for its
"charm," then proceed to destroy that very charm by turning
their environment into exactly what they left in Lake Forest,
Tampa, Los Angeles, or wherever? The Committee's existence
then becomes meaningless.
Aspen is beginning to take on the look of city apartments and
townhouses. The new addition to the house opposite me at 700
W. Francis has eaten up every bit of earth and grass. The
house at 715 W. Smuggler proposes to do the same. Much of my
neighborhood now has fencing around the very large, always
two-storied houses, which almost always fill the lot lines.
Aspen is fast becoming an all-of-a-piece wooden structure,
divided only by roads.
page two
I PROTEST
the size of this proposed addition
the desecration of Aspen by those who move
here for its charm and then proceed to destroy
that very charm
Sincerely,
/
Heather Tharp
712 W. Francis Street
Aspen, Colorado 81612