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HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.hpc.19871027BIS~ORIC PRESERVATION CO~I~"~EE Minutes Regular Meeting City Council Chambers, City Hall October 27, 1987 2:30 p.m. Meeting was called to order by chairman Georgeann Waggaman with Patricia O'Bryan, Charles Cunniffe, Zoe Compton and Charlie Knight present. Nick Pasquarella, Augie Reno and Bill Poss were excused. MOTION: Charlie made the motion to approve the September 22 minutes. Patricia second the motion. Motion carries. STAFF COM~EN~S Steve: City Council passed ordinance #42 which is the historic preservation incentives. The guidelines in the 8 1/2 format have been distributed to City Council and Council has set a work- session Wednesday November 18th from 5:00 to 7:00 and they would like all the HPC members to come. I also wanted to update HPC on Elli's. A few things have happened since the last meeting which was September 22 with regard to asbestos sheathing that was found underneath one of the walls. As a result a proposal was made by John Cottle to remove the asbestos sheathing. Before we gave the applicant approval, the applicant stated that they found that they did not have to remove the asbestos and were not going to. Then apparently there was some misunderstanding and the sheathing was removed and was replaced by plywood. While it is upsetting that they have done that I don't think it is a real problem and they have followed closely what they were able to do and were careful not to damage too much material. John Cottle: The owner was concerned about health and liability problems leaving the asbestos in the building. The state had felt that kind of asbestos in that form was acceptable and posed no safety concerns. The owner then decided to leave the asbestos and not remove it but we will wait for a confirmation letter from the state. The contractor misinterpreted that and took the boards off and removed the asbestos. It was taken off and is now back intact and I feel it is an acceptable job. The intention was to leave it as is. Georgeann: Did they have to replace any of the boards? John: The boards that are chipped or split will be repaired and left intact. The boards that are to be replaced will be identif- ied and marked at a meeting on the site with Steve. The walls will be power washed to take the chips of paint off. The walls then Will be repaired, reprimed and repainted. A copy of that letter will be given to Steve. HPC Minutes October 27, 1987 Georgeann: Did you all arrive at the original color? John: The color that is on the building is not Herbert Bayer blue. Bayer blue is a little darker. We want to paint it the original color Herbert Bayer blue with a little grey mixed in with it to average the color that is on the building now. Georgeann: existing. The perception of anyone seeing it will be as it is John: It is Elli's blue formula mixed with gray. Four parts of the blue with one part of gray. Steve: of paint you what I talked to Elli Iselin and she it had and if you contact here it was. remembers the exact type she will be glad to tell John: We also have been in contact with Roger Moyer and he says he has the exact formula. PUBLIC COMMENT Jesse Graber: I have a minor presentation and I would ask the Committee to put me on the agenda. MOTION: Patricia made the motion to add Jesse to the agenda. Charlie second the motion. Motion carries. Alan Richman: At out budget hearing Council approved an additional 1/2 time person for 20 hrs. a week to do historic preservation. We will use the grant from the state historical society to fund almost half of the salary around $6200. The City will more than match that amount and we are looking to hiring someone around the first of the year. There will be no other work assignments except historic preservation. We will look at people state wide and if any of the HPC members knows of someone please contact the Planning Office. Su'l-l~N RESIDENCE DEMOLITION OF GARAGE Larry McKenzie, architect for Bill Poss Architects: We would like to take down the existing garage and build a new one. The doors will be in a different location and there is one on each side to facilitate coming out of the house. The existing garage is 12'6" wide and the length is 24' 4" and the new diagram length is 24 feet. The height of the new garage will be 2'3" higher from 13"6 to 15'9" which is what is proposed. The added height will give the garage a more victorian flavor. The house has cut shingles on the ends of the gables and we would like to do that 2 HPC Minutes October 27, 1987 also to the garage. We would repeat the trim details that are on the existing house. Charlie: What is the west elevation, is that a trellis? Larry: Yes. There was a landscape plan done and originally there was a planter. The existing garage sits off the property about a foot in each direction of that property corner and when we reconstruct we would like to pull it back onto the property. When we did that we had to eliminate the planter and the owners would like to have a trellis there and have something growing that is green. Steve: This application is facilitated by the new ordinance that allows for HPC to allow for variations in setbacks without going to the board of adjustment and the criteria by which HPC can grant that kind of variation is in section 10 of ord ~42: In cases where proposed development would extend into front yard, side yard and rear yard setbacks (this would extend into the rear yard) extend into the minimum distance between principle and accessory building and exceed the allowed floor area, HPC shall find that such variation from the underlying area and bulk requirements is more compatible in character with the historic landmark than would be the development in accord with the area and bulk requirements. If they were to put it honoring the rear yard setbacks they would have to be five feet from the rear property line and five feet from the side yard. At this point it would basically be on those two property lines and would not extend or encroach into the alley. I think HPC can make those finding as you can see from the site plan it is a rather large house and the back yard is very small and if you were to recon- figure the garage I think it would affect some of the views of that structure. I feel there is reason to grant approval. Georgeann: I would think also this is historically more correct than the existing. Steve: To some extent but I don't think it is an historic garage, it is not a carriage house. If it were possible to accommodate it that it goes off the alley from a functional point of view that is preferable but yet I can see from the applicants point of view it might actually work better for the site where it is. Charles: How does it work from the side, does it just come in off of Aspen Street? Larry: Yes, there is a 20 foot setback from the property line and barely room for one parking space in front of the garage. 3 HPC Minutes October 27, 1987 Georgeann: I'm not unhappy with it, the owner has showed a certain modesty rather than trying to get a three car garage back there. MOTION: Charles made the motion to approve the Sutton garage renovation as submitted by Larry McKenzie. Charlie second. All favored. Motion carries. PRE-APPLICATION BERKO BUILDING Georgeann: Charles Cunniffe has requested that we table this item as his client wants to be present when we have the pre- application discussion. BOOTSIE/LACY B Jesse Graber: I'm here on behalf of a retail store that is going into Molterer Sports area at 520 East Cooper next door to Eastern Winds. Molterer is semi-retiring and the store will be called Bootsie and Lacy-B. Molterer will still carry a line of clothes in there. On the existing view front toward the street on the right hand side we have three windows in equal config- uration and on the left hand side we have two windows of equal configuration. On the proposed change we would like to equal out the center mullion so that there is an equal distribution of the window space across. Charlie: Is it merely cosmetic? Jesse: Yes, it is not structural. Georgeann: Are you changing any materials? Jesse: No, it is a white stucco. They want the windows so that there are two on each side and one in the middle. Charlie: Are you making the center window narrower? Jesse: Yes the center window will be narrower. Charles: I know what you are doing here but the problem I have with this kind of presentation is it doesn't address the whole building. This building, being the building that it is, I don't see it a problem. Normally I would say there is not enough to review because the building right above is the blue printers and there are two windows and a door and a gap and two more windows. The existing before the mullion change actually lines up archi- tecturally the way that buildings works and what you are showing here is a change that is no longer in harmony with the second floor, changing one floor without thinking of what happens up 4 HPC Minutes October 27, 1987 above. I don't see it as a negative on that building. But using this as an example we can't really make a decision with an item like this unless we see how it effects the whole building. Georgeann: In the case of this building we have a eight foot balcony right above it. You are also saying this doesn't bother you in this case. Charles: In this case it doesn't bother me but in other cases I think it would be something that we would be remiss not to look for. Georgeann: I go along with Charles that I don't think it is significant here but I do think what is significant Jesse is the materials and that the mullions, the trim around the windows and everything be identical to what is already on the existing building. Jesse: It will be the same except that there will be a wider stucco in that one area, the middle window. MOTION: Patricia made the motion to approve 520 E. Cooper change as presented. Charles second. All favored. Motion carries. Georgeann: When we allow a change for a new owner who may or may not be in there any period of time and then they go on and there is another change, thinking about what Charles said we can really get this thing way out of sight. Charles: I remember on the Aspen Grove building and we appealed for a change for the awning over the Rod and Gun Co. and a condition was put on it by Bill Drueding and HPC that the awning had to be acceptable to the owner of the building as a format for the rest of the awnings on the building. One of the other shops came in and they had a totally different awning. They came in totally out of context with just their store front not relating to the rest of the building. Then someone else came in and that building started to have five or six different kinds of awnings on it after it had been agreed that the building would have one kind of awning. They finally brought it into conformity but this is another example. Charlie: Even when we have had time to deal with the items in our packet and they don't have enough information in them you are going to find that we are going to have to table the item and not deal with it. When we don't get enough input it puts a burden on us to make decisions without all the various information. HPC Minutes October 27, 1987 Jesse: I understand but normally it is not my job to present architectural changes. Georgeann: One thing we are trying to tell everybody is bring polaroid pictures as they really help us see things. CO[glI~'~l~l~ MEMBER COMIqEI~S Patricia: We have discussed this before and I walk by everyday and the dumpster is practically on the sidewalk by the Popcorn wagon. It has been fifteen months since they have opened. Georgeann: Why can't they put a fence around that dumpster? Steve: They have a bond. Do you remember HPC approved a small area around the Popcorn Wagon and Dan Arrow wants to construct that first. HPC said if you bond that you will do the dumpster enclosure within a certain period of time which I believe is December. Bill Drueding: It will be constructed when the commissary is done and the bond was $1000. Steve: I would suggest that HPC consider item B even though Dan McIntyre isn't present because it is so minor. SBIRT STOP REPLACEMENT OF DOORS Steve: It is my understand that he wants to make the existing front windows into a usable front entrance. So he wants a double door. Patricia: What about the arches, are they still going to be there? Steve: There will be no effect on that, it would be simply to change affixed windows to a door. Charles: top. That horizontal mullion is the same height as the door Patricia: We did that to the store next door. Steve: That gave him the idea. Georgeann: Does he have to take out that brick curb underneath it? Steve: No, I don't think so as he will use that as a stepup. From what he is saying the frame would be exactly the same. HPC Minutes October 27, 1987 Patricia: here. I can't imagine approving something when they aren't Georgeann: Steve is saying that he could have signed off on it without HPC looking at it. Charlie: The materials have to match and I think it should be a full length door and match. MO~ION: Charles made the motion to approve the new double door arrangement at the Shirt Stop on the Hyman mall with the provi- sion that the door stays the same height as the present door so that there is not a transom above it, its a full height door. That the brick band along the base as in the present single door configuration also remain in place and the materials match. It would be the same bronze as the bronze mullions on the rest of the building. Patricia second the motion. All favored. Motion carries. S~AFF AND CO~9~I~'~EE CO~lf~S Charlie: In referencing the Isis proposal the idea of canopies across the sidewalk kind of like the La. effect is inappropriate. Steve: You think the shape is inappropriate? Charlie: I'm not sure I like the shape. We have one down the street that goes into the restaurant. The awning functions for the clientele of the Cantina and it is a large establishment. Charles: I don't think it is a negative it is part of the character of a commercial core of a town. Charlie: They are presenting two different awnings: a short one and one that goes all the way over the sidewalk. Charles: The short one is more appropriate. Patricia: I like the short one better also. Charlie: The awning across the sidewalk is inappropriate. Steve: The general guidelines on awnings is that they are functional and that the materials be compatible with the rest of the historic district and that they are not so large that they take away from the architecture. I don't think that the large awning meets that criteria. Georgeann: I go along with the smaller awning. 7 HPC Minutes October 27, 1987 Charles: It is actually more of a sign than a canopy. Georgeann: DO they need that awning for a sun screen? Charlie: It canopies his front door and I don't think it is inappropriate to accent that building. Charles: Look at the Brand store front and it adds to the Building awnings are over every character of the building. Charlie: What officers do we have? Georgeann: We have a chairman and a vice-chairman. Not all the members are here, therefore, do we want to have elections? Georgeann: I think I would be willing to take the job one more time. I'd like to recommend Bill Poss for vice-chairman. Patricia: Why not Bill for chairman and Georgeann for vice- chairman. Georgeann: We could but Bill isn't here. Charlie: Why don't we put it off until the next meeting. I'm not interested and Bill has done an outstanding job when you have not been here and we should ask him when he is present if he is interested or not. Patricia: I think he has expressed an interest but we should hear it from Bill. Georgeann: Then we will table the election of officers until the next meeting. Meeting adjourned at 4:00 Kathleen J. Strickland Deputy City Clerk 8