HomeMy WebLinkAboutminutes.hpc.19871027BIS~ORIC PRESERVATION CO~I~"~EE
Minutes
Regular Meeting
City Council Chambers, City Hall
October 27, 1987 2:30 p.m.
Meeting was called to order by chairman Georgeann Waggaman with
Patricia O'Bryan, Charles Cunniffe, Zoe Compton and Charlie
Knight present. Nick Pasquarella, Augie Reno and Bill Poss were
excused.
MOTION: Charlie made the motion to approve the September 22
minutes. Patricia second the motion. Motion carries.
STAFF COM~EN~S
Steve: City Council passed ordinance #42 which is the historic
preservation incentives. The guidelines in the 8 1/2 format have
been distributed to City Council and Council has set a work-
session Wednesday November 18th from 5:00 to 7:00 and they would
like all the HPC members to come.
I also wanted to update HPC on Elli's. A few things have
happened since the last meeting which was September 22 with
regard to asbestos sheathing that was found underneath one of the
walls. As a result a proposal was made by John Cottle to remove
the asbestos sheathing. Before we gave the applicant approval,
the applicant stated that they found that they did not have to
remove the asbestos and were not going to. Then apparently there
was some misunderstanding and the sheathing was removed and was
replaced by plywood. While it is upsetting that they have done
that I don't think it is a real problem and they have followed
closely what they were able to do and were careful not to damage
too much material.
John Cottle: The owner was concerned about health and liability
problems leaving the asbestos in the building. The state had
felt that kind of asbestos in that form was acceptable and posed
no safety concerns. The owner then decided to leave the asbestos
and not remove it but we will wait for a confirmation letter from
the state. The contractor misinterpreted that and took the
boards off and removed the asbestos. It was taken off and is now
back intact and I feel it is an acceptable job. The intention
was to leave it as is.
Georgeann: Did they have to replace any of the boards?
John: The boards that are chipped or split will be repaired and
left intact. The boards that are to be replaced will be identif-
ied and marked at a meeting on the site with Steve. The walls
will be power washed to take the chips of paint off. The walls
then Will be repaired, reprimed and repainted. A copy of that
letter will be given to Steve.
HPC Minutes October 27, 1987
Georgeann: Did you all arrive at the original color?
John: The color that is on the building is not Herbert Bayer
blue. Bayer blue is a little darker. We want to paint it the
original color Herbert Bayer blue with a little grey mixed in
with it to average the color that is on the building now.
Georgeann:
existing.
The perception of anyone seeing it will be as it is
John: It is Elli's blue formula mixed with gray. Four parts of
the blue with one part of gray.
Steve:
of paint
you what
I talked to Elli Iselin and she
it had and if you contact here
it was.
remembers the exact type
she will be glad to tell
John: We also have been in contact with Roger Moyer and he says
he has the exact formula.
PUBLIC COMMENT
Jesse Graber: I have a minor presentation and I would ask the
Committee to put me on the agenda.
MOTION: Patricia made the motion to add Jesse to the agenda.
Charlie second the motion. Motion carries.
Alan Richman: At out budget hearing Council approved an
additional 1/2 time person for 20 hrs. a week to do historic
preservation. We will use the grant from the state historical
society to fund almost half of the salary around $6200. The City
will more than match that amount and we are looking to hiring
someone around the first of the year. There will be no other
work assignments except historic preservation. We will look at
people state wide and if any of the HPC members knows of someone
please contact the Planning Office.
Su'l-l~N RESIDENCE DEMOLITION OF GARAGE
Larry McKenzie, architect for Bill Poss Architects: We would
like to take down the existing garage and build a new one. The
doors will be in a different location and there is one on each
side to facilitate coming out of the house. The existing garage
is 12'6" wide and the length is 24' 4" and the new diagram length
is 24 feet. The height of the new garage will be 2'3" higher
from 13"6 to 15'9" which is what is proposed. The added height
will give the garage a more victorian flavor. The house has cut
shingles on the ends of the gables and we would like to do that
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HPC Minutes October 27, 1987
also to the garage. We would repeat the trim details that are on
the existing house.
Charlie: What is the west elevation, is that a trellis?
Larry: Yes. There was a landscape plan done and originally
there was a planter. The existing garage sits off the property
about a foot in each direction of that property corner and when
we reconstruct we would like to pull it back onto the property.
When we did that we had to eliminate the planter and the owners
would like to have a trellis there and have something growing
that is green.
Steve: This application is facilitated by the new ordinance
that allows for HPC to allow for variations in setbacks without
going to the board of adjustment and the criteria by which HPC
can grant that kind of variation is in section 10 of ord ~42: In
cases where proposed development would extend into front yard,
side yard and rear yard setbacks (this would extend into the rear
yard) extend into the minimum distance between principle and
accessory building and exceed the allowed floor area, HPC shall
find that such variation from the underlying area and bulk
requirements is more compatible in character with the historic
landmark than would be the development in accord with the area
and bulk requirements. If they were to put it honoring the rear
yard setbacks they would have to be five feet from the rear
property line and five feet from the side yard. At this point it
would basically be on those two property lines and would not
extend or encroach into the alley. I think HPC can make those
finding as you can see from the site plan it is a rather large
house and the back yard is very small and if you were to recon-
figure the garage I think it would affect some of the views of
that structure. I feel there is reason to grant approval.
Georgeann: I would think also this is historically more correct
than the existing.
Steve: To some extent but I don't think it is an historic
garage, it is not a carriage house. If it were possible to
accommodate it that it goes off the alley from a functional point
of view that is preferable but yet I can see from the applicants
point of view it might actually work better for the site where it
is.
Charles: How does it work from the side, does it just come in
off of Aspen Street?
Larry: Yes, there is a 20 foot setback from the property line
and barely room for one parking space in front of the garage.
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HPC Minutes October 27, 1987
Georgeann: I'm not unhappy with it, the owner has showed a
certain modesty rather than trying to get a three car garage back
there.
MOTION: Charles made the motion to approve the Sutton garage
renovation as submitted by Larry McKenzie. Charlie second. All
favored. Motion carries.
PRE-APPLICATION BERKO BUILDING
Georgeann: Charles Cunniffe has requested that we table this
item as his client wants to be present when we have the pre-
application discussion.
BOOTSIE/LACY B
Jesse Graber: I'm here on behalf of a retail store that is
going into Molterer Sports area at 520 East Cooper next door to
Eastern Winds. Molterer is semi-retiring and the store will be
called Bootsie and Lacy-B. Molterer will still carry a line of
clothes in there. On the existing view front toward the street
on the right hand side we have three windows in equal config-
uration and on the left hand side we have two windows of equal
configuration. On the proposed change we would like to equal out
the center mullion so that there is an equal distribution of the
window space across.
Charlie: Is it merely cosmetic?
Jesse: Yes, it is not structural.
Georgeann: Are you changing any materials?
Jesse: No, it is a white stucco. They want the windows so that
there are two on each side and one in the middle.
Charlie: Are you making the center window narrower?
Jesse: Yes the center window will be narrower.
Charles: I know what you are doing here but the problem I have
with this kind of presentation is it doesn't address the whole
building. This building, being the building that it is, I don't
see it a problem. Normally I would say there is not enough to
review because the building right above is the blue printers and
there are two windows and a door and a gap and two more windows.
The existing before the mullion change actually lines up archi-
tecturally the way that buildings works and what you are showing
here is a change that is no longer in harmony with the second
floor, changing one floor without thinking of what happens up
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HPC Minutes October 27, 1987
above. I don't see it as a negative on that building. But using
this as an example we can't really make a decision with an item
like this unless we see how it effects the whole building.
Georgeann: In the case of this building we have a eight foot
balcony right above it. You are also saying this doesn't bother
you in this case.
Charles: In this case it doesn't bother me but in other cases I
think it would be something that we would be remiss not to look
for.
Georgeann: I go along with Charles that I don't think it is
significant here but I do think what is significant Jesse is the
materials and that the mullions, the trim around the windows and
everything be identical to what is already on the existing
building.
Jesse: It will be the same except that there will be a wider
stucco in that one area, the middle window.
MOTION: Patricia made the motion to approve 520 E. Cooper
change as presented. Charles second. All favored. Motion
carries.
Georgeann: When we allow a change for a new owner who may or
may not be in there any period of time and then they go on and
there is another change, thinking about what Charles said we can
really get this thing way out of sight.
Charles: I remember on the Aspen Grove building and we appealed
for a change for the awning over the Rod and Gun Co. and a
condition was put on it by Bill Drueding and HPC that the awning
had to be acceptable to the owner of the building as a format for
the rest of the awnings on the building. One of the other shops
came in and they had a totally different awning. They came in
totally out of context with just their store front not relating
to the rest of the building. Then someone else came in and that
building started to have five or six different kinds of awnings
on it after it had been agreed that the building would have one
kind of awning. They finally brought it into conformity but this
is another example.
Charlie: Even when we have had time to deal with the items in
our packet and they don't have enough information in them you are
going to find that we are going to have to table the item and not
deal with it. When we don't get enough input it puts a burden on
us to make decisions without all the various information.
HPC Minutes October 27, 1987
Jesse: I understand but normally it is not my job to present
architectural changes.
Georgeann: One thing we are trying to tell everybody is bring
polaroid pictures as they really help us see things.
CO[glI~'~l~l~ MEMBER COMIqEI~S
Patricia: We have discussed this before and I walk by everyday
and the dumpster is practically on the sidewalk by the Popcorn
wagon. It has been fifteen months since they have opened.
Georgeann: Why can't they put a fence around that dumpster?
Steve: They have a bond. Do you remember HPC approved a small
area around the Popcorn Wagon and Dan Arrow wants to construct
that first. HPC said if you bond that you will do the dumpster
enclosure within a certain period of time which I believe is
December.
Bill Drueding: It will be constructed when the commissary is
done and the bond was $1000.
Steve: I would suggest that HPC consider item B even though Dan
McIntyre isn't present because it is so minor.
SBIRT STOP REPLACEMENT OF DOORS
Steve: It is my understand that he wants to make the existing
front windows into a usable front entrance. So he wants a double
door.
Patricia: What about the arches, are they still going to be
there?
Steve: There will be no effect on that, it would be simply to
change affixed windows to a door.
Charles:
top.
That horizontal mullion is the same height as the door
Patricia: We did that to the store next door.
Steve: That gave him the idea.
Georgeann: Does he have to take out that brick curb underneath
it?
Steve: No, I don't think so as he will use that as a stepup.
From what he is saying the frame would be exactly the same.
HPC Minutes October 27, 1987
Patricia:
here.
I can't imagine approving something when they aren't
Georgeann: Steve is saying that he could have signed off on it
without HPC looking at it.
Charlie: The materials have to match and I think it should be a
full length door and match.
MO~ION: Charles made the motion to approve the new double door
arrangement at the Shirt Stop on the Hyman mall with the provi-
sion that the door stays the same height as the present door so
that there is not a transom above it, its a full height door.
That the brick band along the base as in the present single door
configuration also remain in place and the materials match. It
would be the same bronze as the bronze mullions on the rest of
the building. Patricia second the motion. All favored. Motion
carries.
S~AFF AND CO~9~I~'~EE CO~lf~S
Charlie: In referencing the Isis proposal the idea of canopies
across the sidewalk kind of like the La. effect is inappropriate.
Steve: You think the shape is inappropriate?
Charlie: I'm not sure I like the shape. We have one down the
street that goes into the restaurant. The awning functions for
the clientele of the Cantina and it is a large establishment.
Charles: I don't think it is a negative it is part of the
character of a commercial core of a town.
Charlie: They are presenting two different awnings: a short one
and one that goes all the way over the sidewalk.
Charles: The short one is more appropriate.
Patricia: I like the short one better also.
Charlie: The awning across the sidewalk is inappropriate.
Steve: The general guidelines on awnings is that they are
functional and that the materials be compatible with the rest of
the historic district and that they are not so large that they
take away from the architecture. I don't think that the large
awning meets that criteria.
Georgeann: I go along with the smaller awning.
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HPC Minutes October 27, 1987
Charles: It is actually more of a sign than a canopy.
Georgeann: DO they need that awning for a sun screen?
Charlie: It canopies his front door and I don't think it is
inappropriate to accent that building.
Charles: Look at the Brand
store front and it adds to the
Building awnings are over every
character of the building.
Charlie: What officers do we have?
Georgeann: We have a chairman and a vice-chairman. Not all the
members are here, therefore, do we want to have elections?
Georgeann: I think I would be willing to take the job one more
time. I'd like to recommend Bill Poss for vice-chairman.
Patricia: Why not Bill for chairman and Georgeann for vice-
chairman.
Georgeann: We could but Bill isn't here.
Charlie: Why don't we put it off until the next meeting. I'm
not interested and Bill has done an outstanding job when you have
not been here and we should ask him when he is present if he is
interested or not.
Patricia: I think he has expressed an interest but we should
hear it from Bill.
Georgeann: Then we will table the election of officers until
the next meeting.
Meeting adjourned at 4:00
Kathleen J. Strickland
Deputy City Clerk
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