HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.hpc.19880412HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE
MINUTES
City Council Chambers
1st Floor City Hall
April 12, 1988 2:30 p.m.
Meeting was called to order by chairman Bill Poss with Nick
Pasquarella, Patricia O'Bryan, Zoe Compton, Charles Cunniffe,
Charlie Knight, Augie Reno and Joe Krabacher present. Georgeann
Waggaman was excused.
MOTION: Nick made the motion to approve the minutes
22, 1988. Second by Charles Cunniffe. Motion carries.
COMMITTEE MEIqBER ~ STAFF COMMEI~TS
of March
Roxanne: It is my recommendation that we add 222 E. Hallam,
Amato house to the agenda and it is public noticed for the 26th
of April.
Bill: When we reviewed 222 E. Hallam
approval we had tabled it to be reviewed at
are asking to be put on today's agenda for
under the demolition
this meeting and they
redevelopment review.
MOTION: Charles made the motion to review conceptually 222 E.
Hallam. Charlie second the motion. All approved except Pat.
Motion carries.
Roxanne: I attended the state historic preservation office in
Denver and an historic landscape seminar and will be sending you
a memo. We are researching some historic landscapes and
materials that were used in mining towns. The preservation forum
is scheduled for May 10th during preservation week at the Pitkin
library 7:00 to 9:00 pm.
Augie: We owe it to the citizens from the continuity
standpoint to have people here on the Board so that over the
period of preliminary and final submissions you have the same
group of people for the most part so that you don't get
differences of opinion back and forth. I would urge that you
Bill as the chairman would enforce the rules on behalf of the
citizens.
Bill: I have a note from Kathy that if we do hold meetings at
different times it has to be done by a motion at the previous
meeting so notification can be made in the paper.
Nick: I would like to thank the City Council for inviting us to
the evening at Primivera.
Nick: I looked at the roof at Elli's and they moved the cooler
that we were concerned about and I believe we will be getting a
HPC.MINUTES. April 12, 1988
proposal to add some other equipment on that same roof so we all
should be aware of this meeting this afternoon.
222 E. ~ALLAM-AMA~O R~DEVELOPMEI~ PLAI~
Charles stepped down.
Richard Kline, project architect: I'm presenting drawings of
the revised proposed residence based on comments from the Board
and the previous meeting. We have supplied you with a massing
study which incorporated trees that exist on the site; Mona
Frost's house to the left and the proposed Amato in the center
and the Vigoda house on the other side. We have tightened up the
house considerably; it has less height. We have used hip roof
forms to tighten the massing even further and lowered the second
story plate down to six feet. We have used the form of Mona
Frost's house as our gable roof form and it is the same width and
same height. Mona Frost's house is 18 ft. wide and our house is
the same and the Vigoda house is 25 feet wide. Because of the
lower plate on the second story we have dormer windows that
project into that massing and that is taken from the Vigoda
house. The house is smaller in scale and the way we did this was
to remove the second story bedroom and put it in the back on the
first floor. We actually didn't lengthen the house at all. The
house is in keeping with the scale of the neighborhood. We have
reduced the amount of detail substantially from the first house
and the only real trim is the horizontal banding that occurs
across the front gable end at the livingroom to tie together the
porch roof. In back the garage was originally to massive and we
eliminated the roof on the garage and it is a deck now to bring
the scale down. We have tried to address all concerns of the
previous meeting.
Nick: Please repeat the dimensions of Mona's house, the new
house and the Vigoda house.
Richard: The closest areas that project toward the street,
Mona's is 18ft, Amato 18 ft. and Vigoda 25 ft.
Charlie: What is the height of the top gable.
Richard: 28 ft. to the rear ridge and the gable is even with
Mona Frost's house which is about 20 ft. The Glidden house is
about 26 ft.
Steve: The old plans were 29 ft. to the pitch of the top roof.
Zoe: How many square feet are you adding.
Richard: We are under our FAR and about 3,200 sq. ft.
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HPC.MINUTES. April 12, 1988
Bill: What did the existing house have.
Richard: Close to 2,400.
Bill: We wouldn't be able to pass on this today we would table
it until the next meeting.
Roxanne: I would like to know their goal and what they are
looking for.
Richard: We have created a very complimentary house to the
neighborhood and this is the house we would like to see approved.
Steve: Don Westerlind stated the existing house was 2,000 sq.
ft. and 420sq. ft. for the work shop.
Charlie: I think you have scaled it more to the streetscape
that is appropriate.
Bill: I would look at the west elevation, although it is held
back which I like, it seems like one long wall. I like what I
see overall on the reduction of the new proposal.
Richard: Would it be appropriate to have Mona Frost review
these drawing and comment to that elevation adjacent to her.
Bill: I don't want to shade her too much but there may be
nothing that you can do and the trade off's might be fine.
Bill: I like the use of the hip with a cross cable coming out
and historically that is a good roof shape. I would be looking
at the round top windows on the front also, we won't want it to
look like a replication.
Zoe: What about the oval window.
Richard: It is a window and a door and it could be square if
you would rather have something like that; it comes out onto
the porch off the master bedroom above the entry.
Zoe: I also have a problem with the arched windows; possibly a
double hung plain window and not look so gingerbready. I also
feel the presentation is excellent and the scaling is good.
Richard: We tried to eliminate most of the gingerbread trim
work.
Augie: The massing fits into the neighborhood. To me it is
too similar to victorian; I would have rather seen something
that is related but could be defined as something different.
3
, HPC.MINUTES. April 12, 1988
Zoe: This style of house fits the client, they want a victorian
home.
Patricia: What are the dimensions of the footage across the
front in relations to Mona's house.
Richard: It is the same 18 feet.
Joe: I feel they have addressed
had, reducing the complexity of
strongly about the window issue.
a number of concerns that we
the windows. I don't feel
Patricia: Will the tree in front stay.
Richard: Yes.
Steve: I would like to note that the building is only one foot
shorter than was presented at the prior meeting and massing is
still of concern.
Patricia: Will you have a model next time.
Richard: If the Board desires.
Roxanne: I would like a summary in letter form for the next
meeting of what you presented today in comparing what is new to
what you previously presented on the 22nd.
Charlie: I have a question on the rear yard setback to the R-6
zone, the 6,000 feet that you are trying to work within. Are you
at 5 ft. with the garage.
Richard: The Planning Office indicated that there was no
problem locating part of that garage in SCI zone.
Charlie: As big as that house is if you set it back it will
help in massing.
Bill: The consensus of the Board is that a model is not
necessary and the drawings are very detailed.
Zoe: It is a complete and concise presentation.
334 W. HALLA~-GREENHOUSE SUNSPACE AND CARRIAGE HOUSE RENOVATION
Bill stepped down.
Trish Harris: We would like to add a sunspace to the east side
of the house. The clients were very disappointed that they could
not do the sunspace addition to their house. We are submitting
4
HPC.MINUTES. April 12, 1988
the same plan. We are using the same size as the window that is
there right now for an opening out of the library portion of the
house and using that as a corridor to go back and forth to the
kitchen. The sun space addition will not obstruct any of the
primary facade which is the south elevation of the house. We are
adding the sunspace to the east side of the house which is low
level of viewing. It will not make that much of an impact on the
house. It is a transparent addition, all glass. We are keeping
away from the front part of the house and moving it back about
three feet from the corner of the house from both ends so the
corner board detail of the house is not obstructed. The existing
trim will remain with the removal of the window making it longer
for a doorway to come back and forth to the sunspace. We believe
that we are not obstructing any historic detailing with this
addition. We are adding it on to the siding of the house. The
remainder of the sunspace will be added onto the addition of the
house.
Roxanne: On March 8th HPC reviewed that no changes be made to
the windows on the south, east, and west elevation of the
original structure. The recommendations made by staff that were
approved were specific that the greenhouse addition be re-
designed to be inconspicuous as possible with no damage done to
the original historic structure and attaching the greenhouse only
to the newer addition and limiting its size and scale and that
the cottonwood on the east side yard be retained.
Trish: The Parks Dept. said they would approve the removal of
the tree condition to our adding three new trees to the landscape
design of the house.
Roxanne: Additions such as this type make a strong impact and
every effort should be made to mitigate the effect that its
installation will have. Greenhouses should be placed where they
do the obscure the primary facade. Primary facade can mean the
street facade or in my opinion this particular elevation is a
very important facade as street view goes. The plans submitted
have not changed from the original and they show the sunspace in
the same location attached to the original structure with the
removal of the original lower level window. By attaching it the
original details will be destroyed which is not in keeping with
the guidelines. Alternatives for the placement of the sunspace
have not be adequately addressed. The Planning Office recommends
that HPC uphold its original motion requiring the attachment of
the sunspace to the new addition and that no changes be made to
the south, east, west elevation windows and if necessary further
study of the sunspace attachment.
Charlie: Is the roof made up off metal and the arches are glass
5
HPC.MINUTES. April 12, 1988
on the ends and they tunnel back to the sidewalk. Is the
remainder of the roof flat or what.
Trish: Slightly pitched for drainage and is insulated.
Charlie: How tall is it.
Trish: About 12 feet.
Charlie: This house is in relatively good shape and I tend to
agree with staff that its positioning is going to infringe on the
historic character of this house.
Augie: I have no problem with the greenhouse because it is not
on a significant side of the building and you can tell what is
the existing building and what is the greenhouse. If you could
keep the window to just an opening into the library instead of a
door so the actual opening of the window stays the same.
Trish: It will just be an opening.
Nick: You don't want them to use that as a doorway.
Patricia: I'm concerned about the tree, saving the old tree
rather than three new ones. The greenhouse is on a less
important side of the house. The tree is my major concern.
Zoe: After visiting the site the existing structure is going to
be restored and the east elevation is minimal exposure. The
applicant wants the sunporch here and I don't think it will
effect the historical integrity of the house. The tree trade off
is fine as long as you get substantial trees. I'm in favor of
the placement of the greenhouse.
Trish: We will work with the landscape architect.
Joe: I don't have a problem with the sunroom but the placement
is so close to the front of the existing house, only three feet
back and that is a definite concern. My other concern is the
same as Charlie's the way the windows are impacted on the second
story of the existing house.
Zoe: The arches bother me because they are crowding the one
window.
Trish: The arches on the greenhouse enable the light to come
into the space and make it open and airy. They carry on more of
a victorian feel to reflect the style of the house.
Joe: I only have a problem with the front arch.
HPC.MINUTES. April 12, 1988
Charles: What is the actual purpose of having the sunroom in
front of the library study as opposed to leaving it open to view.
Trish: When Marta and Frank use the library study they don't
want it to be right off the kitchen.
Marta, owner: We work out of our home and spend the morning
hours on the phone and the library will be where that work is
done. We also have people staying with us and it is nice to have
an area off the area where you are working to go and get away. I
don't want an area into the kitchen because it interferes with
the business feeling to have people coming in and out of the
kitchen with a door there. This is the most important part of
the house to us.
Charles: I wanted to know why you couldn't have the sunroom be
attached to the kitchen section to alleviate some of the
concerns of how close it us to the corner of the original house.
Marta: Then it is only functional for the kitchen.
is relief to be able to step away with the people
and sit down a little more informally.
The sunroom
you are with
Charles: My suggestion would be if you have the
try to pull back the front edge a little more than
and I have a little trouble with the bubble also.
opening there
shown so far
Marta: We are trying to stay in character and it is as
important to us and it is for you. It is the only side of the
house that we can expand on.
Trish: This we feel is a compliment to the neighborhood without
obstruction too much of the detail. As far as the arches we can
look at other configurations.
Nick: You have made some effort to move the greenhouse back and
the fact that you are willing to talk about the arches gives us
the feeling that we might reach some compromise.
Roxanne: My concerns are any destruction of any feature of the
original house in making a door out of a window; I'm concerned
about that. I'm also concerned about the location of the
greenhouse. I had talked to Trish about possibly giving you the
same amount of square footage with the sunspace but just making
it a different shape instead of long and rectangular but then the
issue is the floor space and how do you deal with it through the
library. Originally we had asked for some other plans so we
could see what the alternatives were.
7
HPC.MINUTES. April 12, 1988
Nick: Not having gotten anything back as alternatives I can
only ask for a motion with some stipulations.
Augie: Can you live with leaving that window the way it is but
yet leaving the greenhouse in the same configuration so
essentially you don't have a passage you just have an opening
window so you get the light and look into the greenhouse.
Marta: For our lives it is very difficult because that space is
very functional.
Zoe: This house is a #5 which means it is one of the nicest
victorians in Aspen. From the Department of Interiors standards
when you alter the exterior of the house, by putting something on
it and augmenting it, starting to make doors out of windows that
is where the concern is coming from. I don't know what else you
would do as you have to get in somehow.
Charlie: You are either going to allow them to do this or
you're not. I think we should go into a motion and at that time
we can still make a conditional on the review of the roof line.
MOTION: Charlie made the motion to allow the greenhouse on the
eastern facade of 334 W. Hallam as designed in its footprint
allowing the applicant to join the library to the greenhouse
altering the eastern side window to a door provided however that
the roofline is brought to the Committee for further review.
zoe second the motion.
Augie: Do you want to clarify that the door becomes the same
width of the window.
Marta: Maybe a few inches wider than the window as the window
is very small.
Charlie: I will amend the motion to have the window altered to
a door and that should be reviewed.
Joe: The motion is to allow them to attach the greenhouse to
the original structure but they will not be required to change
the position of the greenhouse addition but to study the
rooflines and changing the window to a door.
Nick: Ail approved. Nick, Zoe, Augie, Charles yes. Joe,
Patricia, Charlie no. Motion carries 4-3.
Trish: We would like to clarify our position on the carriage
house. Our structural engineer said that the carriage house
would need extensive renovation. What might happen is that you
HPC.MINUTES. April 12, 1988
would just see the skeleton of the house. The siding is not in
very good shape at all and we will save what boards we can to
incorporate with the new siding and we also are going to remove
the new existing roof of the carriage house because it needs new
roof rafters to withstand the loads. There is an 8 inch cinder
block all the way around the house sitting on an 8 inch concrete
pad. We are unsure about the stability of that. We would
probably have to pour a new foundation. I want everybody on the
Committee to know that this may happen in order to reuse this
structure.
Steve: We have discussed this as to whether it constitutes
complete demolition. I would request the applicant to present
that plan and allow staff to make that determination and to get
back to them as soon as possible so that they know if they would
have to go through the public hearing requirement for complete
demolition of the carriage house. There is a gray area as to
extensive renovation vs. demolition and we need to review it.
Nick: I have to go along with Steve's recommendation.
Trish: We feel it doesn't require total demolition and it is
the same plan and received conceptual approval. After the
structural engineer looked at this he has said it will be an
extensive renovation and we wanted the Committee to know that.
Charlie: Could you provide eastern and southern elevations when
you do the greenhouse.
Trish: Yes.
Charles: I don't have a problem with restructuring the carriage
house provided that we're getting the original look back.
Augie: I agree as the building is in bad
them to go through the process of telling us
doing before we go ahead and say do it.
shape. I would like
exactly what you are
Trish: We will do that at final approval.
Steve: Trish, submit a letter to staff so that we can determine
whether we have to establish a public hearing pursuant to the
demolition review ordinance.
Trish: You are saying go through staff that would dictate
whether it is demolition or part of the development review.
Joe: We want to find out "do we have to do a demolition
review" because of the nature of the carriage house.
9
HPC.MINUTES. April 12, 1988
Patricia: It is between you and the staff and then it comes to
us what we are dealing with here.
Zoe: I like the carriage house plain. I don't have any
problems with what you have proposed. I don't like the arched
windows but I like the working class look.
Nick: You have enough information for the preliminary and if
you can satisfy staff with the documentation they need you can
work out whether it is demolition or not.
101 S. MILL, ELLI'S ROOFTOP EQUIP~NT
Heidi Hoffman: We have two issues here existing equipment and
Sushi Masa to propose their equipment. We are looking for
approval of what is there already but also to hear Wayne's
presentation.
Heidi: Pinion's equipment was already up on the roof at the
time of the Dec. 22 meeting.
Steve: At the point that we had received the drawing which was
to explain what had already been installed I looked at it and
felt it was not in compliance with the two options that HPC had
approved at the December meeting. Rather than the duct coming
straight in an elbow was created and I brought to the Committee
that violation or lack of compliance to ask whether the Committee
thought this was something significant to look at or something
that is very minor in nature. At that time you determined that
it should be reviewed and at the same time try to review the
restaurant equipment that was shown to be installed at a later
date. Wayne Stryker has the details for that. What we did not
review at the Dec. meeting was Pinion's equipment which goes
between B and C. In my memo I had noted that it was fairly
noticeable particularly as you are walking down on the north
side of Main St. around Country Roads restaurant it starts to be
visible only from that point. It still is a judgment call. As
far as I know that had never been approved. It was quite
specific at the time we were discussing the roof top equipment
that all the roof top equipment would need to go through the HPC
for your approval. Wayne will make his presentation of what he
will be doing with the Sushi Masa equipment. It is fairly
minimal only 37" high in places. Perhaps it could be moved in a
little and reduce the impacts as you start to pick it up from
Carl's Pharmacy and that might be preferable but I don't think it
is a problem. I also brought up the concern that HPC had
discussed as to whether screening was appropriate. As I recall
HPC had decided if we weren't going to see much more mechanical
equipment it was preferable to see mechanical equipment rather
than screening it which adds to the bulk of the structure. I
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HPC.MINUTES. April 12, 1988
would recommend to HPC that you allow the mechanical to be
visible and not add to the bulk of the structure as I think that
will effect the sense of the store front even though it is
objectionable in my opinion.
Charles:
better to
it.
I agree with Steve's recommendation that it would be
see the "honest" equipment rather than a facade around
Nick: They did move the cooler and my concern is that there is
an awful lot of equipment up on the roof. Could you do something
about the blateness of the duct work.
Heidi: We had it painted this week.
Steve: You should hear Wayne's proposal and make one motion.
Wayne Stryker: I agree with Steve's recommendation.
Steve: Could you move it in any further.
Wayne: It cannot be moved to the east but could move to the
south but the reason it is going to the west is to get the
separation between intake and exhaust.
Joe: It won't be higher than 37".
Wayne: I have been assured by the mechanical installer.
Charlie: I have a question: Why in Nov. when we asked you to
move the swamp coolers we thought we were going to have the one
swamp cooler vented directly in and altered and at that point we
asked you that we review all further mechanical equipment on the
roof then Pinions appeared on the roof.
Heidi: Pinions was already up there prior to discussion. The
Dec. 22 issue was the three swamp coolers because we assured
staff Pinion's restaurant equipment would be under the view
plain.
Steve: For the record Pinion's equipment was no something the
Planning office was aware of.
Charlie: My comments were that we asked for review of any
equipment on the roof and the reason was that there was a raised
element to the roofline that we allowed to slide through, that
inconsistency provided the problem that raises all your roof top
equipment an extra 2 feet or so.
11
HPC.MINUTES. April 12, 1988
MO~ION: Joseph made the motion to approve an amendment to the
roof top equipment plan for Elli's conditional that it not be
more than 37" and to be painted out to match the existing. Nick
second the motion. All approved. Motion carries.
Zoe stepped down.
300 W. MAIN-CONCEPTUAL DEVELOPMENT REVIEW
Scott: We put together a summary to respond to 6 items put
forth during the March 8th meeting and a summary of the
applicants design changes directed by HPC from previous meetings.
Motion 91: A. moving the massing; result, moving the massing does
not accommodate the workings of the interior, family needs and
restaurant requirements. The footprint of the addition is the
same except the employee housing has been removed. B.
Fenestration south elevation. Shed roof over ground floor, pitch
increase, as a result it decreased the exposed window area for
the second floor and complete hides the second floor porch. C.
The second level block of four windows (2 doors broken up to 2
blocks of 3 and 1 windows) result breaks up the expanse of glass.
D. Ground level; block of 4 french doors broken up to 2 french
doors bounded by 2 divided light double hung windows; result
gives impression of enclosed porch. E. Fenestration east
elevation, shed dormer over 3 true divided light double hung
windows; results shed dormer accommodates the needs of bathroom,
bedroom windows.
Motion #2: A. Study pitched roof types south elevation. Shed
roof pitch over ground level increased, result hiding completely
the balcony. B. Shed roof over 2nd level balcony is a different
pitch than the west elevation facia gable, results further breaks
up south elevation and less modern. C. 2nd level gable roof with
attic divided light window, result gives a victorian effect,
masks Elisha carriage house east fenestration, causes the
original structure to be subordinate to the addition, decreases
sun to the north neighbors and increases general massing.
D. Reconsider hip on south elevation gable; result too modern.
Motion #3: A. Decrease breakup massing on east and north
elevation. Removed employee housing; results less than 30% of
the original structure is obscured from view by the addition and
that is only on the alley and Elisha sides. Edge of flatroof N.
elevation reduced to 27 maximum span. We feel it gives the
impression that the flat roof is more of a shed attachment. B.
Facia gable north elevation over garage door; result breaks up
38' continuous wall in half. C. Use of material options: use of 4
sided log clapboard and channel lap, result further breaks up 38'
wall and massing.
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HPC.MINUTES. April 12, 1988
Motion #4: Eliminated staircase. That was eliminated at second
meeting and most likely not required by code.
Motion 95: Shake or shingle roof. The shingle roof has been
incorporated on the house for 2 or more layers in 44 years. The
current roof is tar paper and leaks due to the snow catches on
the original structure. Ice dams form unseat nails and break
seams. Further damages a shingle or composite roof. The only
logical roof is metal which resists environmental and shoveling
damage.
Motion ~6: South west corner. A. 2nd level west elevation true
divided light window; results focal point and breaks up massing
s. w. corner. B. West elevation facia gable; result focal point
and breaks up massing of s.w. corner. C. Ground level west
elevation, divided light double hung windows; result further
breaks up massing of s. w. corner. D. West elevation material
framed by facia gable, 4 sided logs, remaining wall clapboard;
results breaks up massing infers west shed roof was an add on.
E. West elevation channel lap framed by facia gable, remaining
wall clapboard; result further breaks up massing, infers west
elevation shed (flat) roof as an add on. F. West elevation all
clapboard. G. Other issues: fenestration, double hung windows
used throughout; french doors are divided light and broken up a
little bit. The glass area southern elevation remains unchanged
as it is our only sources of direct sunlight exposure. We have a
25 ft. diameter tree located directed in front of the southern
exposure limiting drastically the sunlight. The addition is set
back from the original structure. The carriage house second
level glass area remains unchanged for the same reasons as ground
level glass and for passive solar consideration but we have
reduced the glass area that can be seen.
Welton Anderson: I looked at the design from the public-right-
of-way. The Sec. of Interior guidelines for additions to
historic structures says don't try to imitate them and make it
look like it was part of the original building. Give it enough
of a difference and make it look like it can be torn away in
future years. We talked about using channel lapsiding roughly at
the same scale as the logs but not trying to duplicate the log
material. It was my understanding that the Commission was least
interested with the alley. Functionally to meet the McDonald's
requirements for living space I didn't offer any suggestions to
change the actual floor plans. On Second St. you would see that
this is a continuous wall for a very short period of time.
Bill:
D.
You are asking us to review D and staff has not reviewed
13
HPC.MINUTES. April 12, 1988
Welton:
doors.
It is similar to A and the only changes are the french
Roxanne: Is the balcony 4 ft. wide.
Scott: It is a little less than six.
Bill: So only the south elevation windows have changed.
Roxanne: What has changed on A other than the south elevation.
Welton: There are a lot of little detail changes; pulling the
roof in so that it reads like a shed.
Bill: The changes are basically in the window.
Patricia: What are the materials.
Welton: In order to compliment and not copy the logs in the
surfaces that are visible to the public right-of-way it would be
channel-lap wood siding which would be the same dimension
vertically. In the area adjacent to the carriage house and on
the alley it would be clap wood (bevelled siding). It would be
painted or stained to lessen its importance so that the gable on
the west side and the alley would dominate. I got together with
the McDonald's to refine and make the drawings read clearly for
the Board.
Roxanne: Prior Committee actions: On Feb. 9th HPC recommended
historic designation which gave conceptual development review
approval subject to the conditions that the applicant further
study and clarify massing, softening of contemporary features,
elimination of the dominant character of the porch and steps on
the south elevation. Consideration of extending the addition
further east while pulling back the addition from the south and
changing the roof pitches slightly. Also a subcommittee of HPC
will meet with the applicant to generally discuss the concepts of
compatible architectural design that should be considered. The
subcommittee did meet on Feb. 12th and HPC reviewed the revised
plans to meet the conceptual review conditions of approval on
Feb. 22 and also on March 8th. At the March 8th mtg. HPC passed
a motion to extend the period during which the applicant could
meet the conditions of conceptual approval by one month to today
with direction to the applicant to study and present revised
plans which they have done regarding fenestration, pitched roof
types, continue to study breaking up of the massing, the
elimination of the staircase on the west elevation, consider the
use of shake and shingle roofing and restudy the southwest corner
regarding the second story porch and massing. Problem
Discussion: The applicant has submitted at this point 4 plans
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HPC.MINUTES. April 12, 1988
and had submitted 3 alternative plans and when the memo was
prepared no letter had been presented to explain the reasoning
undergone to arrive at the alterations in response to the study
areas that HPC had defined. It was HPC's recommendation that
other studies be made. With the fourth plan (A prime) being
presented today we may be closer. Alternative A, the west and
north elevation have a 1/2 gable end with what we saw on the
plans to be a two foot roof overhang and face rafter mold to give
the appearance of a full gable end. The shed dormer does extend
the full width of the addition. Alternative B which was
requested is very similar to A with a truncated partial gable
end. Alternative C is the addition of the 2 1/2 story with a
north south gable end. Staff asked for additional comments from
the State of Colorado Historical Architects and I gave him copies
of the three options that we had. I haven't heard from him yet.
His basic thoughts were: The log house was a classic; a 1 1/2
story addition with a twelve twelve would be a nice transition
between the log house and the Elisha carriage house; a flat roof
was not at all fitting; in this case new should not necessarily
look so new, that compatible was really the issue and it should
be very compatible and that by the very design that it would not
be mistaken for the old which is an issue that Welton brought up.
He did feel that dormers would be OK to allow for more head room
and possibly allow them more square footage inside. The
fundamental questions in this review are: What are the specific
historic qualities of the existing log house that make it worth
preserving; Does the addition honor as well as possible those
qualities or does it substantially alter or destroy the character
of the property. Alternative A we feel is an attempt to use some
of the partial gable ends, false face rafter mold and the large
shed dormers to break up the massing of the addition. It has not
increased the height of the addition, the applicants have not
done that above the original log house and the design follows to
some extent the direction in condition #2. The south elevation
doors and windows are very nearly the same as in prior plans
which in our opinion fails to respond to conditions one and six
per HPC. The siding of the south elevation has also not changed
in response to condition #1. We do conclude that alternative A
is an interesting attempt to use the false gable roofline
detailing to break up the massing while retaining that box wrap
around effect. Unfortunately we cannot conclude that it
adequately answers all of HPC's objectives to the design
regarding the effects of the original house and the neighboring
carriage house. Alternative C doe create a true gable end and we
had asked for that. It does overshadow the original house and
it does tend to dominate the Elisha carriage house. It is 2 1/2
stories high. The applicant has not shown us a 1 1/2 story
pitched roof design which may have achieved the balance between
the use in compatible roof types.
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HPC.MINUTES. April 12, 1988
Alternatives: You could move to direct the Planning office to
draft a resolution giving conceptual approval subject to
conditions. You can move to withdraw and deny conceptual
approval, finding that the applicant has not met the conditions
of the Feb. 8th conceptual approval or the conditions of the
March 8th extension. We are impressed with the work the
applicants have done and the improvements they have made. We
believe Alternative A is the best design and alternative A prime
in my opinion is a better design however none of the alternatives
shown respond adequately to the design challenge put forth in
HPC's conditions of approval and extension. It is our
recommendation that the HPC withdraw and deny conceptual approval
for the reason that the applicant has not met the conditions.
The applicant is still eligible to reapply with a new design.
Steve: The Council decided that HPC should have the
jurisdiction to allow for encroachments and setbacks and other
things for all structures not just simply residential structures.
Based on that directive which will be incorporated in the new
code the McDonalds have not gone through the Board of Adjustment
for a variance and that can now be granted by the HPC through
your final review. The encroachment is into the 15 yard rear
setback and they would then be 5.2 ft. from that alley rear
setback line. The Committee needs to make the basic findings
which are in the code that state that it is more compatible to
have that kind of variation in requirements then it would be if
they were meeting the setbacks.
Bill: I'll open the public hearing. I'll close the public
hearing.
Bill: This is a letter dated April 12, 1988 to the HPC from
the renters of the Elisha House. To whom it may concern. We the
occupants of the Elisha house located at 320 W. Main St. support
the McDonald project currently up for approval. If you have any
question do not hesitate to call. Christine De Bartollo.
Bill: We could deal with the issues of massing, roof pitches,
south west corner porch, materials-siding and roofing and
fenestration-windows and doors.
Zoe: Stepped down.
Patricia: The windows on the second level are grouped in three
and then a single, are they staying that way.
Scott: They are situated that way due to the bathroom and
street noise.
16
HPC.MINUTES. April 12, 1988
Augie: I visited with the McDonald's last Thursday to discuss
Alternate D or A prime. From the massing standpoint the project
has come a long way on the Main St. elevation and 2nd St.
elevation. On massing I still question the box effect in the
alley of the west end. I like the roof pitch that has dormers
that lift up and the porch idea of being filled in. The only
question I have again is the back corner-the big flat roof. As
far as materials log cabins historically had numerous kinds of
materials; I have no problem with the metal roof. The
fenestration is a lot better with the windows. I question the
upper balcony on the south side I think it would be nicer to
relate more to what is down below. I have no problem with the
change in siding as long as the relative size is similar on the
two Main Street elevations that the public will see. My big
question is the north west corner of the building; is this rear
corner coming off as well as they think it will with the change
in materials, change in scale and roof pitch. The majority of
what is important in the Elisha house will still be visible from
Main St. coming from the east. There are square windows down
low boarded up on the Elisha house which I don't think are as
important but you will still see the majority of the gable end of
the building.
Charlie: The north west corner is the issue and is holding the
Committee from finding a direction.
Patricia: The north west corner is not visible from Main
Street.
Charlie: It will be hidden from the Elisha house. Possibly we
should do a straw vote concerning the corner; does the Committee
prefer the flat or a gabled roof that is higher than the
existing roof line of the original cabin. If the Committee feels
the flat roof is appropriate then we should go on to reviewing
details.
Caroline: With Planning's recommendation of a 1 1/2 gable pitch
we didn't get any floor area since we are down to 1700 sq. feet
from our first 2,000 sq. ft.
Bill: Lets address the north west corner.
Nick: I don't have any problem with the north west corner.
Bill: Does the Committee want the applicant to keep the roof as
low as possible or would they entertain a gabled roof which in
fact would be higher than the original house.
Augie: I wouldn't be opposed to a gable even if it was a two
17
HPC.MINUTES. April 12, 1988
story space if the mass of the building moved back relative to
the front face of the Elisha carriage house.
Charlie: In general would the Committee prefer that they keep
the massing like this or they try to make it perhaps more
vertical.
Joe: I like alternative C better than the flat lines. As far
as the northwest corner I have no problem with it; the main
elevations here are clearly the South and East.
Nick: I am mostly concerned with the south elevation and the
fenestration etc. have been addressed by the applicant. The
south elevation looks good. Knowing what we would see on the
west elevation it doesn't adversely effect me with a flat roof or
a pitched roof.
Patricia: I am not emotional about the north west corner. If I
had to choose a design I would choose C. You can't see it from
Main St. and either way I don't think it would overpower the
Elisha carriage house.
Charles: I like the pitched roof and it may be able to work.
Keep in mind the rating of the house and its location. It has to
be apparent what the original house and what the addition is.
The pitch might be more successful.
Bill: I feel the original structure is a very important
structure and I feel that we should not make a decision based on
that you are not going to see it. It is on Main St. and is an
important structure and I would like to see a structure that has
more integrity than something that has a flat design. I also
don't feel C is the solution. I am not seeing good proposals for
an important structure.
Charles: I am uncomfortable with the lack
something to review in conjunction with the
that these elevations have to work this way.
of a floor plan or
elevations to know
Charlie: I am not real comfortable with the proposal and I feel
you are slighting this building. One of the points that the
state points out is that the addition be compatible and not
significantly different. What I am hearing from the Board is
that 4 out of 7 aren't satisfied with the roof line.
Nick: Lets not forget all the changes they have made.
Bill: If by putting a house on here with a restaurant is
detriment to the saving of the structure then we defeat the
purpose of preservation here.
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HPC.MINUTES. April 12, 1988
Roxanne: The Committee is more interested in seeing a pitch.
Possibly you could look at alternative C and move to approve with
conditions. In our opinion alternative C is quite high and too
high. There is a transition point, a way that you could
replicate the roof pitch of the original log house because it is
an unique structure and replicate the roof pitch for the addition
to actually make that transition to the carriage house. If the
applicant cannot do that due to square footage etc. then I don't
know where else the Committee can go.
Welton: Maybe I can work with the McDonalds to change the
program spaces on the second level primarily. I did not touch
the floor plan but it is time to do that. You can either table
it or conceptually approve it with the condition that this flat
roof portion be changed. It is the flat roof area in the north
west corner that is the problem and I feel we can do something
about it.
Nick: Another concern when you start raising that flat roof
there are people that live on Bleeker St. that nobody has even
considered. That is a whole new plain.
Augie: One suggestion would be changing the floor elevation of
the addition.
Welton: The restaurant kitchen projects underneath a portion of
the livingspace above. Either you have a step in a space above
or you step down to the kitchen from the rest of the restaurant
neither of which is a wonderful solution.
Roxanne: You could extend your 30 day deadline.
Charles: I would be in favor of the extension to give them the
time to meet the requirements.
MOTION: Bill: Ail in favor of the extension.
unanimously. Motion carries.
That passes
Bill: Lets address the other issues to give them direction.
Charles: You could extend it and table it until the next
meeting.
Bill: I would need a motion to extend and in that motion give
them input on the materials; porch on south west corner;
fenestration or address it at the next meeting.
Charles: Possibly extending it
from before and leave it open as
those issues may change.
carrying over the same items
they work with Welton. Some of
19
HPC.MINUTES. April 12, 1988
MOTION: Charles made the motion to extend the conditions to the
conceptual review of 300 W. Main to the 26th of April. Nick
second the motion. All approved. Motion carries.
Scott: I've got the idea that you want a pitch in the southwest
corner to get rid of the flat roof.
Bill: They want a pitched roof.
Charlie: Are you to your maximum FAR.
Scott: We aren't close to it.
Charlie: You might even now move your eastern facade on the
addition further east and you might be able to accommodate the
Board and move the southern one back a couple of feet. You have
more room there now. It may be the shapes of the rooms.
Bill: We need to extend the public hearing until the next time.
Bill: Technically I will reopen the public hearing and extend
it to April 26th.
212 W. HOPKINS AVE.
Bill: We have now moved our quarters to the 2nd floor conference
room.
Bill: 212 W. Hopkins for historic landmark designation
Charles stepped down.
Jan Deirington, architect: The house is a good example of a
miners cottage in the late 1800's. The street facade is about
all you see of the house. It is a one story building and the
addition was put on in 1974. The addition does not compete with
the house as it is at the rear of the house. The addition that
we are proposing will be to the west and would link the two very
well. We believe the addition will enhance the rating of the
house. It was given a #4 rating. In order to get the historic
designation we have incentive and one is we wouldn't have to cut
down several cottonwood trees in the front of the property in
order to provide parking which is required by the code which is
one space per bedroom. We would only have parking spaces in the
rear and the garage. The other incentive is we are trying to get
a variance on the alley sestback because we are trying to keep
the addition as far back in the rear of the property as possible.
The lot is 6,000 sq. ft.
20
HPC.MINUTES. April 12, 1988
Charlie: You are requesting an encroachment to the rear and
elimination of a parking space.
Jan: With the addition of one bedroom we would have four
bedroom so we would need two parking spaces.
Roxanne: We are looking at designation and you have a partial
demolition of the one story leanto shed. The applicants next
step is to be reviewed by the P&Z Commission to obtain
recommendation for historic designation and then City Council
would hold first and second meetings of that. Since you are
requesting partial demolition your applicantion must meet
standards in section 24-9.5 four through six. For designation
standards it is staffs opinion that the property should be
designated, that it does reflect an architectural style that is
significant in Aspen's history. We feel that the west duration
of the front porch would merit designation. With the addition to
the back and changes made to the 1974 addition that it probably
does help the character of the house somewhat. We are concerned
that the height of the addition might be overwhelming however the
landscaping do shield that from the street. We feel that this
home has special features of a miner's cottage that include a
front gable with a projecting bay window and cut shingles and
horizontal clapboard siding. The windows are tradition long
double hung. Are recommendation is for approval for historic
designation.
Bill: Any questions or clarifications at this time.
Charlie: Are you planning to leave the addition on the back.
Jan: The 1974 addition is not being changed from the street
side at all. From the alley side we would be filling in the
second level; what was a little carriage house.
Bill: Does the Committee feel that the four standards for
historic designation have been met as outlined in the memo of the
Planning staff.
Nick: I concur.
Bill: I'll entertain a motion to approve landmark designation
with the condition that the front porch be restored.
MO~ION: Nick I so move to approve landmark designation with te
condition that the front porch be restored. Joseph second the
motion. All favored the motion. Motion carries.
Jan: On the front porch on the floor plan they just enclosed
the porch and put a stud wall with clapboard siding to match the
21
HPC.MINUTES. April 12, 1988
rest of the house behind the existing porch railing and
ornamentation. That serves as is a windbreak type vestibule for
entering into the house. They would prefer to keep that.
Bill: I've seen good examples of enclosed porches when they are
more transparent and in this particular case I could support the
motion if it was restored with a little more transparency. What
coems to mind is Adam Waltons on Hopkins and Spring, his is very
transparent and still gives the feeling of a porch and it allows
it to act as an air lock in this climate.
Roxanne: Staff would support that. Staff is mostly concerned
about getting removed the tapped on detailing and the balister
look.
Bill: The motion allows the applicant that leway. Look at
making it more transparent.
SPECIAL BUSINESS
Roxanne: The preservations awards are beginning to come in and
we had a newspaper article last week. We will go to Council to
request $500 to fund plaques. The Historical Society, The
Community Church and the ARA are interested in working with us.
There will be a walking tour on Mothers Day in the west end
including a reception at the Community Church. A proclamation
draft has been given to the Mayor. There has been a press
release on the guidelines and they cost $10. each.
Augie: Architects and attorney's should be informed also.
Joseph: I can get you the list of attorneys.
kjs
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